He threw ring at me - refuses to interact

[wishfulthinking]

Wow, so last night never even got to discuss the money situation.

He was on me about not talking, his day was soo hard/busy, etc. He's down on himself about how much money he makes, a compressor broke that cost him $250. ( when actually I paid for it ). I'm trying to tiptoe at this point.

We were leaving with the 2 kids - his S10 and my D9 around 8 so he could do things "work related" but it never happened and D9 has a bedtime of 8-9 depending on how tired she is because even tho it's summer she still has to get up at 6 because I work. He lets his some stay up a night if he wants. Anyway... . no work got done because he had to meet "friends" to give them money which I suspect is for pills. So that 180 he got from from his job is puddled away again.

We get home and he's been on edge all night, threw his phone at my windshield because he couldn't get it to do what he wanted fast enough. Got out, slammed the door... . I stayed quiet and in the car. I ran into Walgreens with D9 and he and S10 grabbed a redbox movie. We go home and I'm in the bedroom when I hear him snap. He's yelling at my D about the dog. They had let the dog out and he ran off so when he came back and inside she was a little attitude-y withy the dog. He freaked out. Screamed at her to go to bed and I went with her to tell her I'm sorry and I'm trying to fix it- as she's telling me she hates her life and wants to die. I told her if things don't settle soon we will be without them again. I can't let her be treated that way. He came in and yelled at me for discussing the dog thing with her- which I did- and screamed at me to leave her alone. I walked out and he started talking to her and explaining he didn't want her bit, etc and it seemed better. He comes out and rages at me for 3 hours. I tried to hide in the bathroom and take a shower but he unlocked the door and cornered me in there to scream at me. I don't show him love, I never put him first, etc. I'm naked, wet, and cornered. All I can do is cry which sets him off more. He finally calmed some and wanted to talk so ever time I tried he called me a liar and I quit talking. I was going to get up to go to the bathroom and he stood over me screaming at me to sit back and look at him. I sat and looked at him but because I didn't lean all the way back he threw his food and I got up fast and went out the door to let the situation calm and establish a boundary. I stood outside and he continued throwing things. I came in and he said if I didn't do what he said my tv ( I worked hard for before he came along to get it) would be next. I told him there was no reason for that behavior and I wanted to talk with him about everything he wanted because I love and care for him but I wouldn't FIgHT with him.

He threw his ring at me and said he was leaving and wanted nothing to do with me and satan himself sent me and he hates me and I don't love him nor ever do anything for him.

He won't look at me, talk to me, tells me to shut up, but if I left him alone in the past I was told I didn't love him because I wasn't fighting for him? Wth?

Unfortunately, I do love him, but I won't stay with violence. Had too much in my childhood and won't let my D be raised with it.

Suggestions? Let him go and move on? I feel duped. Married this amazing man after 6 months of fairytale and now it was all a joke on me? Does God hate me? Maybe there is no God after all... . Considering my parents and grandparents are all dead and I have no family at the age of 36, I'm 38 now... . I'm wondering what exactly I've done wrong to deserve this?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Vindi]

YOU DID nothing wrong, why he uses violence, throwing a phone at a car window, not good! and throwing the ring at you too... . and you mention throwing food. I think this behavior is unacceptable, even when the threatens to throw the tv.

How is he today? you need to set firmer boundaries on what you will and will not put up with esp. when he goes into these violent, throwing things rages.

Of course the first 6 mos I am sure was a dream/fairytale of your marriage, this seems like a typical senario, it all starts out great then goes downhill after months.

Do you have any friends you can stay with, with your children? just til you can decide what you want to do? I am sure your daughter, is afraid and scared of this man.

What is it that YOU want to do?

[DreamFlyer99]

You are TOTALLY  in the right place!

Vindi is right, his behavior is unacceptable. You are worth so much more than that. Unfortunately, so many things you've listed are so commonly occurring among people with BPD that they have cute little names:

fairytale beginning and now you're the evil goblin? Splitting.

Taking out frustrations etc on you by saying that you are the one who does stuff he's doing like telling you Satan sent you, you won't do anything for him, etc etc-- Projection. (where his failures/inadequacies are put as your behavior, on here I've seen a lot of people refer to it as "white hat/black hat" depending on if you're awesome or awful at the moment.)

What we nons often lack as we let them rage on for hours? Boundaries.

God loves you way more than this guy does, and way more than you love yourself right now i'd bet. These folks have a magical way of making us feel like idiots till we get better informed and realize how we can respond (or how we can leave.) But I know that God is the only one who loved me before I ever tried to please him, not true of the people I grew up with or the man i'm married to.

My therapist had to really work with me to take care of myself, find that I was important enough to do good for, cuz I was so used up dancing with my uBPD husband I had nothing left for me. It finally (along with accumulated emotional abuse from childhood) gave me the "gift" of fibromyalgia, which was like God saying "Now do you get it? You need to love yourself in order to love others!"

It's a journey, more like a crazy road trip without a map, but it's well worth the time spent reading on this site, learning ways to keep yourself and your child safe above all, learning ways to communicate differently (tho mine like yours hasn't always given me the chance to communicate Anything besides fear! he's much calmer these days.) so that you aren't contributing to the crazy. The tools will help you generally in life whichever way you go with this, staying or leaving. Those are both valid options, and this site will help you figure it out.

I didn't realize what some things were when our kids were young, so i'm thankful you ARE figuring it out in time to lessen the impact of this crazy-making life on your daughter.

Keep reading/posting/learning, it's all valuable!

[wishfulthinking]

Thank you both for responding.  Yesterday was fairly ok, but because I "neglected" to tell him about a bond coming due in October and he found out about it, he went off about how I'm never open and honest and this was important and he works hard and was concerned about money and blah blah.  Good thing we were in front of Menard's or it might have gotten bad.  Funny how he can watch his actions when in public.  He said he has asked me before what my version of broke was and that I had money left 2 weeks ago... . I said yes, but then 700 of it was spent in the matter of 2 weeks that I didn't know about and that left me with NOTHING.  Apparently, he didn't like that and he accused me of being selfish again and it isn't his fault and he's been trying to talk to me about his "habits" and stuff... . I guess the fact that he stole 700 from my savings account is not his fault, it's mine?  How so, I wonder.

Anyway, he was resonable and in a fairly good mood Saturday, I left before he got up (he slept till 130) and he called me while I was out (my daughter was with her dad) and asked me to bring food.  I said I didn't have money for food but would make something when I got home.  I was just walking around Target at the time, not wanting to be home.  I got home, fed him and his S10 and started laundry.  After S10 went home and we were alone, he told me he was sorry and he took too many pills and drank more than he had drank in a long time and was out of control.  He even went so far as to say twice in 2 weeks he'd crossed a line.  MIRACLE there.  I do have a bruise on my arm where he grabbed me when I went to walk out of theroom once that night and there is a dent in the table where he threw the bowl.  So much for my wood coffee table.

I am going to read more on splitting today and mirroring.  I read on the painted black/white the other day outside of Target.  He watches everything I do on my phone and checks it, so I'm limited to researching when he's gone or here at work.  Thing is, he always wants my attention, I never get a break.  Is that normal?  I mean, NEVER.  I took a day off to do my own stuff I HAD to get done and none of it got done.  I had to spend the day with him doing his stuff... .   UGH.

I HATE that I love him.  I really do.

[DreamFlyer99]

Normal for HIM is not normal for YOU-- they can be super needy and sometimes like a baby and sometimes a toddler. The pwBPD doesn't necessarily understand that you aren't gone forever if you aren't with him in his free time. I've heard people on here talk about "object permanence" which reminded me of stuff I learned about babies years ago, that to them if a toy is hidden under a blanket, or if mom is out of the room, they think that object or person is gone forever! panic! Or think of a toddler who mom is leaving at preschool--is she coming back? will I ever see her again? I miss her so muuuuch! Then she comes back, every time, and the toddler learns that mom can be out of sight but not gone forever. Emotional immaturity is a huge factor in this disorder.

I remember when I first realized that my husband was perfectly happy to have me just there in the room, in the background, and then he felt not-alone. But if I was gone at the store when he got home from work, he was ALONE! abandoned, he felt so by himself that he couldn't stand it! They have big issues around abandonment. add that to emotional immaturity and BOOM! you are gone forever if they cannot see you.

But for your own safety and mental health you need to be able to get your own things done, you need to be the one in control of your savings if he's gonna dip into that without asking or even telling you. You need some boundaries that will help take care of YOU.

It's a weird realization once you figure out what you are up against in terms of someone who can suck up all the air in the room. But there are skills to be learned, and yourself to be taken care of, NOT just him. But often all the pwBPD can see is himself. And like a kid, they need to start learning how to self-soothe (just like we taught our babies when they were little--"mommy will be back" and those skills are plentiful on this site.

You will be so much better prepared for the future of you and your daughter as you learn these things. Read through the Lessons, get a better idea of what you are dealing with, how you may be feeding into his perceived needs with your actions. You'll be stronger and better prepared.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206

I feel the need to hide what I do on this site. Kind of a clue that things are not right in our r/s right there, yunno?

Just remember you can't be much good for anyone else if you aren't taking care of you. I used to think as a Christian that it would be selfish to take care of my self. I was wrong, we are to "love others as ourselves." AS OURSELVES. If i'm not taking care of my own physical and mental and financial health, I won't have the resources to help my kids or anyone else.

i'm learning right along with you!

[GreenMango]

D8... . as she's telling me she hates her life and wants to die.

:'(

This is very sad.

Sometimes we need to see and hear our words. 

Can you start with boundaries with your child?

[wishfulthinking]

GreenMango,

I know, this breaks my heart.  My daughter is an amazing, spirited, light in my life and to see her so dejected hurts me.  She is very sensitive and I know it gets to her because she is getting more disciplinen now than before.  Most of it is needed, though.  She used to take an hour to eat for example.  Now, she needs to be done within 10 minutes of everyone else.  She didn't like that.  She got away with too much with just me.  She also is picking up some bad habits from the kids she is around during her summer daycare, but I have to work, so it is something I have to accept, but she will be in trouble when she does some of the things they do... . it is partly this why she is so sad.

I do know she does not like seeing me sad or hurt, which she picks up on because we are very close.  She is a spectacular person who I'm so proud of and I don't want that part of her to change, but the rules have been hard, too.

[wishfulthinking]

DreamFlyer,

Thank you for the input.  I am reading the lessons right now.  I'll have to go home soon, so I wanted to say thank you!

[DreamFlyer99]

Welcome! They're helpful, aren't they?

[Suzn]

lostinparadise your child is scared. She has not had very much time to adjust to a new person in her life and new hard rules. This is probably extremely confusing to her seeing you scared, yelled at and grabbed. You are her protector, setting boundaries with your new H is for both you and your daughter. He sounds out of control. He is using pills and alcohol together, do you know what these pills are? Or their interaction with alcohol?

I am concerned for your safety. Do you have a safety plan just in case things get too out of hand?

Please click here to familiarize yourself with a solid plan: Safety First

This link may also be helpful.

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Women

GreenMango,

I know, this breaks my heart.  My daughter is an amazing, spirited, light in my life and to see her so dejected hurts me.  She is very sensitive and I know it gets to her because she is getting more disciplinen now than before.  Most of it is needed, though.  She used to take an hour to eat for example.  Now, she needs to be done within 10 minutes of everyone else.  She didn't like that.  She got away with too much with just me.  She also is picking up some bad habits from the kids she is around during her summer daycare, but I have to work, so it is something I have to accept, but she will be in trouble when she does some of the things they do... . it is partly this why she is so sad.

I do know she does not like seeing me sad or hurt, which she picks up on because we are very close.  She is a spectacular person who I'm so proud of and I don't want that part of her to change, but the rules have been hard, too.

[Chosen]

Hi lostinparadise,

I can relate to how you feel.  Although I have no children, I have gone through very similar things that you mentioned- the threatening, the accusations, the "child of satan" bit- I used to get accused that a lot, until it has no more effect on me, then he kind of stops the religious abuse.  He has also been violent before.

For the sake of yourself and your kids, you need to have stronger boundaries.  He will not like it, but you will need to let him know.  For me, my boundary now is that "when I feel that my safety is threatened, I will leave the place".  That doesn't only include actually being violent, it means threatening violence.  He doesn't like it and he argued that "But I didn't even touch you" (truth is he has before; no reason to believe he won't do it again), but just let them argue what they want.  I tell myself, if I can't leave right then, I may leave the next day, spend it somewhere else until the home situation is safe.

Like you, I have nowhere to go because I don't have close family.  My mother's dead and I'm not thaaaat close to my father, who lives very far away.  So yeah, there was a time when my H threatened me that I had to leave my own home to sleep on the floor of somebody else's home (he didn't know where I went, I won't tell him), but at least I was safe.  They do things to get reactions out of us.  When they know the reaction isn't what they want, sometimes they will try other methods but in due course they will know this particular method doesn't work.

Take care.

[wishfulthinking]

Thank you all again for being so supportive.  The past few days have been pretty ok.  He got miffed over a couple of things, but he barely said anything about them.  Held his temper quite well (for him).  He is not happy because I haven't "humbled" myself to discuss him putting the ring back on... . like I should have begged him or something.  His mom called me today and she told me he has stolen some of her medication.  She NEEDS them due to chronic arthritis pain and is now going to run low on them.  She works part time as a caregiver and she is 68 years old herself!  She went to divide her scripts for the rest of the week and when she opened her safe the meds were lower than they should have been and my H is the only other person who knows the combination or even has a key to her house.  Seems an intervention of some sort may be in order, oh boy... . this should be fun... .

Suzn... . it is opiates... . vicadin, percocet, etc... also tramadol- which is non narcotic but also seems to give him a high... . ?  Once upon a time he had a 14 year crack addiction which he kicked by himself about 6 years ago.  Now, pills are his vice... .   When I first met him, he was on them for a back injury, but it has spiraled (obviously) and now I'm not sure what to do on this.  I'm fairly certain that as his tolerance gets higher and he has to have more of the drug in his system to feel it, it is doing a bigger number on his control and he is less able to deal with his uBPD.

Not making excuses, just seems to correlate.  Something needs done no matter if it changes his control on the BPD or not.  He's going to kill himself.

[GreenMango]

Addiction treatment sounds needed.  Self medicating and drug use isn't unheard of.  It's a coping mechanism.  He has to be sober to take part in most therapies.  He holds the reigns on this.  An intervention requires consequences and a willingness to do the hard but loving things.

Going over your boundaries - bottom line ones - and spending some time defining them might help.  Questions like if having a partner who's addicted, and not seeking treatment, is going to work for you?  What is parenting going to be like?  How to handle the rigors of a relationship like this?  What affect this will have on you and your daughter and do you think its manageable? ... . I know these are all hard questions beyond the I love this person.  

That and taking care of your end of the street - like in the staying lessons.

Do you have support? Alanon? Therapist?  Most of us here found it essential.

Is there an area where you would like to start?

[DreamFlyer99]

Suzn... . it is opiates... . vicadin, percocet, etc... also tramadol- which is non narcotic but also seems to give him a high... . ? 

I just read that Tramadol is a synthetic opiate, and still has the potential to be habit forming, so it fits with the other medications he likes. It sounds like he's just replaced one addiction with another, really. i'm pretty sure that's common for people with addictive personalities.

Chosen said:

For the sake of yourself and your kids, you need to have stronger boundaries.  He will not like it, but you will need to let him know.  For me, my boundary now is that "when I feel that my safety is threatened, I will leave the place".

I've done this with my uBPDh when he was really raging. (he went thru a bad raging period last year when his psych was messing with his antidepressants.) I told him (because he had expressed the desire to be more in control of himself) "This is the old you right now, and not the person you want to be. I'm not feeling safe right now so i'm going for a walk." I don't have small children to protect, but boy does that add an extra element of "needing to be safe."

Like GreenMango, Chosen and Suzn have all said, your daughter is looking to YOUR lead in how to manage the chaos, and she looks to you to be her protector. They all were wise to point that out, it is huge. I don't always 'see' those things because I grew up in that sort of chaotic and hateful environment and it caused me some blindness about people mistreating me. That's a bad thing.

GreenMango said:

Going over your boundaries - bottom line ones - and spending some time defining them might help.  Questions like if having a partner who's addicted, and not seeking treatment, is going to work for you?  What is parenting going to be like?  How to handle the rigors of a relationship like this?  What affect this will have on you and your daughter and do you think its manageable? ... . I know these are all hard questions beyond the I love this person. 

Wow. This is so... . ON POINT. big stuff to think about!

[wishfulthinking]

Thank you DreamFlyer99. I really appreciate your helping.  I didn't realize Tramadol was addictive.  His Dr had said it was non-narcotic, so shouldn't be an issue.  They made him sign a contract for the vicadin, but not the tramadol.  I'm not sure what to do on this element.

Luckily, the last few days have been pretty good.  No blow ups.  I still get "picked on" about not quite doing things "right".  I'm not sure how to deal with that. No matter what I do it's not good enough or there is a flaw.

My daughter does look to me for safely, I know this.  I just hate that at first there were no issues with him and everything was happy probably 95% of the time, he would joke around and nothing "bothered" him like it does all the time now.  He has laid off of her and I've been acting like his nitpicks don't bother me, so she has been her typical happy, flighty self. I love her.

[DreamFlyer99]

she has been her typical happy, flighty self. I love her.

SO great to hear!

I wonder if the fact that you're acting like his nitpicking doesn't bother you may be helping in the way that he's not able to pull you into his acting-out little world. That could be quite positive.

I just hate that at first there were no issues with him and everything was happy probably 95% of the time, he would joke around and nothing "bothered" him like it does all the time now.

THAT, sadly, is typical. Their moods affect them greatly. I know when my uBPDh is feeling most fragile (people trouble at work, changed sleep schedule, etc.) he's the most likely to find fault with what I say. and then he looks so hurt, like he's a puppy I kicked, oh my goodness. He hasn't been willing to look at how his childhood shaped his adulthood, and I think a lot of those feelings he experienced as a child who was abused by his mother and ignored by his dad kinda pop up when he has a similar feeling from a present day situation. Not that i'm excusing him because of that, I had a crap childhood too and I've spent years in therapy trying to heal myself from it, but it does give me a bit of understanding.

The thing we all have to remember as people who love pwBPD is that there is no guarantee that things will become stable, we need to accept that if we are in the r/s long term we will live through many more repeats of the same negative behavior we've already seen, we may see some of the lovely old times for periods, BUT we can count on seeing the "unhappy" guy again.

We have to remember that those needs we had filled so kindly during the "fairytale" phase are going to go unfilled, at least when they're down, but maybe forever after. The pwBPD sees pretty much everything through the lens of "how does this make ME feel" "how does this affect ME" so that fairytale time may never make an appearance again... . I feel awful saying that, but... .

I wonder if the Tramadol thing has varying opinions out there? Like possibly some think because it's a synthetic it won't give the same effect? Where I was reading the opinion was that it still can be a problem for an addict. I used to work for addiction specialists, a fascinating branch of medicine, so I find the issue interesting. It's really awful to deal with on a day to day basis, like you are though.

We also did foster care as a family when our kids were young, so frequently the parent was an addict. My father was an alcoholic, so I grew up with the example that whatever he did was to serve the addiction. And often with the parent of our foster babies, the parent put more effort into serving their addiction than they did into caring about their new baby. It was horribly sad to see, but often way better that the baby went to loving adoptive parents, or sometimes to an aunt. Thinking about the affect of growing up with an addict for a parent is a harsh one for me, having been there. Nobody and nothing matters as much as feeding that addiction, it's the love of their life.

Does your H have any inclination toward getting help for his addiction? It really sounds like he's treating the same triggers he did with the illicit drug with a different legal substance to me, but obviously I can't know that since i'm not his therapist.

Some of what you say, like, "Luckily the last few days have been pretty good" is so familiar to me. It took me talking a year or more about my r/s with my H with my T to start hearing myself. "the last few days"--who else would you hear say those words and not go "what the heck, the rest are that BAD to make a few look GOOD?" Then I finally had to get real with myself and start seeing things for what they were.

But that was the start of my healing in the r/s. That was the start of learning some new skills for not making things worse. I had to realize that I was not dealing with someone who thought like me, the BPD person is acting out of a more primal place I think, and logic doesn't necessarily have a place in their thinking. It can be a lot more reactionary to every little thing, as you're seeing. If it makes them say "ouch I don't like this feeling" then you are gonna feel their pain if they can manage.

It's quite a commitment. fortunately my H was sufficiently horrified by his actions last year when his medication was being messed with that I think he's trying to be more mindful.

Only time can tell. I've already been with him for 37 years, and it took me 35 of those to realize everything couldn't possibly be my fault.  So i'm a slow learner, a late bloomer, but it's all experience I can learn from and share, hopefully to the benefit of others.

Sorry to go on so long! Good grief. I have the gift of babble.