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Author Topic: Secrets, lies and devious behavior  (Read 897 times)
murph33

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« on: May 16, 2013, 09:25:13 AM »

How do you address a BPD (my husband) who lies about so much, has multiple Facebook accounts he thinks I don't know about and the one I do know about he blocks off his list of friends so I can no longer see who hes in contact with. He has a history of porn addiction and calling chatline,s possibly affairs. How do I approach him on this, what would a boundary on this look like. Normally when I do address him no matter how well I put it its a trigger and he rages. We are married for 6 years and he keeps everything from me such as bank accounts, debts etc. I don't trust him at all (why would I) but I do need to know how to bring this up and set a boundary? If I'm expected to be all open and above board then he needs to have that standard also whether BPD or not, that's my opinion. I have not tolerated it in the past but led to Hugh arguments, whats healthy when your dealing with a person with mental issues? what would a conversation look like with this issue in mind?
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 09:33:20 AM »

Can I just say I don't have the answer to this but relate to the whole 'sex addiction' thing which has caused major problems in our relationship. He has a history of talking to other women online and who knows what else?

I just also wondered how common this is and how it can be dealt with. Especially when the person in question will lie, lie and lie again about this behaviour and appear very plausable and rational about it - explaining it away, gaslighting, lying to your face etc. etc. And when confronted of course the RAGE and tell you how dare you SPY on them - like you are to blame!

It destroys trust and they know this yet they still do it. We have to be perfect and trustworthy but they can do what they want with whom they want and IT IS NOT OK!

I feel your pain Murph 33.
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murph33

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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 09:53:31 AM »

Thank you for your response HoM, these are all very good questions and issues that are going on since I discovered his "other life style", the laughable thing is he says HE doesn't trust me (which I know now is typical behavior for BPD) and wants to build trust into our marriage. I have a feeling this is very common behavior. Obviously boundaries are necessary for sure but my question is how to present it to them when you know the usual carry on that normally follows. They don't like any attention on them like this and normally projects it right back onto me. Will be interested to hear responses on this.
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almost789
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 02:04:28 PM »

Hi

I can relate to this. Sex addiction (porn addiction) is sometimes common in BPD people. Lying is as well. My friend with BPD has both of these issues. I don't mean to be pessimistic just truthful. I'll just say that in my experience if these are the types of acting out behaviors your pwBPD has they don't change when you make them a boundary for you. Whatever form of acting out an untreated dysregulated BPD has is usually beyond their control. It is part of their illness, it doesn't go away because you get tough on them and make it a boundary for you. Just like any addiction it doesn't stop because loved ones' state things like " i will not be in a relationship with someone who has a porn addiction" When you set that boundary, you must realize that their behavior will likely not stop. You then have to make the choice, will you live with this, or will you leave if that is you boundary. If your not ready for that, then the boundary will only create more stress for both you and the person with BPD. The better results come from the person with BPD undergoing treatment for their BPD if they are willing.   

Yes, they do have a double standard too. They want you to be all that perfect but they can't manage it themselves.
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murph33

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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 08:52:24 PM »

Hi summer,

Thanks for your response. My question is why bother with boundaries if there not going to make a difference, be respected and honored. So what your basically saying is that unless the person with BPD is in therapy there's no point! Ive had alcoholics in my family and I did set boundaries, no it didn't stop them drinking but however it did protect me in the sense if they were rude or disrespectful I removed myself from the firing line and left the room for example. Boundaries are there to protect the person who is establishing the boundary.The addicts in my family never did recover but I was able to still have a decent enough relationship with them because I was in al-anon learning how to deal with it. I like to look for the hope in every situation and like to feel I have options or alternatives to what would be a very dismal dilemma without them.
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murph33

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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2013, 08:55:21 PM »

I thought this subject would be typical BPD behavior that would bring more responses in terms of gaining clarity and direction. I'm surprised that there is not and I'm wondering why?
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 10:30:42 PM »

I deal with similar issues although I pay the bills and manage the bank account.  I don't have any good answers.  I would just make sure you have some accounts of your own so you are not dependent on H.  As far as the lies, if I call my H out he can talk faster and put such a spin on things that I end up feeling like it is my fault.  We have been married almost 21 years and I am reaching a point where I am ready to live in truth, so not sure what that will look like.

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murph33

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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 11:01:33 PM »

Hi Martillo,

It seems to be common behavior for the BPD. Yes when I confront about the lies he normally tries to project it onto me well now I'm the liar, or gets so angry and just walks out. It's tirsome really, it's so far from normal, how do people put up with or live with a BPD who is not in recovery. A big part of me thinks this is so not what I signed up for when I got married and I fell duped into a marriage that shortly after we moved in together turned into a living nightmare!
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waverider
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 05:17:48 AM »

A lifetime of covering up unacceptable behavior means this is their ingrained normality. It is their nature to naturally slip into it. If the RS is managed so nothing much phases you, or gets you offside that will lesson it. But it will always be there ready to put to use if they feel the need to, or sometimes like an old habit they cant kick.

It can be their comfort blanket. They dont want people to know everything about them, so even harmless trivial stuff is hidden, just for comforts sake.

I choose neither to believe nor disbelieve, treating everything as interesting and take it on face value, but would never make any important decisions based on what they say or do to be the absolute truth. Too much suspicion can make you sick
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 05:26:30 AM »

Hi Murph,

Exactly, it's not a boundary if you make the boundary, it is not respected or honored and then you continue in the relationship. That is not a boundary. A boundary is that you decide what your limits (boundaries) are and if they are not respected or honered you follow through with your action. I believe in boundaries, I have lots of them. I'm just saying that you have to be realistic. I don't know what type of boundaries you want to make. Transparency in the finances would be a good one, but thats your personal choice. But requesting an addict to stop their addiction without any treatment is unrealistic. Now, asking them to stop their addiction or you leave is fine if that's what you want. But be ready to enforce that boundary if he doesn't stop. Are you ready to end the relationship? Because again, addicts don't stop their behavior because of your boundary. Sex addiction is extremely difficult situation, but has it's roots in the underlying issues in many cases BPD. I guess what I am saying is that YOU have to determine your boudaries. What are they? Once you determine what they are then you can better decide how to approach it.
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 05:54:57 AM »

Hi

I replied to Murph on the other thread as I too am interested in this.

I do find the secrecy really hard to deal with, as I do the lies to my face and the incredible anger if 'accused' of something he allegedly is not doing (but I have evidence of SOME of what he is doing that I don't want to confront him with).

How does one deal with this - especially when what they are doing behind you back is betrayal - they would never wear it if you did it to them! The old BPD double standard.

I am only 'dealing' with this right now by knowing I am not strong enough yet to deal with the consequences if I confront it head on. In some ways, it is just another part of BPD I guess and if they are not prepared to confront, acknowledge, accept or work with it then is there any point in singling out this behaviour just because it hurts us a lot and we therefore can't trust them?


HoM
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 08:27:23 AM »

Hi

I replied to Murph on the other thread as I too am interested in this.

I do find the secrecy really hard to deal with, as I do the lies to my face and the incredible anger if 'accused' of something he allegedly is not doing (but I have evidence of SOME of what he is doing that I don't want to confront him with).

How does one deal with this - especially when what they are doing behind you back is betrayal - they would never wear it if you did it to them! The old BPD double standard.

I am only 'dealing' with this right now by knowing I am not strong enough yet to deal with the consequences if I confront it head on. In some ways, it is just another part of BPD I guess and if they are not prepared to confront, acknowledge, accept or work with it then is there any point in singling out this behaviour just because it hurts us a lot and we therefore can't trust them?


HoM

Confrontation achieves little except escalation.

For serious issues you use boundaries with actions you can enforce.

The hardest thing to come to terms with is the endless little issues, each in themselves not major, but the general pattern of them is hard to accept. Until you can really come to terms with this as a real Disorder, it is very difficult get your head around it.
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 10:24:47 AM »

Hi

Thanks. I know that confrontation is not a good idea! Plenty of experience in that not working and it usually leads to denial and blame anyway!

You said 'For serious issues you use boundaries with actions you can enforce' can you please guide me on this or point me to a part of the boards that can help?

I have ordered some books today from Amazon that I hope will help. It is very early days in my clarity about codependent / BPD relationships and stepping out from the confusion. All help gratefully received.

Thanks,

HoM
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 10:34:33 AM »

Hi

Thanks. I know that confrontation is not a good idea! Plenty of experience in that not working and it usually leads to denial and blame anyway!

You said 'For serious issues you use boundaries with actions you can enforce' can you please guide me on this or point me to a part of the boards that can help?

I have ordered some books today from Amazon that I hope will help. It is very early days in my clarity about codependent / BPD relationships and stepping out from the confusion. All help gratefully received.

Thanks,

HoM

a workshop on boundaries can be found here:

BOUNDARIES - Living our values
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 10:57:58 AM »

I thought this subject would be typical BPD behavior that would bring more responses in terms of gaining clarity and direction. I'm surprised that there is not and I'm wondering why?

I think the issue is that there just isn't much else to say. SummerT321 summed up the boundaries question pretty succinctly:

Exactly, it's not a boundary if you make the boundary, it is not respected or honored and then you continue in the relationship. That is not a boundary. A boundary is that you decide what your limits (boundaries) are and if they are not respected or honered you follow through with your action.

***

I guess what I am saying is that YOU have to determine your boudaries. What are they? Once you determine what they are then you can better decide how to approach it.

I might just add that a shift to radical acceptance is also necessary if you want to continue in your r/s. Your H is not going to change just because you want him to. So you have to accept that he has addictions. He lies (also a sort of addiction for a pwBPD). He's devious and keeps secrets. You can lessen the impact on you, but you can't force a change in the actual behaviour. You can learn to react in ways that are less threatening to your H, which may cause him to lie less frequently, but that's about it.

Here's an example of a boundary I set: I will not trust someone who lies with my finances. My H lies. I do not trust him with my finances any longer. I enforce this by setting up my own bank accounts that he does not have access to and I make sure that I have funds available in those accounts at all times in case I need them. I transfer amounts from our joint account to my personal account on occasion to ensure that my financial needs are taken care of.
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waverider
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »

Here's an example of a boundary I set: I will not trust someone who lies with my finances. My H lies. I do not trust him with my finances any longer. I enforce this by setting up my own bank accounts that he does not have access to and I make sure that I have funds available in those accounts at all times in case I need them. I transfer amounts from our joint account to my personal account on occasion to ensure that my financial needs are taken care of.

That is a good example of a relationship management boundary. As opposed to this is my boundary>>I'm leaving. It is a definite action and the action is self explanatory, non negotiable. The affect of the transgression is halted without demanding any compliance, it is totally in your control to remove the negative influence.

trying to apply too many boundaries is likely to start all out war, so pick them carefully
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 03:57:19 AM »

Thanks for pointing me to the boundaries workshop. I will take a look at that.

Some interesting points about trying to manage / cope with their lies and deceit. I suppose the hard thing that both Murph and I are in the dark about is the extent of any sex addiction i.e. is it solely non-contact or has there ever been contact with others during our relationships. The hard thing is that as a non BPD I have no need to lie or deceive and will answer questions honestly whereas he does not do this all the time - so it is hard to know when you have been lied to! He will look me straight in the eye and lie. I hate lies... .  

I hear you on boundaries too, I told him 3.5 years ago that if I found him on dubious adult chat sites again then our relationship would be over. It is easier said than done as I recently found emails indicating he was on a site of this type and chose not to confront him (at the time I did not know for sure he had BPD but now even though it is not diagnosed it is clear he does). I therefore understand at least what is behind this behaviour now whereas for a long time I had no idea WHY. I do wonder as to the full extent of his lies but to be honest we are together most of the time. I also wonder whether he engages partly in this behaviour to make me suspicious and so that with a lack of trust in our relationship on my part  I don't leave him alone often... .  ?

So I guess while I try and assess things and my feelings and whether I want to stay knowing all that I know I won't confront that issue (even though it hurts me) as it is just a symptom of the root cause and I guess I have to see it as just that. I would also be very surprised if actual physical contact were taking place.

I will read up about boundaries though - I think it would be very good for me as a codependent anyway, regardless of my issues with him.

Thanks,

HoM
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2013, 04:09:41 AM »

Waverider,

I just tried your link for the Boundaries info but it led to an old post on the site from somebody. Can you tell me where I can find the information?

Many thanks,

HoM
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waverider
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2013, 04:22:02 AM »

Waverider,

I just tried your link for the Boundaries info but it led to an old post on the site from somebody. Can you tell me where I can find the information?

Many thanks,

HoM

Sorry error in link, now fixed.

Keep in mind with boundaries they are not about right or wrong, or what is fair. They are about preserving your environment from what YOU cannot live with. This is why they go hand in hand with acceptance so that you are realistic about what your core issues are.  You cant force someone to be normal by putting boundaries around everything
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2013, 06:21:01 AM »

My stbex would lie about everything in the end and when the truth would come out I would get "I never once lied to you".  Asked if she was having an affair - your crazy! So we were talking about a seperation before I found out she was - so for the first time ever I looked at the cell bill online to see what her portion would be - low and behold she had 5,000 texts a month.  Confronted her - it was just a friend - pressed deeper it was a guy she met at school (lie).  Latter confronted about the time it started asked if it was this guy from the wedding she was in (your crazy - I told you it was a guy at school (lie).  Finally did a reverse cell search had guys name - confronted her with the name (that's my attorney -lie). Found out it was the guy from the wedding when I dug deeper (lie).  She told me it was only texting he wasn't on facebook which she started being all the time (lie - she just had him block me so I couldn't see him) also anytime she was doing "homework" at our house - I would walk in the room and she would switch off her FB page - and say I still need to figure this same question out 45 minutes latter.  Confronted her about why she started sleeping upstairs so she could text him "I never texted him at night" (lie) I had the cell records by now. Oh and BTW - I got chewed out for looking at the cell bill - which was an accident! Then I get you never trust me or beleive me I told you were only friends - hmmmm wonder why I don't!  Then I got to thinking about last year when she would have to go "study with a girlfriend at school" - I always said why don't you goto her house or have her come here "It's quiter at school" - I always thought it was odd on the days they had class one would pick up the other but on study night they never carpooled (really want to ask her friend - which is a real friend she has know for years) - if they did goto study?  Or was this a new person she had before this other "white knight". Oh one last thing - at the wedding they met I went to get a drink and came back he was rubbing all over her - her responce was "YOUR CRAZY!".  I'm also wondering now about the times she went to see her cousin from the same town he was in and she wouldn't have her cell phone or a signal? Funny - her cousin was always able to get a signal and so was her "friend".  Lie, Lie, Lie!
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 06:51:48 AM »

Excerpt
He has a history of porn addiction and calling chatline,s possibly affairs. How do I approach him on this, what would a boundary on this look like. Normally when I do address him no matter how well I put it its a trigger and he rages.

I don't think that upfront conversations about boundaries work in our house.  I just have to determine in my own head what a boundary will be and implement.  I implement when I can't tolerate a situation any more.  I found that upfront boundaries trigger him into a rage and then he sees them as rules that can be broken. 

My husband does have a sexual/ porn addiction.  He said that it provides comfort to him.  Fortunately for me his sexual addiction is contained within the 4 walls of this house so I don't really worry about affairs etc.  I have basically figured out what is acceptable to me (porn is ok.  other partners are not.)  The guideline that a senior member of this forum gave me on boundaries is that if you are going to leave if they do X, then make sure that your significant other knows up front.  Otherwise it is ok to enforce boundaries in the moment. 

There are very few things that would be relationship deal breakers for me 1. an affair 2. hard drugs (cocaine, heroine)... .  not that we have ever had those issues but I wanted him to know up front that his downward spiral better not include 1 or 2 or I'm done.

If he started spending all his time on websites/ watching porn I would say something.

"I'm not ok with you spending all this time on these sites and not spending time with me.  If you do start spending the day doing that, I am going out and I'll see you this afternoon."   
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 06:58:17 AM »

My stbex would lie about everything in the end and when the truth would come out I would get "I never once lied to you".  Asked if she was having an affair - your crazy! So we were talking about a seperation before I found out she was - so for the first time ever I looked at the cell bill online to see what her portion would be - low and behold she had 5,000 texts a month.  Confronted her - it was just a friend - pressed deeper it was a guy she met at school (lie).  Latter confronted about the time it started asked if it was this guy from the wedding she was in (your crazy - I told you it was a guy at school (lie).  Finally did a reverse cell search had guys name - confronted her with the name (that's my attorney -lie). Found out it was the guy from the wedding when I dug deeper (lie).  She told me it was only texting he wasn't on facebook which she started being all the time (lie - she just had him block me so I couldn't see him) also anytime she was doing "homework" at our house - I would walk in the room and she would switch off her FB page - and say I still need to figure this same question out 45 minutes latter.  Confronted her about why she started sleeping upstairs so she could text him "I never texted him at night" (lie) I had the cell records by now. Oh and BTW - I got chewed out for looking at the cell bill - which was an accident! Then I get you never trust me or beleive me I told you were only friends - hmmmm wonder why I don't!  Then I got to thinking about last year when she would have to go "study with a girlfriend at school" - I always said why don't you goto her house or have her come here "It's quiter at school" - I always thought it was odd on the days they had class one would pick up the other but on study night they never carpooled (really want to ask her friend - which is a real friend she has know for years) - if they did goto study?  Or was this a new person she had before this other "white knight". Oh one last thing - at the wedding they met I went to get a drink and came back he was rubbing all over her - her responce was "YOUR CRAZY!".  I'm also wondering now about the times she went to see her cousin from the same town he was in and she wouldn't have her cell phone or a signal? Funny - her cousin was always able to get a signal and so was her "friend".  Lie, Lie, Lie!

Sorry to hear you went through this. It is a good example of why you need boundaries. They excuses will keep piling up, no matter how unbelievable, the goal post keep shifting until you say no. You dont need the facts or proof of anything. As I said earlier it is not about whether you are right or wrong, or even if being fair. If the behavior is chewing you up you put up a boundary, say no more. Then you remove yourself from the environment.

Confrontation usually resolves nothing, denial is everything (fight or flight response), resolution is not on the agenda.

By the way boundaries dont need discussion and agreement, helps if this is possible, but it isn't always. These are you boundaries, you action, and not negotiable if you have chosen them wisely
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2013, 07:00:49 AM »

Thanks for the right link  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I scanned it and already feel slightly overwhelmed when it comes to boundaries! Quite a difficult one for a codependent like me. I guess living in a family when I was young that was very pro accepting the status quo and agreeing with / doing whatever my Dad wanted set the stage for that! Still, it is never too late to learn!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I will discuss this area with my counsellor to see what insights she has but any help in this area and how to approach it gratefully received.

The thing that foxes me is about how to reconcile my values (truth, clarity) when in a relationship with someone who lies and is devious (albeit under the surface, he would say he is truthful  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))! Any help here? I start to feel confused as I am being compromised by my partner's values in relation to mine. Should I just do the values exercise in relation to me and then if there are dissonances raised by my relationship deal with those separately? How do I then sort the boundaries out if there is a values clash?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my endless questions!


HoM
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2013, 09:47:59 AM »

I had someone tell me that codependency was, at its roots, just a lack of boundaries. That made a lot of sense to me. It also explains why us CDs get so overwhelmed trying to learn to set boundaries with our pwBPD! No worries though - you can catch two birds in one net here! Smiling (click to insert in post)

Boundaries are based on your values. They have nothing to do with your partner's values. Don't start thinking about him when you're trying to take care of you! See how that CD sneaks itself in there? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

You don't have to reconcile your values with his. Truth is important to you = you should always tell the truth. It's important to be told the truth? Well then you have two choices: (a) leave if he continues to lie because you refuse to be in r/s with someone who lies to you (understandable); or (b) decide that his lying is his 'stuff' and only he's responsible for what comes out of his mouth - you've done nothing wrong so just ignore him and take everything he says with a grain of salt (or a pile).

My previous example, re finances, was one of my boundary for dealing with lies. Truth is important. I'm not a liar. I don't trust liars (go figure). Therefore I do not trust my H with our money. Therefore I will put money into an account he can't access to protect myself. Another one: I will not refrain from asking questions or requiring proof from a liar. I used to feel bad if I started asking too many questions, sometimes I'd cut myself off or talk myself out of asking for proof if my H got upset. No more. If he is going to lie to me, I am not going to budge on my demands for more information and he'll just have to learn to live with that. He doesn't have to answer me but he knows that I will then assume he is lying. Boundary: I will not believe a liar unless I have proof and I will ask for that proof if I want to.

Hope something in there was helpful to you! Keep asking questions! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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almost789
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »

Thank Arabella, good post. I was trying to figure this out myself in how to anwser. The truth is some BPD's have a problem with chronic lying. If truth is important to you (as it is to me) you have only two choices with this. You can either accept that the chronic lying is part of the disorder and stay in the relationship anyway. Or decide that you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who tells lies frequently and often for no reason. I think people get confused because they think that if they somehow when they set their boundry it will somehow effect the lying or whatever problem is. Not with BPD. You really have to radically accept, or not accept. The behaviors don't stop with boundry setting in a BPD relationship. However, maybe part of the confusion lies in that we try to apply what would happen in a normal relationship, by setting a boundary to BPD people and it doesn't. For instance, with a person who doesn't have BPD you may be able to say. I won't accept you lies anymore. I can't be in a relationship with someone who lies to me frequently. Regulgar person, could probably stop lying to you. BPD's have much less control over their behaviors.
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House of Mirrors

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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2013, 10:15:42 AM »

Thanks again Arabella,

Yes it sure can sneak up on us and usually does!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Wow - if I asked my SO for 'proof' or acted like I disbelieved him then it would just trigger rage! I hinted at something (for that read 'accused him' in his perception) last week and he went right off the deep end. I think it is because he feels that a violent denial = me thinking he is telling the truth when in fact it is often the opposite! What he was not aware of is that I had proof of sorts that I was unwilling to disclose. He even said if I had proof I should let him see it! So convinced was he of his innocence (BS?) / the fact I hadn't bothered to check on him... .  

It is a tough one as I don't like being lied to which means that as it seems he is still lying to me about things that I consider dealbrekers, I have nowhere to go with this unless I choose to ignore it or leave. At present, I am choosing to not deal with it directly as I am busy dealing with bigger things but that one lying, cheating behaviour upsets me the most.  

I will work on my values though in the meantime and ignore how that relates to him or the relationship!


Cheers  

HoM
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2013, 10:20:29 AM »

Thanks again Summer,

I think I am currently somewhere in the middle of those 2 choices!

Honestly, sometimes I feel like my head is just spinning with all this stuff... .  so much to take in... .  yet day to day on the surface my relationship is actually a lot better than it has been in a long time. Weird!

HoM
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2013, 10:28:16 AM »

Yup, my H gets really pissed off when I ask for proof or tell him I don't believe him. He doesn't 'rage' really, so I'm not afraid of him or anything, which is what makes my boundary possible. Actually, I have another boundary - I will not stay in a r/s with someone I am afraid of. Back to the lying and confrontation... .  Mostly I don't confront his lies because I don't care. Most issues aren't important and it doesn't matter to me. If it's something important my boundary goes into effect. He can be as pissed off as he likes - I don't care. I simply told him, 'look, I don't trust you, you're going to have to accept that.' If he has a boundary that cause him to leave me for that, well, not much I can do about it. So far so good. Mostly it ends with him not being willing to prove anything (because he's lying), him being 'offended', and me just shrugging and saying 'fine, then I'll believe what I want.'

If you have a dealbreaker issue, don't confront him unless you are willing to enforce the boundary. Figure it all out ahead of time. If you confront him and then don't leave, all you've done is reinforce his bad behaviour - it will be that much harder to enforce the boundary later (around here it's call "intermittent reinforcement" of a boundary).

You sound like you're on the right path - don't worry, it gets easier! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2013, 08:51:41 AM »

Hi again,

OK I am fighting with myself about this issue. As I said before, I have recent evidence that he is still on adult chat sites that I have not chosen to reveal to him as I have other things I am focussing on right now. As far as he knows I am in blissful ignorance.

BUT last night something triggered me (maybe because I KNOW he is still doing these behaviours Vs. prior to that I THOUGHT he may have changed them so I lived in hope). He took his phone to the toilet with him. When I went up the stairs obviously I could see he was using it with his back to me. Maybe he didn't realise I had seen him purposely pick up his phone and take it out of the room with him... .

So anyway, I stood on the stairs and said something to the effect of "Why do you need to take your phone into the bathroom with you if you are not doing something you want to hide from me?"

He didn't rage, he just calmly put it in his pocket and mumbled something about he was just using his phone but wasn't doing anything (with no detail added) it was all a but shady to be honest. So I said, "I must be completely mad then huh?" and just walked off. He didn't talk about what had happened after. i  was annoyed but just went quiet.

It was all rather weird really but my FEELING was that he was up to something and I felt bad because I know he is up to things but it is all hidden. It is like having an elephant in the room. I want to confornt it and make it stop but I have no power over it unless I am willing to give an ultimatum that I follow through on. Right now I am not prepared to follow through.

I am not sure I know how to deal with this other than to ignore it and put it to the back of my mind which is not dealing with it. I am not sure how to enforce a boundary about it. Perviously I told him that if I found out he was doing it I would leave. He doesn't know that I know.

Can anyone help me here please? I am struggling... . and it really annoys the hell out of me and I have to suppress it which just makes me angry with him but unable to express it.

Thanks,

HoM
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2013, 04:56:18 PM »

As boundaries are about you, you dont need proof of anything. It is not about having proof that he is doing something. It is about protecting yourself from an environment where you dont feel reassured that he is not doing something. It is the gut wrenching suspicion that you are erecting a boundary to protect yourself from.

What someone is or is not doing at the end of the day is not the problem. The problem is how the environment affect syou.

Otherwise you can get trapped in a circular argument and paranioa about proof and catching people out.

Boundaries/Codependency/ Lack of self confidence, these things are closely related. You cant overturn the world in a day. Slowly working on these things a bit at a time will effect each one of them, and support each other. You need to believe in your self to reinforce boundaries, shrug off codependency. Which reinforce self confidence.

I Like to call it it unwinding the spiral you have previously descended
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