Do they always play the victim card?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm a few weeks out... . shaky with a lot of ups and downs. I'm beginning to see my faults but I fear I may still be in the fog. I'm curious to know if anyone on here experienced a BPD who played the victim in everything? They have to play the victim role. If so, was that a major factor in staying in a destructive relationship?

[Iamdizzy]

I'm a few weeks out... . shaky with a lot of ups and downs. I'm beginning to see my faults but I fear I may still be in the fog. I'm curious to know if anyone on here experienced a BPD who played the victim in everything? They have to play the victim role. If so, was that a major factor in staying in a destructive relationship?

[snappafcw]

With me it definitely was. I excused all her neglective and abusive behaviour ect because she had a tough life at home and an abusive upbringing. I sympathise with my ex girlfriend still but 100% no excuse for treating me with no respect so yes I definitely was in the fog.

[MammaMia]

Iamdizzy

In a word... . "yes".  AND everything bad in their lives is "someone else's fault". 

They take no responsibility.  This is a common tool used to manipulate others.

First, I want to welcome you to the BPD Family.  Please take the time to review some of the educational materials available here.  I think you will find them helpful in answering your questions.   BPD is a very complex disorder.

Second, we are all here to help you.  Posting on the boards will give you tremendous insight into what others who love pwBPD are struggling with.  They are also a great place to vent with people who understand how frustrating life can be.

Once you have been brought up-to-speed on BPD, you may be able to make a more informed decision about your relationship  Sadly, this disorder affects everyone around the person afflicted with it.  Something I suspect you already know.

We are glad you are here.  Please let us know what we can do to make your entry comfortable. It takes lots of support from others to tolerate a BPD relationship.   We take care of each other. 

[thisyoungdad]

My soon to be ex wife sure does. Just last week at the attorneys she made a point to blame "my lack of boundaries" on why she has to go 5 days without seeing our daughter. She forgets that is the only parenting plan she will have with me. She forgets she attacked me at the park the last time we saw each other outside the attorneys, and right before we had this huge new shake up and no contact order put in place. Yet she is the victim of me, the abuser. I eventually and this was only recently have had to accept that she will play that card with me, she still does about her first ex almost 6 years later, and she will do it with the next. This is a huge growth area for me because it reminds me that it is SO not personal and for whatever reason that is not easy to grasp for me.

[Iamdizzy]

Thank you guys for your posts and mammamia   thank you for the warm welcome, not a lot of people understand the pain these relationships leave in the wake.

I've been heavily reading on BPD on here and other websites and it's apparent to me that they do not take responsibility for their actions and *IF* they do take fault they rapidly shift the major part of the blame onto someone else, I.e. - I understand I was bad to so and so but SO AND SO MADE ME LIKE THAT!.

Do you three think that deep down or at least somewhere down the road they do realize their pugnacious and destructive behaviors?

[seeking balance]

I'm curious to know if anyone on here experienced a BPD who played the victim in everything? They have to play the victim role. If so, was that a major factor in staying in a destructive relationship?

This is a great question - let's see it through the BPD lens to understand.

In a pwBPD mind - they really are the victim.  Having an unstable sense of self and rapidly fluctuating emotions has to be exhausting and overwhelming... . as such, minor things to us feel very big to them at times.

Victims get sympathy for the most part - this is a learned behavior and has been successful in getting people hooked.  Most of us very much liked the "I am different, I won't be like that, I can solve the problem" role ... . especially when in the drug of idealizing.

It's not a card - it is a staple to surviving for many pwBPD.

Most of us are not detached enough, have good enough boundaries to see when a pwBPD may need validation of an emotion - as such, many times we did "persecute" them (in their minds) in not validating feelings.  Is this our fault - not really, it's not like any of us have ever really had to learn about this stuff until the chaos was too much to bear.  This is how we move from the savior into the persecutor role so effortlessly in the BPD mind.

[Bananas]

I'm curious to know if anyone on here experienced a BPD who played the victim in everything? They have to play the victim role. If so, was that a major factor in staying in a destructive relationship?

This is a great question - let's see it through the BPD lens to understand.

In a pwBPD mind - they really are the victim.  Having an unstable sense of self and rapidly fluctuating emotions has to be exhausting and overwhelming... . as such, minor things to us feel very big to them at times.

Victims get sympathy for the most part - this is a learned behavior and has been successful in getting people hooked.  Most of us very much liked the "I am different, I won't be like that, I can solve the problem" role ... . especially when in the drug of idealizing.

It's not a card - it is a staple to surviving for many pwBPD.

Most of us are not detached enough, have good enough boundaries to see when a pwBPD may need validation of an emotion - as such, many times we did "persecute" them (in their minds) in not validating feelings.  Is this our fault - not really, it's not like any of us have ever really had to learn about this stuff until the chaos was too much to bear.  This is how we move from the savior into the persecutor role so effortlessly in the BPD mind.

SB, thank you for explaining this so clearly.  I have been on this board for awhile and am always learning something new but now at the point where I am focusing more on myself rather than my ex.  You just helped me let a lot of guilt go.

[MammaMia]

Iamdizzy

No.  This behavior is all part of the disorder process.  In BPD, the wiring inside the brain has gone awry.  Even in brief moments of stability, pwBPD may actually sound like they understand how they hurt others... . but, it is a temporary emotion that soon dissipates.  The blame game never ends.

Back in reality... . they actually ARE victims of a cruel mental illness - a bizarre emotional whirlwind they cannot control.  It is who they are.  

My dBPDs describes every day events as exhausting because of all the mental anguish he puts himself through.  He also suffers from hypervigilance... . heightened reactions to sound, light, and ultrasensitivity to anything said by others.  He is paranoid and his own worst enemy.  If a neighbor  is mowing their lawn, it is not because their grass is too long, it is because they are watching everything he does outside the house.  Gets old REAL fast but it is what it is.  There is no rationalizing what others do.

I am glad you are reading.  There is so much to learn about BPD  ... .   but the best experiences are those from our members.  The real day-to-day struggles with BPD. Just when you think you have heard it all, one of us comes up with a lalapaloozer!  

Stay with us... . you will see what I mean.

[Iamdizzy]

Very interesting posts

I must admit to you all that I was hooked. There is a "natural high" when a beautiful woman who idealizes me needs my help. Issues I need to work out. May I ask from you all, did your BPD partner know or figure out they are unstable and/or are in dire need of help? My ex BPD partner she's un diagnosed but the constant push pull would be off the charts. She say things like "I'm not good for you, you need a normal person" (sometimes she would, the rest of the time I would be a demon who is making her life hell)

[motherof1yearold]

Oh dear god yes!

My ex was abusive ALL around, to the point of being sadistic. He did horrible physical and mentally abusive things on a daily basis, and still claims to this day that he was abused.  The scary part, is my T says he really believes himself in that mentality.

[atcrossroads]

Yes, yes, and another yes.  Spell explains the reason they do this perfectly; it is an inherent part of the disorder.  In their mind, it makes sense that they are indeed the victim.  They fully believe it.

Toward the end of my marriage, I just could not take him being a "victim" anymore, and of course, eventually he became a victim of me.  EVERYTHING was my fault.  Sure I tried learning and applying the tools -- validation, SET, DEARMAN, etc. -- but once I realized that I would ALWAYS have to be the one to keep the calm, to stroke his ego, to soothe him, etc. etc.  I began to detach.  Once I began detaching, which he obviously sensed, he painted me black.

And, here we are just a few weeks away from finalizing our divorce.  It's been tumultuous and draining, but I already feel free from the incessant negativity and victim mentality.  He was always downtrodden.  Eventually, there were days where I had nothing to say to him... . I would try, well, did anything good happen today?  BPD is such a black hole -- so much negativity, it's unreal.

[MammaMia]

Atcrossroads

Yes.  They seem to have an uncanny sense of who they can suck into their very unreal world.  They manipulate, mirror, and idealize.  When partners have had enough and just cannot take the mood swings and abuse any longer... . they, of course, are painted black.  They are evil and unworthy.  PwBPD leave or are left.  But it is always someone else's fault.  They are perfect and many undiagnosed never realize they are the problem.  The rest of the world and all of humanity is crazy.  My son often says he is the only sane person on the planet! 

Sometimes we nons just have to chalk it up to a learning experience, detach, and walk away.  We cannot change who they are.

[Iamdizzy]

Yes! My uBPDex knew what buttons to push, being a victim of sexual abuse she used her past stories of abuse to mitigate her abusive behavior towards me. I always gave in, foolishly I always tol myself no one deserves this. What I didn't realize is that this victim is now an abuser and I allowed it.

[MarkMo]

I was actually just talking about this topic yesterday with a mutual friend of mine and my soon to be exBPD wife. Her and I truly believe that she knows right from wrong and that what she does is wrong. However, when cornered it triggers a 'flight' response in her that immediately attacked me and she said she was going to leave... . a lot. Fights were always my fault and ultimately why she said she left even though she did everything wrong for me to get finally annoyed.

They just need help. I know it will never go away and will take years to see changes but if you are not willing then don't try. I am very willing but my wife doesn't think anything is wrong with her. All of her actions were justified because of any mistake I made in the relationship.

[Iamdizzy]

Markmo- I agree with you this notion that they're hard wired to act like this and not even notice, yeah BPD causes it but I think at the end of the day they do know what they're doing.  Does a serial killer with a PD know what he's doing? YES. It's radical to compare them with serial killers but to make my point, I do think they *CHOOSE* to play the victim, they choose to act and say words that they know hurt us. It's just hard to accept it 

[MarkMo]

Iamdizzy,

   I completely agree. It is their choice. I don't know how much to blame on the pd and how much to blame on them. It is incredibly tough to deal with. In my case, we were having our 5 year anniversary 2 months ago and now she hates me and has been living with her new bf. Now she will stop at almost nothing to destroy me in order to protect her new lies.

   I have no idea how we got to this point. With what she has done 'right' since she left, I know that she has feelings for me and would prefer not to do this. Her 'flight' response kicked in when I believe her bf caught her and instead of just accepting it she turned and made the decision to go on the attack to prove her point.

   She knows that this is wrong but what how much is choice and how much is pd?, well I just don't know. Its incredibly hard because I know she made that choice and everyone has to deal with it now, not just her. To some degree, I don't know if they truly know what the consequences are of what they do.

[MammaMia]

Markmo

PwBPD do not live in a world where consequences are a learning experience.  Does a 2 year old think ahead to consequences? They live "in the moment", and it is very difficult for them to think about tomorrow much less the future.  Also, they forget that others have feelings.  They are so self-absorbed that they often do not care how others feel.  The only emotions that register with them are theirs.

Rarely, if ever, will they admit they are wrong or say "I'm sorry" and actually mean it. 

[snappafcw]

Atcrossroads

Yes.  They seem to have an uncanny sense of who they can suck into their very unreal world.  They manipulate, mirror, and idealize.  When partners have had enough and just cannot take the mood swings and abuse any longer... . they, of course, are painted black.  They are evil and unworthy.  PwBPD leave or are left.  But it is always someone else's fault.  They are perfect and many undiagnosed never realize they are the problem.  The rest of the world and all of humanity is crazy.  My son often says he is the only sane person on the planet! 

Sometimes we nons just have to chalk it up to a learning experience, detach, and walk away.  We cannot change who they are.

Thanks for this it relates to what happened to me perfectly. She stayed because I enabled her and once I actually wanted my emotional needs met she ignored me and without an adult explanation was gone... .

[papawapa]

In my experience with by expwBPD this is absolutely true. I recall many times telling her she needed to stop being the victim when we were together. Since we have split up she has continued to paint herself as the victim. We were in court for a custody hearing and she asked the judge that I not be able to contact her because I was harassing her, the victim. In the initial report form the GaL she painted me as the abuser and claimed she could get affidavits from the neighbors that I had taken her phone to prevent her from calling the police, a complete fabrication, again she is the victim. Tonight I saw the report from my drug/alcohol assessment, she was a collateral witness and was interviewed, she claimed that I was sexually abusing her, another fabrication to make her the victim. But my favorite example since our split was when she claimed that she can't see the kids because I made her out to be a "monster" in the affidavit I filed for the custody case. Everything in the affidavit was true. In the end it is my fault that she can't see her kids. She is the perpetual victim.

[Clearmind]

They have to play the victim role? Borderlines are victims of circumstance - which occured long before you came along. We were a willing audience to their victimhood - there are reasons we played that role - as the rescuer / care taker / fixer - I certainly did persecute him due to my own lack of emotional maturity and understanding.

My ex held tightly onto his identity as a child, and was hoping that I would compensate for the care that was lacking in his early life - he and I both didn't understand that this can't be done - I also was holding on very tightly to my identity as a child - that of a care taker / rescuer resulting behaviour from having an abusive/alcoholic parent.

Its possible to move to survivor and thriver and put the victimhood behind us.

[Trick1004]

Thanks for this it relates to what happened to me perfectly. She stayed because I enabled her and once I actually wanted my emotional needs met she ignored me and without an adult explanation was gone... .

Yep, this essentially describes the end of my r/s also.

[WXYZ]

... . there are reasons we played that role - as the rescuer / care taker / fixer ... .

... . My ex held tightly onto his identity as a child ... .

The difficulty I see is they switch (on a dime) between two the roles:

1. Adult to Adult (normal adult interaction)

2. Parent to Child (abnormal adult interaction)

If they're in child/parent interaction mode and we try to deal with them adult/adult we get a crossed transaction.

And you've got to be a bit of a mind reader to pick on the shift in their mental state.

(here -> www.curezone.com/upload/PDF/Articles/jurplesman/ta1.gif)

[MammaMia]

Clearmind

Absolutely.  Everyone will know in their gut exactly when it is time to detach and move on.  Don't stay to rescue pwBPD because they cannot be rescued from themselves.  Things may get better or they may get worse, but martyrdom will leave your life in ruin forever.

Sometimes we need to listen to our inner thoughts.

[Clearmind]

You are right Aussie! My r/s was mostly parent/child. However I recall a time where I had an out of body experience where he devalued me to the very core - where my own childhood trauma lay - I was 8 with pigtails in that moment. We split a week later. I could not get past that moment - it was the beginning of my healing. I had a lot it heal from and was only using my ex and his troubles to mask my own pain.

I ha always been the little adult even as a child - my alcoholic father depended on it - I parented my partner to the stage I couldn't even be intimate - for whatever reason I thought the whole deal was ok and that I could handle it.

Mamma, I don't ever plan to rescue another human at the expense of myself - I learnt my lesson the hard way but learnt it nonetheless. At the time my inner thoughts were saying leave, my guilt was telling me to stay - I was an emotional mess.

[MarkMo]

In my experience with by expwBPD this is absolutely true. I recall many times telling her she needed to stop being the victim when we were together. Since we have split up she has continued to paint herself as the victim. We were in court for a custody hearing and she asked the judge that I not be able to contact her because I was harassing her, the victim. In the initial report form the GaL she painted me as the abuser and claimed she could get affidavits from the neighbors that I had taken her phone to prevent her from calling the police, a complete fabrication, again she is the victim. Tonight I saw the report from my drug/alcohol assessment, she was a collateral witness and was interviewed, she claimed that I was sexually abusing her, another fabrication to make her the victim. But my favorite example since our split was when she claimed that she can't see the kids because I made her out to be a "monster" in the affidavit I filed for the custody case. Everything in the affidavit was true. In the end it is my fault that she can't see her kids. She is the perpetual victim.

Papawapa,

    This is exactly what I am going through now. I have always been the excuse she uses to do the things that she does. She is always the victim but she can do anything she wants to me with no regard to my feelings.

[MarkMo]

They have to play the victim role? Borderlines are victims of circumstance - which occured long before you came along. We were a willing audience to their victimhood - there are reasons we played that role - as the rescuer / care taker / fixer - I certainly did persecute him due to my own lack of emotional maturity and understanding.

My ex held tightly onto his identity as a child, and was hoping that I would compensate for the care that was lacking in his early life - he and I both didn't understand that this can't be done - I also was holding on very tightly to my identity as a child - that of a care taker / rescuer resulting behaviour from having an abusive/alcoholic parent.

Its possible to move to survivor and thriver and put the victimhood behind us.

This is probably the hardest for me because of my feelings for her and desire to help her still because I know if it doesn't start now, it will be years before she even realizes that she has a problem. That and we have a family together.

[danley]

My ex quite frequently and still does play the victim role. Whatever is going wrong is always someone else's fault. And when it wasn't someone else's fault he'd be in a self pity mode for days even months. He is a very WOE IS ME type.

He had his divorce trial and didn't get what he was fighting for. So now It's his ex wife's fault foe being selfish. It's his lawyers fault for being crappy. Honestly, It probably is my exes fault for waiting til the last minute to turn in paperwork. My ex could have been more assertive in keeping up and on the lawyers work. My ex could have not agreed to many things that he didn't like but didn't want to appear like the bad guy to family and friends. And now that the trial is done he is on a full on trip about malpractice and saying hes gonna be homeless and he's going to have to take his kids out of private school since he can't afford to pay it now. But guess what? Hes the one who volunteered to pay it on his own on top of alimony and child support.

I do feel bad for him but he made poor choices. But he can't take responsibility as he's the victim. The paranoia and ruminating makes his mind go crazy and in circles. It's hard to talk to someone who lives in pessimism. I try to validate him and it seems to help ease his mind. But I don't know if I should be the one to support him as much since he has someone else he's dating. Seems like he gets to play victim to both of us and it feels manipulative in a sense.

[thisyoungdad]

Trick1004- That is pretty much my experience too. I started to go to alanon and so I was learning boundaries and putting them up. Slowly at first, and really the things she wanted me to put up with were outrageous and so when I tried to assert what I needed, she couldn't handle that. She went on to tell everyone I was controlling and not letting her get her needs met etc. and before I could even blink to realize what was going on she was gone. Almost a year later we still deal with each other because of our daughter and she has not given a single soul that I know of any reason or excuse (even a lame one) as to why she left. I almost believe her when she says she doesn't know. It was extremely traumatic for me though.

[Trick1004]

Thisyoungdad,

Very similar indeed! After 3+ years living with mine and allowing her to walk all over my boundaries in the last couple of months of the r/s I was so exhausted that I started throwing up boundaries that any normal person would respect. Of course she didn't like that and continually told me I was withdrawing from her, which I'm sure is exactly what she saw in her disordered mind. I kept telling her I loved just as much as I always had but that I needed to not be so attached and trying to make her happy 100% of the time.

For a couple of weeks after she ended it I was convinced that it was mostly due (and I guess it was) to my trying to establish some kind of normal boundaries in the r/s and that true love isn't a one way street but rather a mutual respect for each others needs.

Having had a couple months now to reflect I don't feel the end of the r/s was entirely my fault at all, which of course she had pinned entirely on me. I was so damn tired that I couldn't continue to focus my time, energy, and emotions dealing with her and the next thing I knew she was gone.

This continues to be the most difficult part of the breakup for me, nothing resembling a concrete reason for wanting me out of her life, no forewarning of the breakup (I actually thought things were getting much better between us), and no willingness on her part to discuss and attempt trying to work through it.

I now understand this is how they operate, you can't try to understand them and their actions from the perspective of a non-disordered person. For me, the only sort of closure I have started to achieve is to look at the r/s and breakup from her perspective. This helps me make a sort of sense of it all though I am still working at understanding what was going on with me to have ended up in this situation to begin with.

[MarkMo]

I would have to agreed with everyone on this one. I can say that I love my wife unconditionally so I know what comes along with that love... . forgiveness. My wife on the other hand has said she has loved me unconditionally in the past put still blames me for the entire relationship.

She relives things like they were yesterday. She mentions her feeling like they were just hurt 10 min ago rather than 3 years ago. I am not trying to talk about the true nature of unconditional love, rather that at least for my BPD, she can never let anything go.

When she came to pick up the kids yesterday she again ran through a laundry list of things that she felt I did wrong to "make" her leave with most of them being from years and years ago. Of course despite the fact that she had been talking to other men all day long and she ended up moving right in with one of them.

She is so blinded, or would rather deal, by blaming me for everything. I believe that it is her defense mechanism for not wanting to deal with everything that she has and is doing wrong. However, when I think back. It has always been this way. It has always been tit for tat. There has always been a reason for her actions while mine were just plain hurtful.

You really do just have to realize who you are dealing with and decide to live with it, and eventually see if they will ever get help, or move on.