Do they get why you go controlled contact?

[Mutt]

I have S2, S5, D7 with me estranged uBPD wife.

I told my wife that I need to go controlled contact with her to heal and to move on.

She keeps e-mailing me about things that don't require immediate attention with the kids after I have told her that we can communicate once a week about the kids.

Do they get why you need to go controlled contact? I can't go NC due to the kids.

[papawapa]

Even if they do get it, It doesnt matter to them because they have no respect for boundaries.

All you can do is ignore her and communicate with her once a week. You set the terms, it is up to you to enforce them.

[GreenMango]

Mutt I remember asking for things that... .well frankly things you shouldn't have to ask for - respect, decency, etc and if asked for reasonable people comply with or at least try.  Mine was like a child in this respect.

My experience was like papawapa the person didn't have boundaries and didn't respect others boundaries.

It was a constant battle and I felt like I had to be constantly aware and policing mine for any crossing.  It was exhausting.

It's important to be consistent and not inadvertently reward the violations.  For lack of a better phrase - its like animal training or child rearing.  You ever had to train a dog?  I know you have kids... .when they start the start the typical (normal) kid thing of pushing to see where your rules are what do you do?  

[Mutt]

Mutt I remember asking for things that... .well frankly things you shouldn't have to ask for - respect, decency, etc and if asked for reasonable people comply with or at least try.  Mine was like a child in this respect.

My experience was like papawapa the person didn't have boundaries and didn't respect others boundaries.

It was a constant battle and I felt like I had to be constantly aware and policing mine for any crossing.  It was exhausting.

It's important to be consistent and not inadvertently reward the violations.  For lack of a better phrase - its like animal training or child rearing.  You ever had to train a dog?  I know you have kids... .when they start the start the typical (normal) kid thing of pushing to see where your rules are what do you do?  

You have to keep re-enforcing. I've noticed it comes in waves with her. If I break contact usually about a week of so she'll come up with some emotional black-mail to try to counter my boundary and I stick to the boundary. It is exausting, but I do have to say it's easier than living with her. I needed to hear it from others in the same situation. A child goes through stages and learns and develops. She is stuck in this limbo, where she is a perpetual child and the reality is, it will always be like this. It was always like this but my eyes where closed. Only when I started setting boundaries is when I started getting the emotional black-mail, impulsitivity and extreme reactions against my boundaries. Roughly 3 years ago, I had enough with the way that she would cut me down, denegrade me and have a couple's fight in front of family anf friends. An example would be just before we would go out with friends, she would start acting out. I set a boundary and told her if she acts like that, we're not going out. I stuck to it, but she never changed the behavior. She would get impulsive and take van and drive as if she was going to go the outing without me, but come back a half an hour later.

[GreenMango]

It is exausting, but I do have to say it's easier than living with her

So true!

What's the saying - the better of two bad options?

Mutt I remember the hurtful and  embarassing moments like you mentioned.  I didn't like the thinly veiled hostility and how it leaked out and affected our family and friend relationships.  That part was one of the last straws - I had this sinking feeling if I kept down that road the only person left in my life woud be him.  And I would be a shell of the person I once was.

I know the idea of having to police or parent my wayward mate for the rest of my life wasn't an option for me.  Some people can do it and they find some workable part in there.  I just couldn't - I wanted a partner not an adult child.

And the real demise the relationship came when I really started to get serious about my boundaries and needs.  It wasn't mean or unreasonable ... .But for the other person it felt mean and unreasonable.  And the same thing happened like you mentioned, the boundary pushing, the tantrums, the unreasonable demands,  the hail Mary passes... .all ratcheted up to point of ridiculousness.  I couldn't take it and it was taking a severe toll on my health stress wise.  I can't imagine what this would be like having to raise kids at the same time.  Nightmare comes to mind tho.

What I learned from all this was "love" isn't enough and it certainly doesn't fix problems like these. And a healthy relationship will have reasonable conditions.

[Mutt]

And the real demise the relationship came when I really started to get serious about my boundaries and needs.

Thanksgiving 2011. That's when I had enough with her starting fights right before a family trip to see the in-laws, then once she was there, she was in her comfort zone being with family and she would let me have it.

It happened all of the time and I told her I'm not going if she doesn't calm down, apologize and stop, but she didn't. I spent that Thanksgiving alone and she went but there was hell tp pay when she got back. I kept sticking to my boundaries.

That Thanksgiving  was really the catalyst to the demise of my marriage in February 21st, 2013.

Why should we have to constantly defend our boundaries with our SO's. I knew it wasn't right then, but it is easier now.

I find it to be more stressful now with the kids to be honest after separation because I'm not with them. At least while I was with her, I had my eye on them and could protect them. I was in her fog back then, I couldn't see the forest past the trees. I put out fires, she would constantly pick fights about things I had no clue what she was talking about, I tried to protect the kids and do the normal family things, business as usual but looking back on it now, I can't believe I didn't break down then. I consiously had blinders on to make things easier for my psyche.


Now, it feels like a severe storm that comes in every week to every couple of weeks. It goes as quickly as it comes in, but it makes me feel wrung out. A small price to pay for the serenity of being single with kids.

What I really don't miss is the ups and downs everyday. One day feeling miserable at work because of my wife and feeling better the next day and there was nothing I could do to try to make the situation or problem better.  I don't miss having to come home and feeling like I'm stepping on landmines. I don't miss the confusion, guilt and rages. I don't miss her vicious verbal attacks in front of the kids.

[GreenMango]

I feel like the last year was culmination of events that poisoned the well.  But if I was to try to put my finger on one particular thing that really opened my eyes and scared the crap out of me - it was the baby ultimatums and the push for affection/sex in the midst of all the bad behavior.  The idea of getting more "locked" in, feeling like I was rewarding and giving a thumbs up for things to continue as is, and quite frankly I didn't think it was a solution.  

I can't remember one holiday where if it wasn't sabotaged the after effects of hostility and general negativity towards myself and other people didn't happen.  

Relationships like these are crash course in psychology and self awareness.  Its pretty crazy.  By the time it was over I could clock the shenanigans like the sun setting and rising.

Why should we have to constantly defend our boundaries with our SO's. I knew it wasn't right then, but it is easier now.

I used to ask myself this same question/thought a lot.  The best I came up with was "I don't have to with the right person" when I find that person.  These things will be easier and it will be a discussion with mutual compromise etc.  

I find it to be more stressful now with the kids to be honest after separation because I'm not with them. At least while I was with her, I had my eye on them and could protect them. I was in her fog back then, I couldn't see the forest past the trees. I put out fires, she would constantly pick fights about things I had no clue what she was talking about, I tried to protect the kids and do the normal family things, business as usual but looking back on it now, I can't believe I didn't break down then. I consiously had blinders on to make things easier for my psyche.

This would worry me too.  I'm sure there's some seasoned parents who have cut their teeth a bit on this and have good advice.  If it was me I would try to be in tune with my kids knowing that the other parent is pretty ill equipped.  I guess I would be really involved and learning how to validate their feelings and hopefully help them learn how to be resilient and how to deal with difficult or troubled people.  It's a good skill to know.

You mentioned being wrung out and the fog.  I don't know about you but when the fog finally lifted it was like I had already gone through a lot of the grief while in the relationship.  So at the end I didn't really get depressed anymore like during the first couple if years if fights, makeups and chaos ... .I was just tired.  And pissed. But mostly too wrung out to give anything else.  I needed to conserve my efforts for things that were more important.  

It really changed how I look at things.  

[Mutt]

Coming out of the fog for me meant that I'm starting to see how dysfunctional the realtionship was for 8 years and how I nearly started to believe that there was something wrong with me. I remember her equations and it always equaled to me being the problem and I let a mentally ill person lead the charge.

Being out of the fog means freedom. Seeing things for what they were and for what they are now. It means confidence and self esteem is returning. At least for me. I feel like I'm coming back to the old me, but much much wiser. 

Controlled contact means that I don't want to engage, I don't want to be sucked back into that life.  It means someone fears abandonment and even if communication is negative, they still want it. There's nothing else for us to talk about other than the kids and that makes me happy.

[GlennT]

In terms of raising children, I really feel sorry for them the most. For the psychological burden they bear. My psychology professor said, children witnessing their parents devalue one another, day after day can cause their own abandonment issues, guilt, and shame. Knowing this, if I had kids, I would try to refrain from devaluing their BPD parent.That is how the non could be a role model for them as soon as possible, and stick with those boundaries, so the children may learn to respect themselves, and you, and do likewise, if they ever need to, with the BPD parent.

[Mutt]

In terms of raising children, I really feel sorry for them the most. For the psychological burden they bear. My psychology professor said, children witnessing their parents devalue one another, day after day can cause their own abandonment issues, guilt, and shame. Knowing this, if I had kids, I would try to refrain from devaluing their BPD parent.That is why the non should be a role model for them as soon as possible, and stick with those boundaries, so the children may learn to respect themselves, and you, and do likewise, if they ever need to, with the BPD parent.

100% agree.

I'll have to lead by example and be & their rock for them. I'm trying to get 50/50 and have them live with me half of the time.

The ex is talking about the exit affair partner moving in with her or her moving in with them. The devaluation cycle will begin all over again in front of them. Then the cycle with start again with the next guy too.