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Author Topic: Maybe it's us... really us  (Read 452 times)
Zack

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« on: May 04, 2013, 08:44:54 AM »

Hi family from England... .  it's Saturday 4th of May, 14:15 hrs ish... .  I've often wondered the time and place of people on this site... .  my mind I guess.

I've been thinking... .  are we here on this site because we think to much? we're trying to make rational sense of all that is not rational? I don't know why the sun shines but it does, I don't know why when when someone yawns I yawn to. I didn't know why when my exPBD did something awful I said okay, don't worry... .  it'll be fine... .   

I've struggled with the traits of BwBPD... .  we all have... .  we searched then internet trying to find an answer. We're blessed we found bpdfamily... .  (thank you... . well done for all the hard work and understanding... . it takes time and energy, I know that for sure) I am certainly blessed, but why did we search? Why did we search google for the traits, the oddness of a relationship.

Maybe we are damaged. It's us... .  it really is us. We have have met someone who is damaged... .  they treat us appallingly, wreck our lives, ruin our lives... .  but sat they love us.

My exBPD fiancee showed so many flags. My mind said RUN, my family and friends said RUN, as fast as you can... .  she has taken your life.

My point is... .  it's US... .  we are wrong... . don't blame the BPD for having a disorder... .  look at ourselves and ask why?       

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Zack

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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 09:07:43 AM »

My point being... .  why do we get 'stuck?' in a website about other peoples illnesses. We all know the awfulness of it all, why can't I or others move on?... .  we all no the hurt.
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 09:23:12 AM »

I think I might have the answer to your question.  It's VALIDATION!  How can someone you love treat you so awful?  Push-Pull-  I love you... .  I love you not!  The sun... .  yeah but you learned about that in school... .  science class.  BPD is best understood with all the input you can gather... . My input... . RUN and Don't look back!  They are very mentally ill people.
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 09:46:13 AM »

I got completely caught up in wanting to know why he behaved so poorly.  For five years, I was completely befuddled by him. I just didn't understand why he was so "difficult."  Then... .  I heard about BPD and found this place. The floodgates opened for me.  It was clear something was severely wrong with him, but I felt like I was "off" too because I kept putting up with his crap.  AND... .  in reality... .  I WAS!

I've come a very long way in the last eleven years.  I now see MY part.  I now see what I did to participate in such a violent, horrific dance.  I don't blame myself because at the time, I was ignorant.  I had NO CLUE what I was dealing with.  Once I discovered this place, things started to fall into place about HIM.  And I slowly started to look at myself.  I believe this process about looking at myself was so slow because his "offenses" were so LARGE that it was way easier to look at HIM and his crapola.  It doesn't change his offenses.  They are all very real and very destructive.

HOWEVER... .  what I ultimately had to question (many years later,) was WHY, after the very first incident, did I hang around for incident #2, 3, 4, etc?  WHY did I allow another person to consume so much of me?  

Those were hard questions for me to answer and I spent a lot of my time working on ME because I am the only person I can/should work on.  I learned that MY core wound fed right into the whole sordid mess.  AND... .  my core wound is something that - even though I've identified it -- it runs deep -- and those patterns die VERY slowly.  

Even after all the work I've done on MYSELF, I still have the tendency to make poor choices when it comes to intimate relationships.  I've gotten much, much better about this... .  but it still something I struggle with.

As you read more around here, you'll see thread after thread pop up about how a poster has gotten involved with yet another borderline or another horribly dysfunctional person.  THIS is why we come here.  So, you are right --- it IS us.  And this place, combined with other things like therapy, or books, or whatever methods you choose, is part of helping US recover from OUR wounds.  Many of us arrive here because we are horribly confused about the behaviors of another... .  then... .  we soon see (or we should soon see,) that this becomes way more about US than the pwBPD.

There are others who come here because they will ALWAYS have to deal with a pwBPD in their world.  For instance... .  co-parenting with a pwBPD can be a hellish experience and others here that are experiencing the same thing can be of great support.

Same with family members.  If you had a child or a parent with BPD, this place would provide the support that you would be unable to find anywhere else (I truly believe this.)

The people that befuddle me the most are the people who are not married to their BPD, they don't have kids, they don't own property together, etc.  The "ties" are relatively few.  These are the people who seem to struggle the most with letting go.  And... .  I was in that category!  Of all the people here, it should be the easiest for US to let go and move on.  Yet... .  it isn't.

So Zack... .  now it begins.  This is about YOU.  You say you're having trouble moving on.  What can you do to help yourself detach and move on with your life?

turtle

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LoveNotWar
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 09:47:20 AM »

Zack,

I believe a relationship with a BPD, for many, can be a traumatic experience because of the verbal, and for some, physical abuse. 

It's not like detaching from a "normal" relationship.  Trauma hurts us in many ways and by coming to this site we are just trying to make sense of the mess and find some healing. It's a comfort to hear from other folks who experienced the same thing.

And there's some cognitive dissonance when you split w/a BPD. How could it have been SO good then gone SO bad? You want the good back!. By comparing stories with others we are just coming to terms with an experience we can't understand.

Plus... .  as humans we are social... .  and we want connect with other humans  who've had similar experiences. A r/s with a BPD is one of those things where if you haven't lived it you just can't understand it. Most folks think "hey just suck it up  and move on... .  we've all been through break ups."
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laelle
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 09:49:40 AM »

I am proud to say that I am not "stuck" anymore.  I have come to terms with what happened. I realize the relationship is a futile effort. I realize that I played a part in that relationship.  I am finishing up the grieving process.  I took a huge jump the other day... .  I looked the illness square in the eye.  Its harsh, but its necessary.

If you want to let go, realize that they are emotional children.  They cant give you what you need because they are not capable.  All the crazy making is their

incomplete defense system trying to keep them regulated.  They are boiling over with pain, and the only way to relieve it is to dump it on you.

Once they have dumped it on you, you become bad because they have black /white thinking and you have their "scum" they cant process all over you.

Its more complex than that but the bottom line is that you will never be good enough because you will always end up bad.  

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Surnia
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2013, 09:59:20 AM »

Zack

very important questions!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

And I think for each one of us little different.

Some of us, like me, are/were too rational and not really trusting  our feelings. Others with low self esteem and easy to blame for everything. We are knights in shining armor or perhaps people pleaser.

All this is not an excuse for abusive rs. But it can make that we stay too long or that we get stucked for detaching... .  
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 10:11:01 AM »

My r/s was relatively short-term but very destructive. Maybe that means I had decent boundaries. Who's to say how it would have played out? Communication hasn't been productive since the official b/u. But certainly the best thing to do is to focus on ourselves and detach from the crazy-making. Guilt and obligation was my hook. This poor girl who everyone had mistreated. Unfortunately the truth is she is mentally ill and doesn't have the same grasp on reality. At best a sad love story, but we must move on.
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 10:12:25 AM »

It's an interesting question... .  and I think of it too.

It's empowering for it to be 'us' actually as it takes us out of the role of victim.

It's not simply us though... . It's complex. We all have hurt damage and pain of just going through being born and normal 'trauma' that is part of growing up.

The BPD relationship and all relationship can bring up primal feelings and press the 'crazy' buttons in us.

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 10:26:56 AM »

Zack,


There are lots of reasons.

And remember, too, that the Leaving board is just one part of a much larger site. There are also those who are trying to make things work... .  There could be marriage involved, kids involved, family member involved, etc.


For me, although she is no longer part of my life thanks to both parties, it was still a very traumatic experience. Nothing like I've ever been through before. Had a very profound impact on me, shook me to my core. Very bizarre.

I've also noticed that I have tendencies to attract/be attracted to pwBPD (suspected or diagnosed, or even just those with some BPD traits) throughout my life, whether friends or romances. I'm tired of this disturbing pattern, as it hasn't been all that fruitful for me. Getting mixed up with the "wrong" people has certainly held me back in life.

I've finally realized that yes, I'm also part of this problem. I've been a fixer, a codependent, an addict. As somebody already mentioned, I focus on *them* -- when I should have been focusing on *myself*. I've been doing that more & more these days. Although I don't have BPD, I'm also apparently not the healthiest. I have my wounds, too, which haven't been fully & properly addressed & healed. I don't have the best self-esteem sometimes, & I do have somewhat of a fear of intimacy... .  many people can struggle with this, even though they don't have a personality disorder.


I also come here because other people with similar experiences come here. It's nice to know that we are not alone. We all share a common bond. We support, and can get support. We learn & grow & heal. We want to understand. Something, a particular but unfamiliar term, perhaps, might show up in a post -- which will lead me to an internet search & exploration of another facet of personal understanding & healing.

I've also never truly shared the BPD experience(s) I've had with others. Some bits & pieces here & there, sure. It's good to get some of it out. The closest/most I've shared is with a friend, who incidentally enough, is a recovering pwBPD who has been in therapy for a while. She doesn't seem "as bad" as many I've run across. And she does understand the crazy-making that I've been on the receiving end. She saw how much the "extreme pwBPD" was affecting me, got more of a sense of what was going on, and then was helpful in trying to get me get out of the situation.


In any event, there are a lot of positives in being here.
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wanttoknowmore
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 10:32:44 AM »

Zack,

I read sometimes on these board that Nons has problems more than BPDs. This self blame is bizzare and unwarranted.

By that weird logic,  to love your loved one means you have a problem... . to take care of your sick father... . you have codependency issues... .  to help a neighbor in need... . you have a rescue- savior complex... . to fight a war against evilness... . you have narcissistic tendencies... . to help poor and hungry... . you have Mother Teresa syndrome , a firefighter who saves lives of burning people has masochistic tendency , a doctor or nurse who is dedicated to serving patients has workoholism and so on and so forth... .

I am sick and tired of this unjustified pathologizing of an average, healthy,kindhearted person and label them as having "issues" and "sickness"

A lot of people who have or had BPD are very eager to label Nons and make it sound like they are the sick ones. See the authors of many books and opinion makers like linehans etc . They still have this  need to project on Non whose only fault was to love, help and be caring to an sick person... .  Non did not even know in beginning that the loved one was sick.

Give the blame where it is due... .  blame it on the bad disorder called "BPD"

Please don't blame the Non who is suffering already due to his/her humanity.

Yes, there is rationale in irrationality of BPD and it can be understood with a lot of effort. The fact that we try to understand this phenomenon doesnot mean we are "sick" If that is sickness ,I will rather be "sick" just like Einstein,

Newton, Edison and thousands of scientists whose curiosity and desire to understand made it possible for us to  sit in our bedrooms and indulge in this luxury of talking about our sick BPD partners.
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 12:19:50 PM »

Wanttoknowmore, I hear your frustration. I am not in disagreement.

Though I will say, I am curious as to why my self-preservation didn't click in sooner. And, why I allowed my "good stuff" - kindness, empathy, loyalty, love, etc. - to be so horribly abused and exploited.

It's true, kind-hearted people often get taken advantage of in big and small ways in life. That I get. What I don't entirely "get" is why I allowed myself to be used/abused/exploited on THIS magnitude by my BPD Ex. I've got to believe there is some benefit to me in figuring that out. Screw the Ex.    
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 12:39:42 PM »

Wanttoknowmore, I agree with you to some extent.

A BPD wouldnt connect to another BPD, as a vampire wont connect to another, they need victims. Harsh, yes. But in my experience, thats what happens.

They need somebody "human", kind, with empathy and good feelings to suck from. The thing is, the non BPDs are sometimes ignorant of the situation. Some are in denial, some just dont see it coming. What amazes me the most is we take a lot of appaling behaviour and it takes months, years or even decades to see it clearly. Thats the real problem (at least to me): you see it clearly but you still make excuses and stay. You reward bad behaviour. And that is a HUGE mistake.

Zack, btw, Im in Brazil and its 14:33 may 4th  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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jp77

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 03:38:29 PM »

I partially agree. It would be best if we could move on, and it would be even better if we never got involved in this type of situation in the first place. But I don't think that makes us disordered, I think that's just a normal human reaction to an abnormal situation. So we made some mistakes, we overlooked some things, we didn't put up strong boundaries, we have trouble moving forward - these are not gigantic sins in the scheme of things.

We're struggling because we've dealt with extreme situations, extreme behavior, extreme emotions - and we're finding comfort in knowing other people have been through similar situations. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2013, 04:35:00 PM »

Both sides are to blame.

Here is our side:

-Attachment Style

-Trauma Bonding.

-Intermittent reinforcement

In a nutshell:

In adult romantic relationships, an individual will be experientially disposed towards specific relational dynamics, and the dynamic is precipitated by an individual’s attachment style.

There are four attachment styles: Secure, Anxious-Preoccupied, Dismissive-Avoidant, and Fearful-Avoidant.

I don’t think that it’s a great intellectual leap to envision the type of mayhem that will be encountered pairing an Anxious-Preoccupied with a Dismissive-Avoidant.

Trauma bonding: Unlike love, bonding is cumulative. We bond with the BPD in the idealization phase which makes us less inclined to rationalize boundaries when the devaluation occurs. As well, growing up in a chaotic household predisposes a person to unconsciously seek a similar relational setting as an adult.

Intermittent reinforcement.  If it was a craptacular experience all the time, we’d have little incentive to endure the experience.  Just like an economic transaction, we all have a costs-rewards ratio that is acceptable to us.  When costs outweigh rewards, we leg it. 

The Attachment style, Trauma bond, and intermittent reinforcement keep us in the game.

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LuckyEscapee
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 04:57:21 PM »

As sor623 says it takes two to have these relationships, and then once out, an awful lot of learning needs to happen as to: Why did I? Why me? and What the heck just happened?

I had never ever had even a sprinkling of BPD crazy in my relationships before. I don't smoke, I eat a healthy diet, I try and look after myself, and if I had known about BPD I wouldn't have done that either. I avoid things that are bad for me, yet managed to walk head first into definitively the worst experience of my life   I am educated and savvy, yet I didn't even know BPD existed. There should be more out there, more education I feel.

Now I am stronger and wiser (the hard way), and I have learned heaps about both myself and BPD. I am well down my path, and want to help others down their path when they find it - because I think that by far the majority of these paths end up at the same bewildering, bizarre place.
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Surnia
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2013, 12:11:20 AM »

Hi guys

a lot of interest and different opinions here. I would like to bring the topic back to zack who started it:

How is it for you? Where are the points for you to say: This is me?

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Zack

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2013, 02:46:17 AM »

Hi Surnia

Gosh I don't know where to start.

My uBPD fiancée finished our relationship during October 2011 because I went for a run, because I cut the grass whilst she sat in the sun and read her book, because I helped someone who asked for my help. We've recycled until February of this year even though she has a male 'friend' who stays over night at her house and has done since we split, perhaps even whilst we were together. All the red flags, all the obvious that says RUN... .  but I don't run. We went NC for 2 or 3 months. She would call my mobile from 4 different numbers, sometimes allowing me to know it was her, other times from 'private' and 'unknown' numbers... .  I don't know why she did this. During a week moment I sent her a text, a simple, brief text. It started the ball rolling again. She would send loving texts... .  ' I love you, I can't stop thinking of you, I'm not happy anymore, I want to live my life with you but it's impossible now'

Nothing has changed, she still doesn't show when we arrange to meet... .  I really hate that trait more than any of the others. I know a life with her would be miserable. That's why I'm thinking it must be me... .  a fault in me. 99% of people would have left the 'relationship' a long time ago and never looked back. I try and figure why I'm stuck... .  jealousy of the new guy in her life? the chase?. It's gonna take time but in my mind I know it's over... .  there's just no closure.

Zack (England, Sunday, 08:39)

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Surnia
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2013, 03:46:20 AM »

Zack

you are really not alone here in your struggle about recycling attempts from your ex. 

I would agree with you about something to investigate a bit closer. Don't beat yourself about it.

I would suggest you some reading. One could be part 2 of the Lessons on Leaving, "Understand your situation".

Another issue could be your boundaries. How aware are you about it? Perhaps you are struggling here too. It was a huge revelation for me, the boundary thing. Boundaries Tools of Respect
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Zack

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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2013, 12:15:40 PM »

Thank you Surnia

I'm troubled now... .  still troubled perhaps.

I've read the posts concerning boundaries (thank you) and I do tick four or five of the boxes... .  that worries me a little... .  should it?

God or nature made me. I've reached 45 years or age. I've loved, been loved, seen a lover die, seen my father die when I was 15... .  I'm not looking for sympathy... . gosh not at all... .  I'm willing to sacrifice my life for others... .  and I guess that is my problem Surnia. Soldiers die to save their comrades, people jump into rivers to save a pet. I nearly died trying to save my uBPDfiancee. 

It's me... .  the founder of my original question... .  Maybe it's us... .

Gosh. I am more confused than ever. I need to go NC, but I can't do that at the moment... .  maybe in time.

Thank you all for your thoughts.

England, 18:08. Mayday for us in the Uk tomorrow, a day from work.

 

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Surnia
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2013, 12:29:42 AM »

Yes boundaries-

you are not alone having some issues with boundaries. I was completely unaware about it in a close rs. The fence around my yard was rotten, everyone could step in and out.

So its time to go out, where the fence is. We can repair it. In daily life we can ask ourselves: Is it in my yard or not? What are my values?

We learned habits in our childhood. Some of them are not so wise as adults. We can change it. It needs awareness and patience and practice.

Back to your original question: For many of us I think is valable "It is us too." We have issues, traits. And we can learn and grow. 

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ZhaoZilong5

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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2013, 03:04:58 AM »

I echo Carri1's statement that people come here for validation if not for an attempt at finding closure.  The first one may be dangerous, considering I've seen many people learn that it's BPD, and then they come up with excuses to stay and try and fix their partners.  As for trying to find closure, it seems to help some people, while it doesn't seem to help some at all.
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2013, 04:43:25 AM »

Maybe we are damaged. It's us... .  it really is us. We have have met someone who is damaged... .  they treat us appallingly, wreck our lives, ruin our lives... .  but sat they love us.

My exBPD fiancee showed so many flags. My mind said RUN, my family and friends said RUN, as fast as you can... .  she has taken your life.

My point is... .  it's US... .  we are wrong... . don't blame the BPD for having a disorder... .  look at ourselves and ask why?       

I agree to a point. It is not so much us as it is the way we are wired and they choose US. They choose us because we can be made to be what they need. If they world was comprised of only BPDs, would mankind actually survive?

I ask myself this very question often too because truth is, most folks would never even consider putting up with even the small things that then become big things and then eventually monsters that consume us. It is something within us and I for one would like to know what that is.

Many of us can agree that something deep inside of them did not fully mature emotionally. That being said, I think most of us nons are good parents or at least good with empathy and what it takes to nurture a child. Maybe that small child (endeveloped emotional rationalle) inside of them is what traps us... .  




America 5:35 AM
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2013, 05:43:26 AM »

You put up with the behaviour because you love the person. You want to believe that you can fix their problem because you believe you love the person

If its afamily member you feel obligation ... .  yes we as non's have our stuff that we need to deal with and perhaps BPD's come into our lives to teach us something about ourselves.

Maybe the BPD's are in our lives for a reason. I know my mum (has BPD) has taught me alot about me and how I allow bad behaviours from others into my life.

Yes I could have had a normal family life but I didnt, and as much as I was effected by my upbringing by BPD mother, she at the same time made me realise that accepting anyones bad behaviour is not acceptable.

No i could have gone throught life with a normal mother and not experienced all the pain as having a BPD mother, but at the end of the day its ended up the same.

Where a normal mother would have taught me what bad behaviour was from others and taught me not to accept bad behaviour right off, it just took longer to learn not to accept bad behaviour from anyone... .  so that is what life dealt out to me at the end of the day.

The experience of a BPD mother has made me more compasionate and yes I could have learnt thi had I had a normal mother but I didt and there is still alot of positives of having a BPD mother... . just meant I had to work harder. For me theres nothing wrong with working harder... . I have learnt alot with having someone with BPD in my life. 

   
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