Dissociative episodes

[croovis]

Hey all. I was thinking about some crazy stuff I've seen with my BPDex, and I want to know if anyone else experienced anything similar.

Has anyone had seen their BPDex go through bizarre dissociative episodes?

There were many times in my relationship with my ex, after sex/her orgasm (but not always sex related), that she would get this look on her face... . she would look like kind of paralyzed and you could see sadness in her eyes. She might start crying and shaking  and trembling but be unable to move or communicate for quite some time. She would try to speak but nothing or little blurts of noise would come out. If she wasn't quite paralyzed, she might repetitively move her head in the same direction, with wide, checked out or fearful eyes. Shed pull away from my touch. She might rub or pull on her hair, or rub her arms repetitively... . In general, lots of repetitive movements and strange impulsive faces. At first it freaked me out, but I eventually learned to live with it (although it always made me sad).

I think sometimes she saw things in her head while this was happening. One time I asked her to describe the image she saw... . she said it was a table that was spinning, tilted... . I think It made her feel a kind of mental nausea, disorientation. The colors of the table were off looking and upsetting, and maybe there were objects on it that she didn't like.  I never knew what this was about. One time I asked after sex what she felt (when one of these episodes came on) and she said she felt something drop out beneath her (inside feelings) and I guess she sunk into a pit of sadness. She insists that she's never been abused.

Throughout our relationship she slowly got worse and worse. When I thought I had seen the craziest thing ive ever seen, she managed to top it (although I will say she never really fully raged at me, more of a waif). One time she tried to "commit suicide" with her prescription meds. I thought it was fake though because I looked up those meds on the web, and you cant kill yourself with them. She also started, out of nowhere, doing insane amounts of coke with men she had just recently met (we were recycling a lot at this time), and it was making her dissociated episodes worse. She would take a knife and shallow cut her skin- not enough to bleed, but enough to hurt and leave raised marks that would last days and burn. This became a pretty frequent method she used to deal with her pain.

Well, there were a couple of nights I will never forget. I came over at night and she was laying on her side, in her underwear, unable to move. She had cuts all over her body. Cuts on her arms, legs, chest, belly, neck. Hundreds of them. It looked like something out of a horror movie. What an image. She started having one of the worst freakouts I'd ever seen, really looking like she was losing it. Then she sat up straight and started using her hands to draw a circle around her self on the bed that I wasn't supposed to enter. She got a really kind of catatonic look on her face, and started speaking to me in a checked out voice. Me: A?  Her: She's not here right now. Me: What?

Her: A's not here right now. I then proceeded to have a forty minute conversation with her, or rather, J, her grandmother who had committed suicide. This was the character I was talking to. She told me about how she was going to take A to be with her, help her kill herself, how nobody understood that she needed to die. I asked to hold her hand but she told me she had never met me before. This was all a pretty surreal experience, with a dead suicided "ghost" who remained totally congruent in character. I had been crying, and when A came to, she was surprised to see me crying. J came back a little later, and I told her that I was going to tell A's family about this. She gave me the eeriest smile and told me that they wouldn't believe me. I walked out of the house.

A few nights later I was with her in her room, cuddling her. Its dark and we just have one candle lit. She starts freaking out again, saying "why is she saying these terrible things to me?"  I tell her to fight back, to talk back. She tells me that "shes so big and im so little". Shes whining and whimpering and rocking back and forth a lot. I tell her "tell J THIS IS MY HEAD, NOT YOURS". She says, "its not my head, its not my head". Theres more dialogue but I cant remember, it was all very intense. Then suddenly, she stops talking, stops moving, just totally silent and still. Me, "A? A? A?" No response. I shake her. Nothing. Shes facing away from me. 30 seconds pass, a minute, just stillness and flickering candle. Then, in a very threatening voice, she says "She's not allowed to talk right now". Well, that was all I needed. I ran out of that house and started biking home fast. I was shaking and I wanted to vomit. I was full of fear, a kind of fearful disgust. I know in retrospect it was just mental illness, but at that time It felt almost evil.

Well, I tried many times to bring these episodes up to her, but she did not want to hear about it. Deep down she knew something wasn't right but we weren't allowed to talk about it (too upsetting a subject matter). I finally got her to listen to me about what happened. She had no recollection. But she told me that she will hear 3 different voices in her head- this happens during the freakouts. One is a scared little girl, the other is J, who is apparently harsh and not very friendly, and the third is a kind of shadowy figure who is very hateful and has a foul, castigating scornful mouth (she thinks its a male since shes "never heard a woman talk that way). She told me she pictues them in the other 3 corners of the room, and I guess they all have their voice.

I told her mother about the episodes, and not even she had ever witnessed such a thing. It was during these times that I realized that mental illness had put too great a barrier between us. I thought she was losing her sanity and as a result, her personhood. I stopped sleeping over at night because it scared the bejeesus out of me. It seemed like she actually started to get better after this, and was trying to quit drugs. But I don't know what the result was. I don't know if the episodes continues or not. We don't talk anymore.

I told my T about it and he thought she might have been hamming it up for me. I suspected this as well but I really just don't know. It was also pretty scary and believable at the time.

Does anyone else have any experience with this kind of craziness? Witness odd dissociative episodes? Did she have something worse than BPD? Indicator of abuse?

I want to hear any similar stories.

[struggli]

I can throw a few examples out there and many were sexually related.  Sex became more twisted towards the end -- blatant manipulation -- which is part of why I knew it was time to move on.

She would sometimes put a pillow over my face, or put her hand over my face during sex.  Not to suffocate me, but to hide me.

One time was really off the wall.  Our relationship was deteriorating and she was going out to bars with her guy friends while telling me she needed space.  So I started going out with female friends.  Well, we bumped into each other one night while she was "needing space" and she got irate that I was having a drink with another woman despite her having drinks with her all male entourage.  She then shifted to "I'm glad you're finally acting like a man and doing your own thing."  So initially she was jealous, then turned on by my disrespect for her.  The truth is I would have rather been with my uBPDex but since she was pushing me away, I started pushing away too.  I had been through the cycle too many times to follow her like a puppy.

Anyway, to the point.  When we got home, she told me to f--k her, something she had never done before.  She ripped my clothes off literally ripping a 70 dollar shirt.  She was knocking things over, broke a lamp and other things and was laughing.  I threw her on the bed and she kept demanding I f--k her.  So I ripped her clothes off as well and started ramming her all animalistic style.  She was super turned on by it.  Then I told her to get on top of me and after about 30 seconds of her on top she started crying but kept going.  I was no longer turned on and asked her to stop.  She fell over on the bed, curled up in the fetal position and started sobbing.  I just covered her up and sat on the edge of the bed.  Then she started looking around like she had just witnessed a murder, very jumpy and terror in her eyes.  She asked me where she was and who else was at my house.  I told her we were alone.  She didn't believe me, so I held her hand while we walked around looking under the bed, behind the shower curtain and so on.  Then she asked how old she was.  I told her to tell me how old she was and she said 6.  I told her to try again.  After about 5 tries she got her correct age.  Then she asked me mine and seemed confused and frightened when I answered her.  She sat on the couch shivering and wrapped in a blanket for about 15 minutes while I just sat silently next to her.  Then she got in the bathtub and laid in the bottom of it crying while the water was running.  She plugged the drain with her foot (it appeared to be an accident) and the water started filling up.  When it got about an inch deep, I open the drain again.  (The next day she said I was going to let her drown herself and I didn't even care.)  I don't remember what happened next but that was the end of the dramatic part.



In retrospect, the only times she was ever turned on was if we were play fighting before sex.  Maybe she was reenacting violent rape or something. 

And the only other time she was really turned on was when I visited my parents and showed her the bed I slept in when I was very young.  She wanted to me do her on that bed.

There were a few times at the beginning of the relationship where after sex she would say she felt like she was 50 feet away from me and that everything was blurry, despite laying right next to me.

She several times had the deer in the headlights look during sex and I would stop and she would just turn away from me and not say anything.

I always had to guess what was going on with her.  I had told her on several occasions that she should tell me when there is a problem or tap me on the shoulder or whatever and I would stop.  But she never implemented that policy.  I'd just have to look for subtle changes in her facial expressions to know it was time to stop.


Regarding non-sexual stuff:

I was leaving for a trip (our first time apart) and she was in another world when talking to me.  She wouldn't look at me and seemed to be in another world like she was just looking through everything or even hallucinating.

Dissociation was ultimately the downfall of the relationship.  Our entire relationship would just cease to exist to her during her pushing away.  I could try talking to her and she just "wasn't there."

[croovis]

Struggli,

That is some crazy stuff!

You know, even though we obviously have different stories, there is so much about your post that feels familiar to me. It is a very strange experience to talk to someone who is checked out or reliving early memories or regressing. I feel like it really puts a wall up b/c it becomes obvious to you that this person cannot hold their own, mentally.

There was so much about my BPDex that reminded me of a child. And it really did seem like sometimes she was in another world, or didn't quite understand who I was or where we were... . like yours. Maybe she was transported to age 6 sometimes and I didn't quite realize it.

Another thing that used to make me so sad was seeing how sex between us would often make her check our or frightened or sad. I didn't want that to be the cause of suffering. But yes, my ex too would get very far away during these episodes after sex. Sometimes I would put my hand on her and she would shrug it off or keep pushing me away- I couldn't even comfort her through it. I think even once she managed to shout out "go away". Anyways, I may not be the most gentle of lovers but I certainly wanted sex to be a unitive force, not a separating one.

Thank you for your post. I related to that a lot.

[Ironmanrises]

I experienced this once in full bloom.

This occurred on my final trip to her city(3 days off to spend my birthday with her and her sons) that had been planned months before.

I was in her house alone.

She had returned from work that evening freaked out because there was a tornado scare in the vicinity.

I greeted her at the door no different then the other times i had stayed over.

She walked in and gave me such a bizarre look, i cant even describe it.

Almost like she did not recognize me.

She recoiled at the same time as she walked right past me without touching me through the doorway.

Im watching all of this in slow motion.

She walks to her kitchen.

I follow her to the kitchen a few minutes later to comfort her cause i know she was freaked out about tornado warning.

I go and literally just brush her forearm with my hand and tell her "come here let me hokd you"... .

Without even looking at me, she coldly says "No, do not touch me."

I freeze.

My mouth hangs open. I almost break down crying right then and there.

The way she said it.

The coldness/loathing in her voice.

It was like she kicked me in the face.

I hold my tears back.

I walk back to the living room and sit on her couch.

Her sons are there, they see my look of horror/dismay/sadness on my face.

They ask me, are you ok?

I barely nod on my head.

I sit on couch and close my eyes.

I felt so completely rejected. I wanted to disappear. I am far from home.

I am not wanted there.

Maybe 10 minutes pass by.

She walks to the living room.

I see her out of the corner of my eyes.

I dont turn my head.

Her head slowly turns to me... .

It was so surreal.

In a low voice that i barely can even hear, she asks me... .

"What did you eat for lunch baby?"

It took me seconds to even register what it was she even said.

My mind rips in 2 as i process the previous interaction in the kitchen to what she asked me in living room moments later.

Seconds later, i mumble "i ordered some rice and chicken"

All the while i am screaming inside.

That was the 2 distinct personalities that prior to that... . I had experienced only over the phone.

I was completely shook.

It unnerved me.

I didnt sleep that night.

I never want to see that again.

[changingme]

Croovis,

Yes I experienced this as well and I am glad you posted it because I haven't had the guts to ask.  This experience was the worst of the worst and it is something I have never mentioned to anyone. Ex doesn't recall any of it as well.  But word for word I too was told "S isn't here anymore" on more than one occasion and it was in connection with drinking.  One of those times he too made the connection to a dead person.  There was more with knives and all, sitting in the dark, etc.  Can't bring myself to talk in detail because looking back it is scary the type of things I was dealing with and the potential danger I was in while I too tried to calm him down or snap him out of these things until I saw my ex reappear and then we would just cry together.   :'(

[changingme]

Oh and I didn't know it was a mental illness thing back then but I thought it was an evil presence & I would too give the talks to tell ex to tell the things or figures he sees to go away!

[thisyoungdad]

I can completely relate, although it wasn't as much with sex but that did happen. Once even in couple's therapy the therapist who recognized the BPD straight up asked if she had that happen, and the therapist became convinced she really was having episodes so intense she literally couldn't remember whatever had gone on. That really scared me.

[croovis]

Ironmanfalls,

That is pretty tragic. It is awful to experience such rejection, such foreignness, from somebody so familiar. Luckily I think you never will have to see that again.

My BPDex would also make faces that I cant even really ascribe a label/emotion too. Some combination of sideways looks, wild wide fixed eyes, and furrowed brow. Staring off with eyes fixed but not seeing, head moving in all different directions, sometimes looking at me like i'm an alien.

Changingtimes,

Wow that's incredible that we have such similar experiences! You know, there was something about those times to me that reminded me too much of a movie. I wonder if these behaviors were in any way shaped by our exes having seen movie scenes like that? Even though my safety was never threatened, I still felt pretty scared after that. At that point you don't know what the person is capable of, especially if there is another person who you DONT know running amok in their head!

Yes I did have a hair-raising reaction to it. Several people I told about it had bad dreams about her and her situation. One friend certainly believed it to be a spiritual, rather than just psychological, issue. I don't really believe in spirits but there is something to be said for this suicide grandmother living on in one form or another, even if just as an idea. I also thought at the time that it would be a good idea to interact with this person and maybe even fight them. Certainly if the personality has its own consciousness, some kind of being-its-ownness, then maybe it can be influenced, affected, dealt with? It made sense to me at the time. Talk back to the voice, take back mental territory.

[croovis]

Another thing I forgot;

When I brought up J, the grandmother personality, to my BPDex, she gave me a very serious look at said "Nobody talks about her. Nobody talks about her!"

Well ok, what is that supposed to be, a threat? Or maybe she really does know whats going on and pretending to lose consciousness? There were such insane amounts of denial going on, it was making very upset. Every time I tried to bring up J, more denial, more we cant talk about her.

Nobody talks about her. Bah, what nonsense! What humbug! More cheesy horror movie crap.

[Ittookthislong]

interesting, im glad you posted this because ive been dying to confirm a strange moment with my BPDx boyfriend but wasn't sure it would be relevant/well received. The night that my ex told me he loved me, he tried to break up or stop seeing me(we weren't even together yet) and I told him ok but I couldn't be friends anymore because I had fallen for him. He backpeddled and told me how much he loved me yada yada yada, and it ended up being a nice revelation and we opened up to each other.

but then later during sex I, sometime in the middle of all of it I looked up at his face and I cant even describe fully the look. He had his head turned away and was clenching his eyes shut, he looked like he was in pain, he couldn't look at me. so weird. I asked after why he seemed upset because he should be happy. that night we both realized we loved someone that loved us back, that is what everyone wants so I just wanted to make sure he meant what he said. very confusing. he told me he loved me a lot but that night there was a real sadness about him. it was like he didn't want to be in love, but he had been caught, and there was nothing he could do about it. it was so bizarre ive never seen that before and not sure I can understand it till this day. next day he was back to normal comfortable self.

I don't think I knew what I was dealing with then, still not sure what that was. I have to catch myself because sometimes I wonder if he had been violated in his childhood or something, so certain things were emotionally painful. I start to feel bad for him and want to help, but then I gotta realize that this person has done nothing to hurt me no matter how much I try.

I imagine your exes strange behavior is maybe something similar. note it. if you ever see it again, know that you may be at the beginning of something that is over your head. that's what im gonna do.

[Learning_curve74]

Has anyone had seen their BPDex go through bizarre dissociative episodes?

Yes. But I don't want to give any details because I am paranoid she is reading this forum, and I'm afraid she might possibly recognize some of the situations. 

[Ironmanrises]

When I explained my horrific last day with her to my closest friends... .

They went ballistic.

I had broken down in tears as I recounted to them what had happened.

They told me, "do you realize what a serious and dangerous position you were in?"

All I could respond with was, " I didn't do anything but try and comfort her."

I didn't do anything wrong.

Learning,

I know what you mean by your ex possibly finding you on this forum.

I have feared the same.

Especially since I am no longer on Facebook or Instagram... .

But she would have to match and string together highly specific phrases to even know that it is me on here.

This forum is my only refuge.

[whatathing]

Hi,

There´s an interesting chapter on a book by Irvin Yalom, the famous american psychiatrist, "Love´s Executioner", which is about a pwBPD, female, who also dissociates. The hidden character appears after many sessions, and reveals a different persona that was repressed inside her. Yalom believed it were parts of her that needed to be reconciled and integrated into the rest of her Self, and without talking with her about these events, he slowly brought that repressed traits into therapy simply by guiding her to these feelings, and eventually, when the two opposed characters were "reconciled" and integrated in her Self, the episodes stopped, and she was a bit less like she was before, and a bit more like the hidden character. This is an interesting book, where he talks about real cases of his, but in a fictionized style, and altering the real facts and names, but maintaining the fidelity to the real stories.

My uBPDexgf didn´t have such radical manifestations like yours, but I could see how she had very accentuated "moods" that were almost like different characters, and that even included specific memories and emotions linked to each mood, which is a trait of Dissociative Disorder, so it was a bit like it, but in a smooth version. She also said strange things, like she never felt sexual pleasure, but when she was at it she clearly was having pleasure. And once, when we were at it, suddenly her eyes were like in Rapid Eye Movement in sleep, and her mouth was also trembling like her eyes, she "froze" in that facial movement for many seconds, and like it wasn´t her doing it voluntarily.

She also had lucid dreams and very vivid nightmares, a very strong oniric life that scared her much, and also she wouldn´t be able to wake up her body in the morning, but was awake inside, like she was trapped awake in her sleeplng body. She felt claustrofobic and agonized by that, it was very troubling to her, to the point that we arranged that I called her every morning to snap her out of it (we never lived together).

And... . a nasty aspect of it for me... . she said that most mornings she wouldn´t remember my face and my name until several minutes after she woke up. I think all these stuff are like different variations of something that is located in the same "spectrum" - fragmented Self, bodily based symptoms, etc...

[Scout99]

Hi croovis!

Thank You for sharing your experiences with us, since I know it takes a lot of courage to do so! it is hard, very hard to see a loved one come apart that way.

You ask some very relevant questions here that show some good thinking on your part!:

Does anyone else have any experience with this kind of craziness? Witness odd dissociative episodes? Did she have something worse than BPD? Indicator of abuse?

Even though none of us here are here in the capacity of clinicians, so if clinically correct answers are called for, then asking your T is probably better... . But from my experience and from what I have read, borderline often travels with other companions from the different spectras of mental illness that can be studied in the DSM.

Dissociation as described in the manual for borderline don't usually go to such extremes as displaying multiple personalities like when your ex gf more or less got overtaken by some other personalities. Such episodes can either be seen in pre psychotic or psychotic episodes and or when developing schizophrenia, the mental illness.

Dissociative states in borderline usually has to do with for example rewriting history to better protect against pain or fear in the borderline personality. So when episodes like these are present and also recurring the way you describe it, then there is usually something more present than just the borderline disorder.

Episodes like the one ironmanfalls describes fall more into the category of dissociative behavior within the realm of the borderline disorder, of simply blocking out painful emotions and internalizing a situation that can make people being close feel very shut out and pushed away... . But that is not the same as the things you are describing... .

So your question in regards to whether something worse being present, feels to me very relevant! Usually when multiple personalities take over a person in an episode like this, there is often at least reason to suspect some form of serious trauma or abuse in the past. So serious that the person has not been able to cope with it and has blocked it off completely, which would explain why your ex gf would claim never to have been abused... . That is probably what she sees as the truth. But the body and the mind knows, and splitting personalities is a way to cope with that excruciating pain, when it tries to resurface... .

The reason it may occur during or after sex is, the fact that sex is something very intimate and and act where we sort of let ourselves go and loose control a bit... . Then these things get a chance to resurface... .

The self destructive behavior is another indicator of abuse or trauma, but that behavior is more consistent also with her BPD diagnose.

I am glad for you that you are no longer part of this relationship, because I can only imagine how hard seeing your loved one act out like this must have felt to you. And as devastating as it is, there is still nothing you as a partner can do for your loved one at that time... . We cannot love them out of their disorder... . And we most certainly cannot love them out of such serious mental illnesses that a suspected schizophrenia or split personalities or psychosis are examples of... .

Best Wishes to you! And Thanks again for sharing this, since as we all can see - you are not alone in this experience! And we all learn and heal from each others stories!  

Scout99