The rescuer in me is unleashed, again

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I wasn't sure how to title this one exactly, but here are the details:

A few weeks ago I reconnected with an old love interest from about 15 years ago through Facebook.  It's been a while since I had to do any "head maintanance", so to speak, since I've pretty much recovered from my strange relationship with BPDex some 3-4 years ago, but I still wondered "Is this right? Should I do this?".

I'll do my best to sum up the emotional history here, because it is pertinent, but I tend to ramble, so bear with me.  Basically, we met online around 97/98 and hit it off pretty well.  Problem was, I was single, she wasn't.  She was engaged to the father of her daughter.  She expressed displeasure of her relationship, and I was a naive lonely rescuer.  I should also mention that she lived far away from me, at least 600 miles, so for a long time we didn't get to meet in person.

Then, one weekend, after over a year of emails, chatting, online flirting, we did meet, and it went pretty much as one would expect.  I would say we were in love which each other, but with the disclaimer that I was compromising a lot of myself, as per codepency issues.  There's no doubt that with different circumstances we would have taken a serious shot at a relationship.  But alas, the interest dwindled and died due to her unwillingness to leave her man, and mine to wait any longer.  It rocked me hard, took a while to get over.  I will honestly say right here and now that it's the closest thing I ever felt to a potentially fully compatible relationship, again, if she was actually available to enter one with to explore.  In other words, she was very important to me on a emotional level, maybe the most ever as far as gf/bf r/s's go.

After years and years I never forgot about her.  Every year or 2 I'd Google her name, or check Facebook.  Nothing came up until about a month ago when I tried and discovered her Facebook account.  Upon discovery, it was quite obvious that she was no longer married.  Her posts, and even her FB cover (the banner at the top of every FB profile page) transmitted clear as day to onlookers that she's on the mend from a relationship.  I wasn't sure if it was her now ex-husband, or someone else, but I at least knew she wasn't married (said so right in her cover).  But still, like I mentioned a few paragraphs above, I wondered if it was right.  In fact, it could go horribly wrong, but I had to reach out.

Sure enough, she's now single, and we had quite the emotional reunion.  Again, this all occured on FB and through texts, phone, etc.  When I say emotional, I don't necessarily mean in a good way.  Getting to that... .  

After the "Hey, how's it going.  Man, it's been so long" casual niceties, we got down to personal brass tax.  She basically admitted to me deep regret over her "poor choice" of sticking with her husband who left her for another woman 4 years ago, and told me she always loved me more than he.  I was blown away.  I mean, yes, they're just words, very easy to say over FB, etc, but I believe her.  She never lied to me in the past, and, for the record, I sense no BPD in retrospect, after having been educated and gone through that mill years later.  So, for the context of this post, BPD is not my concern.

In a way, I felt reassured, that I was right all along, that we were in love (then), but due to proximity issues and the pressure of satisfying a perceived happy mother/father/daughter home life she just couldn't bring herself to leave him.  I don't necessarily blame her.  It would have been risky, although I was willing to make the move. 

As the conversation transpired over the course of a few days, it finally reached a boiling point.  She didn't just admit her poor choice, but also that this reunion was impacting her deeply (as it was, I).  I don't remember the exact conversation, but a mental fork in the road presented itself:  I either had to digress back to casual conversation, or continue to get "emotional" with her.  I chose the latter.

Again, I don't remember the exact conversation, but I began insinuating my feelings for her.  They are strong, very strong.  But I'm not a fool.  I even thought to myself, ":)ave, you're a rescuer, and although the circumstances are different now, the emotional pieces (long lost lover reappears after many years, validating deep feelings of love that ended in pain long ago, the perfect storybook conclusion, if you will) are stacked in such a way that will trigger the beast".  After weighing it out, I decided that the risk was worth the potential payoff if things go well.

Now, here's where it gets weird.  After making this decision, and basically opening up full throttle, this deep warmth came over my body.  It was like someone tapped my head and poured warm water into my body, and it ran down all the way to my toes.  I don't know how to explain it.  My best stab is to say that it was my body reacting to the reality of it all; the new beginning, stepping back into a continuum that houses painful feelings.  Logically, I am over the past of 15 years ago.  What happened happened, it was so long ago, and I'd made ammends with it over the years.  But emotions aren't logical.  Emotional memory banks care not for the rationalization of the mind.

Since that day - the day of warmth let's call it - my entire being has been hammerlocked on this woman.  The problem is, I'm not in a position as of today to really do anything about it.  There are things going on that need tending, serious formalities: my house is about to foreclose, will probably declare bankruptcy and move back home after 12 years.  These are things I've been dealing with for months, before the reunion.

When I say hammerlocked, I mean that while I sit here in my hometown, even farther away from her than before, I feel like I'm not here.  The rescuer in me is propelling me in a new direction, mentally, and I can't control it.  I'm not living in the now, but in the future.

Anyway, we've been in contact for about a month now, and I'm confident that when the time comes, some serious intheflesh reunionship is going to transpire.  But, again, I am no fool.  Anything can happen between now and then.  The foreclosure could get messy and take longer than expected.  I honestly want to lose this house, give it up and be done with it, but my ex is also involved (a large reason the foreclosure mess even exists to begin with, but 20-20 hindsight does no good at this point other than solidify my conviction in the matter) and she might fight for it.  I don't think she will, we discussed it at length, but she may have a change of heart.  Bottom line: there are numerous factors that could impede this seemingly wonderful possible reunion with a girl I really admire, and maybe even nullify it completely. 

Like I say, my head knows this, but my heart is having trouble maintaining.  My potential partner to be realizes what's going on, and is herself taking precautions.  She is no fool, either.  Basically, although there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm feeling the worst-case-scenario end of the spectrum without it even taking place.  Chalk it up to being realistic, or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Finally, there is the rescuer dynamic that I am always considerate of.  I this a bona fide open door, or is the rescuer too hopeful?  What if she's not ready for a new relationship?   Her divorce occured 4 years ago, but she's 4 months out of a different r/s that ended badly, to her detrimant.  I want this to work so much that I'm willing to wait until she's ready, or at least thinks she is.  We haven't gotten to that point, and probably won't until my situation clears up a bit.

I know that the right thing to do is be patient and let things happen, the answers will eventually come.  There's just so much going on right now, coupled with this reunion, that I find myself in a mixed state of fluctuating anxiety and depression.  I need strength!  Please, someone tell me that I'm not being a complete fool here, or that I am!

[David Dare]

I wasn't sure how to title this one exactly, but here are the details:

A few weeks ago I reconnected with an old love interest from about 15 years ago through Facebook.  It's been a while since I had to do any "head maintanance", so to speak, since I've pretty much recovered from my strange relationship with BPDex some 3-4 years ago, but I still wondered "Is this right? Should I do this?".

I'll do my best to sum up the emotional history here, because it is pertinent, but I tend to ramble, so bear with me.  Basically, we met online around 97/98 and hit it off pretty well.  Problem was, I was single, she wasn't.  She was engaged to the father of her daughter.  She expressed displeasure of her relationship, and I was a naive lonely rescuer.  I should also mention that she lived far away from me, at least 600 miles, so for a long time we didn't get to meet in person.

Then, one weekend, after over a year of emails, chatting, online flirting, we did meet, and it went pretty much as one would expect.  I would say we were in love which each other, but with the disclaimer that I was compromising a lot of myself, as per codepency issues.  There's no doubt that with different circumstances we would have taken a serious shot at a relationship.  But alas, the interest dwindled and died due to her unwillingness to leave her man, and mine to wait any longer.  It rocked me hard, took a while to get over.  I will honestly say right here and now that it's the closest thing I ever felt to a potentially fully compatible relationship, again, if she was actually available to enter one with to explore.  In other words, she was very important to me on a emotional level, maybe the most ever as far as gf/bf r/s's go.

After years and years I never forgot about her.  Every year or 2 I'd Google her name, or check Facebook.  Nothing came up until about a month ago when I tried and discovered her Facebook account.  Upon discovery, it was quite obvious that she was no longer married.  Her posts, and even her FB cover (the banner at the top of every FB profile page) transmitted clear as day to onlookers that she's on the mend from a relationship.  I wasn't sure if it was her now ex-husband, or someone else, but I at least knew she wasn't married (said so right in her cover).  But still, like I mentioned a few paragraphs above, I wondered if it was right.  In fact, it could go horribly wrong, but I had to reach out.

Sure enough, she's now single, and we had quite the emotional reunion.  Again, this all occured on FB and through texts, phone, etc.  When I say emotional, I don't necessarily mean in a good way.  Getting to that... .  

After the "Hey, how's it going.  Man, it's been so long" casual niceties, we got down to personal brass tax.  She basically admitted to me deep regret over her "poor choice" of sticking with her husband who left her for another woman 4 years ago, and told me she always loved me more than he.  I was blown away.  I mean, yes, they're just words, very easy to say over FB, etc, but I believe her.  She never lied to me in the past, and, for the record, I sense no BPD in retrospect, after having been educated and gone through that mill years later.  So, for the context of this post, BPD is not my concern.

In a way, I felt reassured, that I was right all along, that we were in love (then), but due to proximity issues and the pressure of satisfying a perceived happy mother/father/daughter home life she just couldn't bring herself to leave him.  I don't necessarily blame her.  It would have been risky, although I was willing to make the move. 

As the conversation transpired over the course of a few days, it finally reached a boiling point.  She didn't just admit her poor choice, but also that this reunion was impacting her deeply (as it was, I).  I don't remember the exact conversation, but a mental fork in the road presented itself:  I either had to digress back to casual conversation, or continue to get "emotional" with her.  I chose the latter.

Again, I don't remember the exact conversation, but I began insinuating my feelings for her.  They are strong, very strong.  But I'm not a fool.  I even thought to myself, ":)ave, you're a rescuer, and although the circumstances are different now, the emotional pieces (long lost lover reappears after many years, validating deep feelings of love that ended in pain long ago, the perfect storybook conclusion, if you will) are stacked in such a way that will trigger the beast".  After weighing it out, I decided that the risk was worth the potential payoff if things go well.

Now, here's where it gets weird.  After making this decision, and basically opening up full throttle, this deep warmth came over my body.  It was like someone tapped my head and poured warm water into my body, and it ran down all the way to my toes.  I don't know how to explain it.  My best stab is to say that it was my body reacting to the reality of it all; the new beginning, stepping back into a continuum that houses painful feelings.  Logically, I am over the past of 15 years ago.  What happened happened, it was so long ago, and I'd made ammends with it over the years.  But emotions aren't logical.  Emotional memory banks care not for the rationalization of the mind.

Since that day - the day of warmth let's call it - my entire being has been hammerlocked on this woman.  The problem is, I'm not in a position as of today to really do anything about it.  There are things going on that need tending, serious formalities: my house is about to foreclose, will probably declare bankruptcy and move back home after 12 years.  These are things I've been dealing with for months, before the reunion.

When I say hammerlocked, I mean that while I sit here in my hometown, even farther away from her than before, I feel like I'm not here.  The rescuer in me is propelling me in a new direction, mentally, and I can't control it.  I'm not living in the now, but in the future.

Anyway, we've been in contact for about a month now, and I'm confident that when the time comes, some serious intheflesh reunionship is going to transpire.  But, again, I am no fool.  Anything can happen between now and then.  The foreclosure could get messy and take longer than expected.  I honestly want to lose this house, give it up and be done with it, but my ex is also involved (a large reason the foreclosure mess even exists to begin with, but 20-20 hindsight does no good at this point other than solidify my conviction in the matter) and she might fight for it.  I don't think she will, we discussed it at length, but she may have a change of heart.  Bottom line: there are numerous factors that could impede this seemingly wonderful possible reunion with a girl I really admire, and maybe even nullify it completely. 

Like I say, my head knows this, but my heart is having trouble maintaining.  My potential partner to be realizes what's going on, and is herself taking precautions.  She is no fool, either.  Basically, although there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm feeling the worst-case-scenario end of the spectrum without it even taking place.  Chalk it up to being realistic, or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Finally, there is the rescuer dynamic that I am always considerate of.  I this a bona fide open door, or is the rescuer too hopeful?  What if she's not ready for a new relationship?   Her divorce occured 4 years ago, but she's 4 months out of a different r/s that ended badly, to her detrimant.  I want this to work so much that I'm willing to wait until she's ready, or at least thinks she is.  We haven't gotten to that point, and probably won't until my situation clears up a bit.

I know that the right thing to do is be patient and let things happen, the answers will eventually come.  There's just so much going on right now, coupled with this reunion, that I find myself in a mixed state of fluctuating anxiety and depression.  I need strength!  Please, someone tell me that I'm not being a complete fool here, or that I am!

[marbleloser]

It's sounds like you need to rescue yourself at this point.You've got alot going on and she probably has some things she needs to work on herself as well,being just 4 months out of a RS. She's filling a need in you right now.Someone familiar that you've shared a past with.Nothing wrong with that,but something kept you two apart in the past.She chose him over you.Myself,I wouldn't want to play second fiddle to someone again.

How about you continue to talk to her,but work on your side of the street for now and allow her to work on hers?

If she's truly interested,and not just needy,she'll wait for you.If she starts pushing you to act or starts seeing other people,you'll know it wasn't meant to be.

[David Dare]

Thanks, I needed to hear/read that.  I agree.  Just so hard to control these feelings.  Thanks again.

[marbleloser]

You're welcome! You've got some distance between you two and that in itself is a hurdle to get over.Use it to your advantage and work on your own issues at the moment.If you were closer,your urge to rescue would put her needs above your own and right now,you have a full plate of your own needs.

[David Dare]

What resonated most with me is the part about being second fiddle.  That is so true, and part of the pain I feel, or perhaps of the memory from back in the day.  It's all real again, and I refuse to play that part.

[David Dare]

Well, after a couple days to think about it, and a couple more conversations with this girl, I need to be brutally honest.  Something just isn't right here, not adding up. 

For starters, she is depressed.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think she's... .  Not sure.  Out of control?  Not living a healthy lifestyle?  I don't know for sure, but something's just not adding up.

The problem for me is that I feel the projection going on, think it in my head.  I can't fix her, but I just want to see her again.  This is taking a turn for the worse for me, and I can't stop thinking about it.  Darn you, Facebook.  Darn these long distance r/s's.  Darn not being able to be omnipresent so I don't have to guess at things I'm not privy to.  Darn it, darn it, darn it.

[Maryiscontrary]

Let me play devils advocate and lets assume she is all peachy and totally together . David, if you feel anxiety and unease, you are bringing this to the table,is that fair for her?

Now, probably in reality, this anxiety is probably an important internal signal that something is not right with the sitation. A decent relationship is not about discomfort. Plus, you have a plateful yourself.

[MaybeSo]

So, being that this is personal inventory... .

It would be helpful to take some deep breaths and center yourself, and with compassion, be curious about you.

Damn Facebook, damn long distance, etc... .  Puts everything outside of you.

Starting with long distance and FB... .  these were choices you made. I've read a lot about long distance prospects being comfortable when we are emotionally unavailable... .  the distance, the longing, the geography illicits longings and romance but no real intimacy. Facebook is also a superficial and comfortable way to make pseudo-connections or Re-connections. Also, at 4 months out of a difficult relationship, she isn't going to be all there, thats normal, though a

romance with a long lost love maybe just the right distraction to numb the pain.

Maybe YOU just aren't ready yet ... .  for a relationship? And are just testing the waters?

I wouldn't get too off track on what might or might not be wrong with her... .  that's going down

another unproductive road.

What do you want? If you want a relationship (do you?) choose an available person or pursue those most likely to be available,  and make yourself available, too.

Neither one of you are really available right now, correct?

[Rubies]

So, being that this is personal inventory... .

It would be helpful to take some deep breaths and center yourself, and with compassion, be curious about you.

Damn Facebook, damn long distance, etc... .  Puts everything outside of you.

Starting with long distance and FB... .  these were choices you made. I've read a lot about long distance prospects being comfortable when we are emotionally unavailable... .  the distance, the longing, the geography illicits longings and romance but no real intimacy. Facebook is also a superficial and comfortable way to make pseudo-connections or Re-connections. Also, at 4 months out of a difficult relationship, she isn't going to be all there, thats normal, though a

romance with a long lost love maybe just the right distraction to numb the pain.

Maybe YOU just aren't ready yet ... .  for a relationship? And are just testing the waters?

I wouldn't get too off track on what might or might not be wrong with her... .  that's going down

another unproductive road.

What do you want? If you want a relationship (do you?) choose an available person or pursue those most likely to be available,  and make yourself available, too.

Neither one of you are really available right now, correct?

I am thoroughly in agreement.  What are you seeking with your choices?  Take your heart and your feelings, shove them into your belly and digest them.  Perhaps you need to take a Road Trip.

I don't think it's unreasonable in your situation to tell her at some point in person you would like to pursue a real relationship with her, but you both have unfinished business before either can go there.  Is she interested in working toward being relationship ready?

Take it slow.

[David Dare]

Thanks for the responses, Maryiscontrary, MaybeSo and Rubies.  You are all correct, and it's true, I'm not in a good place right now.  Not the worst place, but not a good one either. 

For me, I have a bunch going on that I already mentioned.  On a more personal level, I'm tyring to regulate my sleep cycle and it's not working.  I've taken valerian root and melatonin, and I end up just laying in bed, rolling around.  For me, that is my core goal.  I need to be waking up in the morning so I can go about my day and start taking care of business, so to speak, for me.  It's distressing.  I've always been a night owl, and am ready to change that, just having a hard time doing so.  Plus, having all this free time to just lay in bed and think doesn't help.  I try to distract myself, but maybe I'm depressed right now as nothing seems to be that interesting. 

As for Facebook and the long distance courting, whathaveyou, there's no doubt in my mind that if I could somehow visit her right now a lot of questions would be answered.  But I can't, and I accept that.  What's bothering me is the addictiveness of it.  It's like I'm in love and can't shut it off.  I haven't done the long distance thing in about 13 years.  I'm mentally not equipped to deal with it. 

So, in the meantime I chat with her spuradically now and then, when the opportunity is there.  I don't want to go completely silent, ala "Just be patient and I'll get in touch when this is through".  That scares me. 

What I want to hear is that she will wait for me to be avaialable, but I can't ask that.  I don't know how long this forclosure will take, and, due to the long distance aspect, I'm not willing to make stipulations.  The framework now is, when I get there I will, and in the meantime there are no obligations.

A lot of my worry is conjured in my head, due to info gaps, long distance.  I have no idea what she does in her free time, and I it's really not my business, especially if she's defensive after her breakup.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

[GreenMango]

You write well and explain the nuances of how you are feeling clearly.

When you wrote about the year long emotional affair along time ago I have to admit I raised an eyebrow - not judging just looking at some things that present an area of concern.

You don't have to have BPD to be emotionally unavailable for a relationship or to have some unrealistic fanatsies about relationships. 

Sometimes I wonder if the lost love fantasy is just a fantasy.  Kind of like fantasizing about winning the lottery and everything you'd do with the winnings. 

[David Dare]

Thank you, GreenMango. 

The lottery analogy is very accurate.  The first couple weeks of reconnecting, or few days maybe, it's a blur now, yes, there was a lot of that going on in my head, fantasizing of what could have been, and what could be.  We had some very open conversations, like it was the late 90's all over again.  Then, when it got to the point of me explaining my situation, how I am unavailable to come see her for the next few months, things digressed, mostly on her end.  Well, that's not true.  I, too, digressed, because I was losing focus.  We both digressed would be accurate. 

On my end, I think I'm more emotionally invested.  Perhaps I was cought up in the moment and let it overwhelm me.  I mention the *day of warmth* because it freaked me out.  I took it as a warning, that I had gone to far, opened up too much.  It's hard then when she is crying, admitting her feelings, when I myself long to see her again. 

The way I feel now is that I made my case about keeping the future open, and I believe she accepts it, but that's all it is, an agreement that if/when the time comes she will welcome me for a visit. That's it: a visit.  It doesn't mean anything beyond that, and I am trying to reel myself back in emotionally.  Honestly, I'm getting there, slowly, but what should be the end game, indifference?  Should that be how I feel?  Like you mention, maybe she is emotionally unavailable.  Maybe she's always been that way.  She was available for me, back in the day when things were hot an heavy, but like you mention, long distance relationships have a way of propping up the fantasy, making it seem real.

Here's a kernel of contention that has been messing with my mind, probably the deepest concern I have.  If she was willing to maintain a LD r/s with me then, while she was engaged to me married, then a likelihood that she is seeing someone now exists.  I don't feel in a position to ask, not yet.

[GreenMango]

Maybe like Maybeso mentioned you both might be unavailable right now.

I'm not sure how how you are supposed to feel.  They way you explained that rush of warmth was pretty observant though.

I'm not sure why you can't ask her if she's seeing anyone.  It would seem like apretty good question to ask just straight forward in regards to how invested you get.  Pretty important from the sound of it.

What's the worst that will happen?  You won't be together?  You aren't together now.  Doesn't sound like things would be much different is what I'm trying to say here.

[David Dare]

Well, I did ask, not quite that directly, but more along the lines of "If there's a reason I should stop this tell me now", to which she replied that she's not attracted to one guy that wants her, another guy she does want to be with uses her, and that she's not happy.  The way I interprit that is yes, there is a guy that she sees, but it's not what she wants it to be, or that it's her ex. 

I guess I neglected to mention this here because it hurts to admit.  The "she's not happy" part sounds oh so familiar.  Maybe she will never be happy.  That's why I say earlier that something is up, that she is living a destructive lifestyle, whether she's seeing a guy for sex, or whatever else it may be.  I haven't pressed too hard, because at this juncture I just don't think it'd matter, not until I myself am ready.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I am beginning to accept the full picture here.  It's no longer 1999.  Her life is on a path of her chosing.  I just don't want to jump to conclusion outright, and the circumstantial evidence at this point leads to a murky situation.

And, while I'm at it, it comes back to the title of this post: I let the rescuer out of the bag, and now I can't put it back in.  I knew this would happen, and I didn't protect myself.  I used her sadness as a reason to come forth and proclaim my feelings.  My feelings are true, though, but maybe should have been kept to myself.

The way I feel, honestly, is I'm enmeshed with the fantasy, and with it comes a hollow feeling.  And it happened so fast. 

EDIT: After reading this post and all the previous ones, I can see how I already did jump to conclusions.  I did get caught up in the moment and made strong assumptions.  LIke I said, the fork in the road presented itself, and I didn't just choose a path, I sprinted down it.  Dangnabbit, not good, not good at all.

Before this all happened, I was doing okay.  I was dealing with the foreclosure and everything and wasn't too concerned about much.  Now I'm depressed and not thinking clearly.  That really is what bother me the most, whether it's a consequence of what is happening now, or what happened back then, or both combined.  I feel like an idiot for letting this happen. 

[Rubies]

Just breathe.  Embrace and process the WHYs of your feelings.   They should mellow out in a week or two.  It's okay to have these feelings as long as you understand them.  Needing to take care of business, the external and internal, should slow you down enough to get your feet back under you.

[Maryiscontrary]

David. I am have trouble following your narrative. It seems thoughts are jumping back and forth. Healing starts when you can put together a cohesive narrative.

[David Dare]

I'll do my best to sum it up.  Reunited with a girl on through Facebook, as stated in the original post.  The reunion went pretty good, until I mentioned I am unavailable for a few months.  Problem was, I said a lot of stuff, opened up so to speak, about my feelings, and it ramped up my anxiety since I can't be with her, and I am dealing with personal stuff of my own (impending foreclosure, moving).

Here are the pertinent facts as I can best explain them:

She said she wants to see me again.

After a few weeks, she said there's a love interest in her life, but she feels used, unhappy.

She mentions more things that raise red flags, how she's unhappy, how she's miserable, just being overall very negative etc.

The reason this adds up to frustration for me is I don't want that, I don't want to persue someone who is out of control, so to speak, or seeing someone else.  If she's unhappy, she should make changes.  And, call it intuition, I think she's hiding something from me, that she is seeing someone who may perhaps be more serious that she is willing to admit, maybe to not hurt my feelings, I don't know.

So where that leaves me is in a state of regret, because I jumped the gun, mentally and emotionally, thinking that we could pick up where we left off many years ago.  She isn't the same person she was, and I created my own reality of her in my head that, IMO, was propelled by the rescuer side of me.  Yes, she has every right to live her life her own way, see people, etc, but I don't have to like it.  I could maybe deal with it better if I hadn't created this warped perception of her, my projected version of her.  And now, quite honestly, I wish I hadn't opened up that box, and it's making me sad, depressed.  What makes it twofold is the fact that I sensed this coming and still went forward anyway.  Writing this all out and sharing it here is helping me own up to the reality, and I appreciate everyone's input and willingness to read/listen.

[GreenMango]

You seem pretty aware of things early.  You got a little hopeful, but present.  That's good.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with what you actually followed through with following that rescuer thing.  I don't see you blindly following it.

Sometimes these things hurt or touch sensitive stuff regardless of how little involved you got.

[David Dare]

Thanks.  My feelings got way too strong way too fast.  And I'm thinking that maybe I had her pegged wrong all along, anyway.  Yes, we used to spend every night talking on the phone back in the day, and yes we do stay in contact now, although not on the same level as before, but maybe I was just blind the whole time, and that what I want is the happy fairy tale ending that simply isn't there.

[GreenMango]

I'm pretty convinced theres a happy ending.  It just doesn't always look like we expect or come right when we want it.

This could be a blessing in disguise.

One thing when I think about whether I'm attracted to someone now is to question and slow down because I wasn't doing a good job at it - which is obvious or I would be on these boards.  Picking with my pants, or with very little real time experience, and ignoring important to me stuff.   It just different now.  Less shiny but more comforting/calm.

It's gotta be more difficult if there was a connection before her, when say you werent as healthy as you are now or learned some tough lessons.  It would be easy to forget about that personal growth and experiences both ways.

Resilience and optimism - great ways to combat that crappy feeling.  Maybe try to reframe it a bit.  It helps me when I do this.

[David Dare]

You could be right.  I'm having trouble with patience.  I want her to be mine now, or to at least be at that stage where I am on my way there to see her.  I knew this was going to be tough, hence backing away a little bit.  And while I step back, my mind goes back and forth between optimism and and pessimism.  For what it's worth, our chats are generally positive, but I sense things.  Maybe I'm making it up.  Maybe she's being careful, too.  Again, patience will win the day.  Thanks again. 

[MaybeSo]

I'm noticing a preoccupation with it being all good, fairytale,wonderfulness right now,

Or all bad, a mistake, she's not what you thought... . your concerns come true

These are extremes.

When we are in this kind of head space, we are ripe for projecting a movie we have running in our own minds onto a person... . love of my life movie... . huge disappointment movie.

She doesn't have to be either.

As GM mentions... . it takes time. It takes time to really get to know a person and not just be

swept away with romantic/tragic projections (our own hopes and fears).

There is a real person there... . with qualities both good and bad you have no idea about yet.

with time you can let thus unfold organically and learn a lot about both her and yourself along

the way without attachment to the one or two stories in your head... . that is what relating is

about. If we get caught up in our projections we miss out on the stuff Of life.

Let it unfold. Learn about yourself along the way... .

[livednlearned]

What's bothering me is the addictiveness of it.  It's like I'm in love and can't shut it off. 

I had two similar episodes after leaving my N/BPDx. Both with boyfriends I hadn't seen for over a decade. Both long-distance. The first one truly felt like an addiction, and when I realized that he was still with the same woman he cheated on when he met me 12 years ago (even though he said they had broken up), I ended it. The withdrawal was awful. Then it happened again with a second bf, this time I had moved the needle a bit on my own healing, and recognized that he was just another fixer-upper. Lovely, kind, generous, I could talk to him for hours, he felt like a soul mate, but in the end, a deeply needy man who at age 44 had never married, never been in a long-term relationship, no kids, no pets.

Pay attention to that feeling you have that things don't add up. Some people can do long-distance relationships, but I don't think it's wise for someone getting out of a BPD relationship to even consider them. We are already so susceptible to magical thinking and projecting our own fantasies and desires onto people, only to be in for a rude surprise that we struggle to walk away from.

Take care of yourself. Let these feelings wash over you and pay attention to where they're coming from, and think of them like the Sirens in Homer's Odyssey that are luring you to ruin.

[David Dare]

I appreciate the responses, thank you. 

Yesterday I spent some time trying to figure out why I get so caught up in fantasy.  I think it's because I have a tremendous amount of boring time on my hands to think (seems it's been that way for most of my life), a vivid imagination, and never really had a truly fulfilling relationship in my life.  Other than the r/s with uBPDx, I had a 12-year r/s with someone who was good to me, but was more like a partnership.  We didn't have much in common, but it lasted a while.  This is the same girl who is connected with me to the house that is about to foreclose.

I apologize if this thread seems to jump around, but new realizations happen as the days go by, and my focus shifts.  I've been doing my best to focus more on me, and it helps.

I'm not ready to pass judgement.  I believe a lot of my stress is from conjured thoughts based on whims and hunches.

Like I stated, a lot of my problem is having too much time on my hands, but also the fact that we hit it off so well to begin with and nowvhas tapered off.  I don't mean to think 'what if', but in a way I feel strangled by the fact I couldn't and can't do anything right now.

I am still in deep contemplation of how I feel, and will write more when I make new discoveries.

[Maryiscontrary]

This is a good narrative. Keep it up.

[David Dare]

Okay, I will now do my best to outline the discoveries I made over the last few days.

For starters, I put effort into putting future possible love interest on hold mentally, and directed my attention back onto me and the here and now.  Although I consider my xgf an xgf, we do still live together, platonically, with no intimacy.  I'm fine with that.  Intimacy doesn't feel right for me at this point.  Just a reminder, we are evetually splitting once the bank repossesses this house.

Even though we are platonic, there is still a lot of sadness involved with living together, or even just in this house.  Every day I come home I have to look at this reminder of how we failed, how I failed.  Every time I look at her, I am filled with sadness by the fact that we both are going seperate ways.  Even though it's amicable, I still care about her, and she was very good to me.  We just aren't compatible, though, and the relationship needs to end.  Quite frankly, it should have ended a long time ago, but I fell into the comfort zone and stuck around.  The obligation became compounded when I signed onto the mortgage back in '06. 

I finally opened up about it, and it was a very sad, depressing conversation filled with tears.  I'm having a hard time letting go, dealing with what will be a big step move.  My head travels to the past, scanning all my mistakes, the self-judgmental devil keeping me under his foot.  There were a lot of good times at this house, in this area.  Many times laziness or complacency prevented me from striving for better work, better pay, and an overall feeling of accomplishment.  Part of the reason for that is where I live is kind of a boony town with not much to do and little business diversity.  I always managed to earn just enough to pay my half with a little left over for entertainment. 

The same can be said about socializing with friends and coworkers.  I don't like seeing everyone, them knowing I'm leaving.  I know they don't perceive me as a failure in the same why I see myself, but still I project a part of myself onto them.  I don't like answering questions about it, and try to change the subject whenever it comes up.

One strange thing I was able to identify, which relates to my vivid imagination I described earlier, is that in my head this dire situation is being played out to it's most dramatic.  I imagine things I should say to people, the final goodbye so to speak, and really, it's not the right way to think.  It's like I want to make a lasting impact, when in reality these people are living their own lives, and yes they might miss me or whatever, but it's not something I should worry about.  I have my own life to worry about.

So, after I had my emotional conversation with ex, and made observations about my mind that don't seem correct, I spent the entire weekend alone in my house as X had a super busy weekend out of town, and everyone else also had to work.  I sat around brooding, asking myself how did I let my life get this way, to where I sit around on a holiday weekend with nothing to do, nobody to hang around with.  It was sometime over the weekend when I looked at old photos I have and realized that for a long time stretching way back to childhood that I always put an emphasis on having a lot of friends.  It used to be a people pleaser problem, but somewhere along the way I realized that some poeple can't be pleased, are a bad influence, etc, and began taking more care as to whom I associated with.

The main problem I deduce from this having a lot of freinds problem is that it somehow became a measurement of success in my head.  As long as I had plenty of freinds to socialize (i.e. validate me) then there was no need to persue a career.  I literally have nothing but entry level restaurant experience (with a fraction of managorial experience) as a career.  Nothing wrong with that per se, expcept that I much smarter than that and could be doing much better off had I just buckled down and persued something.  This also messes with my head because now I will be starting over again and have nothing to fall back on, careerwise.  I do have a wonderfully supportive family who will be there for me, but the truth is I should be more independant than I now am, and it's frustrating.

Okay, so now let's bring future love interest back into the equation and address how that plays into it.

For starters, thoughts of her, of being with her, tremendously exascerbate the inner judgmental tormentor.  A while ago, around the *day of warmth*, I practically condemned myself to emotional death simply for not being available to act on those deeply felt impulses.  I had to accept that for the last 12 years I was in an unfulfilling relationship, that I *settled*, and it made me ill.  I don't want to think of X that way.  She's been very good to me, despite our incompatibility.  She hasn't been perfect, I'll admit, and neither have I, but I still see her in a positive light and care about her.  Maybe I'm having a hard time seperating love from admiration.  Obviously, seeing her everyday makes it hard to make that emotional seperation.  Enter the new/old girl into the picture and I was emotionally torn apart.

After making these realizations, I've somewhat tempered my fanciful daydreams of reconnection.  I'm trying my best to see it for what it really is, not what I want it to be.  It is so hard.  I'm starting to think that my imagination might be a form of deeply ingrained cognitive dissonance mechanism, my way of sidestepping reality in favor of a reality I want to believe in.  It's so easy to get caught up in that.  There are no immediate harmful ramifications, but a subtle peaceful bliss that works to justify the mechanism.  When the time comes to face the facts, though, it erupts with uncontrollable force.  So I'm doing my best to keep things real, to make no assumptions.

Again, thanks for listening/reading.

[livednlearned]

Your reflections are excellent, DD.

What I see from reading your last entry is that you're in a vulnerable place. Others can chime in, but I think that's the biggest red flag of all when it comes to starting new relationships. It sounds like you're figuring that out. When you sort out the self-confidence piece, and are in a better place psychologically, that's the time to be thinking about relationships.

When I met N/BPDx, my company was shutting down, I was in debt, and was living in a boony town too where employment was limited. I was too proud to move back with my parents (I was in my late 20s), and then N/BPDx came along and I hitched all my fantasies to him, totally ignoring the danger signs.

I really admire how honest you are about your vulnerability right now. It's huge.

[David Dare]

Thanks for the reply, livednlearned. 

I'm definitely not in a position to be courting a love interest, even one that has the familiarity of yester-year.  Thankfully, I think she gets the hint and isn't really pursuing me, or expects me to persue her, at least until I'm ready.  It's good that she recognizes that, and perhaps she is willing to wait.  Who knows?  There are no obligations, just lots of hope.

[David Dare]

I recently concluded that I need to leave my situation sooner than later.  As I contemplate the move from my house (which will be foreclosed upon, most likely driving me to bankruptcy) I feel sick to my stomach and head.  I knew this wouldn't be easy, but enough is enough.  I've been miserable far too long, and have been under so much stress that I'm numb to it.  It's not good.  I feel... . I don't even know anymore.

Enter the past/future girl into the mix.  Now that I'm actively planning this move, it seems silly that I let myself get whisked away in dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to feel attraction for someone, but to make it such a priority, against all odds, seems ridiculous.  That, too, factors into how I feel.  Just like wow, I let my mind go there again, kind of like how it did with xBPD.

Another thing I need to vent about while I'm at it is Facebook.  FB was never really a problem for me until this girl came along, or I came along to her, rather.  I never cared about people's posts, this and that, but now I feel like a snoop, and, conversely, being snooped on.  Snoop is a bad way to put it... . watched?  As I stated in previous posts, I told her not to feel obligated to me for any reason, because, really, I'm not available.  Our direct communications have slowed to a trickle, which kinda sucks, because I miss chatting with her, her attention.  As a result, the way things seem on FB now is "oh, did she post that about me?  Is she posting that for some other possible love interest?  Does she think I posted this for her?", etc.  I hate it.  I really don't want to be on there anymore, it messes with my head to much.  This feeling -- I don't know, paranoia?  jealousy?  Not sure what to call it -- reminds me of how I felt coming out of r/s with xBPD.  Yeah, it's not as intense as it was then, but it's still uncontrollable, a nuisance I would rather not have to think about at this point. 

At any rate, I'm tired of being miserable, tired of keeping myself distracted by numerous hobbies, tired of what's being said on FB, and the problem is I knew this would happen weeks ago when I decided to let myself *go there*.  Groan... .   Lord, give me strength!  I'm tired of the drama, of worrying about everybody else.  I just want this to be over.

[schwing]

Hi David Dare,

Your post title caught my eye because your issue is my issue as well.  

I recently concluded that I need to leave my situation sooner than later.  As I contemplate the move from my house (which will be foreclosed upon, most likely driving me to bankruptcy) I feel sick to my stomach and head.  I knew this wouldn't be easy, but enough is enough.  I've been miserable far too long, and have been under so much stress that I'm numb to it.  It's not good.  I feel... . I don't even know anymore.

Enter the past/future girl into the mix.  Now that I'm actively planning this move, it seems silly that I let myself get whisked away in dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to feel attraction for someone, but to make it such a priority, against all odds, seems ridiculous.  That, too, factors into how I feel.  Just like wow, I let my mind go there again, kind of like how it did with xBPD.

I don't think it's a coincidence that you juxtaposed these two scenarios: your difficult situation and your dreamy thoughts of reconnecting.  I find that for me, whenever I have a strong impulse to rescue someone else, it at least has something to do with my internal feelings of either being overwhelmed, or feeling distressed in some way.  For me, I interpret such feelings as a kind of projection: I'm feeling distressed but have difficulty either addressing my distress (i.e., codependency), or even admitting to myself that I am distressed, so I project those feelings outwards and find someone in distress to rescue.  I'm working on learning to rescue myself.

Another thing I need to vent about while I'm at it is Facebook.  FB was never really a problem for me until this girl came along, or I came along to her, rather.  I never cared about people's posts, this and that, but now I feel like a snoop, and, conversely, being snooped on.  Snoop is a bad way to put it... . watched?

I'm not a big fan of Facebook.  Personally I prefer analog social interaction because I find that kind of interaction more honest and telling.

But pay attention whenever you find your instincts triggered in the way that you describe.  I've found that for me, I've unconsciously picked up on something that might be familiar.  And if familiar or your familial background is mostly good, then perhaps this is a good sign.  But I suspect that something about this girl resonants with something significant about your past, and this is what has attracted your attention.

I don't know exactly what that is for you, but I'll tell you how it applies to me.  

Both my parents, I believe, have a personality disorder. When growing up, whenever my attention was applied to my uBPD mother, I'm certain that's when she was apparently most emotionally available to me.  Here's the scenario: whenever uNPD father leaves home to work, or socialize, or whatever and leaves uBPD mother home with the kids, uBPD mother would then experience anxiety and her disordered fear of abandonment.  And of course, she inappropriately expresses her distress to her children (I'm the oldest of my siblings).  This is all kinds of worlds of wrong (think covert incest); that's something I'm coming to terms with.  But at least this kind of scenario had primed or conditioned me to behave as a rescuer.  

Mom was in distress, maybe dad was "cheating" on her or doing something wrong because why else would mom be in distress?  Kid-Schwing steps up to the plate and does everything and anything he can to make mom feel better including scolding dad, or just by validating mom's distorted perceptions.  And gets rewarded by getting a temporarily attentive and grateful mother.

As I stated in previous posts, I told her not to feel obligated to me for any reason, because, really, I'm not available.  Our direct communications have slowed to a trickle, which kinda sucks, because I miss chatting with her, her attention.  As a result, the way things seem on FB now is "oh, did she post that about me?  Is she posting that for some other possible love interest?  :)oes she think I posted this for her?", etc.  I hate it.  I really don't want to be on there anymore, it messes with my head to much.  

I can't pretend to know what exactly is going on with you.  

But I'll tell you how your scenario can seriously mess with my head:  Not only would I have some unconscious and compelling reason to interact with such a woman.  But her sudden disinterest would actually draw me further because that was what I was familiar with when interacting with my uBPD mother: i.e., when my attention was fixed on her, she rewarded me.  When my attention wasn't fixed on her, I wasn't given the same kind of attention and nurturing for which I was desperate.  And so my mind would gravitate towards, how do I get her attention back?  Even though I was the one who was hurting.

This feeling -- I don't know, paranoia?  jealousy?  Not sure what to call it -- reminds me of how I felt coming out of r/s with xBPD.  Yeah, it's not as intense as it was then, but it's still uncontrollable, a nuisance I would rather not have to think about at this point.  

If this feeling reminds you of your exBPD, then that is a very bad sign.  Intellectually though you understand that by telling her you have a lot going on with you that your plate is full, if she is a compassionate and empathetic human being, she would demonstrate some kind of interest in what you are going through.  At the very least lend you her ear, because that is what you have done for her, no?  But instead, it's like you've suddenly ceased to exist for her.

At any rate, I'm tired of being miserable, tired of keeping myself distracted by numerous hobbies, tired of what's being said on FB, and the problem is I knew this would happen weeks ago when I decided to let myself *go there*.  Groan... .  Lord, give me strength!  I'm tired of the drama, of worrying about everybody else.  I just want this to be over.

Then do something about your miserable feelings besides turning to distractions.  Stop worrying about other people who are only sources of drama.  Maybe find some people who will worry about you for a change?

The way I feel now is that I made my case about keeping the future open, and I believe she accepts it, but that's all it is, an agreement that if/when the time comes she will welcome me for a visit. That's it: a visit.  It doesn't mean anything beyond that, and I am trying to reel myself back in emotionally.  Honestly, I'm getting there, slowly, but what should be the end game, indifference?  Should that be how I feel?  Like you mention, maybe she is emotionally unavailable.  Maybe she's always been that way.  She was available for me, back in the day when things were hot an heavy, but like you mention, long distance relationships have a way of propping up the fantasy, making it seem real.

For her it's a "visit." For you it's a whole lot more emotionally charged.  If this is not how you normally react to such a situation, you should ask yourself why do you react this way to this woman?  But then again, if you don't have the emotional resources to really investigate this, because that may be inviting a lot more drama into your life, then you should rationally let it go.  And if you find it difficult to do so, be wary.  This means you're dealing with an impulse which may be good or bad.  But for me, if I had such an impulse, I would consider it not good.  Not something I'd completely avoid, if I though it was an impulse I didn't understand about myself.  But I wouldn't take it on, unless I had room in my life for a significant puzzle.

Here's a kernel of contention that has been messing with my mind, probably the deepest concern I have.  If she was willing to maintain a LD r/s with me then, while she was engaged to me married, then a likelihood that she is seeing someone now exists.  I don't feel in a position to ask, not yet.

It might be better for you to try to limit how much you are guessing about her, and focus on why this is messing with your mind.

Well, I did ask, not quite that directly, but more along the lines of "If there's a reason I should stop this tell me now", to which she replied that she's not attracted to one guy that wants her, another guy she does want to be with uses her, and that she's not happy.  The way I interprit that is yes, there is a guy that she sees, but it's not what she wants it to be, or that it's her ex.  

I guess I neglected to mention this here because it hurts to admit.  The "she's not happy" part sounds oh so familiar.  Maybe she will never be happy.  That's why I say earlier that something is up, that she is living a destructive lifestyle, whether she's seeing a guy for sex, or whatever else it may be.  I haven't pressed too hard, because at this juncture I just don't think it'd matter, not until I myself am ready.

If she's not attracted to one guy that wants her... . but strings him along, that's not good.

If she's with another that she does want, but who uses her... . that's not good.

She's not happy... . but instead of talking to these other guys who I presume she is more involved with than you, she's talking to you instead.  Why?  Why is she talking to you about these other guys?  Granted this is not a triangle per say... . more like a trapezoid?

Why would you want to be ready for someone who is so confused about her love life?  :)o you see yourself as the one who will lift her confusion?  Or would you just add to the noise? (No disrespect to you as a lover, but rather I question her ability to appreciate and work with what she has)

And, while I'm at it, it comes back to the title of this post: I let the rescuer out of the bag, and now I can't put it back in.  I knew this would happen, and I didn't protect myself.  I used her sadness as a reason to come forth and proclaim my feelings.  My feelings are true, though, but maybe should have been kept to myself.

The way I feel, honestly, is I'm enmeshed with the fantasy, and with it comes a hollow feeling.  And it happened so fast.  

I think it is worthwhile to investigate this aspect of your behavior.

Ok, the rescuer is out of the bag and you can't put it back in.  That's ok.  You can still choose *not* to act on any of the rescuer's impulses.  That's not going to be easy, but this is a worthwhile skill to develop.  At least so long as you don't understand the nature of the rescuer in you.  

It is a key observation that you recognize that your rescuer impulse is in some way connected, or enmeshed with fantasy thinking.

Before this all happened, I was doing okay.  

Are you sure you were okay?  Because I would argue that if you were ok, the rescuer impulse you are dealing with right now, would not be a strong an impulse.  If you are doing worse, then perhaps you would not be able to help yourself in trying to limit this impulse.

I was dealing with the foreclosure and everything and wasn't too concerned about much.  Now I'm depressed and not thinking clearly.  That really is what bother me the most, whether it's a consequence of what is happening now, or what happened back then, or both combined.  I feel like an idiot for letting this happen.  

Sometimes not thinking clearly is a relief from depression.  I don't think you should feel like an idiot.  Thinking yourself as such may be part of the problem.  Granted what you are dealing with right now may be a distraction from other things that are important to you.  But this distraction might help you understand a little bit more about yourself, and that is a worthwhile endeavor.

Even though we are platonic, there is still a lot of sadness involved with living together, or even just in this house.  Every day I come home I have to look at this reminder of how we failed, how I failed.  

Ops, I'm going in the wrong order of your posts.  This post still might work out... .

You didn't fail, the relationship broke.  These things can happen for a whole host of different reasons.  Calling yourself a failure for things that may be completely outside of your control is not a good way to relate to yourself.  In your recovery process, you are in need of an advocate for your needs and wants.  You need to be this advocate.  And an advocate for your interests would not call you an "idiot" for doing something that is not idiotic, and would not call you a "failure" for not succeeding at something that was nearly impossible.

I don't like seeing everyone, them knowing I'm leaving.  I know they don't perceive me as a failure in the same why I see myself, but still I project a part of myself onto them.  I don't like answering questions about it, and try to change the subject whenever it comes up.

This might also be a worthwhile path to consider.  You know you might be projecting feelings onto other people.  And these feelings are driving you to isolate yourself during a period when isolation may not serve you.  You're going to go through one of the most stressful periods any person can go through: (1) you're changing where you live (2) you're changing where you work (3) you're changing who you live with.  Those are all on the top of the list when it comes to stressful things that can happen in a person's life.  You might be in need of support, not isolation.

Try answering those questions, to yourself.  So you can identify those thoughts you might be accepting, that an advocate wouldn't use to describe you.

... .