Karma

[sheepdog]

I have been on this board for a few years now and I have read several times during discussions about detaching that things will sort themselves out and to let karma deal with it.

Many times, when the BPD relationship ends, it is traumatic and sometimes we want karma to *show* them how bad they hurt us.  I understand this is part of the process.

I hear over and over (and have indeed said myself) that 'what goes around, comes around.'

Also, that 'everything happens for a reason.'  I'm not sure yet how I feel about that one but I've read on here many times that the relationship with the BPD happened for a reason and it should be considered a gift even though it was traumatic.

As most of you know, I had a relationship with a BPD while married (see "An Apology" on this board).

How does karma fit into this?  What are your thoughts on karma?  Both, with a situation like mine (and others on this board) and for people with a mental illness.

I'm feeling a bit melancholy and introspective so forgive me if this is too broad or all over the place. 

Time to go focus on moving and not wallowing.

Really would like to hear your thoughts on this subject.  Hope everyone is having a good day.

[slimmiller]

Hello Sheepdog 


Very good question! I have my thoughts on this and am still meditating on this very question. I think I am beginning to arrive at some sort of a conclusion but want to think a little more on it and then comment.

Particularily your comment about 'the relationship with the BPD happens for a reason'  Its rather difficult for me to swallow the fact that we had that experience because we needed to but... .  

Did we really choose to in the broader sense of the word? 

Thats the main thing I wrestle with still

[Cumulus]

Hi sheepdog, interesting thought. Firstly, I don't subscribe to the idea that what goes around comes around. It feels passive aggressive to me and in no way comforting or healing. As long as we are in the vengeful mindset there can be no true healing for ourselves.

The everything happens for a reason is a question more suited to where we need to get to. I think by asking this question we are trying to integrate the difficult situation into the scope of our lives. Here is a quote that rings true to me. Sorry I don't know who to recognize for it.

"Because we are children if God there is nothing we can't do if it is right, but we have to learn strength and courage, we have to learn wisdom and test our faith. Anybody can sail on calm waters, its the storms that test us."

Hope things are going well. Cumulus

[catsprt]

Hi Sheepdog - happy that you asked .

I do not believe in karma, I believe that life is a succession of moments and incidents. The way one deals with these depends on the character (genetics and environment) current environment and previous experience (same life). I learned at a very young age that "two wrongs don't make a right", its Christian equivalent and the golden rule. My mother has always been very good at storytelling, she taught me a lot. But I still had to learn that words can be cheap. I believe in God and also that we need hope, faith and courage.

Back to the relationship with the BdP/N, it happened because I did not know any better ... . It was not a trap or destiny. I was poorly shaped in my youth by parents that were also poorly shaped... . It happened and I do hope learned enough to not get that draw again. Am I too much down to earth?

[Grey Kitty]

I have heard two versions of karma (from a Buddhist teacher), and I believe in one of them, not so much with the other.

The idea that you lived previous lives and accrued karma during those lives which will now come back to you isn't one that I really believe. As far as I'm concerned, luck, fate, or God's will explains events like that as well as karma does, and since I have no memory of past lives or ability to change them in any way, it doesn't help me live my life, or even understand it better.

There is another, more immediate version of karma, and that I do believe in: Every time I act to harm another creature, that is bad karma. And I immediately experience the negative consequence of my action. I may feel guilt, distress, remorse. Possibly I hide those feelings or stuff those feelings, but they are still there.

Good acts have a similar karmic consequence--I do feel better for good and helpful acts.

Sheepdog, in your Apology threads, you talk of negative actions you did with your exBPD. I'd say that you are very clearly suffering horribly as a consequence of your actions. You started the thread four months ago, and are still suffering. (  I hope you find peace and forgiveness soon.)

I doubt that your exBPD is aware of the consequences to himself of his actions. I don't believe it had no impact on him, even if he is unaware of the impact.

My understanding of this view on karma is that it is a natural law like gravity, not a form judgement, reward, or punishment.

[KE151]

To me karma is equilibrium. A shock or a deviation (a good or bad deed if you will) from the natural way of things will be counterbalanced in due time. In one way or another, seemingly unrelated way. And if we're lucky, we see this happen with our own eyes and learn something in the process. Sheepdog, maybe your experience taught you something and in due time when you're ready, will help you grow.

[Rose Tiger]

One of the many times I was crying and driving in my car, drive crying is great therapy by the way, I asked God "WHY?"  Why is this happening to me?  Why am I going through this?"  I heard a voice in my heart say "because I am preparing you".  That stopped the tears pretty quick.  God is preparing me.  It made me feel better knowing He had a plan, He has finger on my life, He is aware of every minute detail, He knows the number of hairs on my head.  I had to leave the shackles of 'poor me', victim again, and start taking some responsibility for my life.  Had to learn how.  Had to grow up.   Or attempting to, this might be a lifelong process. 

[Clearmind]

Karma is cause and effect! Karma is lost in translation with these relationships - there is no cause and effect or accountability - however Sheepdog you can be accountable and continue to accept your reasons for entering this friendship.

My ex lives with his illness every day of the week - I don't need or have the desire for him to suffer anymore than he does already.

[Suzn]

I hear over and over (and have indeed said myself) that 'what goes around, comes around.'

Sheepdog words are just that, words. Just because they are spoken and repeated that doesn't make them so. I would encourage you to look at facts instead. Ruminating over our mistakes is wasted time. We've held ourselves accountable, now we move forward.

Also, that 'everything happens for a reason.'  I'm not sure yet how I feel about that one but I've read on here many times that the relationship with the BPD happened for a reason and it should be considered a gift even though it was traumatic.

Have you grown from this experience? Think about that. For me, I have learned many lessons from this experience. I have worked hard, as you are, to become a more healthy minded individual since. To have boundaries where I had none before. To explore my own behaviors learned from childhood and to now make better choices as an adult. And that, just scratches the surface. This relationship and the fallout that followed was truly a gift for me.

[sheepdog]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments.  You've all given me a lot to think about.

And just to be clear - I don't want people with BPD to suffer or 'get their due.'

I was just asking in general as karma, fate, destiny, etc. are things that I like to hear other's opinions about.

[slimmiller]

I believe in Karma in a little different sense then what most folks think of when they think of Karma. I do not necessarily prescribe to the idea of Karma as some do where it involves re-incarnation and past lives etc. Not saying its not possible, just that it does not fit with my idea of it. That is a deep subject and much deeper then what I am able to even consider at this point in my life.

However I do not believe that one can live recklessly and hurt others in life (as many BPDs do wether they mean to or not) and get away with it. We can say that we know of people that always 'get away with it' when it comes to being immoral, mean or any other pain they may cause. I do not believe any one can get away with anything if time is removed from the equation. Somewhere, sometime one that causes pain in whatever capacity will have to make an account of it. Wether its an illness for stealing, loss for lying etc, somewhere theres is an accountability for it. Call it God or whatever, we will reap what we sow.

Now do we cause our own pain by the decision we make? Maybe so, maybe not. I know the person I am today is not the person that met and married my ex. I am a BETTER person. Maybe thats why I met her and took that path, I dont know. I would never again walk that path if I consciously knew the outcome even though I m grateful for what it has taught me.

I do also believe in a sense our thoughts 'are our prayers' (metaphorically speaking) and I have learned that the more I ruminate and think about everything the deeper it becomes. I n other words if I give life to something with my thoughts it only tends to become more of a monster. This came about in several different ways mainly by several books i have read that gave me somme real deep 'ahaa' moments.

For instance when The ex throws something at me in her disregualtion and threatens to take the kids or whatever else that she does to cause fear in my life, I take a deep breath and FORCE myself so to speak to just do 'whatever' or think 'so what' and put it out of my mind by whatever it takes and then come back to it later and its almost like the venom she was spewing has lost its poison.

I have found the more passion, and passion in the real sense, not the romantic 'passion' the more you give to something, the more  abundant it becomes. If I put more passion into 'how am I going to pay the bills' then in 'how grateful I am for the ability to pay the bills', one will win. Even in the Bible it says, we can not love both. You will hate the one and love the other. I am paraphrasing.

Many of us when we are in the FOG, are intensley fearfull on how they will hurt us if we rebel against what the wishes of the BPD is. Once we lessen that fear, it takes the wind out of their sail and the strength away from the pain they cause. They become ineffective.

Its almost like we need them to teach us that lesson... . maybe. I know its a deep philosophical question and that idea fits with my understanding of our personal 'Tikkun' but could we really in any form or manner 'want' to learn the hard way ?

I would like to think not but then again im very stubborn

Dont know if I m making any sense, just some thoughts



Thanks for the question Sheepdog, it spurned thinking for me after I read it.

[dharmagems]

I believe in karma.  The universe sent my BPD husband to teach me something crucial I needed to figure out.  It was the hardest thing to confront my childhood wounds after my BPD experience.  I found out that all the ways to cope with a BPD in life are same ways to deal currently with my NPD mom.  I learned that I really have severe low self esteem and I always thought that rage directed to me was my fault.  I also learned that I am codependent and I learned that from my parent's relationship.  Nowadays, I can recognize  PD and create strong boundaries around myself and get out of these relationships quickly.  I guess I am growing up into a more mature adult.  I'm taking on a lot more responsibilities financial investment and with my physical and emotional health as priority.  I was tested this month on recognizing a Borderline roommate, and I'm getting out of this situation without hurt or emotional attachment!    I feel like God keeps hitting me with the same things until I wake up.

[sheepdog]

Thank you slimmiller and dharmagens.  Both of your posts resonated with me.  Gave me even more to think about!

I guess what I'm grappling with is karma and how doing something awful goes along with remorse and forgiveness and all of that.

[Undone123]

Hi sheepdog, interesting thought. Firstly, I don't subscribe to the idea that what goes around comes around. It feels passive aggressive to me and in no way comforting or healing. As long as we are in the vengeful mindset there can be no true healing for ourselves.

The everything happens for a reason is a question more suited to where we need to get to. I think by asking this question we are trying to integrate the difficult situation into the scope of our lives. Here is a quote that rings true to me. Sorry I don't know who to recognize for it.

"Because we are children if God there is nothing we can't do if it is right, but we have to learn strength and courage, we have to learn wisdom and test our faith. Anybody can sail on calm waters, its the storms that test us."

Hope things are going well. Cumulus

So true

[mcc503764]

My x always used to say "what you put into this world is what you will get out of it."

There were MANY factors in the r/s that were beyond either of our control.  Deaths, financial, illness, children issues... .

These events triggered actions in BOTH of us and those actions fed off of one another, snowballed into bigger issues and there you have it!

Is she BPD?  All I can do is base my opinion from the facts of what was in front of me, from my experience with her... . But at the end of the day, that's not my place to make that determination.

I loved her with all of my heart.  I really did, and probably still do to an extent, but the fact of the matter is that life happens and you cannot possibly control God's fate for anyone!

Perhaps we were brought into each other's life for the events that were destined to happen?  To provide support for one another?  I think most of our acting out to each other was our own childish reactions to what was happening in our life at the time?  People do some real crazy sh^t when they are up against the wall ya know?

In any event, it is what it is... . all I can do is learn and grow from the experience.  All I can do is move forward with MY life!  Control what I can, which are MY actions / reactions to the issues that are in front of me today!

I have wished my x well with her life.  I tried to let her know that I wasn't harboring any more hate/anger for her.  She dismissed it, but at least I kept my dignity and took the high road with all of it!

MCC