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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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happylogist
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« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2013, 10:06:44 AM »

When there was someone else, I did hear from him, just not as often.  He wanted to be able to triangulate. He pushed me back, but still touched base to make sure I still cared.  When I heard nothing at all for weeks on end, it meant he was in his cave, his life was not going well, and talking to me would make him "feel", which at those times would be hell on earth for him. If I made contact, I got two word answers and the brush off. Don't make him feel, it's too painful...

Exactly the same! Although it was often mixed with silent treatment, so I was not sure whether it is a punishment or caving. FB was helpful to identify the difference Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Century2012
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« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2013, 01:45:19 PM »

Ironman,

Thank you. Your points are spot on ... .
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« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2013, 02:55:41 PM »



I also wanted some answers from her as well because I was wondering about the exact same things as you.

So I called her and it was a mistake. She said things like "the relationship with you was the worst year of my life" and that she didn't enjoy the time with me at the end anymore and of course it was all my fault.

And yes, the last time I saw her before we broke up she said I love you many times.

It doesn't make sense to get an explanation from them. Once you are painted black, everything you ever did was wrong and he/she doesn't remember the good times. No matter what they said shortly before the break up.



Their actions are more important than their words.

Mine said it was not a relationship,I never felt anything,I never wanted to come close and we should move on because 'You got too emotional'.

Totally agree with the stuff in bold,doesn't make sense to reason with them because their disorder renders them incapable of rational adult behavior.
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« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2013, 03:09:07 PM »



Mine said it was not a relationship,I never felt anything,I never wanted to come close and we should move on because 'You got too emotional'.

Totally agree with the stuff in bold,doesn't make sense to reason with them because their disorder renders them incapable of rational adult behavior.[/quote]
She told me that I was "so intense" except she was the one with the constant texting, always wanting to sit on the phone for hours, pushing me to say "I love you" first with all this manipulation. I agree, I definitely am intense with my love; however, I am also very guarded and she played the game long enough that I let my guard down. Now I'm suffering for being me, but it's better than suffering being someone I'm not because that's who I'd become.
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saw_tooth
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« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2013, 03:12:58 PM »

Saw_tooth, yes, get too close and get burned. Of course, they spend a lot of words and energy drawing us close, but if we don't follow the directions, which are printed in invisible ink, we are rejected.

True this.

But if we consider closeness from their perspective,it burns them like acid falling on skin because they get triggered each time a 'semi-attachment' is formed.They hurt more often than us.



What I don't understand is why they are so mean when they decide they are done. I understand rejection and I understand falling out of love, but for whatever reason that feeling just makes a pwBPD irate instead of remorseful or empathetic. To them, it's our fault they developed feelings for us. 

3 things to understand for starters, peas

a)It never was love because there never was an emotional bond.Idealization feels like love to the non but it isn't.

b)They are disordered and a change of feelings from good(happy,loving) to bad(hateful,mean) is a characteristic of this disorder.Baffles us non's but has no rational explanation.

c)Remorse and empathy are emotions which stem from an emotionally mature persons core who feels sorrow deeply.To feel sorrow,you need to feel pain due to an attachment being severed.A BPD can't attach emotionally like a non and hence feels none of these emotions.

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saw_tooth
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« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2013, 03:29:08 PM »

She told me that I was "so intense" except she was the one with the constant texting, always wanting to sit on the phone for hours, pushing me to say "I love you" first with all this manipulation. I agree, I definitely am intense with my love; however, I am also very guarded and she played the game long enough that I let my guard down.

Totally understand how you feel D&O.

They idealize us and make us feel loved.If,before we are painted black,we do not reciprocate that love with equal intensity or succumb to all their desires, they play victim and say stuff like 'If you cared about me/loved me you would have done xyz thing for me' but cannot withstand true love being bestowed upon them because with it are concomitant positive emotions which make their shame based self feel insecure and trigger their abandonment fears.

So it is a no win situation for the non unless the BPD enters and sticks to therapy.

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blissful_camper
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« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2013, 04:10:17 PM »

I think they do think of us, even if they've moved on.  Moving on is just a way to avoid the pain/facing the consequences of their actions and the r/s ending.  It's classic avoidance behavior. Some will go in the other direction and bury themselves in work, or any activity really, where they can avoid their feelings.

I moved out of state when I ended the r/s, but a friend told me my ex was in pretty bad shape after I left.  Angry, anxious, weight loss.  He and I had contact after the r/s ended, and he expressed a desire to move here to be with me  - I said 'No'. 

I attempted to end the r/s on a positive note (we'd had a history/friendship prior to the r/s). The more I tried to create closure for us both, and end it on a positive note, the more abusive he became.  It was painfully obvious he was intentionally trying to hurt me in the end and with full awareness of what he was doing. 

Everyone is right.  They can't participate in anything that creates goodwill, particularly at the end of an r/s.  In my experience, I think part of this had to do with him not wanting to face that the r/s was actually over.  He probably also felt 'why should I be nice to you if you've left/abandoned me'?

Eventually, I let it go and it was painful. He has a history of not contacting his ex's so I know that he will not reach out to me.

All of this still hurts, but it's getting easier as time passes. 

One of the questions I've asked myself, is this: if he called, would I actually want to talk with him?  What would we talk about? 

I've imagined this (having a catching up pleasant conversation), and I know I'd end up shaking my head at the end of it.  The dialog at his end would be the same negative stuff that he enjoys discussing: how people have wronged him (playing victim), small town gossip, how he's targeting and making an innocent person's life miserable with the help of the local police department (vindictive, control, power), and then I'd probably get some line about how I'm a good person, and how he has issues, how he's trying to be a better person. 

So the answer is, no I wouldn't want to speak with him because he is a boring, disordered man - a bottomless pit of negativity, misery, chaos, drama, and immaturity.  He will forever be a child in an adult body. 

I no longer want to hear about what he's up to (the desire to know ended 2 months ago when my friend told me he wasn't doing well), I've blocked him on Facebook, and anyone associated with him.  My taking control of little things like that feels good.  He can find someone else to sting and project his mental illness onto. 
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« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2013, 04:17:33 PM »

I've imagined this (having a catching up pleasant conversation), and I know I'd end up shaking my head at the end of it.  The dialog at his end would be the same negative stuff that he enjoys discussing: how people have wronged him (playing victim), small town gossip, how he's targeting and making an innocent person's life miserable with the help of the local police department (vindictive, control, power), and then I'd probably get some line about how I'm a good person, and how he has issues, how he's trying to be a better person. 

So the answer is, no I wouldn't want to speak with him because he is a boring, disordered man - a bottomless pit of negativity, misery, chaos, drama, and immaturity.  He will forever be a child in an adult body. 

Oh how true the above-statements are.    I have been sad that I have not heard from my guy myself.  Then I read what I have in quotes above.   I don't have to hear from him.   It is the exact same conversation over and over.  And then ending it with "I am trying.  I am better than I used to be."  Yeah, but it always looks and sounds the same to me.   Thank you for this post.  It has been quite helpful. 
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2013, 07:43:52 PM »

I've imagined this (having a catching up pleasant conversation), and I know I'd end up shaking my head at the end of it.  The dialog at his end would be the same negative stuff that he enjoys discussing: how people have wronged him (playing victim), small town gossip, how he's targeting and making an innocent person's life miserable with the help of the local police department (vindictive, control, power), and then I'd probably get some line about how I'm a good person, and how he has issues, how he's trying to be a better person. 

So the answer is, no I wouldn't want to speak with him because he is a boring, disordered man - a bottomless pit of negativity, misery, chaos, drama, and immaturity.  He will forever be a child in an adult body. 

Oh how true the above-statements are.    I have been sad that I have not heard from my guy myself.  Then I read what I have in quotes above.   I don't have to hear from him.   It is the exact same conversation over and over.  And then ending it with "I am trying.  I am better than I used to be."  Yeah, but it always looks and sounds the same to me.   Thank you for this post.  It has been quite helpful. 

Oh good!  I'm glad it was helpful to you. 

One thing that I found most peculiar is that my ex could not create a dynamic (relating, conversation, shared experiences) that were any different than ones he had already experienced in previous relationships.  That's because he brought those patterns to the table in each relationship he had.

A pwBPD just needs a warm body to plug into their script. That script doesn't change.  It can't change for the pwBPD because if it does, it becomes something that is unpredictable and can't be controlled.  They are all about control.  They need us to behave in certain ways, and react in certain ways so that we play the role they want us to play in their script. 

My ex admitted to me that he had created the same sick, dysfunctional dynamic in every relationship he'd had.  He shared that with me numerous times but only when it was convenient for him to do so.  When he was raging, moody, shut down, or in a state of psychosis, he would deny it by feeding me the line 'you don't know what happened in those relationships', forgetting he'd admitted to me *numerous times* his unhealthy relationship patterns. 

While my ex was a pathologic liar, that's one thing that he didn't lie about.  His ex-wife was gracious enough to share her story with me, and our experiences were identical.  He's a creature of habit and the patterns don't change with new partners.  It's quite creepy. 
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« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2013, 08:14:17 PM »

Yes, blissful, as drv said, your post is helpful -- it is level-headed and clear.

When I remove the romance and heartbreak filter, the reality is my ex bores me too. I am reminding myself of this and it is helping my healing, not because it's mean or insulting, it's just true and it's something that started to bother me when we were a couple. We didn't have many stimulating conversations because I had more varied life experiences than him and I also had more intellectual curiosity.

Like your ex, mine was from a small town and he centered his life around that. His personal interests were limited to the same three or four musical groups and one sport that he was passionate about playing. That's all fine, but he didn't talk about much else.

As drv said, it's the exact same conversation over and over.

And although my ex did the breaking up, I believe he thinks of me but has moved on without contact to avoid the pain of facing his actions.
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« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2013, 08:23:06 PM »

This!

Excerpt
One thing that I found most peculiar is that my ex could not create a dynamic (relating, conversation, shared experiences) that were any different than ones he had already experienced in previous relationships. That's because he brought those patterns to the table in each relationship he had.

A pwBPD just needs a warm body to plug into their script. That script doesn't change.  It can't change for the pwBPD because if it does, it becomes something that is unpredictable and can't be controlled.  They are all about control.  They need us to behave in certain ways, and react in certain ways so that we play the role they want us to play in their script. 

bBissful, you are totally on it. I identified this in my ex early on, which actually drove me to want to fill that script even harder. I knew all he needed was a warm body and if I could just hold on, and he held on, then we'd last. I knew I would have to conform to his script. And I removed my own boundaries in vain to make it happen. That's the fundamental fear I had in the r/s with my ex: I knew he just needed a warm body and if it wasn't me, it would be someone else soon after. I don't know if he is seeing anyone, but I presume he is based on that very notion that he just needs someone to be there. All the better if she is conforming to his script.
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2013, 09:08:41 PM »

Yes, blissful, as drv said, your post is helpful -- it is level-headed and clear.

When I remove the romance and heartbreak filter, the reality is my ex bores me too. I am reminding myself of this and it is helping my healing, not because it's mean or insulting, it's just true and it's something that started to bother me when we were a couple. We didn't have many stimulating conversations because I had more varied life experiences than him and I also had more intellectual curiosity.

Like your ex, mine was from a small town and he centered his life around that. His personal interests were limited to the same three or four musical groups and one sport that he was passionate about playing. That's all fine, but he didn't talk about much else.

As drv said, it's the exact same conversation over and over.

And although my ex did the breaking up, I believe he thinks of me but has moved on without contact to avoid the pain of facing his actions.

Yes! 

Something that has helped me when I get a touch of missing him, is I visualize him watching the TV from his couch with that unhappy, angry look on his face (that got old!).  Or I 'hear' his verbiage, the same lines he used over and over like prerecorded messages without any creative use of language. Or I think back on the time that he took me away for a romantic weekend, and refused to hot tub with me, preferring instead... .you guessed it! to watch TV (he looked quite grumpy while doing so).  There are ways to counter the moments when we miss them (and I still do at times) but I'm getting better at pulling myself out of it by digging up memories that were true turn-offs. 
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« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2013, 09:29:45 PM »

Yes! 

Something that has helped me when I get a touch of missing him, is I visualize him watching the TV from his couch with that unhappy, angry look on his face (that got old!).  Or I 'hear' his verbiage, the same lines he used over and over like prerecorded messages without any creative use of language. Or I think back on the time that he took me away for a romantic weekend, and refused to hot tub with me, preferring instead... .you guessed it! to watch TV (he looked quite grumpy while doing so).  There are ways to counter the moments when we miss them (and I still do at times) but I'm getting better at pulling myself out of it by digging up memories that were true turn-offs. 

Heh. I recall moments of my ex's vacant stare, which sometimes alternated with a look of "duh." And like your ex wanting to watch TV during a couple's weekend, my ex didn't want to do or see much on a trip to a bigger city. He really had a problem getting out of his routine and comfort zone. Unfortunately, I tried like hell to stay in his comfort zone. I knew once I was there and he got the message, I was home free. But doing so meant compromising my own interests and ideas, assuming a big interest in his life, and downplaying my achievements and worldly experiences. 
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2013, 10:09:10 PM »

Yes! 

Something that has helped me when I get a touch of missing him, is I visualize him watching the TV from his couch with that unhappy, angry look on his face (that got old!).  Or I 'hear' his verbiage, the same lines he used over and over like prerecorded messages without any creative use of language. Or I think back on the time that he took me away for a romantic weekend, and refused to hot tub with me, preferring instead... .you guessed it! to watch TV (he looked quite grumpy while doing so).  There are ways to counter the moments when we miss them (and I still do at times) but I'm getting better at pulling myself out of it by digging up memories that were true turn-offs. 

Heh. I recall moments of my ex's vacant stare, which sometimes alternated with a look of "duh." And like your ex wanting to watch TV during a couple's weekend, my ex didn't want to do or see much on a trip to a bigger city. He really had a problem getting out of his routine and comfort zone. Unfortunately, I tried like hell to stay in his comfort zone. I knew once I was there and he got the message, I was home free. But doing so meant compromising my own interests and ideas, assuming a big interest in his life, and downplaying my achievements and worldly experiences. 

Oh dear, our experiences are pretty similar! 

In addition to other quirks, my ex was quite quirky about food.  Perhaps picky is a better choice of words.  When shopping each week, he came home with the same products.  He didn't like healthy, even in his choice of foods.  Lettuce was exotic to him.

I wonder if the problem they had in getting out of their comfort zone was due to there being no one except us to provide them with attention.  I wonder if it reminded them too much of how dependent they actually were on us. Just a thought. 

Yes, once I moved to 'his' town, my life was suddenly all about him.  He made sure of that.  Everything we did, in fact the entire 'relationship' was on his terms.  Like you, I learned to downplay my accomplishments and life experiences, so as not to 'rock the boat'. 

He was not supportive of my career - that was much too threatening to him as it required my having contact with the world-at-large -- outside of his small town.   
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« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2013, 09:08:29 AM »

Blissful and Peas I can totally relate.  Mine would say the same things over and over.  If he wasn't complaining about his ex, or his job, or the fact that he couldn't see his kids, he was talking hocky and comedy.  That's it.  Anything I liked it didn't matter.  We would go to the video store and he would say get what you want.   Then the next thing in his hands was a comedy.  Then he talked through the entire thing.   I hated watching TV with him.  What do you think that guy is gonna do?  Did you expect that to happen?   Is that funny?  You didn't think that was funny did you?.  Shoot, I never saw the movie cause he talked through the entire thing.  Ugh.  And God forbid I have a complaint about anything.  Not even relating to him.  That came back  to bite me in my buttocks.  Big time.  Never could I say anything.   I was a giant trigger for him.  I could say, looks like rain and I would be negative like his ex wife.   Geezo.  I still wonder why I even care that he's gone.  Self esteem thing for me.   I know it.  If
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« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 09:34:04 AM »

She said things like "the relationship with you was the worst year of my life" and that she didn't enjoy the time with me at the end anymore and of course it was all my fault.

I've heard that one: "this was the worst two years of my life, I can't believe I wasted my time with you".

The truth is she loved it while it was happening, but re-wrote the whole thing in her head somehow.  The "normal" way to do it would be to say "look, this isn't going to work out, it's been fun but we should break up".
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« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2013, 09:50:44 AM »

The similarities still amaze me; it seems we were all with the same person.
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« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2013, 10:02:45 AM »

I've heard that one: "this was the worst two years of my life, I can't believe I wasted my time with you".

The truth is she loved it while it was happening, but re-wrote the whole thing in her head somehow.  The "normal" way to do it would be to say "look, this isn't going to work out, it's been fun but we should break up".

I was having that exact same thought. And for my part I will try to think that way. I saw that quote on instagram and I really liked it:

Ex means thanks for the experience, our time has expired and now please exit my life.

@fromheeltoheal

The similarities amaze me as well and its actually those similarities that made my register here in the first place. I felt that life was really unfair because all my friends enjoy a normal relationship or had at least a normal break up.

I thought why am I the only one who had to be hurt so much when breaking up? No nice words left.

But realizing that it seems to be a pattern of a people with BPD and seeing that other people were as unlucky as I was and got into a relationship with a BPD makes it easier for me to accept it and deal with it.

I think most of us did not know that he or she had BPD when we fell in love with them. In Germany we have a saying: "You can only look a people's forehead, not into their heads". But now that we had some insight into their heads we know better.

They were not the right ones for us and we can only hope for the next relationship with a normal beginning, a normal everyday life and a normal break up - and not this abuse relationship we just came out of.
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« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2013, 02:26:45 PM »

Staff only

Hi folks, this thread has reached the four page limit and is now locked.  Feel free to continue the conversation by starting a new topic.
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