A hypothetical question.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I was watching the movie The Dark Knight Rises(Batman)... .

And there was this one part where Bruce Waynes butler tells him... .

"Remember when you left Gotham? Before all this, before Batman?

You were gone seven years. Seven years I waited, hoping that you wouldn't come back.

Every year, I took a holiday. I went to Florence, there's this cafe, on the banks of the Arno. Every fine evening, I'd sit there and order a Fernet Branca.

I had this fantasy, that I would look across the tables and I'd see you there, with a wife and maybe a couple of kids.

You wouldn't say anything to me, nor me to you.

But we'd both know that you'd made it, that you were happy.

I never wanted you to come back to Gotham.

I always knew there was nothing here for you, except pain and tragedy.

And I wanted something more for you than that. I still do."... .

That is what sparked that question.

That is what i would say to my older self.

There is nothing here for you... .except pain and tragedy.

... .

And i wanted something more for you than that.

Powerful lines.

I know it isnt healthy to think of what if and what not.

[Ironmanrises]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I was watching the movie The Dark Knight Rises(Batman)... .

And there was this one part where Bruce Waynes butler tells him... .

"Remember when you left Gotham? Before all this, before Batman?

You were gone seven years. Seven years I waited, hoping that you wouldn't come back.

Every year, I took a holiday. I went to Florence, there's this cafe, on the banks of the Arno. Every fine evening, I'd sit there and order a Fernet Branca.

I had this fantasy, that I would look across the tables and I'd see you there, with a wife and maybe a couple of kids.

You wouldn't say anything to me, nor me to you.

But we'd both know that you'd made it, that you were happy.

I never wanted you to come back to Gotham.

I always knew there was nothing here for you, except pain and tragedy.

And I wanted something more for you than that. I still do."... .

That is what sparked that question.

That is what i would say to my older self.

There is nothing here for you... .except pain and tragedy.

... .

And i wanted something more for you than that.

Powerful lines.

I know it isnt healthy to think of what if and what not.

[papawapa]

Trust your gut instinct. Fairly early on I tried to end it. She called me later that night crying and sobbing. I should have stood firm and ended it before the bad stuff started.

[Ironmanrises]

Papawapa,

Redefining my parameters on trusting that gut instinct.

[charred]

RUN FOREST RUN!

[Ironmanrises]

RUN FOREST RUN!

[Octoberfest]

It's funny... .when I first started dating my BPDex I broke things off with her every 4 days or so and then came back a day or two later.  This happened literally 15+ times.  And more often than not, I had no reason to do it, I just got wigged out for one reason or another.  I had never dated before her... .it was new to me, and you know how dynamic BPD relationships can be.  They move quickly. I chalked it up to that and the fact I wasn't used to letting people in... .in reality? It's possible my subconscious had something of a read on her that my conscious didn't and it was trying to keep me away.

If i were to go back and tell myself, at the point in my life, first meeting her, that this is what would happen I would laugh and tell myself to get lost. I never would have guessed my best friend ever would go and get with her. I never dreamed another very close friend would sleep with her.  I never dreamed she would cheat on me start to finish for 9 months and date 3 guys at once. I don't think I could have saved myself from her... .I wanted to be loved for the first time badly.

[Ironmanrises]

It's funny... .when I first started dating my BPDex I broke things off with her every 4 days or so and then came back a day or two later.  This happened literally 15+ times.  And more often than not, I had no reason to do it, I just got wigged out for one reason or another.  I had never dated before her... .it was new to me, and you know how dynamic BPD relationships can be.  They move quickly. I chalked it up to that and the fact I wasn't used to letting people in... .in reality? It's possible my subconscious had something of a read on her that my conscious didn't and it was trying to keep me away.

If i were to go back and tell myself, at the point in my life, first meeting her, that this is what would happen I would laugh and tell myself to get lost. I never would have guessed my best friend ever would go and get with her. I never dreamed another very close friend would sleep with her.  I never dreamed she would cheat on me start to finish for 9 months and date 3 guys at once. I don't think I could have saved myself from her... .I wanted to be loved for the first time badly.

In bold.

I am so sorry.

I recoiled reading that.

So awful.

[Learning_curve74]

If I were to go back and talk to myself, all I would say is to be true to myself, don't forget who I am and who I am striving to be. That's it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

Maybe I feel lucky since it was only 8 months for me, but it was a very important experience. It made me see who I am even more clearly as well as pointing out the areas in which I want to grow. I also have a much better idea of the kind of people I will let be close to me, as well as remembering that I can be accepting yet still enforce important boundaries for my own sake.

Life is too short to spend it with people who are miserable or make me miserable. I am happy to be in my own company now. 

[Ironmanrises]

If I were to go back and talk to myself, all I would say is to be true to myself, don't forget who I am and who I am striving to be. That's it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

Maybe I feel lucky since it was only 8 months for me, but it was a very important experience. It made me see who I am even more clearly as well as pointing out the areas in which I want to grow. I also have a much better idea of the kind of people I will let be close to me, as well as remembering that I can be accepting yet still enforce important boundaries for my own sake.

Life is too short to spend it with people who are miserable or make me miserable. I am happy to be in my own company now. 

In bold... .

Interesting response.

[downandin]

RUN FOREST RUN!

I needed a laugh this morning, in the most desperate way.  Thanks!

How about this famous movie line:  "You have no concept of the power of the dark side... ."

[turtle]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I would have the same conversation with myself that I had then.  Way back then, I distinctly remember thinking "turtle -- something's wrong with him. Best to leave that alone."

Only NOW, I would be much more forceful with myself about it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

I pay VERY close attention to my internal warning system now.

turtle

[downandin]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I would have the same conversation with myself that I had then.  Way back then, I distinctly remember thinking "turtle -- something's wrong with him. Best to leave that alone."

Only NOW, I would be much more forceful with myself about it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

I pay VERY close attention to my internal warning system now.

turtle

Exact same type 'warnings' here, and exact same outcome.  I knew something wasn't right, but I continued on.  If I went back, I could not tell myself from back then anything that I would have listened to.

[Lucky Jim]

Same here, turtle and downandin, I ignored obvious red flags and continued forward with something that I knew wasn't right for me.  Yet I was naive, too, and had no conception of BPD, which was never addressed in Psych 101!  Lucky Jim

[EatingOranges]

My favorite quote to describe the many "not-so-great-for-me-in retrospect" things/people I have swept right into my life... .

"That was a mistake I was going to make."   

-EO

[havana]

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

I haven't been here much lately. I probably wouldn't have done anything different. I was a different person back then. I was married for 41 & 1/2 years to a women with BPD. She died 04/20/2012. I have 2 wonderful daughters, 2 grandkids with one on the way. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

[Emelie Emelie]

When he asked me out I would have said "No thanks."  I doubt if I would even remember what he looked like by now.     I guess I don't really mean that.  Or maybe I do.  I don't know.    If I could go back and tell myself anything it would be "don't take his $hit".  The relationship would have been a lot better.  Shorter... .but better.

[Bulgakov]

I would have told myself about the connections I would eventually lose, or about the friends that do stick around but take on more avoidant roles as no one wants to touch the subject of your partner. The several years of not doing what is important to you but only that of your partners bidding, and even then still being called selfish for clinging to any personal values or goals.

I have had some experiences where I actually felt like I was remaining intimate with a child, like my daughter or something, because part way through it became clear I had to treat her as a child. If that wouldn't get me to think long and hard, I'm not sure what would.

[anystar]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I would have the same conversation with myself that I had then.  Way back then, I distinctly remember thinking "turtle -- something's wrong with him. Best to leave that alone."

Only NOW, I would be much more forceful with myself about it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

I pay VERY close attention to my internal warning system now.

turtle

YEP. same, same, same. it's funny how in school and at home no one really teaches you the value of the "gut instinct" because your stomach can't actually SPEAK or prove anything to anyone, it's just a feeling. but it's true that your body knows when something is really wrong, I think. it was my gut instinct that propelled me to leave. it just became un-ignorable.

[Learning_curve74]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I would have the same conversation with myself that I had then.  Way back then, I distinctly remember thinking "turtle -- something's wrong with him. Best to leave that alone."

Only NOW, I would be much more forceful with myself about it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

YEP. same, same, same. it's funny how in school and at home no one really teaches you the value of the "gut instinct" because your stomach can't actually SPEAK or prove anything to anyone, it's just a feeling. but it's true that your body knows when something is really wrong, I think. it was my gut instinct that propelled me to leave. it just became un-ignorable.

First of all: Holy nested quotes, Batman! 

Yah, I think that is part of why some of us have/had so much trouble with leaving. It makes us feel stupid and/or ashamed to feel like we spent all this time and effort on something that was unhealthy for us. It's like having to tell ourselves, "How could I have been so stupid?" which is not something most people like to do very often!

Most people believe what they want to believe. And they often won't change their mind until they find out for themselves through experience. That's part of why I don't think things could've gone down any differently.

[SeekerofTruth]

To quote a quote that's already been and continues to be requoted:

  And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

I pay VERY close attention to my internal warning system now.

Also true for me:

  Yah, I think that is part of why some of us have/had so much trouble with leaving. It makes us feel stupid and/or ashamed to feel like we spent all this time and effort on something that was unhealthy for us. It's like having to tell ourselves, "How could I have been so stupid?" which is not something most people like to do very often!

Most people believe what they want to believe. And they often won't change their mind until they find out for themselves through experience. That's part of why I don't think things could've gone down any differently.

The conversation I would have is something along the lines of:

"

You have a core vulnerability and nievaty that in every conceivable way leaves you predisposed to experiencing a crushing defeat across almost every single life area.  I am giving you a warning.

i'm sorry to report: you will be deceived, tricked, and fooled.  The strengths that you have used most of your life to make things better will become your undoing.  Your first and second gut instinct to call it off, because someting is off, must be headed or you will fall into an abyss.  If you fail to listen to yourself the first or second time, you will have 100, 1,000, 10,000 more gut instincts that will erode your confidence, your sense of self, and your sense of essence and integrity because you will have crossed the threshold into an exponentially chaotic form of existence known as What the heck.  You need to learn to protect yourself and develop appropriate adult boundaries of which you have none... .because of whatever reason. 

There is an inner self-sabateour inside of you, unbeknownst to you crying for attention.  You will neglect this, for whatever reason, and will instead devote your attention and care to your "significant other" to makes things better.

But this is a trap.  You will develop something called co-dependency, whereas in the past you did your best to grow and heal and to take responsibility for your own pain and self-care, this devotional instinct WILL BE PROFOUNDED ALTERED, taken from you, and displaced onto your significant other as you enter into an encompassing FOG from which your mind and heart will become severed as well as your own sense of basic human goodness.  You will not understand what has happend to you because your penis will lead you astray, without you realizing it... .because good sex does not = true love.  When they say "they love you so much... ."  you will learn that they hate you so much more and not understand what is happening; until you've abandoned any sense of control or inner power. You will be called names in the worst possilbe fashion, get spit upon, scratched, hit, and clawed. And it will be all your fault because of denial and projection. Your self-esteem will suffer because you will compromise caring for yourself.  Your financial goals and career aspirations will nearly be destroyed.  You will meet a person, who falls in love with you and tells the world they love so much and that you are BFF.  You will even believe they love you more than you love them. 

But this person's love is a venom which will be used against you from the subtlest to most blatant manners that bewilder, hurt, distract, stun, daze, and confuse you in order to bankrupt you and attempt to take away anything you have built.  It will become lost or stolen... .In otherwords, you are about to loose everything.  You will not recognize this until far, far, too late. You will get mindf... ked thru a series of denials and projections which will alter your reality and means of functioning and making sense of the world. 

You will get tricked because the person you met, who you take to bed and eventually marry is very high functioning, responsible, and adoring.

But this person carries with her a potentially fatal disease known as BPD.  You won't recognize this for whatever reasons, and the treatment literature pertaining to this particular subtype of BPD is vitually non-existent.   The BPD will be further exacerbated by NPD in which any capacity for empathy, conscience, and compassion  will be an act or a lie.  Any validation you seek will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.  You will waste much of your best time, energy, and focus in search for a needle in a haystack, while the rest of your life moves on leaving you behind as road kill if you are not careful. This is the intent, motivation, and aim of the person with whom you have chosen to mate, in spite of the 100s to be 1000s of gut instincts you will ignore and not heed.  The calming breath which you once shared as a portal of intimacy will become a trauma bond, that plays out like a surreal nightmare, stranger than fiction.  Your respiration rate and heart rate will begin to decouple as you loose who you are.  Your life trajectory will regress and be taken of course.  And you will become addicted to this form of self-abuse unbeknownst to you because of ur own denial and disbelief while you "try to make things better" and "do what is best" and assorted other life strategies and coping skills  As this relationship becomes an extension of yourself... .you will act against yourself, because every act she engages in, is against you and it won't make sense to you. 

The high road is gone.  The bridges have been burned. 

You will have married a High Functioning Black-Widow NPD/BPD.

If you make it out alive, you will know trauma and you will need to heal it in order to recover.  RECOVERY of your previous strengths which will become dislocated  and will need to be re-membered and honored.

ABOVE ALL THIS:  Drawing upon the wisdom of the ancients, the elders, and the lineage from which you were born I say to you:

"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe deserve your love and affection."

Godspeed 

[Ironmanrises]

Seeker,

Simply powerful.

[EatingOranges]

Seeker,

Powerful Indeed!

EO

[Turkish]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I like the Batman quote... .After two weeks of constant texts and we testing the waters... .after our first "date" which afterwards she said she couldn't "date" because she was still processing (in "love" with her idealized ex two years previous (who left her, used her sexually, then left her again... .great guy!). I should have said, "ok, then we can be friendly acquaintances, but not friends. But she said she wanted to be friends, and go do stuff to get to know me before jumping into anything. That one night when she did a reversal, and I'd had enough, I got a text asking if I wanted to meet her at a local theater to go see a movie. I was frustrated with this woman by that point, and pretty much done, but some stupid voice inside me said, "take a chance on love!" Freaking fool. I'd show up at that point and slap myself silly. Six years, two kids, and a woman who is still living in my house (whom I want out as quickly as possible, but I need to nail down the legal ramifications vis-a-vis the children), here I am. Living in the same home with a cheater. Who continued to lie to me even as I tried to patch things up "for the kids"... .something SHE said she was doing like her mother, suffering for her whole marriage for the kids, while her father was the abuser and cheater. No, honey, YOU are your father, and I am your mother. Useless to even point that out. She's completely delusional. And her friends support her, because even they know about the cheating (so she says she told them), they have NO idea of what's really going on.

So, I'd write it all down in a novella, and hand it to my past self, and say, "read this as if your life depends on it."

[fromheeltoheal]

Damn Seeker!  You nailed it.  Took me right back to hell, couldn't have said it better.

You gave me a flashback: I used to say "throw me a bone" and "how 'bout you be nice to me."  She had no idea what I was talking about.

[hopealways]

I would have said "repair your wounds from childhood, the love you never had, before you get into another relationship."

[Ironmanrises]

Turkish... .

Thank you.


I would also have shown... .

To my older self... .

This ipad mini... .

That she got me as a surprise gift... .

With the words... .

Engraved in the back of it... .

Just because... .Ironmanfalls... .

And said... .

She will get you this gift... .

Shortly after returning into your life... .

After leaving you the first time... .

And when your birthday... .

Comes around... .

Will get you absolutely nothing... .

Not even a card.

And this very gift... .

Will haunt you... .

Long after she departs... .

Again.

My sentimental side... .

To my old self... .

Would probably... .

Implode... .

And drown... .

In tears... .

At such a tale.

[DragoN]

If you could go back to the time right before you started dating your SO and have one conversation with your older self... .What would you say?

I would have the same conversation with myself that I had then.  Way back then, I distinctly remember thinking "turtle -- something's wrong with him. Best to leave that alone."

Only NOW, I would be much more forceful with myself about it.

And the fact of the matter is that it would not have changed anything because I did exactly what I thought was the best and right thing to do at the time.

And this is exactly what happened.  Even though I knew something was "off," it didn't change a thing. My radar that something was "off" about him didn't matter.  I didn't do what I thought was "best" or "right." I went right ahead... .knowing in my gut that it wasn't "best" or "right." I ignored my own internal warning system and forged ahead into a world that was horrific.  My naivety nearly cost me my life. 

YEP. same, same, same. it's funny how in school and at home no one really teaches you the value of the "gut instinct" because your stomach can't actually SPEAK or prove anything to anyone, it's just a feeling. but it's true that your body knows when something is really wrong, I think. it was my gut instinct that propelled me to leave. it just became un-ignorable.

First of all: Holy nested quotes, Batman! 

Yah, I think that is part of why some of us have/had so much trouble with leaving. It makes us feel stupid and/or ashamed to feel like we spent all this time and effort on something that was unhealthy for us. It's like having to tell ourselves, "How could I have been so stupid?" which is not something most people like to do very often!

Most people believe what they want to believe. And they often won't change their mind until they find out for themselves through experience. That's part of why I don't think things could've gone down any differently.

^^^^

Sums it up.

and

You have a core vulnerability and nievaty that in every conceivable way leaves you predisposed to experiencing a crushing defeat across almost every single life area.  I am giving you a warning.

Seeker your post nails it.  Naivety, that was lost. Simplicity. Don't know if it is a good or bad loss.

But this person carries with her a potentially fatal disease known as BPD.  You won't recognize this for whatever reasons, and the treatment literature pertaining to this particular subtype of BPD is vitually non-existent.   The BPD will be further exacerbated by NPD in which any capacity for empathy, conscience, and compassion  will be an act or a lie. Any validation you seek will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.  You will waste much of your best time, energy, and focus in search for a needle in a haystack, while the rest of your life moves on leaving you behind as road kill if you are not careful. This is the intent, motivation, and aim of the person with whom you have chosen to mate, in spite of the 100s to be 1000s of gut instincts you will ignore and not heed.  The calming breath which you once shared as a portal of intimacy will become a trauma bond, that plays out like a surreal nightmare, stranger than fiction.  Your respiration rate and heart rate will begin to decouple as you loose who you are.  Your life trajectory will regress and be taken of course.  And you will become addicted to this form of self-abuse unbeknownst to you because of ur own denial and disbelief while you "try to make things better" and "do what is best" and assorted other life strategies and coping skills  As this relationship becomes an extension of yourself... .you will act against yourself, because every act she engages in, is against you and it won't make sense to you.

Married the male version.

So, I'd write it all down in a novella, and hand it to my past self, and say, "read this as if your life depends on it."

That. The Warning.

There will not be a round three.