Why do we desire to tame them?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

(Disclaimer, appropriate board (?) inapplicable to those who were/are married and/or share children)

The question is in the subject.

Some Background: Shortly after I joined "BPD Family" I felt most comfortable on the "leaving" board. We were SO's for almost 7 years, and will never be that again. I let go of that aspiration soon after she received the official diagnosis of BPD. That "letting go" was not due to cruelty on my part, or even because of her inappropriate actions--it was the simple clear perception that a conventionally stable long-term relationship would never be possible between us. I mourned that and then accepted.

However, we both had little desire to cut each other out of our lives in toto. We each believed that our connection could transcend conventional definitions regarding relationship status. We still have love for each other, but I do not harbor a possessory interest in her. Why try to tame her, when the evidence is overwhelming that she cannot be tamed. I let go of that desire, hence the reason for being on this board. I do not define our status as a failed relationship, because that devalues the significance of our many good years together. That period in our lives was finite, as all things are, as all things change.

For various reasons I only have limited time and desire to see her (about 10 days per month). When we are separate, that is our own time, when together we are more than "just friends."  It is easier to be selfish with her (in a healthy way) without the pressure of trying to maintain a stable LTR. Something that we both know cannot work. When together our friendship is fun and comfortable, because we know each other so well.  I do not take the dialectical nature of her emotions too seriously, because I know she will eventually return to baseline. That helps minimize the dysregulation and stay present. As nons, it is abundantly clear that (our) suffering triggers a pwBPD's shame. I NEVER shame her, and in return she does not abuse my compassion. I'm willing to advise her if she asks, albeit without judgmental pressure.

I see so much suffering on this board. It is utterly heartbreaking. I ask myself, why do we desire to possess these uniquely wired people in rigid conventional ways?  They always let us down. It is too much pressure and stress for them. They rarely can be tamed. We've all heard (I imagine) something to the effect, "If you want something very, very badly, let it go free.  If it comes back to you, it’s yours forever. If it doesn't, it was never yours to begin with." As we all know pwBPD come back all the time. Why is that rarely acceptable or enough for us nons? Why do we desire to tame them? 

[Conundrum]

(Disclaimer, appropriate board (?) inapplicable to those who were/are married and/or share children)

The question is in the subject.

Some Background: Shortly after I joined "BPD Family" I felt most comfortable on the "leaving" board. We were SO's for almost 7 years, and will never be that again. I let go of that aspiration soon after she received the official diagnosis of BPD. That "letting go" was not due to cruelty on my part, or even because of her inappropriate actions--it was the simple clear perception that a conventionally stable long-term relationship would never be possible between us. I mourned that and then accepted.

However, we both had little desire to cut each other out of our lives in toto. We each believed that our connection could transcend conventional definitions regarding relationship status. We still have love for each other, but I do not harbor a possessory interest in her. Why try to tame her, when the evidence is overwhelming that she cannot be tamed. I let go of that desire, hence the reason for being on this board. I do not define our status as a failed relationship, because that devalues the significance of our many good years together. That period in our lives was finite, as all things are, as all things change.

For various reasons I only have limited time and desire to see her (about 10 days per month). When we are separate, that is our own time, when together we are more than "just friends."  It is easier to be selfish with her (in a healthy way) without the pressure of trying to maintain a stable LTR. Something that we both know cannot work. When together our friendship is fun and comfortable, because we know each other so well.  I do not take the dialectical nature of her emotions too seriously, because I know she will eventually return to baseline. That helps minimize the dysregulation and stay present. As nons, it is abundantly clear that (our) suffering triggers a pwBPD's shame. I NEVER shame her, and in return she does not abuse my compassion. I'm willing to advise her if she asks, albeit without judgmental pressure.

I see so much suffering on this board. It is utterly heartbreaking. I ask myself, why do we desire to possess these uniquely wired people in rigid conventional ways?  They always let us down. It is too much pressure and stress for them. They rarely can be tamed. We've all heard (I imagine) something to the effect, "If you want something very, very badly, let it go free.  If it comes back to you, it’s yours forever. If it doesn't, it was never yours to begin with." As we all know pwBPD come back all the time. Why is that rarely acceptable or enough for us nons? Why do we desire to tame them? 

[mcc503764]

For me, it was the whole "never giving up on love" mentality.  When you truly "love" something, you do whatever it takes to hold onto it... . that's my mentality... . I guess I have a big heart when it comes to that... .

Enter BPD... .

Completely redefined my definition of the word "love!"  I learned that I had to save myself and let it go

only time will tell I guess... . that's acceptance for me!

MCC

[Katy-Did]

I appreciate your perspective... .   "Tame" ... . interesting word.  Is what your describing the essence of "radical acceptance"? 

[obtunded]

I agree with mcc... I HAVE to let her go... . I would move so damn far away from her if it wasn't for our children... . Control? I NEVER wanted to control anyone. I only wanted someone who would RESPECT me and allow ME to RESPECT her. She couldn't. I don't WANT to control her any more than I WANT to control my kids, but I damn well better, because they can't do it for themselves.  

I'm happy you can find a common ground on which to deal with your BPD, but I find myself having the opposite desire. I would be much happier if I never saw her again and never heard what happenes to her. I'm ready to move on, but trapped by my love for my children, which is unconditional, unlike the love I had for her. She needs to acknowledge her behavior, work on true change, become an adult, and MAYBE then I'll begin to see her as such.

It's not that I want to control her; I only want to control my reactions to her behavior... . I want peace... . and pretending that I can have a relationship with someone so emotionally immature and allow her to "be herself" is BS... . she needs to grow up... . or go away... . her choice.

I'm happy you've found peace with yours and I really appreciate you sharing a different take on having a relationship with a BPD. Were there any books, teachings, seminars, etc. that enabled you to understand your feelings and hers such that you are able to maintain what I assume is a "healthy" relationship? I'm very curious, thanks.

[Conundrum]

Is what your describing the essence of "radical acceptance"? 

For me, yes it is... .

"Tame" ... . interesting word.   

So the little prince tamed the fox. And when the hour of his departure drew near--

"Ah," said the fox, "I shall cry."

"It is your own fault," said the little prince. "I never wished you any sort of harm; but you wanted me to tame you . . ."

"Yes, that is so," said the fox.

"But now you are going to cry!" said the little prince.

"Yes, that is so," said the fox.

"Then it has done you no good at all... .

And he went back to meet the fox.

"Goodbye," he said.

"Goodbye," said the fox. "And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."

"What is essential is invisible to the eye," the little prince repeated, so that he would be sure to remember.

"It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important."

"It is the time I have wasted for my rose--" said the little prince, so that he would be sure to remember.

"Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox. "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed. You are responsible for your rose . . ."

We may love our pwBPD, but should not try to tame them, because when we accept responsibility, we condemn our own spirits to torment. They are untamable, and love should never be torturous. I think... .

[maxsterling]

Maybe I am in denial, but I don't see me trying to "tame" her or make her into something she is not.  I want her to be who she naturally is, and from that I can make a decision whether who she naturally is something that fits in with what I want for my life.  I don't feel like I am trying to change her, but I am comfortable being there for her and helping her if she asks for help.  But I do wish she was happy, not just for my sake but it really pains me to see someone so miserable.  It's hard for me to not want to help out.

I don't mind having an unconventional type relationship, but it has to be in a way that makes me feel comfortable and not hurt.  That means monogamous, otherwise I can only be friends.  "Friends with benefits" is something that would never work for who I am, and that situation would have to immediately end if I was to meet someone else - that would not be fair to the new partner.  And that also means respect for my individuality and who I naturally am.

[Conundrum]

I'm happy you've found peace with yours and I really appreciate you sharing a different take on having a relationship with a BPD. Were there any books, teachings, seminars, etc. that enabled you to understand your feelings and hers such that you are able to maintain what I assume is a "healthy" relationship? I'm very curious, thanks.

Peace is relative and all is not a bed of roses. My context is important. I've been married before for a relatively long time and am busy raising a preteen and teen. MY time is precious to me. The desire to share a domesticated life in a long term relationship is not compelling (at present).

This may be helpful. The teachings contain a great deal of wisdom. www.lamayeshe.com/index.php 

[frustrated b/f]

Personally, I could learn to deal with her shortcomings if she could even acknowledge them. Unfortunately, I cannot deal with it if she denies it.

Its' like handing me sh!t on a platter and professing it to be ice cream, then mad that I don't appreciate the ice cream!

[obtunded]

I've been married before for a relatively long time and am busy raising a preteen and teen. MY time is precious to me. The desire to share a domesticated life in a long term relationship is not compelling (at present).

I've also been married before (14 years) to a BPD and have an 18 year old and 10 year old from that marriage. My current failure is 4 years in with a BPD spouse and two children - almost 4 and almost 2, along with a bout with cancer and a much appreciated stroke of luck / second chance at life, so my time is also precious. I was lead to believe by my current wife that she was willing to accept our age difference (23 years) and wanted all the same things I did... . retirement (but with an active lifestyle, I've taken care of myself after working 30+ years in the medical field and seeing the failure of "health care" for most people), support for her education/career, moving to another state where we could enjoy the outdoor activities we can't now, raising our kids in an environment that allowed them to experience nature and outdoor activities such that their bodies and minds would thrive, and mostly enjoy a lifestyle that allowed us to appreciate each others company... . I really thought I had found my best friend, but instead I found myself placed on a pedestal that of course, I fell off.

Then comes the reality check of BPD and falling in love with someone who was not truly there. Neither of us have any addictions; neither had an affair... none of the "big" things that would drive two people apart. She felt as if she wasn't treated as an equal, felt "empty" all the time, had no self-esteem, suffered from anxiety / phobias, and was unable to accept that I would have stayed with her forever, so she left... . I often told her "I can't MAKE you happy, you have to find it in yourself" - but she couldn't forgive the perceived wrong doings, and wouldn't acknowledge her own, so progress was never made with restoring a relationship. Why? No idea. I understand that I couldn't make her change. So we tried. We failed. Time to move on.

And now I'm back to my own "words of wisdom" - I will find happiness, just without her... . I find it in my children and even though I'm getting closer to retirement, I'm enjoying my career more than ever. I'll continue my journey and look for someone to share it with... . my wife can't be the only woman in the world who likes hiking in the mountains, photography, and the occasional beer by a campfire... . oh wait, she didn't like beer... . her loss... . and more for me!

You're right... . time is precious and "I ain't wasting time no more" (gotta love the Allman Brothers!)

[patientandclear]

Conundrum: just wanted to say how much your post(s) on this topic resonate with me.  I am in a close something-slightly-more-than-friendship with my pwBPD.  Letting him come & go -- not trying to tame him -- is absolutely the key to us having anything worth having.  He flees anything that feels like an attempt to control him, yet will come when I hold the door open and wait.  It really requires "loving with an open hand."  Not something I had had a lot of practice with before.

Your idea of not having a "possessory interest" has been very influential with me.  Thank you for writing & sharing your approach.

Things are not all wine & roses for me/us.  Closeness still panics him.  I am still not completely sanguine about processing that without feeling hurt and rejected.  I am working on it.

Whatever it is we are doing sort of defies names and categories.  That's OK with me, so long as it has its own integrity, which I think it does.

I appreciate your leadership in talking about this approach.

[123Phoebe]

Why do we desire to tame them?

Because we have control issues ourselves.

When we work on OURSELVES, focus on OURSELVES and put that magnifying glass on the only thing we have any control over (OURSELVES), the desire to tame them lessens.

Sheesh, if someone was analyzing every single thing I did and pointing out my flaws, I'd run the other way, too.  

Why?  Because I'd think they have control issues.

Accept people for who they are.

[mcc503764]

Why do we desire to tame them?

Because we have control issues ourselves.

When we work on OURSELVES, focus on OURSELVES and put that magnifying glass on the only thing we have any control over (OURSELVES), the desire to tame them lessens.

Sheesh, if someone was analyzing every single thing I did and pointing out my flaws, I'd run the other way, too.  

Why?  Because I'd think they have control issues.

Accept people for who they are.

In MY situation, I didn't have "control" issues.  Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact... . the x had the "control" issues... .

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I think the context of the post was implying why do WE feel the NEED, and WHY does it HURT so BAD when your partner wont participate in a reciprocated r/s?

I was under a constant microscope with my xBPD, who is a therapist!  Every action was labeled as one thing or another, according to the DSM (aka... . auto repair manual)

I cant speak for anyone else here, but all I wanted was a healthy / reciprocated r/s... . it was never about "control," as I am not a 5-year old!

Thanks

MCC

[123Phoebe]

Why do we desire to tame them?

Because we have control issues ourselves.

When we work on OURSELVES, focus on OURSELVES and put that magnifying glass on the only thing we have any control over (OURSELVES), the desire to tame them lessens.

Sheesh, if someone was analyzing every single thing I did and pointing out my flaws, I'd run the other way, too.  

Why?  Because I'd think they have control issues.

Accept people for who they are.

In MY situation, I didn't have "control" issues.  Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact... . the x had the "control" issues... .

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I think the context of the post was implying why do WE feel the NEED, and WHY does it HURT so BAD when your partner wont participate in a reciprocated r/s?

I was under a constant microscope with my xBPD, who is a therapist!  Every action was labeled as one thing or another, according to the DSM (aka... . auto repair manual)

I cant speak for anyone else here, but all I wanted was a healthy / reciprocated r/s... . it was never about "control," as I am not a 5-year old!

Thanks

MCC

Control issues can manifest in any number of ways, mcc503764. 

Glad to hear you don't have any!

[Scout99]

Conundrum wrote:

However, we both had little desire to cut each other out of our lives in toto. We each believed that our connection could transcend conventional definitions regarding relationship status. We still have love for each other, but I do not harbor a possessory interest in her. Why try to tame her, when the evidence is overwhelming that she cannot be tamed. I let go of that desire, hence the reason for being on this board. I do not define our status as a failed relationship, because that devalues the significance of our many good years together. That period in our lives was finite, as all things are, as all things change.

I too want to express my appreciation for your input on this. It does not however resonate as well to me as it may to others, since I don't really recognize the behaviors of your BPD SO compared to my now ex BPD bf... .

I understand from reading some of your other posts that the relationship you have with your SO, plays well with your religious/philosophical beliefs that I assume are a bit on the Buddhist orientation? Having such a belief system I understand can probably be to at least some degree helpful when having a pw BPD in your life... .

From hanging at this board and from having the experience of both being in a very abusive relationship with a man who turned out to be NPD before I met the man I have been in some kind of relationship with the past year, as well as understanding the DSM, I have come to realize that there is a very wide plethora of differences in people having this disorder... . There are those capable of having what you are experiencing with your SO, and there are those who cannot, and all else in between... . So I don't think you can simplify it with just stating that it is a matter of wanting to tame someone or not... . But that is just my opinion.

Now in my case, I don't ever think I was out to "tame" the man I fell in love with... . On the contrary he was trying to tame me. I never instigated the word relationship between us, partly due to the fact that there would at least be some years before we could even contemplate living in the same city, and I was not really pursuing any long distance r/s to begin with. I always used the term getting to know each other, and then see wherever that would take us... . that is I had throughout our entire time together never any other goal with what we had, but to let time let things run its course... . The one who wanted to label what we had, was him... . He wanted it to be called a relationship, and pursued that with ferociousness. At times... . And then the opposite - us just being friends... . At times... . Like a pendulum if you will... . The problem was, he never seemed to listen to whatever I would have to say on the matter, since in his mind there is no in between. It is either or, black or white... . So I never really tried to make him do so... . I did what felt right to me and that was to let time run its course and see what would come out of it... . The terminology was not too important to me... .

But he had a problem with the 2,5 hour distance between us... . At times... .

If I did anything, I may have at times complied with or allowed myself to be swept with his overly enthusiastic dreams about our future together when he was in the relationship mood. And I was perhaps not as swept away with his turns the other way around since he often in a rather unpleasant fashion wanted to degrade and devalue me at those times. But mostly I just stood my ground and wanted things to be a bit more open... . He could not handle that, due to anxiety, OCD issues, BPD thinking and what not... .

There was nothing uniquely ethereal about it, he was suffering in his disorder, and received no help, so his condition had for the past few years been deteriorating, with more anxiety issues, more obsessions and more suffering to put it mildly. And I felt, and still feel very sorry for him. Since of course behind all that there is a wonderful person, who is just so very lost and lonely it is sad to see... . However I knew for a fact that there was nothing I could do to help him, or fix him... . I could only be me... .

And that was a huge difference in me compared to the tormenting h*ll I had been in with my ex NPD man, who made it his business to milk me for everything I got, while I tried to change in order for him to be pleased with me... . In all honesty I don't think I tried to control him either... . But then I had no control over myself. I do now.

But it still did not work out... . Because he, my BPD guy, could not handle me not engaging in his mood swings... . He needed me to in order for him to get release from his anxiety... . He needs the push and pull to believe what is happening is real... . And I just finally couldn't be just zen about it... . Because he just didn't know how to stop... . And the more I just stood still, the more he danced... .

I think from what I read from your story, there are some differences in the different dynamics when I compare your experience from mine... . I believe that maybe there is a bit of age difference between the two of you, whereas I and my guy are about the same age... . ? please correct me if I am wrong, but If so, I think a bit of fatherly approach that I feel can be detected from your way of describing things may work in your favor, whereas the equality in dynamics may have worked against my ex BPD and I... .

I know for a fact that he has one particular lady friend, who is about 15 years his senior, who he in the beginning had some kind of friends with benefits thing with, and then discarded, but who still have been relentless in staying in touch with him... . And whenever he starts to have intimacy issues with his relationships or problems with anxiety, he therefore often turns to her... . She probably has taken on a bit of a maternal role in his life, albeit getting some sexual satisfaction out of it too... .  And in the end that may very well prove to be one of the most long term "relationships" he will ever have... .

Even though what he wishes for most is a "normal" relationship living together and doing all the "normal" things that "normal" people do... . But probably that will to him be an unattainable goal... . Even though I hope not... .

Anyway, my point to all this is, I think that different people with BPD act differently and have different needs at different times... . And it is not always control issues or some will to tame them that makes relationships with them fail... . At least that is the conclusion I have arrived to, at this point in my life... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[ucmeicu2]

I see so much suffering on this board. It is utterly heartbreaking. I ask myself, why do we desire to possess these uniquely wired people in rigid conventional ways?  They always let us down. It is too much pressure and stress for them. They rarely can be tamed. <cut> Why do we desire to tame them? 

hi conundrum, i don't know ~ it's a conundrum!  

seriously though, i asked myself that many times in the 4 years with my xBPDgf.  "why can't i just hold her loosely?  why do i have to squeeze so tightly?"  i applaud you for being able to come to a r/s with your BPD that works for both of you.  god knows i tried.  just couldn't do it.  i've been NC for 5 months and i still entertain thoughts of being able to achieve what you have.

this is embarrassing to admit, but i guess i just became kinda obsessed w/her.  i needed her to be mine 100%.  i needed what she couldn't give.  i needed what she didn't even have.  and i couldn't live with that.  with me and her it was all or nothing, so i chose nothing.

icu2

[O.Hi]

Definitely an interesting thread.

Conundrum, I have a few questions:

• What happened during the "letting go" phase? What did you do? How did she respond?



• What about her changed after the diagnosis?



• What treatment has she pursued?



• Is she able to find her own happiness? Could she when she was your SO?



• What boundaries have you set with her?



• Did/does she ever paint you black? Criticize? Blame?



• Does she get jealous?

[Conundrum]

Many good people to respond to. This is about alternatives to despair. Not universals, but a dialogue for hope. To be real. To accept that it is not shameful to be attracted to and love these "kaleidoscope" people--regardless of outcome, we must stop shaming ourselves. The converse to self-shame is hating on them. We all are so much better than that, because if anything we are some of the most empathetic people you'll find anywhere. Whether success, failure, or something in-between be proud that you tried in the "best of ways" where others before you abused.

patientandclear: Thanks for the complimentary thoughts. I've learned much more from others than I've lead. Too many posts to even begin to enumerate from amazing members, ambassadors, and mods have lead me in unexpected directions--including you. That post of yours from a few days ago containing the "heroin" analogy was brilliant.

Scout: You're correct, 16 year age gap. I agree that circumstances are never universal. My post was less about control per se, but how our own results oriented desires contributes to a pwBPD feeling entrapped inside the non's box. Are there less restrictive approaches?

ucmeicu2: Many of us have been obsessed, including me. They have a mythic quality to them. In Salem, there's a high probability that these were the women burned. Just a wild guess though... .

O.HI. You really want to put me to work  . I've already finished that part of the day. Just going to write fast b/c I'm wiped from my workday.

Letting go: Was NC for a bit. Didn't see her. A few weeks later met her in the parking lot of her work. She wanted a few items. We just automatically were drawn to each other and kissed. Letting go though is not that complicated (for me). I will simply be doomed if I try to recreate the domestic situation we had. It will not work. Either accept reality or perish.

Change after Diagnosis: I knew she had serious issues before. What changed for me was educating myself on the disorder. Outcome rather bleak. For her, dunno--she was already back on drugs and booze when that occurred.

Treatment: Very scattered, patchwork, a taste of mindfulness and DBT. Her follow through is weak when she's an addict.

Happiness: No--immediate gratification takes her mind off things. With me she felt, safe, comfortable, and perhaps there were glimmers of happiness.

Boundaries: Currently, when with me, don't leave to go screw someone else. As for verbal or physical abuse. For the most part that's not a problem between us.

Paint Black, criticize, blame: Only when she sees a red door (j/k). Of course, she has BPD. But, that's occurs when dysregulated.  Overall she chills back to baseline in an acceptable if eccentric manner. She never physically rages anymore. That hasn't happened in years.

Jealousy: Yes she gets jealous, but not raging jealous. So do I, but not out-of-control. It comes with the territory.

I can shorten what you're getting at though. Her NEEDS are vastly different than my needs. My NEEDS are vastly different than her needs. Where we overlap is common ground. It's somewhat amorphous. Our loves transcends this NEEDs gap. Still, that gap is why we can't ever have a conventional stable LTR. So it goes... .    

[O.Hi]

I can shorten what you're getting at though. Her NEEDS are vastly different than my needs. My NEEDS are vastly different than her needs. Where we overlap is common ground. It's somewhat amorphous. Our loves transcends this NEEDs gap. Still, that gap is why we can't ever have a conventional stable LTR. So it goes... .  

Many thanks! That is really helpful.

[Katy-Did]

Regardless, it appears you and your SO have achieved a balance in your relationship which seems to be mutually satisfying.  Your arrangement reminds me of others who have set aside convention because they treasured  "the connection" between them:  George Barnard Shaw/Mrs. Campbell, Katharine Hepburn/Spencer Tracy... . even Napoleon/Josephine. 

Some of us endeavor to "mate for life", so-to-speak.  Do you have any long-term aspirations regarding your SO?  Do you see yourselves interacting on some level "till death to you part"?

[patientandclear]

I agree that this is a form of sustained connection that pwBPD may be better able to maintain than a conventional r/s. The man I am on this board about prioritizes our r/s & acts as though it is very important. We don't use labels or words for that, though.

MaybeSo quoted the Robert Redford character in Out of Africa saying "I would mate for life--one day at a time."  And I think this is what may actually work for someone wBPD, so long as there is no need for a promise or obligation which they then breach when they have to pull away due to aversion to/fear of closeness.  Less disappointment, guilt, shame ... .

[LetItBe]

Thank you for this thread, conundrum.  You've given me some really good food for thought.  I found this especially helpful:

To accept that it is not shameful to be attracted to and love these "kaleidoscope" people--regardless of outcome, we must stop shaming ourselves. The converse to self-shame is hating on them. We all are so much better than that, because if anything we are some of the most empathetic people you'll find anywhere. Whether success, failure, or something in-between be proud that you tried in the "best of ways" where others before you abused.

When my uBPDxbf broke an agreement that was important to me, I thought, "Wouldn't any self-respecting, healthy woman walk away now?"  I felt ashamed of the part of me that wasn't quite ready to finalize that, the part of me that still loved him.  I also felt very angry with him.  It became easier for me to focus on the anger I felt toward him than to acknowledge the sad, hurt part of me that missed him, but -- I found myself stuck.  What I was repressing got bigger until I couldn't ignore it anymore.  I had to own that I missed him.  I will always love him.  You are right -- there is no shame in that.

Also, thank you Phoebe for this:

Sheesh, if someone was analyzing every single thing I did and pointing out my flaws, I'd run the other way, too. 

I'm sure my ex felt that I was holding him under a microscope, even though it wasn't my intention.  Yeah, I would run the other way if I felt that way, too.

If we want to stay sane, we really have no choice but to accept people the way they are.  I'm finally starting to accept that none of his behavior was personal and that it was the disorder taking over when he was stressed.  That makes it easier for me to let go of my own guilt and shame... . and to love him, even if it's not "conventional."

[Clearmind]

Phoebe, I would agree with you that it has a lot to do with control. Depending on our upbringing control does manifest in various ways.

If we didn't want to control then why were we so hell bent on changing them to fit our needs? Many of us wanted to change a person to fit what we thought our desired partner was instead of permitting them to be and let them free. Totally agree Phoebe.

Control is the corner stone of a dysfunctional relationship - both vie for a position in the relationship to get their needs met. In healthy relationship the need to do this does not exist.

[sm15000]

I see so much suffering on this board. It is utterly heartbreaking. I ask myself, why do we desire to possess these uniquely wired people in rigid conventional ways?  They always let us down. It is too much pressure and stress for them. They rarely can be tamed. We've all heard (I imagine) something to the effect, "If you want something very, very badly, let it go free.  If it comes back to you, it’s yours forever. If it doesn't, it was never yours to begin with." As we all know pwBPD come back all the time. Why is that rarely acceptable or enough for us nons? Why do we desire to tame them?  

Conundrum,

Thought provoking post!

I imagine you see so much suffering on these boards for a number of reasons. . .not everyone has had the same dynamic in their r/ships as you.  Your SO sounds like a classic BPD and has now been dxd, from which you have made a decision regarding the way you manage your r/s. . .and I congratulate you - you sound very emotionally mature and able to deal with it.

I had a long-distance r/s for 13 years. . .in hindsight yes, red flags along the way but very sporadic and well managed by someone who, from being on the boards, I would describe as HF BPD/NPD (very likely more N). . .really very well hidden - no raging, mood swings, silent treatment etc.  

We never had a conventional, rigid-style r/s - and he never got any pressure from me to do so - in fact I don't know how much more freedom someone could have.  However, *we* expressed to each other that our r/s was as committed and important as any co-habiting/marriage arrangement, even though the rest of the world seemed to see it as weird.

It still all went horribly wrong. . .he turned into Mr Hyde, serial shagging, lying, manipulating, twisting, projecting,  gas-lighting, spitefully devaluing me - I can't describe to you the shock. . .and although some of it may have been through panic and desperation, he was quite willing (and intently) to save his own face at the expense of my sanity.  Shame based I know, but jeez. . .it doesn't sound like your SO has put you through such a mindf**k?

Personally, I could learn to deal with her shortcomings if she could even acknowledge them. Unfortunately, I cannot deal with it if she denies it.  Its' like handing me sh!t on a platter and professing it to be ice cream, then mad that I don't appreciate the ice cream!

Precisely. . .this is why I had to let my ex go - there was no way forward, he gave me no choice. . .except to shut up, sweep it all under the carpet, let him do whatever he wanted without any conversation and accept the crumbs he threw me.  As others have said, I can do unconventional but I won't do being controlled any more than he will.

Saying that, I've had a lot of cognitive dissonance about not keeping contact. . .he frequently attempted this but his constant self-pity and attempt to schmooze me really pissed me off in the end, especially as I have been out of work.  I've very much missed his presence in my life but I had to disengage, accept reality and mourn the loss of what I thought we had without him around at all. . .it's taken me 2 yrs