Violated intimacy issues as a reason for partially not being able to let go

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Dear all,

I’m sorry for not having posted for a while. I guess I’ve gone through a period where I questioned if my exBPD really was BPD or if in fact I was the one that is not behaving normally. My therapist keeps telling me that she is the classic BPD... . however, ever since she told me in April that she no longer has feelings for me and I should stop emailing and calling her, I’ve not been able to let go. I’ve called and left messages and emailed on a quite regular basis, and even travelled to a different country for a day because I knew she would be there (that was in July). I think I mentioned in a previous post about her writing a couple of people bad things about me at a festival I was at (and she had been the previous year) and how after that I was able to stop writing and calling her until she wrote me a concerned email. Her writing me was truly like a bomb shell... . it was written in the same kind of sweet considerate style that she used to write me in the beginning of our relationship. My universe was flipped up side down and I began to question everything and thought maybe she was the one, maybe I had misunderstood everything, etc. But then two days later she wrote me again in the same style and said she needed a person that could stand up for her and I was not in a position to do that... .

My therapist keeps telling me that contact with her is toxic for me and that she is not a healthy person. However, I have since been emailing her (but not calling) 1-2 times a day and have told her I want to come visit her. When I saw her in July I told her so much how much I loved her... . this time I want to see her and actually tell I’m not even sure I would marry her. I would like to ask her if she can tell me how she has hurt me. For many months, all we have talked about is how I have hurt her... . how she is innocent and young and a victim and how I’ve hurt her so many times. I’ve apologized and apologized and apologized. But I don’t ever remember us having a longer mature talk about how I have felt hurt. Looking back, I realized I was afraid to bring things up. Once I brought up that I really felt uncomfortable with her still sharing a bed with her boyfriend both before and after my visit and I asked if she felt comfortable... . her response was ‘why do I suddenly get blamed’ and ‘I don’t feel comfortable with many things’ and she became very cold for a while after that.

When I reflect about why it is so hard for me to let go, I think that part of the reason is that I lost my own dignity and self-respect to some degree in the relationship. I’ve posted earlier about how I felt pressure from her from a very early stage to have sex with her. I remember the first time she asked and I said no. She begged and ended up sulking the whole day but I remember so clearly feeling good about myself that I was able to say no and stick to it. However, as time went on she would insist on speaking about it, would threaten to leave me until finally I caved. Before I did, I insisted that she understand what a big deal it was, that we should not do it lightly, etc... . but she just nodded her head and did not really engage in a discussion. She had made me feel so guilty about rejecting her and hurting her that I seriously came to feel that if I could make her happy in whatever way, it was my obligation to do so (she has told me so often).  It was awful and I felt SO dirty afterwards. Right before the act I saw my soul burning in the flames of hell... . but I could not say no. I felt so trapped. She was upset afterwards partly because I had not come... . but how could I? At that moment I knew that a boarder had been overpassed that would be irreversble.

However, I should add that when we did it again a couple of months later, it truly was the most amazing sex ever I had had and one of the most emotional and moving experiences of my life. At that point I guess some of the guilt and shame had worn off.

I feel I could have eventually accepted her suddenly leaving and cutting ties with me if there would have been no sex. I really do. But the fact is I sacrificed and violated such a big part of what it means to be me. I just don’t seem to be able to accept that that same someone is just able to a couple of months later write me an email saying she does not feel comfortable communicating with me and does not and will not have feelings for me (she says because I hurt her so much). Besides the fact she said she was sure I was the one... . (and I was her first, I was the first person she said she loved, etc)

I know what I ultimately need to do is forgive her, forgive myself, put this behind me and move on. But I don’t know if I’ll get there. Lately my stomach has really been hurting and I’ve had no energy. I honestly think my body is becoming physically affected from this whole situation.

Please, if someone would read this and share with me their thoughts, I would be so grateful. I’m really not doing so well.

[Jhensohn]

Dear all,

I’m sorry for not having posted for a while. I guess I’ve gone through a period where I questioned if my exBPD really was BPD or if in fact I was the one that is not behaving normally. My therapist keeps telling me that she is the classic BPD... . however, ever since she told me in April that she no longer has feelings for me and I should stop emailing and calling her, I’ve not been able to let go. I’ve called and left messages and emailed on a quite regular basis, and even travelled to a different country for a day because I knew she would be there (that was in July). I think I mentioned in a previous post about her writing a couple of people bad things about me at a festival I was at (and she had been the previous year) and how after that I was able to stop writing and calling her until she wrote me a concerned email. Her writing me was truly like a bomb shell... . it was written in the same kind of sweet considerate style that she used to write me in the beginning of our relationship. My universe was flipped up side down and I began to question everything and thought maybe she was the one, maybe I had misunderstood everything, etc. But then two days later she wrote me again in the same style and said she needed a person that could stand up for her and I was not in a position to do that... .

My therapist keeps telling me that contact with her is toxic for me and that she is not a healthy person. However, I have since been emailing her (but not calling) 1-2 times a day and have told her I want to come visit her. When I saw her in July I told her so much how much I loved her... . this time I want to see her and actually tell I’m not even sure I would marry her. I would like to ask her if she can tell me how she has hurt me. For many months, all we have talked about is how I have hurt her... . how she is innocent and young and a victim and how I’ve hurt her so many times. I’ve apologized and apologized and apologized. But I don’t ever remember us having a longer mature talk about how I have felt hurt. Looking back, I realized I was afraid to bring things up. Once I brought up that I really felt uncomfortable with her still sharing a bed with her boyfriend both before and after my visit and I asked if she felt comfortable... . her response was ‘why do I suddenly get blamed’ and ‘I don’t feel comfortable with many things’ and she became very cold for a while after that.

When I reflect about why it is so hard for me to let go, I think that part of the reason is that I lost my own dignity and self-respect to some degree in the relationship. I’ve posted earlier about how I felt pressure from her from a very early stage to have sex with her. I remember the first time she asked and I said no. She begged and ended up sulking the whole day but I remember so clearly feeling good about myself that I was able to say no and stick to it. However, as time went on she would insist on speaking about it, would threaten to leave me until finally I caved. Before I did, I insisted that she understand what a big deal it was, that we should not do it lightly, etc... . but she just nodded her head and did not really engage in a discussion. She had made me feel so guilty about rejecting her and hurting her that I seriously came to feel that if I could make her happy in whatever way, it was my obligation to do so (she has told me so often).  It was awful and I felt SO dirty afterwards. Right before the act I saw my soul burning in the flames of hell... . but I could not say no. I felt so trapped. She was upset afterwards partly because I had not come... . but how could I? At that moment I knew that a boarder had been overpassed that would be irreversble.

However, I should add that when we did it again a couple of months later, it truly was the most amazing sex ever I had had and one of the most emotional and moving experiences of my life. At that point I guess some of the guilt and shame had worn off.

I feel I could have eventually accepted her suddenly leaving and cutting ties with me if there would have been no sex. I really do. But the fact is I sacrificed and violated such a big part of what it means to be me. I just don’t seem to be able to accept that that same someone is just able to a couple of months later write me an email saying she does not feel comfortable communicating with me and does not and will not have feelings for me (she says because I hurt her so much). Besides the fact she said she was sure I was the one... . (and I was her first, I was the first person she said she loved, etc)

I know what I ultimately need to do is forgive her, forgive myself, put this behind me and move on. But I don’t know if I’ll get there. Lately my stomach has really been hurting and I’ve had no energy. I honestly think my body is becoming physically affected from this whole situation.

Please, if someone would read this and share with me their thoughts, I would be so grateful. I’m really not doing so well.

[Ittookthislong]

i know how you feel. same here. i lost my pride loonnnnng ago. and then after its already lost and i thought about what was going on i raged. i seemed like a BPD, (i never felt that kind of painb before, no excuse to ever defend myself like that and i think i took on learned defense from BPD mom)

If you really want her back or want to influence her in any way you literally have to do the opposite of what you want to do which is contact her or explain anything. drop off the map. not that im encouraging you to be manipulative but think black and white like they do.

this is a good question, sometimes i giggle a bit when people say how irritated they are that their BPD ex wont leave them alone or let go. It stands to reason based on the disorder that all you would have to do to get them to lose interest is flip the script and call them ten times a day and tell them you cant live without them, where they are, who they are with, and the BPD would shut off... . i think people may not want to admit they like the calls. your case is a little different you have to do the opposite of what your emotions are doing. act as she does. put on your poker face. drop off the map with no warning. she will eventually feel her lack of control, it may take a while but be patient and sh'll be like "wait a sec, why isnt he flying around the world to see me on a whim? Am I worthless, I am arent I, I need him, he's the only one who can make me not worthless"

sorry- this was a bit mocking of BPD. i was meaning for the to be well illustrated not to mock

[Surnia]

Hi Jhenson

good to hear you again! And I feel sorry that you are not well right now. 

I can relate that you would like to have some acceptance/empathy from her side that you are hurt too in this rs. Its quite possible that it will never happen. Not because you failed - bc her interpersonal issues.

Do you know this workshop? If not, this could be helpful:

US: When is good sex a bad thing? [romantic partners]

Does your T know about the regular email contact?

[GreenMango]

Hi your post got me thinking.  You sound in a really bad place tonight.  Sometimes our words echoed back look different.  I normally don't do this and I want to know you deserve better.

her writing a couple of people bad things about me at a festival I was at (and she had been the previous year) and how after that I was able to stop writing and  calling her until she wrote me a concerned email.

She's betrayed you to other people at work. (i read the thread about this).  Then was worried about her reputation after you confronted her.  Then she emails you some sickly sweet letter

Really... .

she needed a person that could stand up for her and I was not in a position to do that...

How can anybody want to fight for or stand up for another person that repeatedly violates them or hurts them?  Illogical.

I would like to ask her if she can tell me how she has hurt me. For many months, all we have talked about is how I have hurt her... . how she is innocent and young and a victim and how I’ve hurt her so many times. I’ve apologized and apologized and apologized. But I don’t ever remember us having a longer mature talk about how I have felt hurt.

So you've apologized repeatedly but she's using this to emotional flog you repeatedly?  Even if you she didn't hurt you - there's a point where enough is enough of this.  The other person accepts it and decides to move forward or they don't.  They don't get to move forward with the condition of continually dragging up previously resolved issues - its not part of fair conflict resolution and this crap needs to be shut down.

Once I brought up that I really felt uncomfortable with her still sharing a bed with her boyfriend both before and after my visit and I asked if she felt comfortable... . her response was ‘why do I suddenly get blamed’ and ‘I don’t feel comfortable with many things’

So she's allowed to hammer you but stonewalls when you try to bring something up that upsets you?  

Ps being involved with someone who is in a relationship who's cheating would be a no go for many people.  Not judging just think of it this way if a person does this with you they'd probably do it to you.  Speaks to integrity.

. I’ve posted earlier about how I felt pressure from her from a very early stage to have sex with her. I remember the first time she asked and I said no. She begged and ended up sulking the whole day but I remember so clearly feeling good about myself that I was able to say no and stick to it. However, as time went on she would insist on speaking about it, would threaten to leave me until finally I caved.

Pressure for sex and sulking ... .  What a child!  It also speaks to lack of respect for other boundaries.  

She was upset afterwards partly because I had not come... . but how could I?

She has problems.  Clearly.

I think you've got some guilt on a few levels - keep working towards forgiving yourself.  We all make mistakes it how we deal with them and what we learn and do differently.

Here's one thing you may want to consider most people do not like to be abandoned or left but they don't choose to endure unconditionally.  The problem lies when we choose to stay regardless of treatment (unconditionally) instead of facing that abandonment/aloneness.  Staying through hellishness just to not be alone.  

What's so bad about being without her considering all the things that have happened?

[Jhensohn]

Dear all,

Thank you so much. An other reason why this is so hard is because she is really a wonderful musician, one of the best I've ever played with. And since our instruments fit really well, we could do great things together profesionally. I know that sounds shallow, but that's hard for me to give up. Also, she really was the first person I fell in love with and who I thought loved be back also.

And if I'm really honest, the things I did that hurt her were hard for me to understand... . she wanted me to break off professional contacts because they gave her (what she percieved) a cold look. She would get hurt because she would say I did not feel her pain. She would get hurt because I would not drop everything and drive eight hours to visit her. Etc... .

More soon... .

[saw_tooth]

Similar things happened between me and my now ex-BPD guy.

We slept together for the first time because our emotional bond was super strong and he made me feel loved,wanted and took care of my every need till his abandonment fears got triggered and he shut down.

For 3 months he would not reply to me,give 1 word replies and not tell me why he was acting distant.I confronted him and told him to stop this weird behavior(din't know of BPD then).He told me to date others because he was 'not good enough for me' but acted jealous when he realized a friend had asked me out(I had turned down the invite,but still).He met me that evening and vacillated between not wanting to touch me and make love.We did make love and it was fantastic.

One month later,he wanted to see me.He would behave like a 5 year old,rage and stomp if I did not drop everything and meet him.I would usually make time but was super busy and said I can't meet today,will meet 2 days later.I did message him 2 days later that I was free to meet.

Perhaps I was de-valued and 'split black' due to this supposed 'rejection'.

After that he hid and when spoken to,would act like everything is normal when I cared only to tell me 'It was never a relationship,I never felt anything,I never wanted to come close' 8 months later.Told me to 'stop caring so much' about him .Also told me he was averse to being touched now and would not be able to tolerate even our fingers brushing because 'It is wrong for him'.Was that 'plagued' by the possibility of touch even though he was the one who would initiate all intimacy sessions.This was followed by absolute insistence on 'staying friends' and a lot of projection and sweetness from him.The rapid shift from harshness to sweetness within seconds was difficult to fathom then.

Being split black and spit out all of a sudden for no relevant reason hurt back then,more so when I  had bestowed upon him care and love and had utilized every ounce of your inherent patience in dealing with his incongruities.Making love is synonymous to embedding your emotions in a person and being cast away for no fault of ours when all we want to do is love them is super awful and hard to accept.

I cried all night and almost starved for a week but then came to terms with the fact that he is sick and does not behave the way he does on purpose.

OP,I can feel your pain.

Please understand that it could never have been 'love' in the real sense of the term because the people we ,from our side,loved deeply were too sick to fathom and reciprocate it in equal measure.

Give yourself time,this too shall pass.Take care.