Does it ever work if you try again?

[Emelie Emelie]

Hello LilyBear - After our first breakup (which was awful) I was in so much pain and I felt I just had to try again.  I hadn't discovered this board yet but my few friends who knew what had gone on thought I was nuts.  I told them this was something I just had to do and asked them not to judge me.  It didn't work out for us the second time around.  And as difficult as it is not to be with him I wouldn't go back for round three.  However it's your decision to make.  I do want to share with you something my T (who I started seeing after this second break up) said that really resonated with me.  He said you need to understand that you're the problem.  You're the one triggering all these feelings and subsequent reactions.  This disorder manifests in relationships. 

I wish you all the best whatever you decide to do.  And whatever your decision we're here for you.

[Vexx]

With BPD, once you go black, there's no going back.

Sure, there may be good times in between, but a pwBPD will never forget the things that made them split you black.

[Ironmanrises]

With BPD, once you go black, there's no going back.

Sure, there may be good times in between, but a pwBPD will never forget the things that made them split you black.

In bold.

The pwBPD does forget... .

In a sense.

It is why they return to you.

You are painted white.

They have forgotten... .

Why they hated you.

(Feelings = Facts... .Irrespective of the concurrently occurring reality... .)

Now they can only remember... .

You in the white sense... .

In the all good view... .

Until... .

The inevitable... .

Happens again... .

Which is... .

The day of trigger... .

And the start of Devaluation... .

Where they begin to view you as bad... .

Until you are discarded... .

And viewed as... .

All bad.

Until... .

Time passes again... .

And their dysregulation... .

Returns to a baseline normal... .

And they start to... .

Remember you as... .

All good.

How many cycles of that do you wish... .

To undergo... .?

I went through 2 rounds... .

Of that.

A third round... .

Would kill me.

I want to live.

No further rounds.

She hurt me enough.

I allowed myself to be hurt enough.

[Conundrum]

In this thread, I did not see a definition for a "working relationship" involving a person diagnosed  with a cluster B  personality disorder such as BPD.  Inability to regulate emotions, lack of impulse control, absence of object constancy and a history of unstable relatioships, should equate to what form of relationship exactly? The one we desire, or the one that is?  Where does the assumption come from that these extraordinarily maladapted people with their intense relational quirks, will like performing seals, somehow get it, and be all that we want them to be?  They are uniquely different, which becomes self-evident to even the most obtuse over time. Let them be. Love them, or leave them, or love them in limited doses, but stop yearning for an ideal that they are incapable of living up to. They are alien, and forever will be. All things change.

[fromheeltoheal]

In this thread, I did not see a definition for a "working relationship" involving a person diagnosed  with a cluster B  personality disorder such as BPD.  Inability to regulate emotions, lack of impulse control, absence of object constancy and a history of unstable relatioships, should equate to what form of relationship exactly? The one we desire, or the one that is?  Where does the assumption come from that these extraordinarily maladapted people with their intense relational quirks, will like performing seals, somehow get it, and be all that we want them to be?  They are uniquely different, which becomes self-evident to even the most obtuse over time. Let them be. Love them, or leave them, or love them in limited doses, but stop yearning for an ideal that they are incapable of living up to. They are alien, and forever will be. All things change.

The challenge being that a borderline, compelled to attach, is expert at presenting themselves as the one we desire, on the way to becoming the one who is.  In the harshest sense they present a lie tailored to their current attachment subject, who usually knows nothing about cluster B disorders, and the fallout can be profound.  If a borderline presented with "BPD" tatooed on their forehead and an instruction manual, we may choose to go to crazyland voluntarily and fully aware, a very different scenario.

[Conundrum]

FHTH, I empathize with that scenario. To be blind-sided. Yet, even under those circumstances, it is too black and white to state that one never glimpsed the being beneath the mask. In a month, a half-of-one-year, maybe so. Anything longer if not a LDR, I think not. We are for the most part empathetic and perceptive souls. We know what we saw, we desired it and believed we could rescue the being beneath the mask. They are alien, and the folly to tame is on us. They captivated us and we desired to capture their essence in a box, wrap it in eternity, sealed with a kiss, and call it our own. Folly. They are the wind, ever changing direction, and all too often the swirling storm. All things change.

[fromheeltoheal]

FHTH, I empathize with that scenario. To be blind-sided. Yet, even under those circumstances, it is too black and white to state that one never glimpsed the being beneath the mask. In a month, a half-of-one-year, maybe so. Anything longer if not a LDR, I think not. We are for the most part empathetic and perceptive souls. We know what we saw, we desired it and believed we could rescue the being beneath the mask. They are alien, and the folly to tame is on us. They captivated us and we desired to capture their essence in a box, wrap it in eternity, sealed with a kiss, and call it our own. Folly. They are the wind, ever changing direction, and all too often the swirling storm. All things change.

Yes, to rescue, and to be rescued in return, but from what?  From loneliness, from lack of love, from solo preferring partnership, and finally finding an enthusiastic playmate who hung on our every word, a dream come true.  Until the dream turns to a nightmare.  Sure, an existential stance is plausible, if we can detach while immersed, develop a fascination for that which is other, tolerate infidelity as part of the fun, take sustenance from the vibrancy yet guard against the crazy.  Mundane, no.  Boring, no.  Supportive, no.  Reliable, no.  Yes, these things are possible, but what the fck for?

[Ironmanrises]

In this thread, I did not see a definition for a "working relationship" involving a person diagnosed  with a cluster B  personality disorder such as BPD.  Inability to regulate emotions, lack of impulse control, absence of object constancy and a history of unstable relatioships, should equate to what form of relationship exactly? The one we desire, or the one that is?  Where does the assumption come from that these extraordinarily maladapted people with their intense relational quirks, will like performing seals, somehow get it, and be all that we want them to be?  They are uniquely different, which becomes self-evident to even the most obtuse over time. Let them be. Love them, or leave them, or love them in limited doses, but stop yearning for an ideal that they are incapable of living up to. They are alien, and forever will be. All things change.

In bold.

I let mine be... .

After she left me... .

In round 1.

I was trying to heal.

Move on with my life.

As I was healing... .

And... .

Letting her be... .

That is when she came back... .

Like a force of nature... .

A hurricane... .

Back into my garden... .

Only to... .

Uproot... .

Everything... .

I tried... .

So hard... .

To replant... .

And nourish... .

And sustain... .

For her... .

To discard me... .

Yet again... .

With the parting words... .

Let me be.

I get what you are trying to say.

I do.

[DragoN]

It is getting the balance right between recognizing and accepting that much of his behavior is due to his illness and being able to help him understand that just because he is ill, doesn't give him the right to hurt me, that he does need to take responsibility for his actions.

IF and that is a big if, he accepts responsibility for his actions, and goes into therapy. It will get worse before it gets better.And IF you work on yourself and boundaries and validation, it will get worse before it gets better. And eventually, you will find that you have mostly been alone in the relationship.

It's a very difficult decision you make, no matter which way you choose.

[Conundrum]

Ironman, I truly feel the depth of your hurt. I cannot alleviate it, while at the same time I do respect your calculated defense perimeter. I learned some time ago, that even the worst relational transgressions are never a reflection upon the party who maintains their integrity.  The transgressor always transgresses against their own being. To violate well accepted values is an act of submission. To say, I am lesser, not more. That my inability to control desire will subsume my integrity given the chance. What we deplore, is that their needs are so vastly different from ours. That is the illness, and I believe it makes them less culpable than the sane. People come and people go, and sometimes, they go and go and return and return--the things that will not be--as imagined--but sometimes as is--in one life--this chance, and no other.

FHTH, "what the fck for"? Why do I eat ice-cream if it makes me fat and causes cavities?  But in moderation and with proper brushing it tastes so good and is worth it. I know a trite answer but it's late and I don't feel like elaborating on my beliefs about possessory interests in these relationships.

[Learning_curve74]

We are for the most part empathetic and perceptive souls. We know what we saw, we desired it and believed we could rescue the being beneath the mask. They are alien, and the folly to tame is on us. They captivated us and we desired to capture their essence in a box, wrap it in eternity, sealed with a kiss, and call it our own. Folly. They are the wind, ever changing direction, and all too often the swirling storm. All things change.

No offense Conundrum, but I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. While not all pwBPD are the same, there are many who wish the same as what you characterize the non BPD partner wanting, to keep us boxed up eternally as a source of soothing, to never be alone but perhaps never be truly together either. There is a flaw in both parties' thinking.

And I believe from the available writings, as well as my own experience with my pwBPD, that many pwBPD do not desire to always feel like a victim of the winds of life but they feel no ability to alter or author the narrative of their own life. They may not want to be weird and alien but cannot grasp how to be any different.

If two people want to be like ships occasionally passing in the night, that is their business and fine if they both accept the reality. However, I don't believe the majority of partners,  both BPD and nonBPD, desire this scenario. Therefore even this most tenuous "relationship" is subject to possible "failure". On the other hand, the less you have invested, the less you care about losing that investment... .

[Iwalk-Heruns]

No!

[Clearmind]

I agree learning_curve! Borderlines are hard wired and it stands to reason that if childhood trauma between the ages of 3-13 is a major cause of BPD in adult life then they cannot operate on any other level.

Now that we are aware our partners are likely to be BPD - and that the relationship dynamic was not helpful - why did we stay? That is the golden question! We got something from this too and we all brought our own issues and relationship skills, or lack there of to the union.