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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Do they ever think about us?  (Read 6437 times)
Ahhhh431
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2013, 11:47:46 PM »

Excerpt
I think that paradox comes from the conflicted nature of a human with this disorder.  She does "need" you to feel jealous so she feels special but she ALSO "needs" to be a good person who isn't unworthy of love.  So she gets to plant the seed that makes you jealous, but she gets to fool herself into thinking she's not doing anything wrong by lying and fabricating a different reality. She's compartmentalized these things so they can exist in her mind without seeming as obviously contradictory as they truly are.

This is so much true. My ex-bf was less functional, and I witnessed this many times. I think  it comes to self-image, and person can have pretty untrue self-image even without any disorder.

Disordered person can take this to the whole new level. They have a false personality: they want to believe they are good, honest people, real examples of perfect human being. But all the time they do things that say otherwise, and people around them complain and/or suffer. They might even notice that most people don't do the stuff they do. So they have to lie. I swear my ex-bf could do things and same time look  away from himself so he did not see what he was doing! They lie, and then they have to force other people to believe the reality they have fabricated in order to not see their false personality in all its ugliness. And there is always the projection! Just make  yourself to believe that actually it is other people doing what you do and problem is solved! You did nothing! It was them! It is always them! You are innocent victim! And if nothing else works, you can say that you were forced to do it by actions of others.

My ex-bf could keep this up by erasing his memory. And then he re-wrote it. I have heard how he now sees our relationship. I was in awe, because I could see he believed his own lies. He had to do this in order to make himself live in reality where he is my victim, and whatever he did to me, was caused by me. It is very hard not to be angry about it. Sometimes I still get an urge to go and grap him from his long hair and bang his head to the floor. I really see myself doing it. And then I pray for forgiveness.

It is really hard work for them to hide the compulsive needs and at the same time not to notice what they are actually doing. My grandmother was very disordered person, and she got bad dementia at age 60. Did not live long. I'm sure disordered person damage their brains in the long run by living in two realities.

Does counseling help them be able to see what their actions have done? Or do we simply move on knowing they may never know how they effected us
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Lao Tzu
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2013, 11:49:43 PM »

To All,

    Thanks for a very enlightening thread here.  I'm learning a lot. Spell, I'm having a problem with " ... . when in reality he misses for what I did for him and the role he believed I would play in filling up his emptiness."  The problem is not that I don't agree, but that I'm really starting to wonder if I'm a "pwBPD" myself, as I would have to say that in reality I miss my ex for what she did for me and the role I believed she would play in filling up my emptiness.  

    Of course I always wanted to rescue her and support her in any way I could, but she really wanted to rescue me as well.  The first article I ever read on this site said something like "You were saved by this person to some degree" and that was true.  The truth is that I really do miss her, to a very large degree, for what she did for me; how she made me feel, at least. It's also true that I have felt very empty since she left me, at least in the area of personal relationships.  Other parts of my life are very full (work, for example), but there is a huge void that only she filled.

    I'm just really confused at this point, which might be a bit surprising as our relationship ended decades ago. I wrote on another thread tonight that I'm starting to think that all this obsession and recycling is really just the probably-to-be-expected result of two very abandonment-sensitive people falling in love. Thoughts?
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bpdspell
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2013, 12:27:04 AM »

Spell, I'm having a problem with " ... . when in reality he misses for what I did for him and the role he believed I would play in filling up his emptiness."  The problem is not that I don't agree, but that I'm really starting to wonder if I'm a "pwBPD" myself, as I would have to say that in reality I miss my ex for what she did for me and the role I believed she would play in filling up my emptiness.  

Missing them for what they did for us is not the same thing as people with BPD/NPD having the entitled expectation that others are "supposed" to fulfill their emptiness and neediness. I had a lot of teenage fun with my ex and we shared a lot of happy times but I didn't feel "entitled" to being taken care of by him. I didn't place unrealistic demands on him to make me happy even though I didn't realize that his mental illness computed my needs as unrealistic demands. What I desired with him more than anything was intimacy and reciprocity. I wanted him to love, honor, respect, and cherish me. I wanted him to validate me. Not a one way street relationship of a job without benefits of filling up a bottomless pit of need.

Their expectations of us can reach and outer space neurotic level that are an intrinsic part of the role that they play in their own self-sabotage. They set themselves up to fail because there is nothing we have in our power that can fix the brokenness that lives inside of them. What they don't realize is that healing is an inside job; just like it is for us.

I doubt if you're BPD but some of us do have borderline traits, narcissist traits. Having insight is something that severely mentally ill people tend not to have which is why everyone else is to blame for their unhappiness and failures.

Spell
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bewildered2
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2 months good stuff, then it was all downhill


« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2013, 02:59:52 AM »

remember that with a borderline it is all about their needs, not yours.

so why would your ex need to think about you? how would it help them? no doubt you were treated badly, so when they think of you they are probably consumed with shame and so then need to twist the facts to make them feel a little better about themsleves. after enough time has gone by in the relationship, and they've lied/cheated and generally been abusive many many times, they've got a lot of internal evidence to prove how bad they really are, and so need to spend a lot of time and effort rewriting history in their minds so they dont feel so guilty. what an effort that all must take!

so instead, assuming your ex is attractive and charming and alluring, as so many borderlines are, it's off to a local bar to hang out with a friend and to pick up the next poor sucker and so the cycle starts all over again. and because a typical borderline has such low self esteem, they generally use sex to kick start the new "relationship", hence all these cases of an ex-BPDso in a new relationship within seconds of finishing with you. meanwhile, you are most likely sitting at home, broken-hearted, wondering what happened and why you feel so bad, and why you cant forget someone who pretty much destroyed you.

you are sane. they are not.

they only think of you when it serves a need, or when, in a rare moment of honesty with themselves, they admit that they have acted like PLEASE READs and feel awful about it for a minute or so, before applying a bandaid in the form of sex with the next sucker.

and that's the way it is with a disordered mind. disordered behavior results.

b2   
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Billa
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2013, 03:45:42 AM »

The way I see it is that they don't see the relationship as a relationship or as an honor or a privilege but as a job.  They only do what you want them to (love, spend time with you, sex) in order to get payment from you (love, attention, someone who cares, will be there for them).  They only do what they do because they know it needs to be done in order for them to get their payment.  But at some point they find that the work that is required of them is no longer worth the payment you are giving them -- therefore they look for someone who will give them better pay for less work.  

to a certain extent, I think that's true, even if they are much more complicated than this, so that there are a lot of personal issues involved in every different case. But, generally speaking, that's the way they work. My exBf did the same thing, when our r/s became not easy to manage, due to all the chaos he was bringing into it. He let me go, plain and simple, "because he had no time to lose arguing" (one of the things he told me), as he already had a new (recycled) supply who was giving him all he wanted without any particular effort to be done, one who protected him from the painted-black me.
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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2013, 04:09:21 AM »

Is it also common for them to go into extreme detail to work up jealousy?

ABSOUTLEY!  They are master manipulators and will find out your soft spots and attack them.

that's exactly what my ex did, for three months, driving me crazy! He was recycling his exGf and he constantly told me things such as "today I'm going to have a coffee with her", "she asked me to take her to the match" , "she told me that you are so and so"... . "I'm going to her lecture, as she will be very happy to see me there" (we live in two different towns, and I normally only saw him every fortnight, while in the end of our r/s he was spending all his spare time with her, seeing me just once a month... . ). And when I got nervous at all this, I he told me that I was the one who was creating problems, because I was unstable... . Then he took her with him for a three-days work-trip (asking a positive reinforce about it from me!), but "she was only a friend... . " and when this thing definitely destroyed me and our r/s, it was all my fault... . He blocked me on Facebook and Whatsapp and told me very bad things. ah, now, after three months, he has unblocked me, without saying a word about it. And I'm going crazy... .
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2013, 04:26:29 AM »

I left my ex because I could get better pay somewhere else for less work, does that make me BPD?  

Somethings are not always tied up into BPD.

No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.  A person with BPD needs and demands unconditional love from us, else we wouldnt hang around.  This leaves you open to be treated like crap and you stay because you have no conditions.

A healthy relationship has unspoken conditions.  You may never need to question them because both parties mutually respect the other person and their boundaries.
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VeryFree
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2013, 04:57:31 AM »


No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.  

Imho wether or not there are bloodties, a r/s NEVER can be unconditional. Give birth to or been given birth to can't make up for being treated like trash.

We have to learn that only one person should be loved unconditionally: yourself.

That doesn't mean, you shouldn't look at yourself, but it means you forgive yourself and grow.

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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2013, 06:40:53 AM »


No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.  

Imho wether or not there are bloodties, a r/s NEVER can be unconditional. Give birth to or been given birth to can't make up for being treated like trash.

We have to learn that only one person should be loved unconditionally: yourself.

That doesn't mean, you shouldn't look at yourself, but it means you forgive yourself and grow.

In some degree I disagree. Children are exception to that rule, and by that I mean until they are adults. My mother had conditions for loving me, and the myriad ways it hurt me can never beel explained to someone who hasn't been in my shoes. What I still believe is that she never loved me, and so I have no obligations towards her. I have no contact with her. I very much miss having a family when I see others with their families, but reality is that my mother never accepted and loved me and it only got worse more I tried to please her.

Children should never have to EARN the love from their parents.
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« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2013, 08:01:55 AM »


No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.  

Imho wether or not there are bloodties, a r/s NEVER can be unconditional. Give birth to or been given birth to can't make up for being treated like trash.

We have to learn that only one person should be loved unconditionally: yourself.

That doesn't mean, you shouldn't look at yourself, but it means you forgive yourself and grow.

I understand what you are saying and the knowledge you base that on.  I choose to love my kids unconditionally... . Will I put up with all their behavior? NO?

Will I stop being their mom because of their behavior... . no, NEVER.

Will I stop being the partner to my ex because of his behavior?  YES!
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xenia

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« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2013, 08:41:50 AM »

No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.

I've always disagreed with this notion, or when people say "I only love my child unconditionally." Unconditional love is extremely hard, because most of us have attachments or unstated conditions. I think unconditional love can be summed up as "live and let live". And for the people who say parents only love their children unconditionally, well, if that were true, there'd be no such thing as BPD. In a perfect world, we'd all love each other unconditionally. Unconditional love between you and someone not blood related is wholly possible, but difficult due to the feedback we get from our families and the world.

Excerpt
A healthy relationship has unspoken conditions.  You may never need to question them because both parties mutually respect the other person and their boundaries.

A healthy relationship has no conditions. Conditions = possession, and that isn't love. On my healing journey I write down quotes that I find helpful/inspiring. I can't remember where I got this one from (either here, another forum or a book), but it stood out to me:

"[He] lets people be who they are and then separates himself from them when they misbehave. 'You can be that way if you choose, but you cannot come into my house.'"

Sure, it sounds like a condition, but it's a boundary he sets to protect himself. A boundary is not punishment for someone else (or it shouldn't be). They may choose to see it that way, but you have to do what you need to protect yourself from harm.
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Ahhhh431
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« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2013, 11:33:00 AM »

Spell, I'm having a problem with " ... . when in reality he misses for what I did for him and the role he believed I would play in filling up his emptiness."  The problem is not that I don't agree, but that I'm really starting to wonder if I'm a "pwBPD" myself, as I would have to say that in reality I miss my ex for what she did for me and the role I believed she would play in filling up my emptiness.  

Missing them for what they did for us is not the same thing as people with BPD/NPD having the entitled expectation that others are "supposed" to fulfill their emptiness and neediness. I had a lot of teenage fun with my ex and we shared a lot of happy times but I didn't feel "entitled" to being taken care of by him. I didn't place unrealistic demands on him to make me happy even though I didn't realize that his mental illness computed my needs as unrealistic demands. What I desired with him more than anything was intimacy and reciprocity. I wanted him to love, honor, respect, and cherish me. I wanted him to validate me. Not a one way street relationship of a job without benefits of filling up a bottomless pit of need.

Their expectations of us can reach and outer space neurotic level that are an intrinsic part of the role that they play in their own self-sabotage. They set themselves up to fail because there is nothing we have in our power that can fix the brokenness that lives inside of them. What they don't realize is that healing is an inside job; just like it is for us.

I doubt if you're BPD but some of us do have borderline traits, narcissist traits. Having insight is something that severely mentally ill people tend not to have which is why everyone else is to blame for their unhappiness and failures.

Spell

Wow this strikes a chord in me.  My exgf would always say I was too needy, that I was suffocating her -- when in reality I was just giving myself to her abundantly and was not seeing her return it at all.  She basically drank in all my affection but returned it to me less frequently which made me try even harder.  I did not want her to be the reason I was happy, I just wanted her to love, honor, cherish, and validate me just as you said.  I knew how much I loved her and how someone in love acts towards another, when I saw her acting contrary to that constantly I began to question if she really liked me or not or if I was just convenient.  She always said I had huge expectations for her, and that I was needy -- is it common for them to think that your basic relationship needs are "needy"? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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bpdspell
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« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2013, 12:14:04 PM »

She always said I had huge expectations for her, and that I was needy -- is it common for them to think that your basic relationship needs are "needy"? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

yes it's common and a part of their Rubix cube logic. Think of them as emotionally stunted children trapped in an adult's body. They don't have the capacity to focus on your needs because they are neurotically controlled by their emotionally dehydrated and neglected inner child. BPD is an attachment disorder; meaning that the way they attach to others is through objectification. They don't see us as individuals with needs, wants and desires... . more like replacement parents. It's the same way children relate to adults.

For us the relationship feels parasitical, one sided and lacks reciprocity because they are incapable of relating to others as adults because of their own stunted brains. It's very difficult for us to accept because of appearances: they seem like adults and are very intelligent but somehow are severely handicapped in processing their emotions.

How they relate to others is quite painful for them because they lack insight as to why they relate to others the way they do. Emotional maturity is their blind spot and ours to a degree as well.

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xenia

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« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »

It's very difficult for us to accept because of appearances: they seem like adults and are very intelligent but somehow are severely handicapped in processing their emotions.

Very true. Getting to this point is difficult.
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« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2013, 12:28:24 PM »

When they NEED something, I'm sure they might, but this was by far the most abnormal r/s I was ever in.  My life centered around her, and she still had to lie, cheat, and manipulate and control me.  so does it matter if she "thinks about me?"

NO, not really.  that's like expecting a human emotion from an emotional piece of ___!

Just not happening and if it does, it wont be for long.  She has the attention span of a Gerbil!

MCC
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Ahhhh431
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« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2013, 12:34:53 PM »

She always said I had huge expectations for her, and that I was needy -- is it common for them to think that your basic relationship needs are "needy"? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

yes it's common and a part of their Rubix cube logic. Think of them as emotionally stunted children trapped in an adult's body. They don't have the capacity to focus on your needs because they are neurotically controlled by their emotionally dehydrated and neglected inner child. BPD is an attachment disorder; meaning that the way they attach to others is through objectification. They don't see us as individuals with needs, wants and desires... . more like replacement parents. It's the same way children relate to adults.

For us the relationship feels parasitical, one sided and lacks reciprocity because they are incapable of relating to others as adults because of their own stunted brains. It's very difficult for us to accept because of appearances: they seem like adults and are very intelligent but somehow are severely handicapped in processing their emotions.

How they relate to others is quite painful for them because they lack insight as to why they relate to others the way they do. Emotional maturity is their blind spot and ours to a degree as well.

It seemed like my ex at times would know something was wrong, she said she had a hard time expressing her emotions.  When I brought things up to her that I didn't necessary like or that I wish she would do to help validate me she would say "I know... . maybe you should find someone who does that, you don't really like me you just like the idea of me or you wouldn't try to change me."  -- This made me get to the point where I would just stop saying anything at all in fear that she would just say the same thing and leave. I once told her that the way she behaved with other guys was not respectful of me or my feelings and it devastated her.  For the next three days she would say ":)o you really think I'm disrespectful because then it means I have to change" and she would say it in such a childlike sad way that I would forget everything she did and just say "No its fine I was just upset at the moment" -- I feel like most people would be able to tell it bothers someone and out of respect would make adjustments without me having to tell you over and over that it hurt me.
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laelle
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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »

No relationships except the relationship between a parent and a child should be unconditional.

I've always disagreed with this notion, or when people say "I only love my child unconditionally." Unconditional love is extremely hard, because most of us have attachments or unstated conditions. I think unconditional love can be summed up as "live and let live". And for the people who say parents only love their children unconditionally, well, if that were true, there'd be no such thing as BPD. In a perfect world, we'd all love each other unconditionally. Unconditional love between you and someone not blood related is wholly possible, but difficult due to the feedback we get from our families and the world.

Excerpt
A healthy relationship has unspoken conditions.  You may never need to question them because both parties mutually respect the other person and their boundaries.

A healthy relationship has no conditions. Conditions = possession, and that isn't love. On my healing journey I write down quotes that I find helpful/inspiring. I can't remember where I got this one from (either here, another forum or a book), but it stood out to me:

"[He] lets people be who they are and then separates himself from them when they misbehave. 'You can be that way if you choose, but you cannot come into my house.'"

Sure, it sounds like a condition, but it's a boundary he sets to protect himself. A boundary is not punishment for someone else (or it shouldn't be). They may choose to see it that way, but you have to do what you need to protect yourself from harm.

I dont quite agree with you on all that, but as you wish.
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 02:44:44 PM »

I dont quite agree with you on all that, but as you wish.

No worries. Most people don't. Smiling (click to insert in post) I don't have all the answers, but my ideas of love were not born out of romantic relationships so I think that's why my perspective is different than most. Our society values romantic relationships above all others; these are the relationships that get examined most frequently, so I understand why other people feel the way they do.

Some people wonder why we're here (on earth). Maybe it's to learn what love really is... . based on our unique journeys.
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« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 02:53:51 PM »

I can understand what your saying there.

I have a colleague who was a psyche major in college and we had a long discussion a few weeks ago about love.

His view is that it doesnt exist... . That love is man made... .  That in reality love is a term used when two people find their "critical" wants and needs met in each other.

I dont know how true that is, but it made me a bit sad.  Having had the "romantic" view on things, I rather liked the special "spark" that meant love.

What is your view on that?

I do not have so much of the romantic point of view these days.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 03:05:55 PM »

laelle, I'm really inexperienced when it comes to romantic relationships (it's a big issue for me, actually), so I don't think I'm equipped to answer. Someone once told me that "sparks" and "butterflies" are often misinterpreted signals. That what they really represent is danger; a red flag of sorts. I haven't had an experience like that so I can't comment. I really only have my friendships to draw on. I will say that the friends I believe I love unconditionally... . the love deepens over time, even when I have no been in contact with them for years. It's a calm, rooted feeling that I can't explain. I don't know what it's like to "fall out" of love, because everyone I've truly love... . I've loved them just as much if not more after our friendship came to an end. So I don't understand how people fall out of love, or even when they say "I don't love him/her the same". I don't get it. It's like anger, I think. I now recognize that my anger is really a cover for my sadness (this "healing" stuff really works!). So when people say "I fell out of love with him/her", I'm thinking that "other" emotion is no longer there. Now, is what's left love? That's for them to answer.
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 03:24:06 PM »

"sparks" and "butterflies" are often misinterpreted signals.

I will absolutely be keeping this in mind for when I decide I'm ready to date again.  I will agree with you that in my own relationship, I had some warnings that I misinterpreted.

Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2013, 04:39:02 PM »

"sparks" and "butterflies" are often misinterpreted signals.

I will absolutely be keeping this in mind for when I decide I'm ready to date again.  I will agree with you that in my own relationship, I had some warnings that I misinterpreted.

Smiling (click to insert in post)

Dang, I love the sparks and butterflies... . But they have never lead me down the right way before.
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« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2013, 06:49:19 PM »

Wow this strikes a chord in me.  My exgf would always say I was too needy, that I was suffocating her -- when in reality I was just giving myself to her abundantly and was not seeing her return it at all.  She basically drank in all my affection but returned it to me less frequently which made me try even harder.  I did not want her to be the reason I was happy, I just wanted her to love, honor, cherish, and validate me just as you said.  I knew how much I loved her and how someone in love acts towards another, when I saw her acting contrary to that constantly I began to question if she really liked me or not or if I was just convenient.  She always said I had huge expectations for her, and that I was needy -- is it common for them to think that your basic relationship needs are "needy"? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Yes. I was viewed as needy but it really was a simple want of balance. Sometimes my ex would say I was trying too hard. But I always thought that he said this because he didn't know how to reciprocate. It was a sense of loss of self for him to allow himself to be vulnerable. It was tho he didn't want me to try because it made him feel pressured to do the same in return. When I would point out the lack of reciprocity, he would find an excuse as to WHY he couldn't meet halfway. All I heard was fear of emotional attachment even tho it was he craved. He didn't mind receiving but when it was time to give it made him feel scared. Deep inside he seemed to have a fear of love, fear of commitment, and fear of rejection. Mix in the need to be accepted by others and fear of judgments (real or unreal). Hard combo to convince when someone feels self defeat and paranoia.

I think it's common for them to say were needy. But their view of needy probably has more to do with their own insecurities and fears.
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« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »

Wow this strikes a chord in me.  My exgf would always say I was too needy, that I was suffocating her -- when in reality I was just giving myself to her abundantly and was not seeing her return it at all.  She basically drank in all my affection but returned it to me less frequently which made me try even harder.  I did not want her to be the reason I was happy, I just wanted her to love, honor, cherish, and validate me just as you said.  I knew how much I loved her and how someone in love acts towards another, when I saw her acting contrary to that constantly I began to question if she really liked me or not or if I was just convenient.  She always said I had huge expectations for her, and that I was needy -- is it common for them to think that your basic relationship needs are "needy"? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Yes. I was viewed as needy but it really was a simple want of balance. Sometimes my ex would say I was trying too hard. But I always thought that he said this because he didn't know how to reciprocate. It was a sense of loss of self for him to allow himself to be vulnerable. It was tho he didn't want me to try because it made him feel pressured to do the same in return. When I would point out the lack of reciprocity, he would find an excuse as to WHY he couldn't meet halfway. All I heard was fear of emotional attachment even tho it was he craved. He didn't mind receiving but when it was time to give it made him feel scared. Deep inside he seemed to have a fear of love, fear of commitment, and fear of rejection. Mix in the need to be accepted by others and fear of judgments (real or unreal). Hard combo to convince when someone feels self defeat and paranoia.

I think it's common for them to say were needy. But their view of needy probably has more to do with their own insecurities and fears.

Wow I encountered this with my ex as well... . Seems like he didn't want you to try because he knew that he could not give you what you could give him -- that might have made him feel insecurity/inadequate.  My ex definitely had a fear of commitment, I could see it in her eyes, they got so big when I talked about us in being in a relationship... . She would never say we were "official" but we just did everything people in a relationship would and she even talked about marriage almost every night on the phone yet could not commit... . so weird.  She would be super sweet and would give back all the love I gave her for a couple days and then say ":)o you like how I have been recently?" As if she knew thats how it should be but she could never keep up with it... . she would inevitably fall back into taking and barely giving.  If I ever said anything like "well I thought we were just friends, please don't call me sweetheart or baby" which was essentially setting up a boundary she would start crying and say "we aren't just friends!" -- I think the lose of control scared her.  She said she hid our relationship from everyone too because she didn't feel right about it, but then at another point said it was because they didn't approve, then at another time said it was because she liked control... . which one is it? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2013, 07:13:12 PM »

Yes. I was viewed as needy but it really was a simple want of balance. Sometimes my ex would say I was trying too hard. But I always thought that he said this because he didn't know how to reciprocate. It was a sense of loss of self for him to allow himself to be vulnerable. It was tho he didn't want me to try because it made him feel pressured to do the same in return. When I would point out the lack of reciprocity, he would find an excuse as to WHY he couldn't meet halfway. All I heard was fear of emotional attachment even tho it was he craved. He didn't mind receiving but when it was time to give it made him feel scared. Deep inside he seemed to have a fear of love, fear of commitment, and fear of rejection. Mix in the need to be accepted by others and fear of judgments (real or unreal). Hard combo to convince when someone feels self defeat and paranoia.

I think it's common for them to say were needy. But their view of needy probably has more to do with their own insecurities and fears.

Were we in a r/s with the same person,  OR did we live parallel lives... . although he was always in a hurry for commitment... . nonetheless the rest is freaky as it is exactly what happened to me after he left me and i tried to convince him... .
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« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2013, 07:19:21 PM »

Yes. I was viewed as needy but it really was a simple want of balance. Sometimes my ex would say I was trying too hard. But I always thought that he said this because he didn't know how to reciprocate. It was a sense of loss of self for him to allow himself to be vulnerable. It was tho he didn't want me to try because it made him feel pressured to do the same in return. When I would point out the lack of reciprocity, he would find an excuse as to WHY he couldn't meet halfway. All I heard was fear of emotional attachment even tho it was he craved. He didn't mind receiving but when it was time to give it made him feel scared. Deep inside he seemed to have a fear of love, fear of commitment, and fear of rejection. Mix in the need to be accepted by others and fear of judgments (real or unreal). Hard combo to convince when someone feels self defeat and paranoia.

I think it's common for them to say were needy. But their view of needy probably has more to do with their own insecurities and fears.

Were we in a r/s with the same person,  OR did we live parallel lives... . although he was always in a hurry for commitment... . nonetheless the rest is freaky as it is exactly what happened to me after he left me and i tried to convince him... .

My ex was quick to commitment too but quickly backed away -- she wanted to have a courthouse wedding and then hide it from everyone for a year or two and then have an actual wedding.  She would ask if we could get married one day, then the next run away and say we weren't right for each other... . I don't know how that is even acceptable behavior in someones mind.

She told me "I only said those things because I was afraid you would leave"
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« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2013, 07:31:06 PM »

Seems like they'd like to be in control of the situation. If my ex would talk about commitment it was OK for him. He felt safe. But when I'd mention it, it was like alarms going off in his head. Seemed like he wanted to have control over how much and when.
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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2013, 03:11:07 AM »

 I choose to love my kids unconditionally... . Will I put up with all their behavior? NO?

I think we say the same thing.

You love your kids and will ever love them, but don't put up with all their behavior. That means conditions.

My stbx demanded unconditional love from me and explained that as follows: I had to put up with all her behavior, or I didn't love her!
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