And if they're so afraid of abandonment why do they abandon you?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

This is another big question I'm struggling with.  He was always so afraid that i would leave him eventually.  He was positive.  Said someday you'll get tired of my BS and go.  Did it not so very long ago with tears in his eyes.  He says he ended it because he's afraid of me walking out on him again and he couldn't handle it.  But I don't believe that.  That was just orchestrating the break up and making it my fault.  The only conclusion I can come to is that they're only afraid of people they love abandoning them.  And that he had decided at some point that he didn't love me or want to be with me anymore.  I guess that's probably the truth.  It's a hard truth to accept.

[Emelie Emelie]

This is another big question I'm struggling with.  He was always so afraid that i would leave him eventually.  He was positive.  Said someday you'll get tired of my BS and go.  Did it not so very long ago with tears in his eyes.  He says he ended it because he's afraid of me walking out on him again and he couldn't handle it.  But I don't believe that.  That was just orchestrating the break up and making it my fault.  The only conclusion I can come to is that they're only afraid of people they love abandoning them.  And that he had decided at some point that he didn't love me or want to be with me anymore.  I guess that's probably the truth.  It's a hard truth to accept.

[Sin_M]

It's probably all of those things, really. Also, people with BPD have problems with something called “object permanence.” If you have ever had a baby, you know that if you play peek-a-boo with a young baby, they will cry for the second that the blanket covers your face and hides you from them but smile and laugh when they see you again. They will also cry when you go out of the room or they can’t see you anymore. This is because they don’t understand that even though they can’t see you, you are still there. Playing peek-a-boo and other games like this teaches them object permanence. People with BPD have this same problem emotionally; they have trouble “remembering” someone’s love and connection when the person is not there. Because of this, they cannot be confident that a person cares about them and are always anxious and unsure. Because of this they are also able to walk away remarkably easily in some cases because they truly embody “out of sight, out of mind.” The past (even the very recent past) seems impossibly distant to them; it is often hard for them to remember and emotional connection with others is lost very easily.

[seeking balance]

This is another big question I'm struggling with.  He was always so afraid that i would leave him eventually.  He was positive.  Said someday you'll get tired of my BS and go.  Did it not so very long ago with tears in his eyes.  He says he ended it because he's afraid of me walking out on him again and he couldn't handle it.  But I don't believe that.  That was just orchestrating the break up and making it my fault.  The only conclusion I can come to is that they're only afraid of people they love abandoning them.  And that he had decided at some point that he didn't love me or want to be with me anymore.  I guess that's probably the truth.  It's a hard truth to accept.

The fear of abandonment also has a flip-side that is the fear of engulfment.  The book, "I hate you, don't leave me" really sums up this dynamic.

Trying to apply logic to a mental illness is hard to do... . rather than make sense of it, try focusing on the FACTS of the disorder - the articles on this sight are a great resource.

Why don't you believe what he told you?  Having read articles from pwBPD - it is common theme they do leave before they are left.  Whether the abandonment is real or perceived, leaving gives the BPD a sense of control over already out of control emotions.  Sounds to me like he was telling you his truth.

[eniale]

A pwBPD has a real conflict -- they greatly fear abandonment but are terrified of emotional closeness.  My ex cheated on me exactly one month to the day we had our most wonderful, emotionally close weekend.  I believe they can't handle the anxiety engendered by emotional closeness so run from it.  In my case, although initially shattered, I maintained 4 months NC -- until he got back in touch.  Now I was no longer a threat to him, and I have reason to believe his new woman was not all he thought she was, hence, fond memories of me.  As someone said, they don't completely abandon you, just put you in a box up on the shelf "just in case" & if things not going well for them, they have a go at "recycling" you.  Except I will never forget how much he hurt me.  It took quite a while but I have moved on.  The first few months are really tough and very painful, but you can do it!  Read some of the stories here of those of us who had finally had enough.  I wasted my love on him.  He was never capable of real, mature love.  Good luck!

[crystalclear]

  Emelie Emelie,

I have a question for you, let's say you were frustrated of the r/s or for some other reason realised the r/s was not going anywhere and its good for both of you to move on and desolve the r/s.

How would you handle this? And what if the other party in the r/s is not ready to give up - what would you do?

I had the same question to ask myself when my exbf abandoned me because he no longer had conviction in our r/s and he called it off, moved on.

[j4c]

It's probably all of those things, really. Also, people with BPD have problems with something called “object permanence.” If you have ever had a baby, you know that if you play peek-a-boo with a young baby, they will cry for the second that the blanket covers your face and hides you from them but smile and laugh when they see you again. They will also cry when you go out of the room or they can’t see you anymore. This is because they don’t understand that even though they can’t see you, you are still there. Playing peek-a-boo and other games like this teaches them object permanence. People with BPD have this same problem emotionally; they have trouble “remembering” someone’s love and connection when the person is not there. Because of this, they cannot be confident that a person cares about them and are always anxious and unsure. Because of this they are also able to walk away remarkably easily in some cases because they truly embody “out of sight, out of mind.” The past (even the very recent past) seems impossibly distant to them; it is often hard for them to remember and emotional connection with others is lost very easily.

This is an excellent post. I think its important to keep in mind that even if we've been abandoned & replaced by our pwBPD, these underlying issues haven't disappeared.

[Emelie Emelie]

Crystal - I hear you.  I've asked myself that same question.  Relationships just don't work out sometimes.  People change their minds.  So why can't I just accept that this guy didn't want to be in a relationship with me anymore and move on?  Probably because that's not what he's telling me.  It's all mixed messages.  It's all the crazy. 

I know trying to "make sense" of this is making me crazy.  I need to really just let go of my need to "figure it out". 

And to Seeking Balance:  You're right.  Why don't I take him at his word?  It's a lot easier if I do.  And I really have no reason not to.  I know that he still has feelings for me.  I know he's hurting too.  I know he's very ashamed of some of his behaviors.  I know my walking out did bring up a lot of pain for him... . whether he was ambivalent about the relationship or not.

I also know, aside from his BPD, that even though I loved him very much this was not the right guy for me.  There were other reasons.  I would have never married him.  And if I'm really honest with myself he knew that too.

I guess the "why" that I need to figure out is why I was so devastated by this break up.  Why it triggered this abandonment terror in me?  Where did all that gut wrenching sorrow and panic come from?  I was POSITIVE he was leaving me for someone else.  I was wrong.  But I made myself crazy about it.  Why am I so Co-Dependent?  Is this the Second Stage of Detachment?  Self-Inquiry?   

The good news is (with much thanks to the people on this board) that I am starting to feel a little stronger.  And while I am I need to figure out a strategy to deal with the pain and the panic when it comes... . because I'm not done with that yet.  I think I'll post about that... . I could use some advice on that too.

[motherof1yearold]

To answer your question,

they leave because a belief that them leaving you will lessen the pain, and give them control over the situation. It also can help to validate their belief of you being 'all bad' and them being 'all good' .

[crystalclear]

I guess the "why" that I need to figure out is why I was so devastated by this break up.  Why it triggered this abandonment terror in me?  Where did all that gut wrenching sorrow and panic come from?  I was POSITIVE he was leaving me for someone else.  I was wrong.  But I made myself crazy about it.  Why am I so Co-Dependent?  Is this the Second Stage of Detachment?  Self-Inquiry?   

The good news is (with much thanks to the people on this board) that I am starting to feel a little stronger.  And while I am I need to figure out a strategy to deal with the pain and the panic when it comes... . because I'm not done with that yet.  I think I'll post about that... . I could use some advice on that too.

You are on the right path Em Em!

Introspection is a healthy sign and helps us recognize how we could better ourselves.  It is very normal to question other aspects of the relationship, particularly the other person's behavior. There is a fine line that differentiates our realities to theirs, the reactions could be very different and hence a bit shocking to us when they leave. The 10 myths of break-up are very informative and true. Truth is hard to accept, and it takes time to realise that we can only do so much that we did. It took me 4 months to come to terms with the abandonment. Time does lessen the wounds to a great extent.

Keep questioning, let your head process the events, and emotions - be honhest about it. At the same time focus on healing, take help of a professional if you feel the need. Read about the disorder, resources on overcoming the break up, post your feelings and thoughts - it helps.

Stay strong  

CC

[eniale]

"I guess the 'why" I need to figure out is why I was so devastated by this breakup."

Good idea to research "Trauma Bonding"  -- if your ex was truly a pwBPD, chances are you were trauma bonded to them.

Any breakup is painful, but if you were trauma bonded, it is devastating.  I was "walking on eggshells" (sign of dealing with someone who has BPD) for a year; trying desperately to keep things on an even keel, because when they were good, they were very good, but my ex could "turn on a dime" -- never knew what would set him off.  Never realized I spent a year of my life living in fear, but that is what it was... . similar to PTSD.  Because of this, you feel as if you are ripped apart by the breakup.  And often the breakup is totally lacking in respect; the BPD person will do something outrageous that stuns and hurts you  very badly.  Sometimes Trauma Bonding also referred to as "Stockholm Syndrome"... . you are living in fear, totally in thrall to the other person, but do not realize it.

[Candace30]

So why can't I just accept that this guy didn't want to be in a relationship with me anymore and move on?  Probably because that's not what he's telling me.  It's all mixed messages.  It's all the crazy. 

Are we dating the same person?  Lol.  Usually I'm very good (when I'm dealing with a HEALTHY person) at deciphering whether someone is into me/not into me, and leaving a relationship that's not working.  I think the BPD relationship is particularly hard to walk away from because you SENSE that they REALLY DO want to be with you, but then they break-up with you, push you away, cheat on you, distance themselves from you, and do everything they can to sabotage and undermine the relationship.  It's all mixed messages and it's all crazy making behavior.  They tell you one thing, and then do another.  Then do one thing, and tell you another.  And all along, you love this person and want to make it work.  So you hold on to the hope of all hopes that it actually can work.

My ex would tell me  - "I love you so much but I ___ up every relationship I'm in.  Therefore, I'd rather break up with you now and end things civilly, then to have you emotionally scarred and hating me like all of my other ex's".  So, we'd break up, but he'd still be there in my face, calling me, telling me he loved me, telling me that he wanted to marry me, and he wanted me to have his children.  But in the same breath, he'd also tell me that he was toxic and sick, and if he ever got too close to me, he would hurt me.  He always said that he was trying to protect me from him.  And it was very confusing to me because he had this incredible fear of hurting me, and I felt that it was all in his mind.  He hurt me MORE by constantly pushing me away, than he ever did from being around me. 

Of course, my girlfriends, who know nothing about borderline personality disorder, would quote from the latest relationship "experts", "If someone tells you they don't want to be with you, they're just not that into you", "If someone breaks up with you, they're just not that into you".  I know at one point, like you, I started to ask myself, "Is it really that he's just not that into ME?"

But I'm not going to go against what I know in my heart to be true.  Maybe if we were dealing with healthy people, this would be the case.  But we are not dealing with healthy people; we are dealing with borderlines.

You should just accept him at his word.  He is most likely telling you the truth.  I know I doubted my ex's words.  It took me 3 years to realize that he was telling me the truth!  And all along, my gut kept telling me, "he's telling you the truth!"  I guess I just didn't want to believe it because it was easier to believe that there was something wrong with ME that made him not want to be with me vs. the reality - he has borderline personality disorder.         



   

[Emelie Emelie]

Thanks Candace - I'm trying to take him at his word.  And when I'm not being an emotional mess I believe it.  And the one thing I could not tell him is that he was wrong... . that I would never leave him.  Because eventually I would have.  I just couldn't take it anymore.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't have hurt any less two or three months or years down the road.  Probably worse.  I knew I had to get out I just couldn't bring myself to do it.  And things were getting worse.  His hitty behaviors were escalating. 

[Emelie Emelie]

And by the way Candace... . mine said the same things to me.  Early in the relationship he kept saying he'd rather just end it now than deal with more pain the longer it went on.  And that he didn't want to keep hurting me.  And I think on some level he meant all of it. 

[snappafcw]

Emelie my ex girlfriend said the same thing a couple of times very early... . Looking back I should of let her go rather than convince her Id stand by her through anything... .

Love doesn't conquer all

[Candace30]

Emelie Emelie and Snappafcw, mine said the same things very early on too.  I didn't believe him.  Because really, who says that kind of thing?  I thought he was giving me the "it's not you, it's me" (but REALLY it's YOU) breakup talks.  I don't regret the relationship because it taught me a lot about myself.  But if I'd listened to him early on, I could have saved myself a lot of emotional pain. 

The more he told me these things, the more I wanted to stay with him longer and convince him that I would never hurt him or leave him.  Though realistically, like you said Emelie Emelie, I probably would have left eventually.  Because as much as I loved him (and still do), he's not the kind of man that I ever envisioned myself married to.  Not as he is today.  It's funny how you can love someone so much and fight so hard to be with them, but also know that they are not the best choice for you long term.

Sometimes, I thought to myself that even though my ex was supposed to be the one with the illness, that at times he thought more clearly and rationally than me.  Perhaps he was being more honest with himself than I was.  These people know themselves.  They've lived with themselves their whole lives.  They know who they are - what they think, what they feel, and all that they are capable of.  But still we believe that our love is enough to change them, even when they show (and in our cases, TELL US, that it's not).

 

[Emelie Emelie]

OMG Candace!  I had the same thoughts.  That maybe he was being more honest with himself than I was.  But you know I read the books he gave me and tried to deal with his rages and abuse by making him feel loved.  By making him feel secure.  While all the time I was feeling more and more insecure. 

I'm angry tonight.  I was so mortified by my clingy behavior after the break up.  But tonight I'm angry at his behavior.  Raging at me because I went out on a date after he dumped me.  Offering me a ride home when my car was in the shop ONLY because he wanted sex.  Then telling me he'd like to have a "last" night with me when I didn't "cry through sex".  Telling me he'd like to have a drink with him when I could see him with "no issues" (mine), "no drama" (mine).  I hope to God he does call me for a drink soon so I can tell him hey, no issues, no drama... . I just really have no desire to see you.

 

[Clearmind]

My ex was very perceptive - he knew I was having a tough time in the relationship. He left before I could leave him - maybe he felt more empowered that way.

He knew the pattern because he had been there so many times before. Relationships always ended in spectacular fashion so he knew ours would be no different. There was also an element of my ex that admired and respected me - albiet sometimes hated me - he knew he brought people down and his shame could not fathom the thought that he would be responsible for that - his pride depended on it.

In any case I thank him tremendously for letting me go because at the time I didn't have the strength to do for myself. My grief was momentary, the happiness and self worth I have now, because of my experience, is for life.

[Candace30]

My ex was very perceptive - he knew I was having a tough time in the relationship. He left before I could leave him - maybe he felt more empowered that way.

He knew the pattern because he had been there so many times before. Relationships always ended in spectacular fashion so he knew ours would be no different. There was also an element of my ex that admired and respected me - albiet sometimes hated me - he knew he brought people down and his shame could not fathom the thought that he would be responsible for that - his pride depended on it.

In any case I thank him tremendously for letting me go because at the time I didn't have the strength to do for myself. My grief was momentary, the happiness and self worth I have now, because of my experience, is for life.

So true Clearmind.  Some people say that BPD's lack empathy, but sometimes I wonder if him letting me go was one of the most selfless and loving things that my ex could have done.  Especially given the fact that he didn't want to let me go and he knows I didn't want to end the relationship.

Like you said Clearmind, he knew the pattern because he had been there so many times before.  He tells me that he has emotionally scarred quite a few really great women with his patterns and behaviors.  I held on because I wanted to prove to him that I wouldn't be one of the women that he emotionally scarred.  I wanted our story to have a happy ending.  I wanted my love to be the thing that "saved" him.

Sometimes I think that his breaking up with me was the most loving thing he ever did towards me.     

[bb12]

It all comes down to control: both the pwBPD and the non.

As the non, I rescued, groomed, paid, fixed. But all to control. The unwritten rule was that if I do these things, you behave the way I expect.

But a pwBPD has very little in their control... . hell, they can't even control their emotions. So they develop a repetoire that is tried and tested. And they stick to the best ones. These are usually victim-based and designed to illicit a response from the "other directed" or codependent non.

My ex did some pretty awful things toward the end and forced me to break it off. Looking back I am sure he could not have ended it himself and would have continued in the increasingly toxic dance. But by forcing me to do it, he could remain the victim and blame me for everything.

The other thing to note with their modality is that "power over" is a form of control. If they can cause you fear, anxiety or neediness, they will do it. Supply is supply. So the silent treatment and other nasty passive aggressive things are often done as a last resort for permanent power over and feeling that they got to control the last dynamic of the relationship

BB12

[VeryFree]

Mine knew I was willing to fight for our r/s. Even went to see a T myself, to get te learn myself better and to learn how I could improve myself, so I could contribute more to the r/s.

Probably came to close because of this. Her harrassment became more intense and eventually she tried to set me up. She didn't succeed really, but managed to have me leave the house. From then on she played the victim, even when she was still harrassing me, stealing from me, lying and so on.

[TigerEye]

Put as simply as I can, all it takes is for the pwBPD to perceive (remember that they suffer from distorted perceptions) that you are going to abandon them. What a pwBPD fears most is being alone (which would happen if you did abandon them), so to ensure they are not, in the face of your perceived imminent abandonment, they move to a new attachment.

What drives that perception is a trip into the physcopathology of a pwBPD which takes a lot to get your head around, but I suggest looking at the posts of 2010 if you want a clearer picture, they've explained a lot to me.

[MarkMo]

To answer your question,

they leave because a belief that them leaving you will lessen the pain, and give them control over the situation. It also can help to validate their belief of you being 'all bad' and them being 'all good' .

That would definitely explain my situation. It was just all so sudden. She says that she just couldn't deal with the negativity of the last 5 years and has gone on to lie incredibly and tell her bf how horrible of a person I am. She always said that I had to control everything but I was never really in control. Now she can control her new bf. it's tough

[tailspin]

Em,

I totally get your confusion; why would your ex do the one thing to you that they fear the most?  Usually, people don't.  We "do unto others" and try not to inflict the pain we know hurts so much.  We say "I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy" and we mean it.  But people with mental illness don't have this ability to understand what it feels like to you and me because what it feels like to them is so overwhelming and all-consuming. 

I think they try really hard to deflect the abandonment pain onto us in an effort to avoid it completely.  I also think they believe, in their disordered mind, that one of these times it's going to work and their pain will be gone.

Those suffering are compelled to repeat patterns even when they know deep down the result is going to be the same.  Keep focusing on you   because pretty soon you're going to understand enough about this disorder to start working on you.

tailspin

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Emelie,

Love that subject line which sums up BPD so well in a nutshell.

I used to ponder what I view as the paradoxes of a pwBPD, such as:

They seek love, yet behave in an unloving fashion;

They want closeness, yet will push you away (hard);

They seek serenity, yet cultivate confusion and chaos;

They want security, yet behave in reckless fashion;

They seek friendship, yet pick fights with others;

They want acceptance, yet judge others harshly; Etc.

The list list could go on and on . . .

Like what you said above, BB and tailspin.

Thanks to all,

Lucky Jim

[motherof1yearold]

To answer your question,

they leave because a belief that them leaving you will lessen the pain, and give them control over the situation. It also can help to validate their belief of you being 'all bad' and them being 'all good' .

That would definitely explain my situation. It was just all so sudden. She says that she just couldn't deal with the negativity of the last 5 years and has gone on to lie incredibly and tell her bf how horrible of a person I am. She always said that I had to control everything but I was never really in control. Now she can control her new bf. it's tough

Sounds like projection to me! And the dreaded smear campaign!