lending dslr camera to exBPDbf

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I need advice on a small issue here.

I am in LC with my exBPDbf. We talk once in a week or so. I got an email from him this morning mentioning about a weekend beach trip with his current gf and if he can borrow my dslr camera for the trip. He is travelling to a beach town we want together last year and got some awesome photoshoot done.

I am into photography. I introduced him to my dslr camera and let him use it in past with me. Now, He knows I don't like giving my DSLR camera to anyone. It's my baby and very important to me. Why does he think, I would give him my camera knowing he will take pictures of his current gf with my camera. What the heck!

Now, I thinking of a polite way to deal with the situation because I don't want any drama. My options are

- Sorry, I don't prefer giving my camera to anyone to use in my absence. I would be much comfortable if you want to use it when I am around (Truth but hurtful to him. Can expect rage and drama)

- I have made plans for photowalk with a friend this weekend (polite)

- Some part of camera is broken(dumb excuse)

Most of you will wonder why do I still care about this guy who brought me so much pain. I am still trying to figure that out. I probably know what is the right thing to do but may be need some validation and motivation to just do it. 

[pari]

I need advice on a small issue here.

I am in LC with my exBPDbf. We talk once in a week or so. I got an email from him this morning mentioning about a weekend beach trip with his current gf and if he can borrow my dslr camera for the trip. He is travelling to a beach town we want together last year and got some awesome photoshoot done.

I am into photography. I introduced him to my dslr camera and let him use it in past with me. Now, He knows I don't like giving my DSLR camera to anyone. It's my baby and very important to me. Why does he think, I would give him my camera knowing he will take pictures of his current gf with my camera. What the heck!

Now, I thinking of a polite way to deal with the situation because I don't want any drama. My options are

- Sorry, I don't prefer giving my camera to anyone to use in my absence. I would be much comfortable if you want to use it when I am around (Truth but hurtful to him. Can expect rage and drama)

- I have made plans for photowalk with a friend this weekend (polite)

- Some part of camera is broken(dumb excuse)

Most of you will wonder why do I still care about this guy who brought me so much pain. I am still trying to figure that out. I probably know what is the right thing to do but may be need some validation and motivation to just do it. 

[GreenMango]

I don't like giving my DSLR camera to anyone

Sounds like a good enough reason to me.  It's an expensive and important piece of equipment to you.

He has enough money for a weekend for two away and can't get a digital camera? 

I know you mentioned being afriad of his rage.  What's the worst that will happen? 

It's okay to say No I don't lend my equipment out.  People with BPD aren't known for appropriate boundaries. 

I wouldn't lend mine a stick of gum - he'd put it in my hair.

[snappafcw]

You don't owe him anything. He is lucky you are still even talking to him as far as i'm concerned.

[pari]

Thanks guys for giving me strength to the right thing.

I told him that I am not comfortable lending the camera. He said, it really hurt but also said that he wouldn't trust himself with expensive item as he tends to break good things in life, like me and my fragile heart. (being victim again).

I validated him and explained that it's not him, I just don't like giving my camera to anyone else. etc. He understood and responded like normal human being. (score)

I know that I don't need to any of this, talk to him, validate him when he left me hurting, to be with a new one. I have accepted the fact that I DO NO WANT a FUTURE with him and things didn't work out between us. But what I shared with him early on in r/s was beautiful. We both opened up in ways we had never been with anyone. He still is very special to me. I know his rage, anger, depression, inconsistency is all because he doesn't know how to handle it. He needs help but doesn't know how to take it (He is seeing a counsellor). I tried to help him and failed, finally removed myself from the situation.  He seems really depressed. I still can't justify my desire to support him by being there, just by listening to him and validate him. One thing is for sure is that I am a very empathetic and compassionate person and often end up breaking my boundaries while helping others. I have brought this up with my T and we are working on it already. My counsellor has asked me write about this, so I can identify the actual reasons.

[Surnia]

Hi pari

Great you could tell him about your NO about the camera! And even better with validating! 

I think the ability to say no is a important thing according to boundaries. So you could practice it already. 

[Reg]

Hi Pari,

Good way to interact and say no indeed.

There is actually more behind this situation then we might think.

Of course there is the fact that it is borderline manipulative to show you that he is going to do a new photoshoot on the same location as you both did.

But I've come to notice a very similar behavior in a number of people with borderline on that matter.

My former partner, and someone else I knew with BPD from around her, seems to have done exactly the same. I even did read it here as well recently.

It looks as if they are trying to copy paste a good memory they had, with a new partner, not understanding, that it can never be the same.  My former partner has a real tendancy of going back to places where she had good memories of.  Even the camping place from her youth... . She doesn't go to another one.

Fears for a new unknown environment ?

Reg

[happylogist]

Reg, yes, it is a spot on. In my case, we both dreamed to meet this summer in a city that we both loved. Or at least he knew that I wanted to (I question his true and mirroring desires). In August he was there, but not with me, with his new gf.  He presented that it was she who wanted to go there and he was considering it as a bit odd, but ... .in a conversation he said something "yes, this would be odd", but  here you go, they were there and were pretty happy.  So in a way it was also as in the situation of Pari letting me know about his plans and being both - insensitive and honest.

[Reg]

Happylogist

I'm wondering if there's anything honest about it.  It sounds more manipulative in the borderline unknowingly way, with the intention of making you suffer 'for what you did to them' (Yeah right !  )

Funny about the projection that it was not him but her who wanted this.  Not having to face again the fact of their borderline issues with denial and projection.

Reg

[HostNoMore]

Great job Pari.  You reached another milestone in your recovery.

Had you given that dslr to you ex, it may have ended up in his possession way longer than you would have liked as in forever.  Plus, it would have given him a massive leverage point as he knows the value of that item to you, and borderlines just love to control.  I would never want something as expensive as a dslr and lenses in the hands of someone with a PD where impulsive and other strange behaviors are so common.

Luckily for me, my exBPDgf was not a creative type so she never wanted my dslr though I would have stupidly "lent" it too her when I was enmeshed.  I did make the mistake of letting her hold a similar valued item which I never saw again. 

One of the first things that I did after I got dropped by her was to buy a new dslr for myself.  She hated the fact that I am creative.  Each photo that I composed and shot during my dark times was made even more fun with the knowledge that I was doing something she hated.  It also enhanced my creativity too. 

I had a hard enough time dealing with the fact she kept my property.  Had she stolen my classic Japan made Nikon glass, I would have needed a T.

Keep up the good work on yourself.

[Ironmanrises]

Host,

That means I will never see my few shirts, expensive shoes, and expensive cologne that I left in my exUBPDgfs house?

She will hold on to this stuff(assuming she didn't throw it put)... .?

[HostNoMore]

Ironmanfalls:

A definite probability of that happening, unfortunately.  I don't think they all do it though. It is a common behavior judging from my experience, and info that I got from others experiences in reading threads.  I had to literally plead with mine to return some property that a third party owned, and it took 5 months to have it show up in my mailbox one night.  Why she chose not to return my stuff at the same time is indicative of something going on in that little borderline brain though.

I know from my other breakups that returning property is always a very strong emotional experience.  For a borderline it's probably magnified a hundred fold.  The pathology of this PD lends itself to keeping things as reminders/trophies and maybe potential re-engagement tools in my lay opinion. Heaven only knows what it triggers within them when they keep things.

I just ended up writing the stuff off permanently.

[Ironmanrises]

Host,

Thanks for answering.

You would think that I was the one who left her based on her not returning my stuff... .

But she was the one who left me.

She never even bothered to make note of it.

Just further proof that there is no logic to dealing with BPD.

[Reg]

O there is a certain logic in the irrational bahavior !  I think it depends a bit on which of the four main types is the most important on the way they behave with (material) things, souvenirs, etc from the past.  Mine gave them almost all back to me in the end, ( with the exception of some underwear and swimming gear ! ) and they ended up in the trash as soon as possible from me (cards, photo's).

I've seen a borderline (one of my ex her recycles) holding on to every little souvenir from her former male and female partners.  Even having albums with pictures on each and every one of them.  She actually shows them to her new partners as well !  How frustrating must that be !

In her bathroom/bedroom is a photo of the one woman she could not get, and who is married.  She has been idealised beyond belief... .

[HostNoMore]

Good point Reg.  A lot of lucky folks do get their stuff back.

For the record, mine was a materialistic HF queen type.  Though materialistic is not a BPD characteristic.  I do remember she had a chest where she showed me some items from some exs.   I remember thinking that it was kind of like creepy weird.  Yet another flag ol' HNM ignored.

Too bad we cannot statistically analyze all of the threads and break down common BPD behaviors by categories.  It would be so cool to see the data.

Even though there is a lot of overlap, they truly are not all the same.  Mine was highly intelligent but was really super impulsive.  I personally think that cheating is more common than keeping things after the relationship, and not all of them cheat. 

Of course, we all know that it's not really cheating when you repeatedly get dumped for one day and then get back together after she pulls you back into the relationship telling you how much she loves and really missed you.  Yet, another red flag.

In some ways they are insidiously logical.  Seriously though, my whole borderline experience really did leave me better off in the end.  I am much more healthy mentally and physically as a result of it.

[Reg]

Hi HostNoMore,

That last line is very appropriate for myself as well.

Yes, I do think that some statistics in a way might be most interesting on the matter, and even very good information for therapists as well.

Although materialism is not a characteristic of borderline, it seems to be very common in a specific way with some of them, but not out of materialism itself.

My former partner was always complaining about not having any clothes, although she had a really very large wardrobe full of them... .She was always shopping, and at the end she started on line shopping in every way, especially clothing.  Even her groceries, not having to see people out of shame any more.  She was scared to go shopping alone !  Scared to go new places sometimes, etc.

Having clothes, mostly famous brands, seems to make her feel a little bit somebody.  It seems to be a replacement for her lack of identity.

Same with cars, she has to buy at least one every year.  Most of them BMW's, not new ones as she can not afford that, but the excuse is that the older models look a lot better then the new ones.

Same with her house, it can never ever look perfect enough, resulting in loan after loan, resulting already in having to sell her first house, and well the second one will go in the same direction I guess.

But I agree, they are not at all doing this.

And indeed not all of them are cheating, etc as well.  Mine was highly functioning at work, perfectionistic in it, and in the two and a half years I worked with her, I never remarked any red flags... . The impulsiveness, o yes, something I remember as well, also on a high level... .

Should look it back up, but think mine was a HF Waif... .with some traits of the hermite as well.

Finally, we are a lot better of without them, and we did learn the lesson on them and ourselves.

[HostNoMore]

Reg,

Mine was really thrifty with her clothes, but come cars and houses only the best would do for her just like yours.  I live in an historic home, and she would just lose it every time she would come to my house.  It's well made with killer wood and craftsmanship but is lacking in some modern niceties.   Her place had to be immaculate, yet she'd leave crusty dishes out for way too long in the kitchen.  I used to do the dishes just to keep myself from barfing in the morning.  She once raged at me for cleaning out the coffee pot after use one time.  Yet, she'd rage if a decorative item were not just right.  I remember she also tried hard to get me to sell my house and go buy some outrageously unaffordable home with her with her having a 100% share on the deed, and that was in week 2 of the relationship.  I held a strong boundary there is all I can say so I did have the innate ability in me. That would have been the mother of all train wrecks at least for me.

Frankly, mine's perfect SO would be a guy who would be satisfied being a monogamous doormat for her who would let her be polyamorous at her whim.  Maybe even setup a camera for him or a peephole in the closet so he could watch her with other guys and maybe a lady every now and then. (Message to exBPDgf, if she ever makes me: Honey, keep looking he's out there somewhere.)

Borderlines have serious internal issues with self-identity to say the least which explains, at least to me, why they are so inconsistent.  I used to watch mine vacillate between two contradictory positions like a switch was flipping back and forth in her head.

[Ironmanrises]

So basically the line... .

I hate you, don't leave me... .

Used to describe BPD... .

The logic in my case would be... .

I hate you(she left me twice)... .

Don't leave me(keeps my cloths/shoes without returning them)... .

[HostNoMore]

You got it Ironmanfalls.   

Black/White and I hate you/Don't leave me is pretty much the essence of BPD to us.  I recently read a theoretical physics article about a 9 dimensional geometry that when plugged into the equations of particle physics vastly simplifies the calculations for them.  Supposedly, it helps them explain every possible interaction among the various fundamental particles in a much more efficient manner.  I find it highly intriguing as it should yield some fascinating discoveries over time as it's pretty revolutionary.

In BPD terms, we can only see them just as 2D(i.e.-Black/White) while they are trapped in a multidimensional cauldron of psychological internal turmoil that lies beyond the entire survey of our perception who sometimes just keep our stuff.

I had to post this so I that can make my 300th post in a few days on the second anniversary of my being dumped. 

Until then, HNM signing out.

[pari]

Thanks for your encouragement folks! It feels good to set boundaries and not have others freak out. 

Unlike what some of you have experienced with your exBPD partners, mine near took a thing from me. Infact, he gave me, more than I wanted or expected, so much that I sometimes I felt, I am not doing enough for him. He was very affectionate and giving, both in terms of gifts, time, understanding and love.

Feel so bad for those of you whose ex took things away from you and never returned.