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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: The rescuer in me is unleashed, again  (Read 679 times)
schwing
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« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2013, 03:29:14 PM »

One strange thing I was able to identify, which relates to my vivid imagination I described earlier, is that in my head this dire situation is being played out to it's most dramatic.  I imagine things I should say to people, the final goodbye so to speak, and really, it's not the right way to think.  It's like I want to make a lasting impact, when in reality these people are living their own lives, and yes they might miss me or whatever, but it's not something I should worry about.  I have my own life to worry about.

This is a big event... . for you.  You're right it might not be a big event for everyone else, but you're not everyone else, you're you.  And perhaps it is you who feels this drama, and looking for an outlet.  Perhaps you have a desire to express some final goodbyes, not for them, but for you.  And it's quite human to want to see your leaving as leaving an impact on these other people's lives, and maybe to some it will, but you won't know unless you engage them to say your goodbyes.  

I sat around brooding, asking myself how did I let my life get this way, to where I sit around on a holiday weekend with nothing to do, nobody to hang around with.  It was sometime over the weekend when I looked at old photos I have and realized that for a long time stretching way back to childhood that I always put an emphasis on having a lot of friends.  It used to be a people pleaser problem, but somewhere along the way I realized that some poeple can't be pleased, are a bad influence, etc, and began taking more care as to whom I associated with.

Then you have a great idea for how to seed your future.  

The main problem I deduce from this having a lot of freinds problem is that it somehow became a measurement of success in my head.  As long as I had plenty of freinds to socialize (i.e. validate me) then there was no need to persue a career.  I literally have nothing but entry level restaurant experience (with a fraction of managorial experience) as a career.  Nothing wrong with that per se, expcept that I much smarter than that and could be doing much better off had I just buckled down and persued something.  This also messes with my head because now I will be starting over again and have nothing to fall back on, careerwise.  I do have a wonderfully supportive family who will be there for me, but the truth is I should be more independant than I now am, and it's frustrating.

To much socializing does take away time from pursuing professional endeavors.  You now have a drive to exercise your other talents, that's good.  And in the future, you have the challenge of striking a new balance between professional life and social life.  

For starters, thoughts of her, of being with her, tremendously exascerbate the inner judgmental tormentor.  

Ok... . that you have to shut down, the "inner judgmental tormentor."  I don't know where you picked up this thinking, but this part of your thinking does not serve you, certainly not right now.

A while ago, around the *day of warmth*, I practically condemned myself to emotional death simply for not being available to act on those deeply felt impulses.  I had to accept that for the last 12 years I was in an unfulfilling relationship, that I *settled*, and it made me ill.  I don't want to think of X that way.  She's been very good to me, despite our incompatibility.  She hasn't been perfect, I'll admit, and neither have I, but I still see her in a positive light and care about her.  

Here's why I think it felt like an emotional death not to act on those deeply felt impulses: because for the last 12 years you've neglected a part of yourself. Maybe it's a part of yourself that your partner should have nurtured.  But I would argue, that if you are not aware of it, how could she hope to be aware of it... . there are those occasional serendipitous relationships for those of us with a y chromosome that we should be so lucky to end up with someone who does... . but I believe it's our individual responsibility to take care of our own internal happiness.

I think I know what you describe feels like.  I think it feels like going on for years believing that you should be happy or evening convincing yourself that you are happy until you find something that knocks you upside your head and wakes you up to the fact that you are not actually happy.  And that *day of warmth* experience that you felt may shed a wee bit of light on that regard, but I seriously doubt that this other woman holds the key to your happiness.  No one does.  We hold it.  And if we never learned as children to cultivate such happiness in ourselves, then we endeavor to learn this as adults.

Maybe I'm having a hard time seperating love from admiration.  Obviously, seeing her everyday makes it hard to make that emotional seperation.  Enter the new/old girl into the picture and I was emotionally torn apart.

You can't love anyone more than you love yourself.  And considering that, I think right now, the way you are feeling about yourself, it's probably pretty hard to find the love you might feel towards your ex.  Enter the new/old girl, and suddenly, you have a sense of how much capacity for love you have, and how much you want for yourself.  But I don't believe that loves is coming from her, she is only a catalyst for you.  How could you love her?  Technically you barely know her right now.

But how you feel about her right now, is a whole lot better than how you might be feeling about yourself right now, so I can understand the powerful draw.

Hope some of this is helpful.

Best wishes, Schwing
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David Dare
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2013, 04:13:53 AM »

Thanks, shwing, for replying so thoroughly to this post.  It's given me a lot to think about.  With each day that passes, something new happens, I take a step forward, or perhaps back at times, and my perspective changes a little bit.  There's a lot here to process.  I'll try my best to respond to everything, becuause you are correct on many points.

For starters, let me say that overcoming my uBPDx r/s introduced to many theories -- traingulation, projection, etc -- that are helping me sort this out, and I do my best to avoid the trappings that comes with ignorance of such knowledge.  For example, with the new/old girl, I didn't think it was fair to stay in regular contact while making my way through my situation for reasons that I hope protect the both of us from misplaced stress.  What happens here isn't her business, so in turn I made sure not to make her life my business.  What you mentioned about her being a catalyst that drove this awareness in me that I've been unfulfilled is true.  I realize that.  And, as time has passed, I've developed a more rational approach to the scenario, that I can't and shouldn't be planning a r/s with her until I've moved past my current situation.  This plays into why we really don't talk much.  It does me no good at this point.  I am consumed with putting this behind me, and until I do that, communicating with her would just be a distraction, and at worst could lead down a path I wish to not take her.  She knows what I'm going through, and she understands.   I think, too, that I'm trying very hard to prevent unwanted triangulation.  I don't want her feelings to be based on what I'm experiencing with my here-and-now ex as we go through this process.  I want to be in the clear before moving forward at all.  It is hard, trying my patience, but I am surviving.

It's true that some aspects of dealing with this woman have triggered responses within that remind me of times I dealt with uBPDx.  Much of that stems from some chats we had, where she'd say things like "I never had a relationship like the one we had."  I imagine she means that in a positive light, and yes, much of the conversations we had while we were communicating regularly were positive.  But still, it's open to interpritation.  What does "like the one we had" mean?  To be fair, considering my circumstances, I never really pressed the issue on that, or anything else too far, because I know that continuing down such paths at this juncture means nothing; I will still end up here at the end of the day, dealing with this mess.  So, basically, although our communication was positive and open, I didn't press too far, again, to avoid going to deep too soon, although it got deep enough, so to speak.  We were both candid, honest.  I just don't want her to know what I'm going through right now, partly because it's none of her business, and partly because I don't want to draw her in, make her feel pressured to make decisions that don't need to be made at this point.

The part about the guys she mentioned -- the one who wants to be with her, and the one she wants to be with but doesn't want her -- sounds worse than it is, IMO.  I don't know the details too much about the second guy, but the first she explained fairly thoroughly to me.  FWIW, she's living a rather down and out life at the moment.  She has no transportation, so she relies on various means to travel.  Again, I didn't press, because, in this case anyway, I don't want to know, yet.  I don't want to take on that emotional investment.  I can't.  It does me no good.  As for the guy she wants to be with, I really don't know what that means.  I know she has a fairly recent x who she says used her, but this might be someone else she is referring to.  Again, what good does it do to press when I have no business getting that personal right now.  You're right, though, I see the trapazoid, it's there for sure.  Maybe when I'm more available I'll be able to get to the bottom of it.  And, I guess, while on topic, I'm doing my best to avoid being a part of that trapazoid.  Communicating with her is a two-way street.  Neither she or I really communicate because it's pointless, like running into a brick wall over and over again.  All I can really say is, "Yep, I'm still here.  Nope, haven't moved.  Hope you're having a good day", etc. 

The familial aspect you mention is interesting, but I have trouble putting a finger on my own.  I was raised by my mother, who I do believe has a sort of smothering aspect about her.  I sensed it when I visited her a few weeks ago.  It felt neurotic.  She is a devout Christian, very conservative, and a good person overall.  We've had trouble relating over the years because I became a tad rebellious, possibly due to the fact that she couldn't relate with my teenage culture at the time.  I've grown up since then, no longer rebellious, and we get along fairly well now.  I'm not sure how her role in my life plays into my feelings for this woman, but I can tell you I definitely can see how it played into the role I felt with my current x.  She kind of took care of me as a mother would, if that makes sense.  It was kind of lopsided that way.  I sensed it long ago.  As for this other girl, I just don't know.  Probably, I would say the lack of a father plays more a role, because I'm not very masculine and somewhat passive.  Again, though, very consfuing to me in the context of the old/new girl.

One thing that developed the last couple of days is I told my current X that I need to leave sooner than later.  It is somewhat related to my feelings for the old/new girl, but moreso just my desire to be free.  And to be honest, it felt good.  This entire scenario needs to end.  It's dragged me down for too long.  It's like a shackle on my ankle that prevents me from living the life I want, whether it be to liberate me to pursue new/old girl, or to put distance between me and my current situation.  I just can't take it anymore.  I've been managing the situation the wrong way, I believe.  I've put too much emphasis on earning enough money, and not enough on my feelings, which are telling me to leave.  If I have to cut it shorter than originally planned with a few hundred dollars less in the nest egg, so be it.  There's no telling what can happen between now and then, and I might not make any fiscal progress at all, as is the case the past month when a slew of vehicle repairs took a chunk out of my egg.  I could stay here in an endless income/expense loop, never getting ahead, stuck here until the very last day possible, which at this point is still an uncertain date.  It's driving me mad.

And yes, it's true, I have been putting other people's feelings ahead of mine too much for too long.  It's hard to change that.  There's no other way to manage it than do what's best for me and let the cards fall where they may.

Thanks again for responding.  I probably missed a couple points, but there was a lot to take in at once.  I'll be back again, soon enough, I'm sure.

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« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2013, 03:13:23 AM »

Wanted to add... .

I just noticed the part where you suggest answering questions to myself.  Whoops!  Oh well, I don't mind typing outloud, as this is an anonymous forum.

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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2013, 01:08:34 AM »

Just wanted to give an update, and vent some serious feelings I'm suffering through at the moment. 

For starters, the court date for the foreclosure hearing of this property came and went.  I'm now scouring the weekly local newspaper in search of a foreclosure declaration.  I just want it to end.  It is a yolk that has brought me down, prevented me from living the life I want to live, which brings me back to the girl I've been longing for but can't break away to go meet.  Call it a hunch, a reading of the proverbial tea leaves if you will, but I sense that the connection between us, that great moment of a few days, weeks, months when I felt she was mine again, has passed, and it makes me terribly sad. 

To be honest, I usually come and post under this thread whenever this feeling hits me.  I put myself in this position... .   a position of longing for something that I had no gaurantee of ever pursuing, and it just sucks.  I feel so alone, so disgusted by the dynamics of the timing of it all.  I think to myself, "what if I'd waited to reach out until the foreclosure was behind me?".  It's like someone somewhere is playing "You've lost that loving feeling", not because I have, but because she has.

So how do I know this?  Or, rather, how do I come to this conclusion?  We've had no pertinent direct communication in a while.  Like I mentioned, I don't want to do that, be in a position to make drastic moves while this foreclosure plays out.  For the record, the last direct conversation was of her griefing over her daughter not graduating from high school.  She didn't want to lay her stress on me, which I appreciate, but at the same time really didn't mind listening to her vent.

Anyway, despite the lack of direct communication, the Facebook train keeps chugging along, and I can sense through her posts that she's seeing or has tried to see someone and it didn't or isn't going well.  Yes, it's a no-brainer... . pull the plug, be done with it, and move on.  In my head I still rationalize that I expected this, that I made no commitment, but in my head I know that when the time comes I would seek her out, that a window of opporunity would arise. 

At any rate, I feel horrible, and decided to refrain from using Facebook for a while.  It's just too much for me, considering what I'm going through with the foreclosure.  I'm trying to escape, and perhaps have been escaping mentally for a very long time, just now coming to terms with it.  It's just so damn hard to let go.

I just had a moment of clarity while writing this that I'd like to share.  This girl, M, why do I like her so much?  She's the first woman who made me feel like a man.  Not sure what that means, but that's how I describe it.  She made me feel whole.  And that is fine and dandy, but looking deeper, I think that because that feeling is linked to her, I desperately long to feel it again, when I should be looking elsewhere?.?  It's like, the way she treated me, respected me, admired me, maybe played into narcissistic supply?  Could this be true?  I'm not saying I'm NPD, but rather my ego misses her and wants her back.  Maybe it is supply, but really, we hit it off well.  Maybe I'm clinging to the memory, the possibility, instead of just living in the now.  I mean, honestly, assuming she has or is working on a love interest, I'd rather she be happy with that than waiting around for me.  I'm not of the mindset that she has to be mine, period.  I just wanted a shot at something we couldn't pursue many years ago.

Anyway, I'm all over the place now... .   Thanks for reading.
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« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2013, 03:13:16 AM »

You may be getting to something. Once you are able to shed the story line that you may have created around what happened, you will found the process to be a source of growth. I have learnt to put aside what the other person may have contributed to the situation and only consider my part.


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« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 05:45:44 PM »

This girl, M, why do I like her so much?  She's the first woman who made me feel like a man.  Not sure what that means, but that's how I describe it.  She made me feel whole.  And that is fine and dandy, but looking deeper, I think that because that feeling is linked to her, I desperately long to feel it again, when I should be looking elsewhere?.? 

I think that's really, really insightful. I don't think anyone can make us whole. If they're able to do it for a while, I don't think it can last. And we just end up depending on someone else to provide what we ought to be able to feel on our own. That's why people recommend focusing on yourself before getting involved again. You're going through a very difficult, painful process right now with the foreclosure, and you're probably more susceptible to looking for someone to make you feel better.
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« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2013, 07:41:00 PM »

Thanks catsprt and livednlearned for the responses.  I tell you, just writing it out and receiving these responses really helps.  It's like I know in my head that what you both said is true, even before I write the post to begin with, but putting it out there and getting a response helps it sink in somehow.  I try so hard to let this all play out, the foreclosure, etc, without getting depressed about it, but it gets tough at times and I need to vent.  And, ugh, Facebook... .   I feel like I'm addicted to it, not just for this girl per se, but for my own enjoyment, posting pics, writing strange funny quips.  It's just a waste of time, though.  Anyway, thanks again.
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« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2013, 08:36:21 PM »

David,

Being pretty codependent myself, some of the things you have said really jumped out me. I see some similarities in myself. No, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.

What I am beginning to learn (meaning I certainly don't have a handle on it yet) is that ALL OF THIS keeps going back to the same thing--over and over and over. BOUNDARIES.

I also tell waaaayyy too much right away. Start baring my soul before I even know if it's safe to do so. Why? Because I lack good stable boundaries. I also am attracted to impossible/unavailable situations. Because I lack boundaries and prefer "unrequited love" over rejection (the rejection likely coming from pushing myself on someone who feels overwhelmed by my deluge of personal information too soon and too all-at-once). When I tire of this dilemma, I hook up with someone who needs "help", so I can prove I'm valuable and worthy, and have "earned" their love (and my definition of "love" is a little skewed--it more often than not involves intensity over intimacy).

Are you seeing a counselor of some sort? I recommend it simply because these things are generally unconscious patterns-ingrained habits, which we try to "overcome" with conscious and/or emotional reactions/self reprimands. A counselor can be the uninvolved 3rd party who helps you develop new, more healthy patterns.
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 01:40:40 PM »

David,

Being pretty codependent myself, some of the things you have said really jumped out me. I see some similarities in myself. No, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.

What I am beginning to learn (meaning I certainly don't have a handle on it yet) is that ALL OF THIS keeps going back to the same thing--over and over and over. BOUNDARIES.

I also tell waaaayyy too much right away. Start baring my soul before I even know if it's safe to do so. Why? Because I lack good stable boundaries. I also am attracted to impossible/unavailable situations. Because I lack boundaries and prefer "unrequited love" over rejection (the rejection likely coming from pushing myself on someone who feels overwhelmed by my deluge of personal information too soon and too all-at-once). When I tire of this dilemma, I hook up with someone who needs "help", so I can prove I'm valuable and worthy, and have "earned" their love (and my definition of "love" is a little skewed--it more often than not involves intensity over intimacy).

Are you seeing a counselor of some sort? I recommend it simply because these things are generally unconscious patterns-ingrained habits, which we try to "overcome" with conscious and/or emotional reactions/self reprimands. A counselor can be the uninvolved 3rd party who helps you develop new, more healthy patterns.

This post is very helpful, doubleAries.  What you mention about starting things to quickly, or divulging too much too soon, rings true for this scenario.  However, I should add, that it wasn't I who was opening up so quickly, but she, and there's the added wrinkle of the fact that we both already know each other from years ago, making it a little more comfortable.  We aren't complete atrangers, and we already have a history, a good history.

I sensed her opening up, not just about herself, but also the way she was evaluating me, qualifying me.  I knew it was going too fast, especially since I couldn't break away and do anything.  And I came to a point where I told myself I either keep going or stop, and I kept going, until later when I knew I had to back off.  For that brief time of openness I enjoyed it very much, it was great.  As for fixing her, or rescuing, this and that: when this foreclosure is final my life will be wide open to do what I want.  I'll be able to take it slow, and go from there. 

Also, the boundary topic is also ringing true for the foreclosure situation, how I stayed in it for so long, with my ex, and how I let her family trample my boundaries time and again.  It's a long story, but that frustration has been bubbling now and again the last few weeks.  It's like I'm being respectful of a situation I want nothing to do with, answering to someone who is already in my past, mentally, but still in the present. 
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 09:22:28 PM »

There came is this vividly remembered time in my life when the brick hit me in the face--I kept hooking up with relationships where, no matter how much I did, I was taken advantage of, and used until there was nothing left to take. Than The brick to the face--why are these people attracted to me, and more importantly, why am I attracted to them?

We grasp the BPD's dilemma with rejection/abandonment. Do we grasp that we have the same issue? Usually not, because we don't react the same way the BPD does to this fear. But it is still a core issue. And one of the commonalities that attracts us to them and them to us. The pain of being apart, and yet the repulsion of being consumed.

When the repulsion becomes overwhelming, we (or they) leave, and we try to do the same exact thing all over again with someone else. With pretty much the same results (which we can ignore if some of the minor details differ).

If the BPD's need us to suck dry, well, we need them to distract us from dealing with our OWN issues. The drama, the needs, the vulnerability, the victimhood--oh! what a fabulous distraction! It's so shiny and compelling! We can analyze them endlessly--what's wrong with them, what they are doing to us, and why--all while ignoring our own problems with self doubt, values and boundaries, self-worth, and codependency (great video here about codependency, counter dependency, and Dependent PD www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4P05S2QtwQ )

Obviously, you were open to her opening up too quickly, too much too soon. Why?
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 10:21:02 PM »

doubleAries... . you nailed it!

Aarrgh!  This is so spot on.  Thank you.  I am in therapy, trying to allow this pain to keep prying me open and facing all of what you have described... . it is so true.
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« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2013, 06:30:54 PM »

  DD, I'm jumping into this thread pretty late.

I just thought I'd mention that I was seeing some  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) from this old flame you were reconnecting with at the start, and continued to see more of them. Most of them fit in the categories of being emotionally unavailable for a real relationship, and living a life where she doesn't really know what she wants or how to get it.

The real PI question is why were you so entranced by somebody who presented this way?
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2013, 11:43:09 AM »

Thanks for the replies doubleAries and Grey Kitty.  They really help.

@doubleAries - I wouldn't say I was necessarily accepting of her openness right away.  It didn't get there right away.  It started out really great.  I didn't sense anything out of the ordinary right away.  This is a girl I really admired from long ago and always wanted to reconnect with, so when it finally happened, I was overwhelmed with joy.  She was saying a lot of great things, how she thought of me a lot over the years, stuff like that.  And we were talking a lot, all the time, over the course of a few weeks.  Then, eventually, I pulled back because the inability to see her in person was causing terrible anxiety.  But yes, there was a definite point when I realized she was divulging too much, and like I said a couple times, I chose to just accept it, even though I know it felt wrong.  In a way, I perceived her openness as a sign of trust, that she was letting me into her personal thoughts.  But some of the stuff she was saying were things I'd rather not know.

And as you say, Grey Kitty, there are some red flags, and I am willing to admit that now.  Especially after the last few days, I hate to say it, but she may very well be BPD, or PD of some sort and it's breaking my heart.  She is distant now, emotionally, and when I pried she went off the handle.  Some of that is my fault, I will admit that I have been a tad forceful as the time when I can actually break away and see her draws nearer, trying to re-establish open communication before I had to pull away.  Now, it seems may never see her, which saddens me.  I keep telling myself, ":)ave don't do this to rescue her, just go see her, take a short vacation and go see her."  It's what I've wanted to do for years.  But if she doesn't want that, or can't figure out what she wants, then, sigh... .    I just have to accept it and move on.

Sadness... .    great sadness.
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« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2013, 03:21:19 PM »

DD, Yes it is sad. But I think she is telling you that she isn't ready to give you the sort of relationship you want to have.

Consider: If I was in a r/s with a person and I "pushed too hard for intimacy" what response do I want/expect?

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) A honest conversation where I'm told that I need to back off a bit to make her feel comfortable

Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Pulling away suddenly and harshly without any explanation

In the long run it is better for her to tell you clearly (in the only way she can) that she isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want to be in. (Hmmm... . having my own PI moment, as I'm in a r/s where I get more of the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) than the  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) version. But I digress. Perhaps I'll have to start my own thread about this later, and probably on the dating board)
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« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2013, 08:46:08 PM »

DD, Yes it is sad. But I think she is telling you that she isn't ready to give you the sort of relationship you want to have.

Consider: If I was in a r/s with a person and I "pushed too hard for intimacy" what response do I want/expect?

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) A honest conversation where I'm told that I need to back off a bit to make her feel comfortable

Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Pulling away suddenly and harshly without any explanation

In the long run it is better for her to tell you clearly (in the only way she can) that she isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want to be in. (Hmmm... . having my own PI moment, as I'm in a r/s where I get more of the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) than the  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) version. But I digress. Perhaps I'll have to start my own thread about this later, and probably on the dating board)

That's a good way to put it, Grey Kitty.  After I posted today, I thought about what I said about her possibly being PD, and I thought, man, that was not right for me to say.  It shows I'm focusing on her and not me.  She's doing what she's gotta do.  I'm projecting my pain, blaming her for not being satisfactory to me. 

I was also thinking, where I may have made a crucial error is by confusing being *single* with being *available*.  They are not the same thing. She said she was single, but that doesn't mean she's available.

I should admit, too, that I think I opened up more than she did, and that was also a mistake.  I suffocated her with details of my life she probably wish she hadn't known.  It's just so dang hard, man, dealing with feelings.  I wanted to explain my point of view, but I did so in the wrong way.  Ugh... .
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« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2013, 12:06:22 PM »

Ah well... . chalk it up as a learning experience.

And be glad you did figure it out with somebody who was single but not really available--you could have made a mess out of something with a lot more potential!
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« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2013, 02:42:36 AM »

Excerpt
confusing being *single* with being *available*.

Wise words.

I like reading about relationships and emotional maturity.  I think many people can't tell the difference or are unclear how to discern what it really means to be emotionally available and identify what they really need in a partner to find a healthy fit.

Trying to teach myself this stuff has really helped to limit the wrong kind of person from my life and to be more open to the right kind of person.

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« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2013, 12:30:48 AM »

A good few weeks have passed since my last post, and a lot of discoveries have been made.  I finally have all the details I needed to know about this foreclosure - how it will affect me, when I will be moving, etc.  I've also made peace with a lot of the emotional stuff that comes with that.  I'm ready to move, basically.

As for the old/new girl, that interest has all but completely died.  I'm pretty sure that us reuniting in person isn't going to happen, for various reasons.  It's hard to explain, I'm not sure if it matters.  But I will say this: when I was presented that fork in the road which I wrote about in previous entries in this thread, I should have pulled away.  It was my first intuition, and I should have went with it.  Perhaps then I wouldn't have held onto to something that really wasn't there at that time, something I couldn't act on and still can't.  It added stress to the courtship process.  In a way, I kick myself, because I believed it sullied what could have been an amazing reunion, but life goes on.

As the interest began to fizzle I had a hard time letting go.  It took time, virtual (online) space apart, her backing away, and some long conversations with a friend to really see what was happening - how I'd reacted to the situation from the beginning, and why I clung on.  A lot of it stems from codependency, as much as I believe I overcame that.  She was/is a familiar voice that brought great memories and feelings, however, she is from a time in my life when I was heavily codependent.  In a way, the reconnection was like a backdoor virus that breached some boundary firewalls.  Even though I am more sensitive to codependency now, more aware of it, once I was sucked in I was helplessly trapped, when instead, like I already said, I should have backed off for a while.

So as I come out of the fantasy (which persists to a degree but is fading), I look back on the past few months and notice some similarities between how I, a Non, acting during that and how I'd behaved during my stint with uBPDx some 4 years ago.  The one that really sticks out for me is this belief that I somehow created this new artificial self.  It's hard to describe. 

Well, I guess a good point to start with IS the fantasy.  Again, I was whisked away, thinking of how great life would be once I finally turned that last corner.  I should say, though, that this was much different in that with uBPDx it seemed a new corner presented itself at least once a day, where as with this it was just one big corner, being me finally able to break free to meet her.  The fantasy consumed me, changed me, although it didn't quite break me like it did with uBPDx. 

This part I'm not really sure how to explain.  Maybe it's not a new self, but it felt like one.  The anxiety produced from the ordeal created this strange form of stress.  It affected my mentality.  Man, so hard to describe.  It's like I wasn't here, that all that mattered to me was what was in my head.  I wish I could describe this better!

Anyway, maybe after some more thought I can put something sensible together and post it, but for now I think it's safe to say that I'm recovering from a relationship that was completely psychological, never even saw her, and it's going fairly well and am a bit dumbstruck as to how I reacted throughout.

Have a good day.
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« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2013, 11:32:51 AM »

After a good sleep I think I can better describe what I mean to say.  It's like the idea of the trinity, 2 coming together to become 1.  It kinda happened in this scenario, really fast, maybe because of the great history we shared and all the great things she was saying in the moment.  Once it's created, this mental/emotional image of the two of us having a good time, being open with each other, that image became what I negotiated with, not just between she and I, but between me and myself as well.  It became a priority. 

As I negotiated with this image in my head, negotiating with the real her and real me just didn't happen.  For example, I made a commitment that when I was ready I would come and see her.  I don't think the real her accepted that commitment, but the one in my head did.  And the stuff I would say to her wasn't coming from the real me, sensible me, but from that image.  It was like a switch flipped and I because someone else, which perhaps explains that moment of warmth that I mentioned earlier. 

In retrospect, I continue to be amazed at the self-discoveries I make of being human, dealing with feelings and other people.  I just need to start sticking to my guns.
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« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 12:24:36 PM »

A good few weeks have passed since my last post, and a lot of discoveries have been made.  I finally have all the details I needed to know about this foreclosure - how it will affect me, when I will be moving, etc.  I've also made peace with a lot of the emotional stuff that comes with that.  I'm ready to move, basically.

As for the old/new girl, that interest has all but completely died.  I'm pretty sure that us reuniting in person isn't going to happen, for various reasons.  It's hard to explain, I'm not sure if it matters.  But I will say this: when I was presented that fork in the road which I wrote about in previous entries in this thread, I should have pulled away.  It was my first intuition, and I should have went with it.  Perhaps then I wouldn't have held onto to something that really wasn't there at that time, something I couldn't act on and still can't.  It added stress to the courtship process.  In a way, I kick myself, because I believed it sullied what could have been an amazing reunion, but life goes on.

As the interest began to fizzle I had a hard time letting go.  It took time, virtual (online) space apart, her backing away, and some long conversations with a friend to really see what was happening - how I'd reacted to the situation from the beginning, and why I clung on.  A lot of it stems from codependency, as much as I believe I overcame that.  She was/is a familiar voice that brought great memories and feelings, however, she is from a time in my life when I was heavily codependent.  In a way, the reconnection was like a backdoor virus that breached some boundary firewalls.  Even though I am more sensitive to codependency now, more aware of it, once I was sucked in I was helplessly trapped, when instead, like I already said, I should have backed off for a while.

So as I come out of the fantasy (which persists to a degree but is fading), I look back on the past few months and notice some similarities between how I, a Non, acting during that and how I'd behaved during my stint with uBPDx some 4 years ago.  The one that really sticks out for me is this belief that I somehow created this new artificial self.  It's hard to describe. 

Well, I guess a good point to start with IS the fantasy.  Again, I was whisked away, thinking of how great life would be once I finally turned that last corner.  I should say, though, that this was much different in that with uBPDx it seemed a new corner presented itself at least once a day, where as with this it was just one big corner, being me finally able to break free to meet her.  The fantasy consumed me, changed me, although it didn't quite break me like it did with uBPDx. 

This part I'm not really sure how to explain.  Maybe it's not a new self, but it felt like one.  The anxiety produced from the ordeal created this strange form of stress.  It affected my mentality.  Man, so hard to describe. 

Anyway, maybe after some more thought I can put something sensible together and post it, but for now I think it's safe to say that I'm recovering from a relationship that was completely psychological, never even saw her, and it's going fairly well and am a bit dumbstruck as to how I reacted throughout.

Have a good day.

DD, that was really well written. I completely understand what you're talking about. Especially this:
Excerpt
It's like I wasn't here, that all that mattered to me was what was in my head

I reconnected with an old bf after divorcing N/BPDxh and this exact scenario happened to me. Old bf was long distance, too. When I realized how unhealthy things were, the withdrawal was devastating. I've never withdrawn from drugs, but that's what it felt like to unplug from the fantasy.

It was absolutely critical for me to go through that, tho. When I started dating someone (going on 8 months now), I knew how to tell the difference between what was fantasy and what was real. There is no fantasy with this r/s, and I think that makes it possible for me to have real intimacy.
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2013, 09:29:29 PM »

In order to help me turn the page, I'm writing a goodbye letter, doing so here.  Sharing it with her would probably be pointless, but I gotta get this off my chest:

":)ear M,

Reconnecting after so many years was simply amazing.  The wonderful compliments you shared about how you felt back then validated not only my feelings from then, but many hunches that accumulated over the years.  You missed me as I have missed you.  It was so great to know that you're still out there thinking of me after all this time.  It unlocked a part of me that laid dormant for years.

As you continued to be sweet and kind it pulled me in a direction I desperately wanted to travel, but could not.  I should have backed away to take care of my own business, but didn't.  You sounded so sad and lonely that it broke my heart.  I thought that if I stuck around then maybe I could keep making you smile, brightening your day in subtle ways: a text, a pic of flowers, a poem.   

Unfortunately, time and distance have a way of casting doubt, creating miscommunication, which burdens the spirit.  You shared that you are in a dark place right now, unhappy with life.  As I'm not aware of the exact cause, I am still sorry that your life took the turns that got you to this point.  Hopefully you will find your way out, because that time we were able to communicate openly did brighten those days for me.  That's why it was so hard for me to let go.

So I'm letting go, to take care of myself again.  Your problems are not mine for me to solve, nor should I impose a desire to see you when you're not available.  Perhaps hearing from me had a simlar effect on you, because you did state that you'd like to meet, seemed happy, but apparantly it was temporary.  After a while, I could tell something was wrong, that you're struggling with something incomprehensible by me from so far away.  If my intentions about us were miscommunicated over the past few months, I apologize.  I just wanted to see you again, something I'd longed to do after all these years.

Thank you for being honest, open, and reminding me of that great time we shared.

Yours Truly,

D"
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« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2013, 08:48:14 PM »

I have no answers, only questions. Could it be possible that the letter allows you to accept that it was all a construction, yours to begin with? The letter sounds a bit like a narration in a story. In the film of life, you would be the narrator. As a person, she is absent and only lives in as a character.

I have no answer, as I am wondering (in my case) what my emotions represent. I wrote a letter earlier today that I will not send. What if due to a lack of communication and immaturity there never was anything to begin with? How would you react if I told you that I went to the butcher to buy flowers... . You would probably advise me to go to a flower shop and the story would end there. I am no expert in the subject of love but may be it is based on a mutual understanding and communication. Once the story telling starts it is not between two people any more ... .

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« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2013, 10:36:13 PM »

I have no answers, only questions. Could it be possible that the letter allows you to accept that it was all a construction, yours to begin with? The letter sounds a bit like a narration in a story. In the film of life, you would be the narrator. As a person, she is absent and only lives in as a character.

I have no answer, as I am wondering (in my case) what my emotions represent. I wrote a letter earlier today that I will not send. What if due to a lack of communication and immaturity there never was anything to begin with? How would you react if I told you that I went to the butcher to buy flowers... . You would probably advise me to go to a flower shop and the story would end there. I am no expert in the subject of love but may be it is based on a mutual understanding and communication. Once the story telling starts it is not between two people any more ... .

As for me, and I'm sure many others, writing things out helps process, or maybe expel the feelings being expressed.  It's more than just writing, for me, though, it takes at least 1 good night's sleep to really let it process.  I used to write a lot more, about more trivial matters, and I always feel better afterward.  That's why I like coming here and writing out the mess that's in my head.  It also helps to have others respond, helps validate how I feel, and I appreciate everyone's input.

It's true, though, that it seems like a story narration.  Are any 2 people ever on the same page, living the same story?  Maybe during moments, like people at a sporting event.  Everyone is watching the same thing, maybe rooting for a different team, but still taking in the event in the moment.  Then the moment is over and everyone goes their seperate way, some people happy that their team won, others upset that theirs lost. 

In the context of relationships, man, that is so tough.  I am coming out of a long term one right now, and wonder if we were ever fully on the same page.  Maybe that's where compromise comes in.  We accept that the other has different needs, even if we don't understand or agree.  I guess as long as the compromise isn't too overwhelming for the other, then they are on the same page.

For this particular scenario in which I wrote this letter, I would say we were on the same page for a while, but I held on too long.  Who knows, things may change, she may come around.  Maybe I am willing to try too hard, make too much compromise, more than she.  I really don't know.  But something is not adding up, and I'm okay with that now, maybe not 100%, but much more than I was a week or so ago.  The thought of things going bad, for lack of better term, popped in my head a while ago, it just takes time to accept it on an emotional level for me.  At any rate, thanks for the response.
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« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2013, 01:10:52 PM »

Expressing and receiving validation are so fundamental to our human nature. Regarding relationships, I am hopeful that two people can be on the same page. In the past, I trusted him and I filled the blanks, I wrote the story instead of being in it.

I am glad that you are feeling ok and wish you well.
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« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2013, 02:25:10 PM »

Nice letter!
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« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2013, 01:00:40 PM »

So the summer has ended, the foreclosure has come and gone, I am now moved, and am truly single for the first time in a very long time.  Despite my desire to completely remove myself from the old/new girl, I hung around and stayed in contact, nothing too serious for a while.  Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

Again, as i probably have mentioned numerous times in this thread, I am completely dumbfounded as to how I let this scenario unfold to the point where I let this girl into my head and heart so deeply.  It's so crazy, it's like a switch just flipped and a lot of work I had done to recover from my uBPDx 4 years ago - recognizing and enforcing boundaries, ending the ruminating, healing, basically - became unraveled.  Not completely, but enough for this to hurt.

I do believe, although she hasn't come out and said it, that she is hung up on someone, courting them, being courted, etc.  It's not my business, and I'm trying not to care about it, but I believe that's the case.  I also believe, though, that she may fear me, fear seeing me... .   I just don't know.  I sense an inferiority complex of some sort, she saying that I would not be impressed by her on more than one occasion.  At any rate, I'm just trying to flush this out of my system, it's really myself who I need to worry about the most. 

Guuuuh... . I'm tired of these romantic situations ending up like this.  It's ridiculous.  And it's all in my head.  Reading this thread over from the beginning helps.  I think it's a good idea to write this stuff out as it happens, to get a timeline of events and put things into perspective.
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« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2013, 08:54:53 PM »

I hear ya!

I'm just all about staying single myself right now, not even casual dating or anything. Spending the time instead working on myself, and the questions I've asked myself before and need to ask again--"why am I attracted to this kind of stuff?" etc.

Maybe one of the answers is learning how to be friends with people instead. That's an important part of an intimate relationship anyway.
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« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2013, 09:35:32 PM »

Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

What was going on for you that made you reach out to her?
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« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2013, 07:22:28 PM »

Then, finally, right before the big move, I brought up visiting her again, and got no response.

What was going on for you that made you reach out to her?

We'd been playing games online and flirting a bit, and I gave it one last try.  A part of me is grieving, and a part of me says you only live once.  So I tried.  I dunno.  Really hard to explain the dynamic, but definitely not an open communication type of one.  More like serious cat and mouse.  At any rate, yeah, it's in my head and I gotta just deal with it.
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« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2013, 11:36:41 AM »

I finally unfriended the old/new girl from Facebook.  It is a sad day for me.  I think that's part of my problem, I didn't want to mourn the loss of someone who I felt so strongly for.  She's not dead, but lost from my life, forever even.  That is such a strange thought to me.  And it's so crazy to me how all these feelings got ramped up and I never even saw her in person. 
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