Passive-aggressive damage is so hard to explain to outsiders - and it hurts

[Bonus mom]

I've been struggling over the last year or so with my 17 year old stepdaughter's diagnosed BPD and the effect it has had on our family.  Of course, we always figured there was something a little bit off about her. All the usual things that you'll find as you're going through researching BPD - Unusual separation anxiety issues, lying, irrational moodiness, cutting, vast personality changes depending on who she was with... .All of the clues were there, we just never put everything together.  It's funny how stupid you can feel, when you start to look back and see how everything was so clearly pointing to BPD... .And how stupid you can feel when you realize all the manipulation, all the times that you allowed yourself to fall into all the patterns of the BPD - it's amazing to me!

The one thing that I really struggle with, especially in trying to share with family what has been going on, is that there's virtually no raging with this girl - she fits the description of the waif/hermit - and honestly the passive aggressiveness of the disorder is what really just drives me over the edge. People in our family look at us as though we are the crazy ones, they say we are overreacting, there's something wrong with us because she's just "normal."  We should be more understanding.  We should be more compassionate.  All she needs is more love.  Because they don't see it, they assume it couldn't possibly exist. And even if it did exist, they figure "all teens are moody, why should you be getting so upset about it?"

I think first and foremost I just need to hear from people who can validate the fact that having a passive aggressive in your household is just as destructive as having a rager. It is so horribly difficult to live with someone who, from one second to the next, is pleasant and then moody, is happy and then morose, will chat and then will give the silent treatment, will join in and then will run away... .We can witness all of these things happening in her within just one hour that we might spend together in the day.  And there are a lot of hours in a day! 

I feel such despair that family members, who we desperately need the support from, just think that we are being irrational.  They want to rescue her, and of course we try to tell them not to and they think us that much worse for having done so. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Bonus mom & 

Your situation with your stepdaughter sounds really stressful! And yes, there will be many parents on this site who will certainly commiserate with your story... .Does your daughter actually live with you? Or, does she go back and forth between you guys and her Mom? How long have you been her stepmother? Since you've made your way to the Supporting a Son or Daughter with BPD Board, make sure you check out What Can A Parent Do? and the Suggested Reading threads that are actually pinned to the top of this Board's beginning page. The information and advice at those links are invaluable!

It is true that when your child with BPD doesn't exhibit the raging, outwardly destructive behaviors that can be visible to the outside world, other family members and friends can't really see the stress and pain that the immediate family goes through. That can be really frustrating and difficult to deal with. Sometimes others just cannot understand what our lives are like with BPD children (even adult children), and that makes for a lonely road to travel... .We understand that, and can really commiserate   

Many of us have found that when we learn how our child with BPD's brain works, and then learn the communication tools in the links above, we can start communicating with our child in a way that stops pushing his/her buttons, and then our child starts reacting differently with us. And that does make things better... .You say that she has been diagnosed; is she also in Therapy? Have you heard of DBT? Here's a link that explains it: The basic principles behind Dialectical Behavioral Therapy .

I have to say, when my dBPDson36 learned the techniques of DBT, it really did change his whole way of dealing with life... .Check it out! Please check out the links I gave you, and read, read, read! And post more of your story, and ask your questions so we can help you... .We're here for you... .

[Bonus mom]

Thank you for the starting point, Rapt Reader.  So far, the stories of other family members on the site have already had me saying "Yes! That's us too!"  It really is a relief to know that you aren't alone.

My husband and I share our children between our marriages on a regular and consistent schedule.  His son and daughter, and my son, are with us at the same time - and we share custody 50/50.  SD is 17, SS is 14, and S13.  I have been stepmom for seven years now.

SD was diagnosed coming up on two years this January - I did arrange for her to have counselling last year when BPD was diagnosed, and she attended regularly, we would take her, she would bounce in and then bounce back out again, quite bubbly, and took advantage of the fact everything she said was private.  She always seemed to come out with the same "homework", and frankly I could tell that the therapist was not taking the BPD diagnosis very seriously. SD was simply just too happy when she was there to see her... .I regularly go through her bedroom and check the drawers - this after an admission of cutting/suicide threat (just casually when she isn't there, checking for blades etc.) and would find all the "homework" sheets folded just as they were when she left the therapist, completely blank, stuffed in a drawer.

Soon enough, she was booking appointments to see the counsellor and not telling us when they were. And then she was "forgetting" the appointments.  And then she was telling us she was returning the counsellor's calls, and she never did. And finally the counsellor basically fired her.

Even at this time, my husband and I did not fully comprehend the full depth of BPD. We were still in the stage of denial/I'm sure that we can fix this.

Now I'll give the shortest form of background I possibly can without ending up in a rant or pointing fingers: SD's mom is most certainly uBPD. SD was raised as black and SS raised as white by their mom.   Their mom has demonstrated Munchhausen by proxy - the list of "illnesses" the kids have had is too long for here. These are things that are fact, not "new wife" issues by the way  

In our particular situation, we have an SD who really splits frequently and who has virtually no sense of herself whatsoever.  She is indeed a chameleon, depending on who she is with. In fact we were always surprised before the diagnosis, at how she would completely change before our eyes depending on who we happened to be sitting with.  I was always quite proud of her, the fact that she would just suddenly come out of her shell and seem like such an adult when we were sitting down with our adult friends - We would say "I can't believe what a different person she is!"  Of course, we feel quite foolish about that all now.

The lying is what was the first indication that something was definitely more seriously wrong.  I'm fairly certain that no one in the immediate family ever had any idea of the number of lies that our SD told.  When I came into her life at age 10, everyone certainly felt that she was a sweet and beautiful child, quite loving and quite happy. Sure she was a little bit anxious, but that was about the extent of it.  But of course once you start to live with someone, the cracks become easier to see.  She lied about everything, things of absolutely no consequence would just be turned into lies. She traced artwork and then presented it as her own freehand drawings. Everyone oohed and awed over the artwork, and she loved it. So she would make more artwork. And then they would become so incredibly intricate and complicated, that there was absolutely no way that she could've been creating them freehand.  She would do all her art in private of course, so no one could see her create them.  As soon as I started to question it, the artwork stopped. 

Then she started posting poems that she claimed to have written on her Facebook page. Beautiful short pieces of work, one after another, posted on her page.  Again, so much attention from everyone who read them, commenting on how talented she was. Again, the number of the works accelerated (there were nearly 200 poems posted by a 13 year old girl in little more than a month.)  And again, as soon as I questioned the authenticity of the work, she stopped.

That's the general pattern of the deceit regarding her creation of self; It of course just goes on and on - every situation a little bit different, all of them with the same intensity, all ending in the same simple way - as soon as someone catches on, it just stops as if it never happened.  Just like the counselling!

It was only when I started to realize that she was starting to free-fall into BPD that I really began to do some research.   And then of course the 20/20 hindsight kicked in!  Boy, had we been making errors in the way we were handling the situation!

Even now I'm finding this difficult, because I know that in order for everyone on the site here to offer me some sound advice you need the background, but I also don't want to just want to rant about what we've been through.   Does it help to list the frustrations?  There's so much to it, I've over simplified our situation here I know. But really, how could I ever put into words the amount of hurt and frustration and deception... .How can you put into words the effects of moping and sulking, and how difficult it is to even be near someone who changes so drastically from moment to moment?  How can I explain what a relief it is when she isn't in the house, and how much happier the rest of the family is when she's not here?  We can joke that she's the fun-killer or the Debbie-downer, but it isn't a joke.  It ruins so many moments, so many hours of family life. And frankly, I fear for her, for her future, as I see what's in store if she won't get the therapy she needs. 

I'm sure I had a question in here somewhere, but for the life of me I can't find it now

[sunshineplease]

I think first and foremost I just need to hear from people who can validate the fact that having a passive aggressive in your household is just as destructive as having a rager.

Oh, yeah. I mean: YES! Yes, yes, and yes.

My UD18 can be so "together" and charming. Family and friends think we're just hard on her (never mind that she's been barely functional, on and off). Even therapists resist the BPD label, preferring Anxiety + Depression. It's taken nine months for our daughter's current therapist to conceded that DD is "on the continuum," because DD can seem so together, be so fun and funny. Never mind that she lies and splits and manipulates -- not saying this to judge her, only that what she says or does one moment is undercut by other actions/words the next. Lovely to others, hateful to us, then hateful to others and lovely to us... .all in the same breath. It's exhausting and crazy-making.

I try to take comfort in the fact that DD can exhibit great self-control. It will stand her in good stead as she tries to make it in the world. And I'm praying she'll take part in a true DBT program -- not just one of those "skill classes" that seem the flavor of the moment -- when she's ready.

I hope you find some help for your daughter, and yourself, through this challenging illness.

[Bonus mom]

Thank you, sunshineplease. 

Thanks for giving me a brief moment of "you're not crazy!"  I'm more grateful than I can express.

Hugs   

[vivekananda]

Hi Bonus mom 

It's good to see you here. Well your girl is different to how mine was/is... .but I do get what you are saying, very much. It must have been such a hurtful experience for you, not quite getting what was wrong, and then the lack of support from friends and family who seem to want to pretend it will all just go away. My girl is 32 now and still, only a couple of weeks ago  her aunt said 'oh well she'll probably grow out of it... .'

So, while the disorder may manifest itself differently, the effect upon us is the same.

No, you are not crazy or going crazy, there is no need for you to feel guilty - it is the mental illness that is the problem, not you.   

Bonus mom, have you come across the skills that we have found are so helpful to us? The practice of validation and boundary setting is a challenge and it does take some time to come to grips with I believe, but it is worth it. I highly recommend these skills to you... .

cheers,

Vivek    

[griz]

Hi bonusmom:  My Dd also does not rage at all.  Maybe twice that I can remember over the past 3 years, she is 18 now.  There is nothing I find more difficult than passive agressive behavior.  It doesn't matter, who it is from.  I work with someone who is very passive aggressive toward me and it can make me want to pull my hair out.

I don't know if I would consider our children's behavior passive-aggressive though.  I believe their behavior is more about them then it is about the ones they effect, which would be the true nature of passive-agression.  I also heard time after time from well meaning family who didn't see what was going on that this was just a phase that she will grow out of.  Many of the techinques I have learned here have helped me cope with her behaviors in the past and setting boundaries in my life as to how I would let them effect me has helped tremendously. 


Griz

[Bonus mom]

Hi Griz,

I get what you mean about the blanket passive-aggressive definition and our kids - I just find it so much easier to use that term when trying to explain the situation.

What are some things you have done to set boundaries? What successes have you had? I'm certainly having a difficult time finding ideas specific to my situation - for example, how do I set a boundary for extreme moodiness and splitting?  When a child outwardly rages, there is something tangible to set a boundary on (yelling, threats, physical abuse, etc.). But when it is an inward rage, how can that be defined? 

Sitting next to a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde who is one moment smiling and polite and then suddenly turns all anger inward, is snippy with anyone near and gives the silent treatment - over and over - what boundary can be set?  If I look at the motivation behind that behavior, what I often find is that she feels she's out-of-control, she feels like she's being put upon, or that she feels that she somehow being treated unfairly in a particular situation.  I understand the motivation - I just can't figure out for the life of me how to set a boundary in that type of situation. 

I'd love to hear other's examples and successes!

[griz]

Hi Bonusmom:  I never really experienced splitting with my DD but the as for the moodiness, I had to steal myself and detach from it.  If she was being snippy or moody I would try to find out if something was bothering her.  More often than not she would not open up so I would just cut myself off emoitonally from it. Here is an example I hope will help.

One day after picking DD up from class she was in a real nasty mood. Snapped at me for not being there the second she got out.  Got in the car and decided to let me know just how much she hated the music I was playing and answering me with one word or snotty answers.  I drove quietly for a while and then after giving her some time, I asked her how her day was.  She went on to tell me (well more like yelling) about how her math professor is an idiot and he shows up late all the time and on and on.  I let her get it out and then I just said, that must be so hard to deal with.  I hate when people are inconsiderate like that in my office, it can be so annoying.    I validated her feelings and then asked her what she could do.  Of course her answer was, "Nothing, what am I suppose to do, he's the professor"  again I validated with I guess you are right there is not much you can do to change him, I guess you might have to change how you react to it.  I know it makes you angry.  I get annoyed when my boss comes in late and then needs 100 things done yesterday, I want to strangle him.  I just do my best to ignore it and do the best I can.  I remember then making a joke with her saying that sometimes I visualize in my head just giving him a good wack in the head.  She actually laughed and it changed the whole dynamic.

One of the things that I have learned best with my DD and actually with alot of people is taking the wind out of their sails.  Find something in their anger to agree with first.  Even the smallest thing.  That lets them feel like you are on their side and then take it from there.  As far as a boundary, if she mouthiness got out of hand for me I would just say, this conversation is going nowhere.  Lets talk when you are less angry.

Griz

[heronbird]

Is it like acting in and acting out BPD do you think.

My dd does not seem to be able to get her anger out, she just cries with the frustration, always been like that, wont open up, just wont talk about it.

She threw her phone across the room yesterday, I was kind of pleased because she is so angry, better out than in.

[vivekananda]

Hi Bonus mom,

I think Griz explained it well. Our techniques go hand in hand, as we practice then they bring us to a position of mindfulness. Our techniques are not about getting our children to change so much as they about us learning how to respond to them in a mindful way.

When I look at boundaries I go back to what is my value that is driving me. So in a situation where dd is snipey and prickly and rude towards me, I go back to my value of respect. If her behaviour is disrespectful of me, then I would ask to her speak more kindly towards me because it is hurtful for me. That if she didn't then I would have to stop the conversation... .when my own dd was in early teens, she was often like that. We lived in the country and this happened a lot in the car. I do recall stopping the car and asking her to leave more than once, telling her she could walk the rest or behave and I'd continue to drive her. The reason for the boundary was to 'protect me' if you get the meaning and to do that meant I could no longer tolerate her nastiness. Boundaries aren't like rules so much, they are techniques we apply to protect ourselves, so they must be based on our values. We should communicate them beforehand so they don't come out of the blue and consequences need to be explained. Also, consequences aren't to be seen as punishments, that's why they need to be relevant to the boundary that's crossed.

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

cheers,

Vivek    

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Bonus mom]

Thank you, all... .Your examples are helpful and make things more clear for me. Boundaries = my values = protecting myself.  I am entitled to hold my values and not feel guilty for having them.

I particularly like the explanation about respect.  I couldn't quite put my finger on which value was being eroded when my SD was rude or ignoring us.  But it is as simple as respect.  When I feel disrespected, it is hurtful.  Therefore, if she continues to be rude, I can tell her I won't continue the conversation.  If she continues to ignore us, then I can tell her that we will be going about our business whether she participates or not.  Have I got it?

[vivekananda]

Hi!

It seems you are on the right track. Boundaries I think can be deceptive though. To properly implement boundary practice I think means we have to change the way we think, we have to 'rewire' our brain, so while it is as simple as you put it, I believe there is also a lot more to it. It reminds me of the iceberg analogy you know... .one third on the surface, visible, two thirds below hidden. If we don't work on developing a solid understanding of what it means, we can very easily slip into unhelpful habits. Hence the emphasis on understanding what our values are.

So, I do recommend a bit of 'study'. The link I gave you was helpful for me, so was the chapter in Valerie Porr's book "Overcoming BPD". Then there is the book which others say is excellent: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend.

How it has seemed to me is that boundaries and the partner technique: validation, have layers of understanding. When we work on developing our understanding of them, they can become practices in mindful relationships. These are skills that are essential I understand to help us with our children with BPD. I think the key is to be open to learning more and developing ourselves so that we can embrace the changes we need to make within ourselves.

I hope that makes some sense Bonus, I am conscious that I am using words like 'need to' and 'have to' which is rather pushy, I hope you understand I am only offering my advice.

Values are a minefield. What makes something a value? I think that's a good idea for a new thread!

cheers,

Vivek    

[Verbena]

My dd28 has always raged from a very early age, but I'm sure the passive-aggressive thing is hard to take also.  I, too, struggle with how my daughter can be so charming and happy and outgoing with some people yet so nasty and horrible around others.  It's all a facade and she takes full advantage of Facebook to keep that facade going.  I read her posts and comments and wonder just how many people really know the truth.  Plenty of people have seen her in action, but apparently plenty haven't. 

I also understand about the lies.  I used to call my dd out on that sometimes, but not anymore.  She will never admit that she lies.  Ever.  She does like to accuse other people of lying, though.

You have my sympathy with your step-daughter.  She is lucky you care about her. 

[js friend]

Hi Bonus  mom,

There has been many, many times when dd18 has been passive-aggressive in her behaviour particularly towards me.

The sulky moods,  I have learnt to deal with  if she doesnt want to talk about it, but ... .destroying my stuff or being rude is another thing.

When she lived at home at home I would direct her behaviour back to the house rules.It mentions respect of each others stuff and speaking respectfully to each other.It would re-enforce the behaviours that was expected of her at home.No need to argue with her just a gentle reminder. Boundries and respect are really important if you feel you are being abused.

And as dd only shows her rage to those closet to her many of the outside world inc family have never seen dd rage so were really disablievibng that she could be capable of such things.I have only seen dd's mini rages,heard the odd stifled cries, and hear the occasion swear word and see her bedroom trashed after the fact. Even then she would often leave quickly,or say her bedroom was trashed because she was looking for something. On a few occasions I  would come home to find my stuff destroyed  ( sometimes she would admit to), yet b/f has witnessed all out rages and more passive -aggressive behaviour than I have... .The kicking and screaming sort that I bet he never thought dd was capable of where dd has lost it completly.

[lbjnltx]

Hello Bonusmom  


One of the most basic things we can do to help our kids, selves, family environment is not taking things personally... .if my dd16 is in a "mood"... .it is her mood... .if she is passive-aggressive... .it is her way of expressing herself... .it isn't about me.  If she violates my boundaries by being disrespectful to me then I take action to protect myself.  It is up to me how I allow her choices to affect me. 

Example:  dd16 asks me to fix her breakfast (sometimes I do... .sometimes I don't) and I tell her "not this time, I am trying to get Dad to eat something and will be tied up for a while".  She is disappointed and becomes passive aggressive when I am using the microwave and she wants to use it.  I ignore her comments and go about  my business.  Once more... .she makes a nasty comment that is disrespectful to me.  I tell her "I refuse to take your attitude and words personally.  I also do not want to put myself out for you when you are being so unpleasant to be around."  Then I walked away.  She had asked me to go and pick up her boyfriend to come to see her Dad who was home for the weekend... .A bit of time had passed and she calmed herself down and we carried on with a pleasant weekend... .no crisis, no boundary violations, no personalizing, self soothing techniques used... .win win for everyone.

I hope this bit of information helps you begin to put the pieces of the puzzle together in a way that will benefit you and your family.

lbjnltx

[Bonus mom]

Thank you, ladies! (I think everyone who has commented is female.  )

All of your advice and examples have been very helpful. It is so much easier for me to wrap my head around what is meant by boundaries vs rules and consequences vs punishment thanks to your input.

I am grateful