So what is it? Why are you hung up?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

All of us are here still for a reason... . Because our BPDex's, or the relationships that we had with them, still pull on us in one way or another.  So my question is, what has you stuck?

I personally still spend a Lot of my time each day thinking about her and what she is doing. This is two months after the fact. I DO NOT want her back. I don't pine for her at all.  I have even recently stopped wondering about what "could have been", because that isn't a fair game to play with myself.  There is no "could have been"; BPD defines her. It is who she is.

So what do I think about?

I think I wonder what she is doing so much because I wonder if she will ever "make it". If she will ever find peace and happiness. It is truly what I want for her... . And even that is a tricky concept.  There is no "I" when it comes to her anymore. It is her life to live, her consequences to live with. 

Above all, she was my priority for 9 months... . Everything took a back seat to loving her, the relationship I had with her, and all of the problems... . I think I'm having a hard time adjusting back to thinking for me instead of us.

It is also hard because I have always felt as though I am just sort of drifting through life with no real purpose or aim... . She became that focus that I never had, and it is odd not having it anymore.

This is kind of a end-all-catch-all thread, but I am trying to figure out why I spend so much time thinking of what she is up to when I do not want her back... . I am not angry with her... . I do not check her Facebook or anything and have not had contact for two weeks... . Yet she is always present... . And I do not fancy the idea of rebounding... . Truth be told, no one I have met or seen really appeals to me. At all. I'm a 20 year old guy with no interest in playing the field. Something MUST be wrong 

[Octoberfest]

All of us are here still for a reason... . Because our BPDex's, or the relationships that we had with them, still pull on us in one way or another.  So my question is, what has you stuck?

I personally still spend a Lot of my time each day thinking about her and what she is doing. This is two months after the fact. I DO NOT want her back. I don't pine for her at all.  I have even recently stopped wondering about what "could have been", because that isn't a fair game to play with myself.  There is no "could have been"; BPD defines her. It is who she is.

So what do I think about?

I think I wonder what she is doing so much because I wonder if she will ever "make it". If she will ever find peace and happiness. It is truly what I want for her... . And even that is a tricky concept.  There is no "I" when it comes to her anymore. It is her life to live, her consequences to live with. 

Above all, she was my priority for 9 months... . Everything took a back seat to loving her, the relationship I had with her, and all of the problems... . I think I'm having a hard time adjusting back to thinking for me instead of us.

It is also hard because I have always felt as though I am just sort of drifting through life with no real purpose or aim... . She became that focus that I never had, and it is odd not having it anymore.

This is kind of a end-all-catch-all thread, but I am trying to figure out why I spend so much time thinking of what she is up to when I do not want her back... . I am not angry with her... . I do not check her Facebook or anything and have not had contact for two weeks... . Yet she is always present... . And I do not fancy the idea of rebounding... . Truth be told, no one I have met or seen really appeals to me. At all. I'm a 20 year old guy with no interest in playing the field. Something MUST be wrong 

[crystalclear]

1. Have I misjudged him? (Lack of validation about BPD/NPD and passive aggressive)

2. Was 'I' who triggered this behavior in him?

2. When did the Discard begin?

3. Will marriage to a 'better' person change him?

He is present, even when he has long gone and moved on. I do not want him anymore after what he did and said to me. I just want to make the best of my life.

No matter how busy i keep myself - i am unable to get him out of my head. All the memories keep playing like a never ending movie. I read incessantly everyday to find answers, to find some peace.

[Trick1004]

October,

Six weeks after she dumped me, I have similar feelings as you do. I'm over the pining and wanting any chance of reconciliation. It was hard but I was able to avoid all her attempts to see me in the couple of weeks after the breakup and at this stage I just want to move on.

Despite that I am still hung up on a couple of things:

1. I still don't know why she decided to end it besides the old "i love you, but am not in love with you" line of BS. The pain would have still been the same if she had told me the honest reason why she wanted to end it.

2. She still wants to meet and talk, (I don't know about what) and left it to me when I was ready (by the time I am ready it will be because I don't care anymore) because she still loves me and can't imagine not seeing me again.

3. Absolutely nothing from her so far acknowledging or recognizing our relationship for the past four years. I at least left her a letter expressing that I wouldn't trade the last four years for anything, I love her and truly want her to be happy, and I hold no blame or ill will towards her. Have received nothing back.

Those are my hangups. I am getting to the point where I don't care to have them answered because I suspect they honestly never will with her.

Great post.

[papawapa]

There are two things that have me hung up. The first being that despite what she says about not wanting me I know that she is going to come crawling back to me one day in the future. The second is our kids and wanting our family back together.

She thinks she has found what she was looking for in her new replacement object. I know that it is only a matter of time until she flips on him, paints him black and will be searching once again to fill her void. I feel that I understand her better than she understands herself at this point. If she is ever going to have any chance of "normalcy" in her life it can only be with someone who understands what BPD is and is committed to learning the tools necessary to handle her. I have myself convinced that I can do that.

I have been awarded temporary full custody of the kids and I have hope that the prospect of losing her kids forever will be motivation for her to finally get help for herself. To have anything other than supervised visitation she is going to have to end her current relationship. She is going to have to get herself to treatment for her drinking and drug problem, it has been ordered by the court that she take an assessment and I am certain that treatment will be recommended for her. She has also been ordered to start therapy for herself and she has to do a psychological evaluation. I am pretty confident that she will be properly diagnosed and then will have to face the reality of knowing she has BPD and can get the right help that she needs.

Although I still have hope it is not much hope. I stay on this board because I feel I can help others avoid the suffering I endured for twelve years. If we did not have kids together it would be much easier for me to completely detach myself and move on. I want my kids to have their mother in their lives, just not the person she is right now. I also stay posting here because I realize the odds are that she won't change. That she will walk away from her kids and completely abandon them. Only time will tell what she is going to do. In the mean time I am going to focus on rescuing myself and fixing my own issues so that regardless of what happens between the two of us I will be in a position to have a better future, either with her or without her.

[Bananas]

It has been over 4 months for me and yep, my ex is still on my mind almost all of the time.  I think what is keeping me hung up is

1) I have to see him a lot, as we work together, so I can't have NC, I think NC would help me to detach faster

2) We were best friends before we dated for quite awhile, we saw each other or at least talked nearly every day for over two years.  I thought I knew him really well.  He told me this many times: "You are the only person who really knows me"  So the replaying of stuff he said/wrote in my head and how he is now, just trying to figure out was was "real" and what was "fake".  I am very analytical so this is making me crazy.

And like crystalclear said, these things too:

1. Have I misjudged him? (Lack of validation about BPD/NPD and passive aggressive)

2. Was 'I' who triggered this behavior in him?

2. When did the Discard begin?

3. Will marriage to a 'better' person change him?

Oktoberfest, I also have no desire to be with anyone, no one appeals to me either.  I feel like I can't trust anyone and it is just to much effort.  Hope that will pass. I don't want to be with him either though.  I could never trust him after he lied so much.

[flynavy]

octoberfest... . for me it wasn't till I discovered some things about myself that I recognized why I was so hung up on a relationship that was hurtful, deceitful, manipulative, and abusive!  I researched this disorder to death/ad nauseum, so armed with all of this information why was I still "hung up"!  Love your choice of words... . Hung up!  Hang ups are personal characteristics that only you/we can fix and work on.  It wasn't till I really got to know who I was... . how and why I made the decisions in my life... . that I was able begin to detach from this horribly toxic relationship (even to the most casual observer).  For me, I am an Adult Child of an Alcoholic!  Nothing was ever good enough for my father... . I would never amount to anything... . do ya think I became a Navy pilot cuz I always wanted to fly... . nope!  Also , protecting my mother was paramount!  I became the protector, the caregiver.  So can you see the attraction I had to a person with BPD/NPD who is a victim... . how the idealization of me was what I needed... . plus I just lost my wife to Ovarian Cancer after 32 years of a terrific marriage.  She quelled so much pain for me I was using her as much as she was using me... . only difference was my Love was for real!

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

I am hung up on the person he pretends to be, but clearly isn't.

The guy who I was friends with for a month before we got involved, and told me he wanted us to take an STD test before we slept together, because sex isn't that much of an issue to him. He isn't that type of guy, he is straight up, honest, and never cheated on any of his girlfriends.

Then I think back to what he told me about his serious porn habits at one stage, (not clear if he was single at that time either), his teen porn obsession, and all that. The jokes he would make about taking 'a certain ethnic group' 14 year old girl for a wife etc.

The other seriously inappropriate jokes he made, (and his justifications were that I had hurt him, so he was paying me back!), thing is, I wasn't saying or doing anything to hurt him on purpose!

I don't even know what he is doing to me right now?

I wonder why he is even trying to pretend he wants me as his partner, and wants to see me again, after cutting me out of his life for several weeks, (and saying it was me that cut him out!).

For the last 4 days or so, he has been ringing me every day, insisting of course that he really wants to see me, but every time that day comes around, something comes up, and he suggests leaving my visit until the next day.

Prior to that, he had assaulted me, damaged my property, threatened my life on the 10th of June, (his justification was that I told him he needed help), he ignored me for several days after this horrific event. Then on the 13th, he rung and insisted on replacing/paying for my smashed iphone. I knew he could in no way pay for this, given he cannot pay his own way now, so I told him that given the emergency of having no phone, I had already sorted that out thanks.

This seemed to enrage him, so he then went into a total denigration of his entire 3 years with me. I listened, (don't know why, and took inventory for the stressors on my side of things that didn't help.

Did I get that from him? NO.

He argued for a day, and abused me, so I pulled my house phone out, and ignored him for the rest of the day.

Next day, he rang and took a more humble stance, seemingly wanting to reconcile our union.

After the things he had screamed the day before, this was all totally confusing to me.

But I spoke with him on the phone for several days, (detached somewhat) and very sad. Found myself building that hope again, and knew I was a fool.

By the 16th June, he had been inviting me back to stay with him every day, and I had not made any concrete plans to do so, as I was afraid the same thing would happen again. I needed reassurance from him this time, that that night would never happen again.

I did not get it, all I got was him screaming at me his excuses to stay the same, not make the effort to change his behaviour. All I was looking for was an extension on his apology, and an intent to not wake me or abuse me like that ever.

He slammed his parents phone down in my ear, (damaging their phone too, as his Mother told me days later). I never heard from him again, and took it that it was now over between us, as he had never gone NC like this before.

I also felt he was sleeping with someone else, and even now, each day he phones me up, acts like we are still together, yet trawls through viagra ads in his spam, and local slut hookup site spam, and other such crap.

I discovered this by snooping, and yes, I know I shouldn't, but my instinct is pretty strong, and now I know why. I should never have doubted it.

For me, when he rings tomorrow, I will be telling him why it is now over for good. Please don't call me again.

[heartcoaster]

I'm hung up on wondering if I did everything I could to salvage my r/s?  Second guessing is natural and they say hindsight is 20/20, but when things go from great to over, one can't help but question themselves.  From the posts on here and reading I've done, it doesn't seem like anything short of remaining in bondage would have kept us intact, and that's no way to spend the rest of your life.  When I reached the definitive point of "no turning back", I set my sights on restoring myself and my happiness, even without a partner I shared that with for so long.

[flynavy]

To All... . forgot... . Why am I still here?  Because I am a protector/caregiver/co-dependent it does make me feel good to even think that my experience being in a beautiful loving caring relationship for 32 years and my experience with this insidious disorder could help others get through the pain and to encourage everyone here to never give up... . this life is a gift... . do not let someone with a disorder take that gift from you.  More importantly... . This gift is best if shared with someone... . your soulmate... . your lover... . your best friend all wrapped up in one person.  I know its real!  I had it for 32 years and have seen it so many times in my life... . has anyone here ever seen an elderly/experienced couple holding hands as they walk to the market!  I miss this the most and after getting to know me, I want it again and am willing to risk putting my emotions out there again at the risk of getting burned ... . but the reward is so worth any risk!

[simplyasiam]

im still hung up out of hope and want.

i know its all u[ to her if i ever see or hear from here aging and that sucks

6 years of being with her and her kids will not just go away

i do love the 3 of them and want them back in my life

i want them not need them i can and am living without them

[delusionalxox]

I am hung up on the self questioning, sense of injustice (after I gave and gave, I thought I'd get something back, not be dumped pregnant and in my hour of need and viciously dismissed and patronised... . ), also wondering how much was me, was he really such a total ass as he now seems. Should I call him to apologise for my part in it all? I have not, because I do know deep down that however depressed and irrational I am, he is at a whole new level.

I really forgave too much and I'm constantly arguing with myself over it- why couldn't I stop, is it because I am too clingy, too loyal, too hung up on sex, deceived by looks/charm/pretty words?

He lied horribly by the end and then just dumped me right in the cr*p- and blamed me for it too. It's like an experience of true evil and I can't get it out of my soul. I feel as if it invaded me too, as if the very worst of me has been magnified and as if I don't know where to start healing.

[causticdork]

I'm hung up on the good side of her.  Like the OP, I have no desire to resurrect the relationship.  I'm the one who ended it, and I've spent months refusing to take her back.  I'm not hoping for a recycle, and the thought of us being together as a couple again fills me with nothing but anxiety and dread.  Her as a partner is not something I'm still hung up on.  Her as my best friend is something I am.

Maybe we'll beat all odds and manage to stay friends, despite her attachment disorder.  Since we've split we've been through the ringer, repeatedly fighting and swearing we were done trying to be friends, but we always wind up talking things out because we miss each other.  We split at the end of March and we haven't gone more than five days without speaking since then.  And once the initial fighting was through, I started to get my friend back.  It's still not easy.  I don't trust her, and I know she has a lot of issues that I'll always have to deal with, but I'm hopeful that the more we settle into our role as friends, the less of the BPD I'll be hit with directly.

Maybe I'm being foolishly optimistic, but I do know the dangers and I'm certainly aware of what she's capable of.  I also know that last night I got a migraine so bad I couldn't move off the couch and she drove down to see me armed with instructional Youtube videos about trigger point therapy and facial massage and managed to make me feel better in an hour, when my migraines generally last for days. 

I doubt that she could ever be a good partner unless she really dedicates herself to therapy and getting better, but I think maybe she can be a good friend.  I hope so anyway.  And that's what's got me still hung up.  And of course I still love her, because it's only been a few months and she's the only girl in over thirty years that I've ever thought I'd spend the rest of my life with.  That part of it is a lot easier to distance myself from than the friendship at this point though. 

[bpdspell]

Great replies everyone.

I broke up with my ex so I'm not hung up on wanting the relationship back.  I want no parts of him because he is mentally ill. Had I stayed I would have given him permission to ruin my life.

I sometimes get melancholy or nostalgic about the happy memories and the intensity of what I shared with my ex. When it was beautiful it was amazing. I'm still healing and arriving at a place of peace about the whole ordeal. Detaching does require a lot of self-patience.  I also like sharing stories of life after BPD and helping others. No matter how many ways you slice it they are not the answer to our happiness.

Spell

[willtimeheal]

I am stuck because I still love my BPD or at least the idea of who she was. I have good days where I don't think about her much and then bad days where I can't get her out of my mind. I miss her an  the kids and the family we were when things were good. I have been out and meeting new people but I am not interested in anyone. And a big thing I hear is how do we trust someone again?  I think it comes down to trusting ourselves. We got wrapped up and sucked in. We made a poor choice an  it didn't turn out like we thought it would. We got played in a sense. you have to learn to trust yourself again and forgive yourself in order to more on with others. But I have a feeling this is easier said then done.

[Inside]

Octoberfest, …wow, you read my mind.  I’m sure you’ve found the following: https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Charred… I’ve never heard ‘this’ condition (our pain) described so well.  Thank you; it’s been copied and pasted to my ‘BPD archives’  

I suspect there are aspects of our personalities that we’d rather not focus on or acknowledge.  You likely described mine, “(like distant parents, some abuse, a generally fearful outlook on life).”   Yes…  your further explanation of the reasons and hooks is the reason I come back here.  I, after 3 weeks and 5 or 6 recycles over two years, and currently away from her - need to remind myself why it doesn’t work.

At first, I blamed myself.  She did!  Later, I confronted her – made it worse.  After couples counseling, no change.  When I discovered her BPD (researching the hell out of it), I dealt with her in a different way, though always taking another step back…  The combination of a ‘different approach’ and my stepping back obviously triggered her abandonment fears.  My fear? - that after she fled (again), I hadn’t explained what I’d learned about BPD, and that I needed to know if sharing that insight would have saved our relationship?  Next recycle, I shared - instant denial!

Since, I’ve accepted the fact she’s not well and likely never will be.  But my draw to her was great enough to allow for yet another recycle, a continuation of our relationship that has lasted less and less time.  This last being the shortest at only two weeks

I’ve had multiple opportunities to move on, and nearly did (with another woman) …before I allowed Miss BPD to ... . mess that up.  But with each death of our relationship, it’s gotten easier to move forward.  Never initially, but quicker each time.  I’ve learned, and with the help of folks around here (I’ll never be able to thank you all enough for sharing your experience and insight) … at least know ‘why I’m here,’ what I’m up against, and that ultimately – it’s best to be apart from a pwBPD.

Weird thing is, as messed up as she was, it’s seems she’s ‘set the bar’ too high for other women.  Gee, if they’re not going to instantly attach to me - ‘what’s their problem?’  But, it’s my problem.  It does feel as if I’m scarred by memories of my BPD love/r.  But it was never sustainable, or real?  ….such deep feelings of loss right now, dang... . :'(  What keeps me hooked?  Wanting it back, of course – sometimes the pain and all…  

[recoil]

I am no longer hung up.  I visit the site now to see if I can give back to the community that helped me, if ever so slightly.

For many months, false hope had me stuck. 

That was the "aha moment" for me recently.  When hope finally died, everything "clicked" and made sense.  I can't tell you how much better I feel now.

The ruminations are gone.  The anxiety is gone.  The "what ifs" are gone.  I'm at peace.  I'm back to being the person I was before the relationship.  I'm dating again and loving it.

My friends, life is good again.

It took six months for me to recover from a seventeen month "interaction" (as 2010 would say).  But it has happened and I know it will happen for everyone else who puts in the effort and time.

You will heal.

[Lao Tzu]

Nice post "Inside".  "Charred" has helped me a lot as well, especially as we share the history of years between our first contact and our first recycle (26 for him, 30 for me).  Getting to the point of understanding the psychodynamics underpinning this horror was tremendously important for me as well, and it has almost completely "slain the dragon" of my obsession.  On the other hand, I have to work (suddenly, after all these years), very closely with my pwBPD and I see that, even now, the Pavlovian conditioning is still there and pretty strong.  I was getting mad at myself for reacting so much to her (almost literally painful to shake her hand at the start of a meeting, for instance) until I realized that I have just never thought of myself as being even capable of an addiction, yet my feelings are just what I've heard addicts try to express about their lifelong need to fight their addiction.  I didn't hate the addicts and I'm starting to understand that, like them, I'll be fighting these reactions as long as I live, particularly when the "loaded syringe" smiles at me every few weeks, reminding me just how great that parental love really felt.

LT

[scuba02]

Because i'm selfish, self centered and self seeking... . It's my will that I want, not gods will for me... . Some things just aren't meant to be, and the sooner I realize that the sooner I can start to heal... . my problem is I want to arrange the people places and things in my life so they suit me... . My ex has made it clear she wants nothing to do with me and I for some reason don't want to agree with it... . I want closure (again something for me)... . Some things just are!   

I was so sick and tired of my relationship in the end, but could never let it go... . Now that i've been discarded, I want it back... .

Yes I did grow in love with my ex and I care for her immensely... . With all the pain involved why would anyone want to go back? Because they made us feel so very good and worthwhile... . She is beautiful, funny, smart, charismatic, great sex... . but was she a good partner?

I got lost while trying to save HER/US and forgot about one important person... . ME... . I essentially made her my higher power and am still like that today... .

For me the problem is inside not outside... . Think everyone should take a look there... . Unfortunately its the hardest and most painful place to go

I do love her and I love the idea of what we had... . Unfortunately she felt different and now I have no other choice but to let go   

[scuba02]

What i'm so hung up on is pretty simple... . In 18 years of dating/marriage I never felt as valued as I did with 1 year with my BPDex... . feel like such a fool for buying into it... . Heck I don't even like me that much

[winston72]

Scuba!  I laughed when I read your last line... . and I realized it is also incredibly insightful and so applicable for me.  Her energy, focus and warmth toward me overcame my deep discomfort and dislike toward myself.  And, the removal of that intoxicating salve was so very painful; it triggers a yearning to have it restored and a longing for it to return.  Thankfully, it is also a bright signal light directing me to where I need so much focus, work and healing.

Heck, I don't even like me that much!  Love that line... . hope to not have it apply to me one day!

[Deleted]

No closure, the fact that she moved on so quickly. I was discarded right away even though I broke up with her. Perhaps I may not even exist in her mind anymore. That bothered me the most, how someone could discard another human without any effort.

[scuba02]

Thanks winston 72- When I think back, thats really how I feel... . And yes, definitely have to work in that are

For me, an alcoholic in early sobriety (18 months yesterday) the idealization was the best feeling in the world... . To have someone believe in me when I didn't believe in myself was so refreshing... . It took so much of the pain away at very painful time... . A year later it the worst thing that could have happened to me and my self esteem... . Lucky i'm in a much better place now and hey, I didn't have to drink over it... . now thats progress for me

[willtimeheal]

The fact that she  is with someone else but continues to text me and tell me she loves me and wants me. She says she is not happy with her new love and misses me. It confuses me and give  me hope and prevents me from moving on.

[danley]

I suppose a lot of us are still in different levels of shock and confusion to the behavior of the ex. Although I know I have grown over the last months but there are still times where I forget myself. I forget that I can't be myself around my ex anymore. Or at least not completely or too much right now.

Presently I feel hung up in confusion. I mean, I was angry, hurt, sad, and confused when my ex ended things abruptly between us. I felt all those things when he painted me black and treated me hot and cold. I'm not angry anymore. I still feel hurt but the pain has subsided. I am still sad when I think about how much I miss my ex. When I see him and things are going well between us, I have to put my feelings for him on lockdown because sometimes I get caught up in the moment. And then I remind myself that I don't even know if the feelings are mutual anymore. But right now I feel mostly confused as to where things stand between us since he's reverted back to the person I fell in love with many years ago again. I feel hung up on confusion because I'm scared he might snap one day and go back to painting me black and raging like he did for three months after breaking up with me. It was the worst experience ever for me. I have never been traumatized like that suddenly from someone who claimed to love me all those years. The buildup of his unaddressed anger, guilt, fear, and shame with himself was the culprit. I feel hung up on confusion because I feel like I don't know how to read him anymore after his nervous breakdown onto me. I feel hung up on confusion because my heart tells me he is making an effort to be a better man but I don't want to assume it's because he wants to reconcile. I am not going to bring the subject up as we have been getting along but I have to be honest and say that I'm not sure if I want to be just friends. For now I'm just keeping a low profile and keeping my feelings to myself and letting HIM do the reaching out. I feel like if I do more than him that he'll scare off. BOttom line is that i love him, miss him but I don't want to get hurt again.

[Lao Tzu]

I really get what you're saying Danley.  It's so very hard to think straight!

Are they really better? Most of the topics discussed here will suggest they don't get better without therapy, although some authors say otherwise.

Do they really have BPD or (like most people discussed) do they just demonstrate traits?

They are pretty intelligent and very practiced in performing their dramas; When they said "X", were there hidden intentions? Can I figure them out?

In every case where I think I'm uncovering their hidden intentions, am I just making crazy cr@p up myself and their intentions are exactly what they say they are?

You can second guess yourself crazy and your approach to be passive and let him come to you makes sense to a point.  I think most people here would say, though, that it would be better to absolutely not let him back in. 

I know you love him and miss him -- and what you didn't say was that you want him back, but we both know you do.  The conflict that is leading to the confusion is that your instincts are screaming at you as they try to keep you from more hurt.  That part of you knows that you need to never let him into your life again.  You need to listen to that warning and you will when you're ready to hear it.  No one here doesn't still love, miss and want their pwBPD back.  Many have just gotten good at understanding what is truly going on, as that's what your instincts already know.  Good luck. You deserve it.

LT

[delusionalxox]

From charred's fabulous post, which is so very helpful:

'I think the hater is the true personality... . damaged to the point of being mean as any junk yard dog.  The official view is that the BPD people don't have a core self... . they were half baked enough not to develop a sense of self... . and so they change like a chameleon to act like whoever they are around.”

I actually saw a split self, almost a multiple personality. I wonder if others had a similar experience.

There was the passionate, sexually obsessed lover (the obsessions became more and more extreme and pornographic the more he thought I would 'take'... . and at a certain point even this liberal old gal stepped back a bit- he was so clearly using extreme sexual fantasies to anaesthetise himself and 'save' the good part of our bond).

There was the cold, mean hater with nil empathy, who would say utterly vile and dismissive things not only about me but about others. Often friends or family, who were always 'letting him down' and disillusioning him: ! This would erupt into intense, frightening rages quite frequently, when he was criticised or 'abandoned' (which to him could mean me reading a book in front of him  ); and then I would experience the abuser  who screamed in my face, pulled my duvet off me in bed, yelled at me through the bathroom door and pursued me in the street when I tried to get away.

The saddest thing I remember is the completely lost and often dissociated little boy I would see crying desperately for 5 minutes over his lost grandfather or the sufferings of his abandoning mother  :'( (the one who left him age 5 to go live with a lover hundreds of miles away) and then abruptly cutting off into a detached and sometimes even hypnotised state where I could not reach him at all. I have never seen such intense and childlike emotions in a man. Tears would literally burst out of him and then just stop. This terrible abandonment pain he clearly felt was one of the major hooks. He needed me so so much, how could I hurt him?

But in the end he abandoned me, pregnant with his kid. Go figure!

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

Big Thanks to Charred, your post explaining it all was brilliant and obviously hit home with all of us reading and posting here.

And hi to Servalan83

Everytime I read your posts, I see so much of the exBP in my life. The only difference is mine never cried in front of me, he is of course as mean as a junk yard dog, and he always has an excuse for acting like that, he calls it pressure.



My exBP has actually been calling me over the last week or so. It's like the relationship is dying, and all he wants to do is make it worse not better, then blame me and my life circumstances for it all going pear shaped in the first place.

It all started on the 3/7 after him going all NC on me for two weeks, (1st time ever he has gone that long). Every day since then, he has been on the phone daily, flitting between denigrating his whole experience with me, and saying we are no longer together, to saying we are, and have been.

I know this cycle will continue, as long as I let it happen. But for now, I am waiting to see if indeed he begins to do some of the things he needs to do for himself. He needs to find a job, and get out of his parents house, and he needs to shift his focus.

I agree that returning to stay at my house is not an option for him, (I have said I don't want to listen to his denigrations of the people here) just merely I accept that he doesn't want to be here. I also know, that as much as I would like him to be sane enough to live here and benefit from that, he is too dangerous and unstable as he is right now.

Physically, I have not seen him now for 4 weeks, and although I my aching heart bleeds to be in his arms, there is always going to be an excuse why I cannot be in them for long or at all.

I am told that it's because his car is broken at present, his parents are mean to him, he is starving, he has no money, the world is cruel, etc.

The endless, eternal excuses and justifications for being a cruel unloving **** just never end, and are always justified totally, as is his abuse. But all you hear, is how everyone is abusing him! The whole world is abusing him, the poor wee soul... . It makes me sick actually, sick to the heart.

In fact I really don't know why I sit and listen to his absolute pack of lies. He lies to me often, and then gets angry when he is asked about why he lies, yet he insists he doesn't lie, and is a straight up person. I don't see that, and I certainly don't hear it. I see two different men inside one man, and never know from one moment to the next, which one will visit.

I am being given all these promises about us having a nice day together next week, perhaps, and every day this week he has asked that I come visit and spend time, he would love to see me etc. Then, will come the excuse as to why I cannot come.

You know, I really want to go see him, but I am afraid too, because I don't want to be abused anymore, on the phone is bad enough, with the language he speaks, but in person, well I think this time, I would just die.

I feel that if he asks me to go see him, and I do, and we meet in public and he abuses me? I think I would walk under a bus right now. Such is how I hurt.

[delusionalxox]

Hey rollercoaster.

yeah I think they are definitely similar people but my ex seems to have had more of a Narc veneer of charm and introversion. (Although I bet your ex can charm birds off trees in the right mood). His family generally support him completely, but although being supportive to them too often he can turn on them incredibly quickly.

With his mother, another aging waif type who constantly looks to him to do things for her, he is incredibly bad tempered and verbally abusive and she just takes it mostly. With his sister, on whose couch he is currently living, he is alternately quite kind and incredibly childish.

I received an email a few months back whining and complaining about how she had asked him to get up and make the couch in the morning (in her own living room!) turn lights off and clean up after himself. He was outraged like a 15 year old! And he is 36! That was one of the final  red-flags for me. I knew I could not live with him again. He treated me just the same way- like the very much needed but 'unfair' mother of a teenager!

'The endless, eternal excuses and justifications for being a cruel unloving **** just never end, and are always justified totally, as is his abuse. But all you hear, is how everyone is abusing him! The whole world is abusing him, the poor wee soul... . It makes me sick actually, sick to the heart.'

Oh yeah... . you know I got these too even on the day I had to terminate the pregnancy of HIS child. Which he never recognised.

Ex and I did the cycle you are in for years. It ended when I drew boundary after boundary but also when (as I think) he found other sources of supply- a new much admired male friend he was 'going to do projects with' (always his big thing, which ever comes to naught) and no doubt lots of female admirers (which he always had, usually much younger women who didn't notice his immaturity).

I kind of wish he was still bothering me- it's the unutterable coldness of what he's done, that really gets to me- just dumping me pregnant without a word. Appalling.

I feel that if I'm that stupid as to put up with that for 3 years ... . and excuse it repeatedly, and believe his lies about friendship... . I don't know roller I really don't. I know he should feel bad about himself but he doesn't I'm sure. It's me who feels like hit.

You know I agree you should just cut him off and go NC. Sex and good times with these people however much we want it is toxic. It just recreates the sick bond we have where we go back for more punishment.

[clover528]

I have sit and pondered this many times. Daily even. Why am I so hung up on this abusive philandering lying addicted mean spirited man. ( wrote that as a reminder of just a few of the things he did to me. My heart doesnt want to hear those things) Then I realize, he is very ill. So all the prior mentioned things I excuse away. ( Thats the heart speaking ) I am hung up on the attention, affection, touch, friendship, conversations, the cooking, the cleaning, the singing and music, the coffee and walks, the intensity of passion, not just physical but in everyday activities. ( again that is the heart speaking). These are my true hang ups.

Now to listen to my head. He was mirroring me. He was a very good listener because he had to be to keep me hooked. it became about his needs very quickly in hindsight. I was hurting' when he called and he was  a welcome distraction from my inner struggles. I didnt have the approval attention or much affection from my alcoholic mother and workaholic father. The affirmation he gave in the beginning was euphoric. I was in a purple haze, and there are days when the flashbacks last longer than mere moments. But I am improving.

All that is what keeps me hung up. Those are the highlights anyway. I know there is more. I just didnt think writing a novel here would be beneficial.

Thanks for this post. It has had be doing some deep thinking. I didnt write about my attempts to resolve these hang ups, but I am doing some work currently to address the root cause. Hanging in there and being strong daily.

[bb12]

I think we are hung up because something about what they said or did resonates as truth.

I think they do something that we have spent a lifetime learning to mitigate.

In my case, the silent treatment and speed at which they moved on really hit a worthiness nerve. Feelings of not being good enough or perhaps a bit broken seems to be confirmed when someone we loved can discard like trash - like we are not worth their time.

If we work on the thought behind the feeling and examine that thought, then the pull abates. With my T I have done a lot of work on self worth. Not only will it invalidate the hurtful message they are trying to send us, it will prevent us being a match for abusive people ever again. The red flags we avoided as we got deeper into it, will be bigger and brighter and we will back out before we are too invested.

My other theory, is that we are other directed and need other people to help define us. We need to trust ourselves more. Believe in us over them. Know at a core level we are right and that other peoples' views of us are not correct. And our own view is.

BB12