Do BPD's get why we set boundaries, or is it constant boundary busting?

[Mutt]

I have been separated from my uBPD wife for 7 months.

My uBPD wife knows that when it's my time with the kids it's my time. I currently get them 2 weekends a month and I'm working with a divorce lawyer to get them half of the time.

She constantly disregards the boundaries that I set.

For example her parents are divorced and live 6 hours away. Both will come in for a weekend and visit her and not on the same weekends. She will ask if her parents can visit the kids on my weekends.

Another example would be this weekend. She had a chance to get some cheat tickets for an indoor amusement park and wanted to take them on my time.

I told her that her parents should facilitate to come down on her weekends if they want to see the kids and she has to schedule outings with the kids on her time.

She made me feel guilty about her parents because her mother did see them on one day on my weekend. In regards to the amusement park she said it was for my daughter's girl scouts.

I have more instances like this, but do they keep trying to bust your boundaries? I have been very clear and I have to keep reminding her the same things.

Do they just keep testing boundaries?


Thanks

- Mutt

[momtara]

Gosh, this isn't fair.  Just makes you feel guilty.  You shouldn't give up your time.

I don't know if they keep pushing boundaries, but I do think they'll get tired of it eventually.  So hang in there.

[david]

My ex will test a boundary for a while. As long as I am firm with it things go smoothly. It takes practice. Sometimes she will retest months later.

[Free One]

In my experience, the boundaries will always be pushed.

You have been trained to feel guilty about setting boundaries, probably your whole life. Working on developing your boundary skills can help you overcome the guilt and feel better about standing up for yourself.

[Mutt]

In my experience, the boundaries will always be pushed.

You have been trained to feel guilty about setting boundaries, probably your whole life. Working on developing your boundary skills can help you overcome the guilt and feel better about standing up for yourself.

Thanks Free One. You nailed it on the head. I hadn't even thought that. I have felt guilt all of my life with boundaries.

It's something for me to take ownership from this r/s and work on myself.

The more you do it, the more it becomes easier.

[Waddams]

As for extended family visits, it can go both ways.  I usually allow our son to go on my time when visits from extended his mom's extended family are happening because he doesn't get to see them much.  At the same time, if I have other plans already made, I stick to those plans with our son.  I also ask to trade off the time so I don't miss out on my time.  Can you get your BPDxw to trade time on her weekends for such instances?  If she's not willing to, and my time were limited to only EOW, I'd not be willing to give it up.  Sorry but seeing parent trumps grandparents under those circumstances in my book.

As for the girl scouts park trip, is there provision in your current orders that each parent is responsible for taking the kids to their extracurriculars during their parenting time?  If so, I'd respond to BPDxw "thanks!  just send the tickets with her for our weekend together so I can take her to her girl scouts activity per the orders" and enjoy the day at the park w/ your daughter.

Do they just keep testing boundaries?

Yup.  I know it gets tiring but look at it this way, it's better than still being married to them!

[thisyoungdad]

With my ex it seems that her parents are ALWAYS Here even though they live out of state, and they are at least half the problem. Needless to say they always stay 10 days and almost always on either or both ends do I have our daughter so if I only allowed them to see my daughter on the days she is with mom it wouldn't be much. Now I despise the parents, they have huge issues and single handed made it their goal to destroy our marriage. Now the BPD wife helped of course but none the less I am not fond of them. Yet I always am open to hearing what they want and working with them. I had to get extremely firm and tell them I was not going to rearrange my life to help them, however they have my number if they want time with her and they want to deal directly with me and call or text to ask for that I will do my best. I won't promise anything though. And at least once they have done that, called and asked for additional time with my daughter and I want her to have a relationship with them (it is not about the grandparents here) and so I have helped that happen. I set the rules though, and if my rules or boundaries are not followed then no visitation on my time and I mean it. They know it too because it is essentially a mutual dislike. It took a long time to get to that point and they still don't want to respect my request and don't respect me. But that is okay, because it is about my daughter not them.

[mother in law]

They do push boundaries isn't it about control? As you currently have only 4 days out of 30 with your children I would be saying no, she has  26 days from which to choose and you only have 4, she needs to negotiate with her parents to visit in her time. Sadly my experience is that every new decision that is made that makes the BPD's feel out of control they will not cooperate if it doesn't suit and our BPD has not tired of it yet.

[david]

I often times think it has nothing to do with control. My T told me negative engagement is still engagement. The more that sinks in the more I see my ex's antics as a way to engage.

[eeyore]

I don't think they even think a minute about it.  All they can think about is what they want when they want it.  It's really that simple. 

[Mutt]

As you currently have only 4 days out of 30 with your children I would be saying no, she has  26 days from which to choose and you only have 4, she needs to negotiate with her parents to visit in her time.

I agree and this is my logic.

I often times think it has nothing to do with control. My T told me negative engagement is still engagement. The more that sinks in the more I see my ex's antics as a way to engage.

I didn't figure this out until last weekend and it's something that I have to work on to disengage. It's embarrassing to go controlled contact, then she says or does something then I react.  It's hard, but I think eventually I will get to a place where I will stop reacting. I will give myself credit. I have been good with defending my boundaries.

I don't think they even think a minute about it.  All they can think about is what they want when they want it.  It's really that simple. 

Good point. I never thought of it that way.

[david]

My ex left in 2007. It took a few years to get where our communication is right now. She would call, text, email etc and I would react/respond. I didn't like texting and got rid of it. It wasn't just because of ex, I just don't like it. I stopped answering my cell phone and used email only. That took time but eventually she got it. Just last year she started calling from various phone numbers so I stopped answering my cell altogether. She would leave voicemails. I would put them in my phone book. I had 6 or 7 at that time. She just started that again two weeks ago.

Ex doesn't like emails because there is no emotional connection. I have learned to reduce communication to 3 to 5 sentences most of the time. I only address issues with the kids. I can get an email a few paragraphs long about all kinds of things that would upset me years ago. I ignore it all and only reply to the part about our kids. I am especially aware of minimizing my reply during those rants.

[Mutt]

I have learned to reduce communication to 3 to 5 sentences most of the time. I only address issues with the kids. I can get an email a few paragraphs long about all kinds of things that would upset me years ago. I ignore it all and only reply to the part about our kids. I am especially aware of minimizing my reply during those rants.

I'm struggling with this and it's something I'm trying to work on. That's what I mean when I engage her with something that upsets me like this past weekend. She tries to get a reaction through the kids. My D7 said "mom said bf is a part of the family now, he's going to be moving in or we're moving in with bf, mom says she is going to marry bf". So I fired back an e-mail after I had initiated minimal contact.

The rambling in my case is I try to point out logic or defend my position etc... .  but it's taken me a long time to realize that making a point doesn't matter. I will always lose the argument.

It doesn't matter what mom is doing in her life. I'm working on trying to get 50/50 parenting, and put a parenting plan in place to minimize the conflict.

I agree with you. Communiques' to the point, business-like and about the kids only.

[Free One]

I have learned to reduce communication to 3 to 5 sentences most of the time. I only address issues with the kids. I can get an email a few paragraphs long about all kinds of things that would upset me years ago. I ignore it all and only reply to the part about our kids. I am especially aware of minimizing my reply during those rants.

I'm struggling with this and it's something I'm trying to work on. That's what I mean when I engage her with something that upsets me like this past weekend. She tries to get a reaction through the kids. My D7 said "mom said bf is a part of the family now, he's going to be moving in or we're moving in with bf, mom says she is going to marry bf". So I fired back an e-mail after I had initiated minimal contact.

The rambling in my case is I try to point out logic or defend my position etc... .  but it's taken me a long time to realize that making a point doesn't matter. I will always lose the argument.

It doesn't matter what mom is doing in her life. I'm working on trying to get 50/50 parenting, and put a parenting plan in place to minimize the conflict.

I agree with you. Communiques' to the point, business-like and about the kids only.

Find a safe person you can vent to about these kinds of interactions. It helps to get it out, and then you can focus on a less engaging response (or determine if one is even necessary) for pwBPD, because you are right; making a point doesn't matter.

[Mutt]

Find a safe person you can vent to about these kinds of interactions. It helps to get it out, and then you can focus on a less engaging response (or determine if one is even necessary) for pwBPD, because you are right; making a point doesn't matter.

I have a safe person. I have been doing it backwards.   I engage with ex uBPDw, then vent to them. I should be venting and not engaging.

[david]

Vent to your friends and write the email. Don't send it. Wait a few days and read if you want. Don't send it.

I would send emails to explain, reason, etc back in 2007 and 2008. That never worked well and I believe it actually made ex do even more. Negative engagement is still engagement. That is what she wanted and that is what she got.                                                                                                                              Eventually I stopped. The dynamics began to slowly change. I still felt the same way but refused to engage. I worried the kids would suffer. There were a few things but, fortunately, nothing like I imagined. Over time ex did less and less since she was not getting what she wanted from me. (engagement) She then had an extinction burst of epic proportions but it was only directed at me. I wound up in jail under false allegations. I then purchased a video and audio recorder. I keep them in my car with spare batteries. She knows I have them and I have used them when she approached me during pick up times. She now stays away.

During this time I focused on the kids needs. My ace is that she is unable to do that. Gradually the boys trusted me more and more. That was the one thing ex lost and will not get back. She has done too many inconsistent things with them that neither one trusts her.

It took me years to get to this point. I am a much better parent because of this. I learned how to listen to our kids much better and I also learned to validate their thoughts and feelings. They come to me whenever they need to talk about something. I have found , as I listen to them, that they hardly talk to their mom when they are with her and do not share their thoughts and feelings. I feel bad for them but I accept the reality of the situation.

[Mutt]

Vent to your friends and write the email. Don't send it. Wait a few days and read if you want. Don't send it.

I would send emails to explain, reason, etc back in 2007 and 2008. That never worked well and I believe it actually made ex do even more. Negative engagement is still engagement. That is what she wanted and that is what she got.

8 years I would try to reason with her or try to get her to explain her logic to me, but I didn't realize what I was dealing with the entire time. Years of threats of divorce and she finally left. Trying to reason with her after we're finished is like the same cycle when we were together.

Good suggestions on e-mails david. I can write, save the e-mail then go back to it a couple of days later. I told her that I am only going to check/respond to e-mails twice a month, the day before pick up for the kids. Once I get 50/50 or more time through the family courts, then I will adjust it to what's needed.

Eventually I stopped. The dynamics began to slowly change. I still felt the same way but refused to engage. I worried the kids would suffer. There were a few things but, fortunately, nothing like I imagined.

I feel the same. I worry because I don't feel like because I'm not engaged with the mother, it's like I'm disengaged from the kids. The family dynamics are different now. She has her own family constellation and I have my own family constellation (me and the 3 kids) and there is no need to mingle the two.

Over time ex did less and less since she was not getting what she wanted from me. (engagement) She then had an extinction burst of epic proportions but it was only directed at me. I wound up in jail under false allegations. I then purchased a video and audio recorder. I keep them in my car with spare batteries. She knows I have them and I have used them when she approached me during pick up times. She now stays away.

My heart goes out to the husbands or ex-husbands that have to go through false allegations and going to jail.  I did get charged a few years ago for assault when my ex-wife attacked me and I had defended myself. Luckily the charges got dropped by the Crown Prosecutor (Canada) and for the life of me at the time, I could not understand why a spouse would attack her husband, then try to send him to jail.

I do not trust my ex-wife. I have clearly told her that I will not come to her door to get the kids, but to let the kids out and I will pick them up from the side of the complex. She tried to fight me several times on this, the kids are too small etc... .but she does it now. I have told her I want her 25' ft away from me.

She tried to make a point to drop the kids off at my house last week and she wanted to come to the door. Again, I had to defend my boundary, she complied, but I told her that I will use a voice recorder (I have one on my Blackberry, but I am going to pick up some proper equipment as yourself) if she is anywhere near me. She said "Believe me Mutt, I don't want you to be less than '25 of me as well... ." Either way, since I'm in the black now, I can see she will say something only... .to later on say the complete opposite as if she never said what she said in the first place. It's like she doesn't care what she says and that scares me.

During this time I focused on the kids needs. My ace is that she is unable to do that. Gradually the boys trusted me more and more. That was the one thing ex lost and will not get back. She has done too many inconsistent things with them that neither one trusts her.

It took me years to get to this point. I am a much better parent because of this. I learned how to listen to our kids much better and I also learned to validate their thoughts and feelings. They come to me whenever they need to talk about something. I have found , as I listen to them, that they hardly talk to their mom when they are with her and do not share their thoughts and feelings. I feel bad for them but I accept the reality of the situation

Thanks for sharing David. Everyone's circumstances in how we get here are different, but this lets me peak into the future. I have been anxious as to how controlled contact is going to affect the kids and if things are finally going to ease a little. It's still early with everything. My D7 has a lot of questions that she asks her mom, then she asks me. I sense that mom just tells her whatever and then D7 comes to me. I tell her the truth in a way a kid would understand and hopefully down the road, she will gravitate towards dad and the same with my boys.

Between my ex and I, only I have the ability to change. I already have, she just started the same toxic dance over again with someone else but says "I'm moving on" People that have moved on, don't have to say that they have moved on, they just do.

I feel so much happier than I for the last 8 years. Her leaving me was a blessing in disguise. It has made my core issues come to the surface and I've been dealing with them in therapy. I'm glad this happened to me at 39 because I have many years ahead and I want to break this cycle, I do not want to fall in the same trap as I did with my ex-wife. I deserve to be happy and my ex isn't the person for me, there's another woman out there for me.

Instead of focusing on the ex and engaging her when I have the kids, I want to ignore her antics because she's just trying to spoil my time with them, and just enjoy being with them. Just being with them is therapeutic.

[david]

My ex left in 2007. The boys were 4.5 and 8.5 at the time. When our oldest turned around 10 he started to see things more clearly. Our youngest is 10 now and I see similar things going on with him now. I think it is normal developmental stages everyone goes through. Younger kids have less coping skills and ex was very good at keeping them the way she thought/wanted/ whatever. As they grew she had more difficulty dealing with them and their independence. That is a trigger for her. I think it challenges her compartmentalization. When that starts to unravel she pushes away.

[Mutt]

My ex left in 2007. The boys were 4.5 and 8.5 at the time. When our oldest turned around 10 he started to see things more clearly. Our youngest is 10 now and I see similar things going on with him now. I think it is normal developmental stages everyone goes through. Younger kids have less coping skills and ex was very good at keeping them the way she thought/wanted/ whatever. As they grew she had more difficulty dealing with them and their independence. That is a trigger for her. I think it challenges her compartmentalization. When that starts to unravel she pushes away.

My D7 is sad. She sees the ex and affair partner in her home constantly displaying affection with hugging and kissing. He's there all of the time since the second week of separation. There was a family event going at the school and she was really excited about it and wanted to go as a family and it broke my heart to tell her that we're not a family anymore. She's also asked mom questions about why we split up and mom says "sometimes people aren't meant for each other" like a carte blanche. I said to my D7 "marriage is serious and when you marry someone you put a lot of thought into thinking if this person is for you" and I left it at that.

The devaluation the kids are going to see again worries me, and it's not just going to be with the current bf, it will be with more. I have my fingers crossed that I can get shared parenting in family court and at least half of the time, they will live with an emotionally stable person versus an emotionally chaotic person.