Can't They See How Much Embarrassment They Cause? Bad Weekend

[maryy16]

My H has been doing really well for the past year or so, no public outbursts, except for once when he did go off on someone at the car dealership, he actually went back and apologized to the person!

But... . on to this weekend. We were have lunch out at a restaurant, H and myself and our 3 grown children.  Also along were my son's girlfriend (she has seen H in action before) and my daughter's new boyfriend (he has only seen the "normal" side of H).

Well, of course, for some reason everyone's food came out except for H's.  Everyone else was half way done eating and his food had still not arrived... . waiter kept saying "just of few more minutes".  I was actually proud of H because he did seem to be holding it together.

After a bit more, H got up and went to talk to the manager (we could not hear the conversation).  As he was talking to the manager, our waiter walked by them and I saw that H was talking to him also.  Well, H came back and said that he told them he did not want the food and to just remove it from the check.  Pretty good, right? NOT!

So after we get done eating, the waiter brings the check and says "I did not charge you for the one meal and I DO NOT appreciate being cussed at!".  Now H blows up and shouts "Oh yea, well you deserved it and I am glad that your manager was there to hear it!"  Then he holds up the check and shouts "I'm holding your tip in my hand!" 

At that point, I spoke up and told him to "stop right now", "just stop it".  Then he looks at me and mouths "f***ing bhit". 

Everyone just went quiet and H sits back down looking pleased with himself.  After 30+ years you'd think I would be immune to this behavior, but I am not! I can't stand it! He embarrasses himself and everyone with him. WHY! WHY! I've done everything I can... . and nothing can stop him.  I just don't know what else can be done!

Just a vent really, I know there are no answers and nothing will ever "cure" him.  Stupid cycles, stupid, disease!

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[briefcase]

Well, you're right, you can't really control him or make him change.  He will have to decide he wants to work on himself for that to happen.

All you can do is control yourself.  I'm curious what consequences there have been from this incident.  Did you talk to him later?  Did you let this pass?  What did you do?

[maryy16]

Basically, I just stopped talking to him for the rest of the day.  I was polite and answered when he talked to me, but I did not initiate conversation.  He knows I am upset, but he's not at the point yet where I can talk to him about it. And, honestly, there probably is no point in even talking to him about it due to the fact that when he is "normal" he completely understands that his behavior is inappropriate.  His "normal" mind and dysregulated mind are two completely different animals... . basically not even the same person... . the normal mind can't help him when he goes into an episode. 

Any advice as to what I should do at this point would be greatly appreciated... .

[coasterhusband]

Thinking outloud here, but ... . rather than telling him to stop it (which is like a red flag to the BPD bull), what about simply leaving the table and going outside? No words, just leave.

But here's the bigger question to me: what are you boundaries about how he behaves around you in public?

Decide that, then share those with him. It'll likely result in him getting angry, but don't take the bait. Calm, cool, informative. "From now on, I won't be participating in outburst like that. I will not be cussed at in front of our children". If you choose to behave like that, I will immediately excuse myself from the table and will wait in the parking lot until you are ready to leave. I will not participate."

Then stop. No engaging, no arguing, no debating, no getting triggered.

Maybe?

[Vindi]

well, he should have least apologize... . to you... . for calling you a f***ing b***h. And yes, life is not always easy, and yes, sometimes restaurants do get tricky and service is not as good as we expect, again, the waiters/waitresses and cooks all make mistakes and no one is perfect. And yes, the last poster mentioned... . what are "your" boundaries, in public? and the way he treats and talks to you, what is acceptable and what is not.

Sorry you had to go thru this ordeal and hope you are feeling better.

[maryy16]

Thanks everyone... .

Basically when we are in public and he goes off like that, I try to remove him from the situation so that innocent people don't get hurt (I don't mean physical hurt, but hurt by getting yelled at and called names).  I know I should just walk away, but in a strange way, I feel responsible for him and his actions towards others, if I am present. But, everyone here is right, I NEED to set better boundaries with consequences. I cannot let this continue!

The worst part of the whole episode was that when he was done yelling, he sat down with such a smug look on his face.  I feel that he actually felt that he did something "good".  Kind of like "well, I was just saying what everyone else was thinking".  I think he truly believes that if he calls me a b***h in public that everyone will actually think that I am a b***h.  He has said before, "well, I just had to let everyone know what you are REALLY like!".  He doesn't understand that it is the exact opposite, that everyone is looking at him as the crazy one. 

[123Phoebe]

Hi maryy16  

Sending you some feel good vibes... .

Wow, there's a lot to this scenario, in my mind... .  I can feel your H stressing a little ("just a few more minutes... . ", stressing more... . (everyone's eating except him, plus the added "just a few more minutes" and stressing more and more ("just a few more minutes" = LIE!), until he just has to say something... .  So he gets up to talk with the manager in private, waiter walks up and words are exchanged ... .  He took care of things as he saw fit.  Who knows what was said.  The dismissive, lying waiter then has the effin nerve to come over and say in front of this paying customer's family that HE doesn't like being cussed at?  How about being dismissed and disrespected and taken for a fool?  Oh man, the dude doesn't know what being cussed at IS!  "I'm holding your tip in my hand!"

Kinda like an overblown balloon before it "pops".

At that point, I spoke up and told him to "stop right now", "just stop it".  Then he looks at me and mouths "f***ing bhit".

"POP"

I am not going to say that the way your husband conducted himself was right or proper.  No, I wouldn't shout at a waiter in public or call my partner a foul name, but I sure have felt like doing it!  Have you ever?  I can see and feel how it got to that overblown state, especially for a person with poor impulse control which is characteristic of BPD.

Wow, I can really feel the power of validation/invalidation in your story; can you?

The way I see it, your H was invalidated to the max by the waiter and then humiliated on top of it.  Bad combo.

And then you took the waiter's side.

Not saying that you did, but that's how he could have perceived it.

I'm wondering how he would've responded to you asking "what's going on?" (detached) and validate his emotions around that, instead of saying "stop right now, just stop it" (attached).

Believe me, I do get your point and I do not feel curious while around my mother when she's acting up.  I know it's something she does on occasion and try to make myself scarce so she doesn't aim all that funk at me, around me, anywhere in my vicinity  I can't stand it either.

I've detached enough now though, that in small doses I can better deal with it.  It's a part of her makeup.  People p*ss her off, they're going to hear about it and smugly like your H, she has every right.  End of story.

So, when she starts, she doesn't get to have the extra added bonus of having me in the audience applauding or booing her.  I can be pretty neutral which takes some of the pizzazz out of it.

I understand that when you're married and living together it's a different story altogether.  It's still possible to detach from his antics knowing that he's not a reflection on you.  You are not responsible for what he says or does and people are going to think what they want to think.

When he comes back down and around, I think I'd ask him what was going on?  What happened during the manager/waiter chat?  Validate his feelings around that; his feelings, not the facts.  Ask him if he was feeling disrespected by them? Humiliated?  Can you understand how he would?  Let him know you understand.  Then maybe that will open him up to understanding how you felt the same way when he called you that name... . disrespected and humiliated.

Sounds like he transferred his awful feelings onto you and you caught them.  Let those yucky's swerve on by and out into the wind... .

No applause

No boos

No pizzazz

= a deflating balloon

No big drama.

And what drama there is, he gets to own the rights to!  

[Grey Kitty]

I've been in situations a bit like that myself. I finally realized something which gave me a lot of peace:

I am not my wife. She is not me. If she is being rude and obnoxious to somebody, that is on her, not on me. I don't have to apologize for her. I don't have to "clean up" or "make nice" to cover for her. I don't have to tell her she's right. I don't have to tell her she's wrong.

Don't you know couples where you think one of the two of them is a nice, wonderful person, and the other one is unpleasant in some way? Give other people the freedom to think the same about you and your H.

[123Phoebe]

Give other people the freedom to think the same about you and your H.

Excellent point

And I'll add, give yourself the freedom to detach... . with

[Verbena]

I agree that you should tell him what your limits are and then, if it happens again, remove yourself from the situation.  There's nothing okay or justified about the way he acted.  True, you could have said you were leaving because you wouldn't tolerate that behavior in your presence (and he still would have probably called you a name), but I don't see anything wrong with telling him to stop it. 

My daughter did something similar in a restaurant last summer. Her best friend's husband jokingly said something about bridezillas, (she was always telling everybody she wasn't one even though she was), and she exploded, threw food at her then-fiance, and stormed out with her beer mug still in her hand.  The best friend then went outside to "talk her down" (something she has done many times), and my D smashed the beer mug against the building and then walked away from the restaurant.  She ended up about a quarter mile away at another restaurant.   There were lots of texts and phone calls, and finally she allowed her fiance to come pick her up.   

She's never denied that any of that happened, but her best friend is still a liar and a horrible, backstabbing you-know-what for coming to me with her concerns over my D's behavior.  There were half a dozen people there with my daughter when this happened--not counting other customers--and I really wish they had all reacted differently.  My SIL says he knows nothing about this particular incident, by the way, and I didn't argue with him.  But her best friend and I are the liars.  It's beyond frustrating. 

[maryy16]

123Phoebe... .

You hit the nail on the head!  Your description of my H's feelings and the whole situation are EXACT!  I swear you must have been there! Haha!

Unfortunately, that is the problem here... . his FEELINGS are justified and, of course, any of us would have been more than pissed off if we were in the situation.  But, it is his REACTIONS to the situations that are unacceptable. In prior situations he will ask "What?  Was I not suppose to get mad at that?"  My answer is "Yes, of course, you can get mad, but you don't have to act on those feelings". That's the part that he can't understand.  All of us how thought about things we would LIKE to do when we are upset, but we don't actually ever do any of them.  But, my H just can't understand that you have to keep yourself in check.

Unfortunately, he was brought up in a household where everyone just yelled and screamed at each other.  His mother has some sort of PD.  No one was ever taught to deal with feelings in a socially acceptable manner, and , thus, he seems to be forever stuck in the "terrible twos". 

[123Phoebe]

Unfortunately, that is the problem here... . his FEELINGS are justified and, of course, any of us would have been more than pissed off if we were in the situation.  But, it is his REACTIONS to the situations that are unacceptable. 

I get it, I do I do I do I do I do   It's totally embarrassing and wth?  Blech, I can't take it!

He's a grown adult.  He's going to say and do whatever he feels like, and the kicker is... . He has every right to conduct himself however he chooses to do so.  It's just the way it goes.

We cannot make grown adults do what we'd like them to, even with all the backup in the world telling us how right we are in our way of thinking.  We have no control, zero.  We only have control over ourselves.  And sometimes it's hard as can be to change our own ways, even when we'd like to.

The more we push someone to change, the deeper they dig their heels in.  It's pretty basic human nature.

What we can do is limit ourselves to the exposure of that kind of behavior.  Or let our feelings be known about how it affects us.  Or ignore it altogether knowing that it's going to happen again and again and again... .   We cannot make someone change their behavior though, no matter how wrong we think it is or tell them it is.

If you decide to set a boundary around exposure to it, telling him that you will remove yourself from it if/when it happens again, be prepared to remove yourself.  Just do it.  You won't be taken seriously otherwise.

But, don't expect him to change simply because you told him it's unacceptable.

And in defense of your H... .   fwiw, I think the waiter was WAY out of line for saying what he did in front of the rest of you.  Whatever he had to say to H, should have been handled right then and there in front of the manager.  Sounds like the waiter didn't have very good boundaries and it was pretty rude of him to bring it to the table... .   You H trumped his a$$ by shouting out.

It's playground stuff.

Don't play