How do we time discussions about their behaviour with them?

[connect]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice guys. I have things I wish to discuss with my BPD bf regarding his behaviours.

The trouble is there never seems to be a good time. He has been disregulated/dissociated for quite a few months now and so there have been lots of issues with his behaviour (including him dumping me for 13 days)

After a large outburst/silent treatment from him etc (I do use the tools when this happens) we then spend time re-connecting and as he is still delicate I don't bring up my issues then thinking instead I will discuss them when he has "settled". So then things do settle and I don't raise the issues then as we are now rebuilding the r/s and I don't want to trigger him to disregulate again. Of course eventually he disregulates ANYWAY on a smaller scale and so the cycle begins again.

Has anyone got any advice for me as to how to time any serious discussion with him about his behaviour?

I am not talking about discussing the breakup, I am talking about discussing things like:

How I feel after his outbursts

Talking more about his undiagnosed BPD emotional outbursts and pointing him in the meds/cbt direction (He admits he has problems and we have lightly mentioned these things previousley)

Ways I think we can improve our r/s (ie more contact)

The best ways to handle outbursts/depression/silent treatment from his perspective

Things I want in a r/s and how my r/s’s normally look for me

This question is bought on by a really great 4 days we spent together culminating in an outburst from him claiming to feel suffocated etc etc (his goto disregulation method) I pulled it back by using the tools and giving him space and so left this morning on a good note. He did apologise for his outburst but it has left a bad taste in my mouth and a “are we here again?” feeling. I believe that we have spent a long time talking about HIS interpretation and feelings about the r/s and I would like to talk about my feelings. I understand about radical acceptance that this is what he is – I do however  want to raise things myself about his disregulation without triggering more disregulation.

Thanks!

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[MaybeSo]

I think if you have some important things to say in a relationship, you say it, knowing in this case, it may upset him (dysregulation).

Also, be clear what you are hoping for in talking about certain things;

The subtext I get from your list is that you would understandably like to have a more normal relationship, similar to what you have had in the past.

Now, if I put my BPD hat on... . I can feel shame and frustration rising to the surface already.

Are you asking him to do something he is incapable of doing? Eg., don't be so borderline. Eg., don't be so... . you.

PwBPD struggle with shame and handling their own emotions everyday. What exactly are your needs, and is it realistic that he can meet those needs?

My ex has been in therapy for over 8 years. He will likely always be a challenging partner.this is who he is.

Most of improvements seen on this board come from the non taking better care of their own needs inside the (chosen) relationship with a pwBPD or traits. For example, I share freely with certain close friends in a way that feels normal to me and meets some of my intimacy needs that my pwBPD can't. I accept that mood swings and ups/downs are part of BPD. Even with therapy and meds... . Therapy doesnt make them a perfect partner... . and takes a long time.

Does he want to do therapy? Seems he would be doing that already, no?

Do you expect him to stop dysregulating because of how it makes you feel?

He must have some knowledge already that you aren't thrilled with his dysregulated states, no? His last dysregulation was triggered by closeness (typical of disorder)... . why do think more contact will improve the relationship?

I think your needs are important; just want to help you flesh them out realistically. 

[briefcase]

Well, there really isn't ever a "good" time to bring up these things, so you just have to do it.  There can be "bad" times to raise these issues - like during a argument while he's dysregulated, if there is real external stress from something else (his job, deaths in the family, etc.).  It may be ok to delay a conversation if there is something out of the ordinary going on, but other than that you just strap on your DEARMAN and SET helmet and go for it (keeping Maybeso's points in mind about your expectations.

[MaybeSo]

... . sorry, to finish... . oops cross posted with WR so pretty much echoing him... .

re: timing.

You already know you can't talk when he is dysregulated.

Other than that, you pick a time when it's calm and you won't get interrupted by kids or work etc., kind of like any relationship.

You cannot control for his response... . you don't have control over that.  You can use communications tools when speaking with him like emotional validation, and SET,  and DEARMAN... .

Sometimes approaching things as a team, eg., what can we do to make things work the best for us... . goes over better than a talk that is intended to deal with HIS issues as the identified problem person. (no one likes that)

If you are reticent to try to talk with him during the good times, that is something you need to examine for yourself.  Yes it may stop the 'good time' or the make-up time prematurely depending on how it goes... .  We have to manage our emotions around that kind of stuff, right?  You only have control over yourself, not him.  

[connect]

Thanks Maybeso and Briefcase! Great answers and very helpful.

I don't know exactly what I want to say to him, they were just things that popped into my head,  its more a general feeling that my feelings arent being aired enough in the r/s. I suppose its me coming up against a BPD symptom and resisting the reality of it? I agree that if my feelings arent being heard then it is my responsibility to make them heard. I don't know why I have been so reluctant to say things about my feelings when we are in a settled state. Fear I suppose of rocking the boat? I agree that when I do discuss them that it should be in a non threatening language using "we" and talking about things that "we" can do.

He told me after his disregulation last night that he is "an emotional flower" and his feelings are "very sensitive" At this point (after validating) I reminded him that he is not the only one in the room with feelings. It seemed to shock him into a different viewpoint as though he hadnt thought about my feelings in all this. It made me want to say more to him along these lines. Not sure what exactly, but I would like to express some more of my feelings to him in a non threatening way.

[arabella]

I think it's harder to get started on a conversation if you're thinking of it as "A Conversation". Like, the more things you want to say, the less likely you are to say them. I've been picking one or two things that I most want to say, reducing them to concise statements, and then popping them out when a calm opportunity arises. For the most part I try to avoid having a whole conversation about it. The shorter the talk, the more likely: a) he is to remember the actual point you're making; and b) the less likely he is to dysregulate. My H hates the idea of us "having a talk" - so I try to keep things to less than 5 minutes. If he's in the mood to delve deeper, it's quite apparent, and I will then use the opportunity to get in as much as I can until I sense he's getting fidgety or overwhelmed.

So, basically, don't try to tackle it all at once. Prioritize and then distill it down to simple ideas you can whip out individually and with minimal fuss. Then, well, just go for it! Good luck!

[123Phoebe]

Hi Connect

I don't know if this will help, it's something I've noticed with my guy though... .

When he really honest and truly understands that something's important to me, he'll try his best to accommodate   That means, that what I'm asking for or suggesting, is every bit about me and I'm not going to hate him if he can't come through.  There is no shame, blame or guilt placed upon him (or at least a whole lot less than before ).  I've talked to him about my own dysregulation-state (perimenopause ), and it opened up the topic for both of us needing space at times.

I am talking about discussing things like:

How I feel after his outbursts

Talking more about his undiagnosed BPD emotional outbursts and pointing him in the meds/cbt direction (He admits he has problems and we have lightly mentioned these things previousley)

Ways I think we can improve our r/s (ie more contact)

The best ways to handle outbursts/depression/silent treatment from his perspective

Things I want in a r/s and how my r/s’s normally look for me

It's a state of mind not having expectations.  Being in this relationship has taught me a lot about patience, gratitude, vulnerability, appreciation and the importance of self-care.  When I'm in my own zen-zone, we get along very very well.  He is hyper-sensitive to my agitated states, as I was with his.  We'd both act out on each other.  I act out a whole lot less now, thank goodness, and he comes back around super quick no matter what our original issue was. 

I appreciate what he brings to my life.  We have a foundation that's pretty darn cool and I'd really miss him if he wasn't around.

Some of the things he does are a big WHATEVER(!), but all in all I feel content and happy.  I've never felt this good in any other relationship.  I'm thankful for having more space and 'me time' than in any other relationship.  I've opened up to him about certain things and he's been very gracious with the information.  Patience was never one of my strong suits, but learning new gratifying ways to 'wait' has been a blessing in disguise... .

So, can you kinda solidify in your mind what it is that makes you choose to stay in this relationship?  Working out from that staNPDoint might prove to be a little easier than feeling weighted down with the things that you don't like or that you want to change.

If there's one thing I've learned through all of this, it's that people don't change because I'd like them too    They change because they want to and there's an incentive for doing the work.

Believe in yourself and him... .   And try not to make the dynamic-- talking about his BPD behaviors.  Actions speak louder than words.  I'm not saying, don't discuss issues.  It's just that sometimes, they're not things that are going to change anyway, or could even become worse if he feels pressured.

The Serenity Prayer comes to mind... .

[Chosen]

I would like to know when I can discuss ANYTHING remotely negative with my H too.  Obviously not when he is dysregulated, but it doesn't seem to work any other time as well.

It's not like he's going to change any of his behaviours, knowing that I don't like them (but perhaps it's not serious enough to set a boundary for it)... .