I'm more fixated on my Replacement than on my ex?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Things seem to have shifted in my mind recently.

I can now think of my ex without hurting. I think of him less and less. The methods I've been using to make memories less painful are working. The methods I've been using to break the habits of thinking of him all of the time are working.

What is now emerging as a really big painful problem is the thought of him preferring my Replacement.

It emerged this week in therapy that in childhood I was 'set up with' the concept that such a thing exists as The Perfect Girl, and that there seems to have been what my T calls a three-way-collision between my childhood damaging conditioning, and my ex-bf's conditioning, and the death of my tyrannical sister.

It seems that in my mind I have what my T calls a Perception Skew, so that my Replacement, who is actually just some woman in another country, now represents The Perfect Girl, or in this case the Perfect Girlfriend.

What is hurting me is finding myself all day today in horrible pain, wondering if he's flown back to be with her, if he's skyping her, if he's messaging her, if he is happy with her like he wasn't with me... .

I know he is uBPD, so there will have been idealisation, but it seems that I'm now doing my own idealisation of her from afar on his behalf, thanks to my childhood issues.

At present, I don't yet have the therapy tools to counter this.

All I can do is tell myself:

- if he actually saw her as The Perfect Girlfriend then he wouldn't have been sending me love-letters only 3 weeks ago, and even after my angry email he was still sending me contact a week later, and only this week he tried to convince me to join his online gaming and talk with him. If he was truly happy with her, he would have labelled me as "100% bad" and not be contacting me

- he is uBPD and nobody will be Perfect Girlfriend for long anyway

- if he perceived her as Perfect Girlfriend, then there wouldn't have been two defriendings in a month on Facebook


Eventually, I need to know deep down that there is no Perfect Girlfriend, but at present all I can think of is that he thinks she is perfect and that I was everything wrong.

This is not me wanting him back, or being jealous - when I think of him and me, I only feel a little sad now, wistful maybe, sad it went so horribly wrong but I'm ok with it.

This is about my childhood fears of inadequacy, that there is a Perfect and it isn't me, and that everyone will always *prefer* the Perfect one.

How come I'm more obsessed now with her than with him?

But oh boy, this is about my childhood and my own fears... .

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Things seem to have shifted in my mind recently.

I can now think of my ex without hurting. I think of him less and less. The methods I've been using to make memories less painful are working. The methods I've been using to break the habits of thinking of him all of the time are working.

What is now emerging as a really big painful problem is the thought of him preferring my Replacement.

It emerged this week in therapy that in childhood I was 'set up with' the concept that such a thing exists as The Perfect Girl, and that there seems to have been what my T calls a three-way-collision between my childhood damaging conditioning, and my ex-bf's conditioning, and the death of my tyrannical sister.

It seems that in my mind I have what my T calls a Perception Skew, so that my Replacement, who is actually just some woman in another country, now represents The Perfect Girl, or in this case the Perfect Girlfriend.

What is hurting me is finding myself all day today in horrible pain, wondering if he's flown back to be with her, if he's skyping her, if he's messaging her, if he is happy with her like he wasn't with me... .

I know he is uBPD, so there will have been idealisation, but it seems that I'm now doing my own idealisation of her from afar on his behalf, thanks to my childhood issues.

At present, I don't yet have the therapy tools to counter this.

All I can do is tell myself:

- if he actually saw her as The Perfect Girlfriend then he wouldn't have been sending me love-letters only 3 weeks ago, and even after my angry email he was still sending me contact a week later, and only this week he tried to convince me to join his online gaming and talk with him. If he was truly happy with her, he would have labelled me as "100% bad" and not be contacting me

- he is uBPD and nobody will be Perfect Girlfriend for long anyway

- if he perceived her as Perfect Girlfriend, then there wouldn't have been two defriendings in a month on Facebook


Eventually, I need to know deep down that there is no Perfect Girlfriend, but at present all I can think of is that he thinks she is perfect and that I was everything wrong.

This is not me wanting him back, or being jealous - when I think of him and me, I only feel a little sad now, wistful maybe, sad it went so horribly wrong but I'm ok with it.

This is about my childhood fears of inadequacy, that there is a Perfect and it isn't me, and that everyone will always *prefer* the Perfect one.

How come I'm more obsessed now with her than with him?

But oh boy, this is about my childhood and my own fears... .

[fromheeltoheal]

The Perfect Girlfriend does exist in the BPD's head, although as we know now it's fantasy based, and therefore won't last.  You were The Perfect Girlfriend to him during the idealization stage, but it's a flow-through system and it's her turn now; no worries, she'll get kicked to the curb eventually too.

But you're right, it's human nature to feel 'less-than', it's shame based, and surely has childhood origins.  The good news is everyone feels it to one degree or another, and the solution is a matter of focus.  You are better at being you than anyone, in fact you do you perfectly, and you really are someone's Perfect Girlfriend, just not someone from crazytown.  You know this, and you can give it to yourself.

The way I think of my replacement is he's about to get the wonderous growing experience that is the BPD spin cycle like the rest of us got; therein lies the purpose of that pathology, and I'm even grateful for it at times.

Take care of you.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

The Perfect Girlfriend does exist in the BPD's head, although as we know now it's fantasy based, and therefore won't last. 

And it clearly isn't, if he's actively trying to re-engage me and has been defriending-refriending-defriending her every week or two on FB!

I think probably what I need to get to grips with is that 'perfect' does not exist, for anyone, in anyone, at all, ever. There is no such thing, despite what I grew up believing.

If 'perfect' exists, then I am less than perfect and therefore bad.

BUT if 'perfect' does not exist, then I am no lesser than anyone else, and can always work to improve myself as a person, and therefore I am not bad.

Does that make sense?

[fromheeltoheal]

One thing I've learned about BPD is the sufferer harbors reunion fantasies with all their exes, it's never really over for any of them.  My take is it's a shame-based disorder, they blame themselves at the core, and reconnecting provides validation that they aren't 'bad'.  Plus you were a source of soothe at one point, and you might come in handy later; it's all about him.  Mine found me again after 25 years!

Perfect is actually the lowest standard, since it's unachievable.  I say humans are perfectly imperfect, all of us flawed, and tell me, is there someone you like or love despite their imperfections, in fact because of them?  I say let fly with who you are, all the way, define that as perfect, and the right people will consider it perfect too.

[patientandclear]

Escaped ... .I am so with you.

My ex went from seemingly being incredibly torn up about what happened with us (he broke up with me on the heels of the happiest of times, but two months later, the reason he'd pointed to had suddenly evaporated, and he wanted to try again, and it had been the hardest thing he'd ever endured, being apart from me; except when I said yes, he suddenly wasn't sure, yada yada yada) ... .to pursuing his exgf within days, weeks, I'm not quite sure.  I know he'd emailed her the week before the breakup, just triangulation at that point I think, looking for a pressure release valve & a backup plan because things were getting intense and real with us.

Anyway. It about killed me.  She works in my office and there were traces of this renewed love affair between them where I could not avoid them -- in office emails, in references by mutual friends.  What made its way back to me was him saying that he'd been pining for her ever since they parted, and this was why he hadn't been able to make it work with any other women (me).

The pain!  On the one year anniversary of everything we'd done together, they were off doing something together -- plans we'd made, they did.  She had some requirements for their r/s that he ostensibly was going to meet, extraordinary things (kids when he didn't want more kids, religious conversion), when "all" I'd needed him to do was grapple with his intimacy challenges (!).  The sense that he was showing up for/with her, when he wouldn't for me, just destroyed me.  It was the exact thing you're talking about: the sense that I would never be chosen.  Out of a set of two, the other woman would be picked.

It got so bad that I had a dream that a past love of mine, who ended up not choosing to be with me, chose this woman (the same woman my uBPDex was pursuing).  Wow, hit me over the head with a 2x4, right?  This is obviously a deeply painful issue for me.

It's no longer what bothers me because he did her just like he did me, only it seems so much worse because it was a second/third/fourth time for her (they'd split several times in the few months they dated the first time around).  And she's younger, and wants kids, and felt he was the love of her life, and ... .it's all awful. He suddenly decided he didn't want to be together with her after all, less than two months after she finally said yes, she'd try again with him.

But even though I had all kinds of objective reasons to anticipate it would go like that with them, while he was chasing her & then they were together, I simply could not escape the shame pit of him putting me down and picking her up like that, and choosing not to do the work that would have allowed us to stay together and build what had seemed such a sweet, true, good r/s.  The only explanation seemed to be that she was more worthy and I was less so.

Those ideas come straight out of our heads and hearts, but man, the BPD dynamic sure makes a great canvas on which they can play out in horrible ways.

[Ironmanrises]

Escaped... .

I am truly sorry that you are experiencing that.

The thoughts of your ex... .

Replacing you with someone else... .

Hurts.

Hurts to the inner core.

Hurts all the way... .

To your ego.

And the fact... .

That you have direct knowledge... .

Of that... .

Intensifies that hurt... .

Even more... .

Then necessary.

I can imagine how much... .

That must hurt.

Perhaps gradually... .

Having less and less... .

Knowledge of the... .

"Friending/unfriending... ."

That your ex is exhibiting... .

With that person... .

Will tone down that hurt... .

That you are feeling.

It won't cure you... .

Of it.

But it will help.

Those thoughts... .

Will swirl around in your mind... .

Which has already taken... .

Enough damage from your exBPDbf.

That part of you... .

Needs to heal... .

So that the rest of you... .

Can heal in tandem.



Keep posting on here.

You are not alone Escaped.

[DragoN]

Escaped

I simply could not escape the shame pit of him putting me down and picking her up like that

She doesn't matter at all. She could be Quasimodo and and her butt take up all the seats in econo on a 747. It's your own sense of Self Worth that is the culprit. And PD's do a fine job of hammering that when we let them.

[ucmeicu2]

you know, i've been there... .obsessing over my replacement (is there a replacement yet?  is it "him"?  is it "her"?  this one?  that one?  is it all of them?  are they better than me? is she happier with them?  blah blah)

but mostly now i just figure my replacement WILL get the same/similar treatment i got... .how could they not?  pwBPD are, gauging from what i read here, quite predictable in their r/s patterns.

and sometimes on rare occasions, when i'm lucky, i'm able to say to myself "well, i loved her then and i love her now and what more could i want for someone that i love than for them to be happy?  so, if/when she finds replacement 1, 2, 3, ad nauseum, i will be hopeful that she finds true love, true healing, and true happiness".  THAT is my long term goal of love and acceptance.

icu2

[darling82]

Escaped, I too can feel your pain. My exh with bipolar and undiagnosed BPD (I believe) told after nine years together that he wanted to end things with me because he could not forgive me for leaving him last year. The next week he was introducing my stepson to his new gf, the same girl I had intercepted a suspicious text from the week earlier. I am convinced my exh is manic, because he says he doesn't care about the new girl and has tried as recently as last week to initiate sex with me. I slipped a couple of times and did sleep with him but I have since seen him correspond with how much the two love each other (barf) after dating a month.

My anger is aimed at this new woman, helped by the fact that she had texted me the day she met me that my exh was no longer my burden and that she didn't care that she contributed to the breakup of a marriage. I have stopped myself from retaliating, though fantasizing helps.

Keep posting on here. It helps. Last week was my first week in therapy that ended without me crying! A huge step for me.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Thankyou, everyone.

But this isn't about my feelings for my ex-bf - this is about my own feelings of rejection, of having been compared and found wanting, of being inferior.

This is my childhood abuse coming up to bite me HARD.

I have no idea how to deal with it, just trust that my T will know!


It occurs to me that this kind of thing may be why some of us find it hard to let go of our ex - because this is not connected to him. I don't want him back, so she is meaningless to my life - but I can't stop thinking about her. I'm not even thinking of him with her - mainly just thinking of her and how perfect she must be, because she isn't me... .:P

[clairedair]

But this isn't about my feelings for my ex-bf - this is about my own feelings of rejection, of having been compared and found wanting, of being inferior.

This is my childhood abuse coming up to bite me HARD.

I have no idea how to deal with it, just trust that my T will know!

HI Escaped - it's to your credit that you are trying to look at yourself rather than ex.  I hope your T can help with this insight.  I've found that I can have insight but the next step, of using the insight to change something or move forward, is a little harder but worth it.

My ex spent several years going between me and a gf he started seeing and was serious about within weeks of our first separation.  We'd been married a while when he angrily announced one night that I 'wasn't what he'd hoped for'.  Those words have haunted me and been the driver of many of my own destructive behaviours including reconciling with him time and again because I wanted the reassurance that I was 'OK'.

The new gf seemed to be everything he had hoped for and I even nicknamed her 'Little Miss Perfect'.  However, he led us both a merry dance and then after leaving me for the last time at then end of 2012, married someone else within 8 months. 

I was so angry with the ex-gf for so long and now I realise that my anger should have been directed at him.  She was in the same position as I was. I now feel compassion for her - she waited so long for him to divorce me and he goes and marries someone else.

I am not angry with his new wife - I am worried about her.  I definitely have moments where I wonder why things are going so well with her - how he has very suddenly become someone who is healthy enough to be in a healthy marriage.  It's still the honeymoon period and time will tell but I am much more able to leave their relationships to one side and concentrate on my 'not good enough' feelings that are still strong and still deep.

I recently bought Brene Brown's audio talk "Men, Women and Worthiness - The Experience of Shame and the Power of Being Enough" and found it very helpful.  There are some posts on Taking Personal Inventory board about her books or you can also find her TED talk on youtube.

Interestingly, my mother yesterday wondered aloud how my ex could be abusive to me and OK with his new wife - I immediately disappeared down the drain of shame!  Fortunately, I was able to fight the feelings and recover but it just demonstrated yet again the power of those childhood messages/feelings.

take care,

Claire

[starshine]

My replacement was a woman I had considered a friend for 14 years.  We weren't besties, by any means, but she owned the shop a couple doors down from where I worked for 14 years.  I spent countless break times shooting the s**t with her.  She was the friend I sent a FB message to 8 days after uBPDexbf broke up with me, asking her if she had any idea why he was being so cruel to me.  She never responded, but he sent me a FB message the next day telling me that he and she were already in a relationship for almost a week.  WHOA!  He broke up with me days before our 5th anniversary.

I was obsessed with her.  She is older, fatter, grayer, and a severe practicing alcoholic.  Her husband cheated on her with her very best friend.  I never saw it coming from her.  I believe she loved the thought that she was going to get "my" house, giving people tours and showing of the details that were mine.  We are both gardeners to the max,she professionally, and I had a very extensive garden that was on a bike path in a historic neighborhood.  I was able, with the help of 13 friends, to remove every single living thing from that yard in the 3 hour time limit he gave me.  When she saw "his" yard with no garden she left me the most amazingly vile message on my phone.  Its so crazy and hurtful- and neither of them thought they did any thing wrong?   

He dumped her 9 months later, on her 50th birthday.  The guy has got style!

I have been NC with both of them, and their entire social circles.  Super not interested in being reminded of the deep betrayal.  I am so looking forward to being able to relocate in 8 months!

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

I think this explains a lot about my situation. A LOT... .

""In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone. This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.” When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it. The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame. They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment. This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split. If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love." Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning. The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline. "

"In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand. This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner. All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame. Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline. It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction.

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode. They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame. This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.


Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego. The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other. The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.” The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”

Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects. (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction. Guess who has the best chance? Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos.

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.) The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment. At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood."

" The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good. It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning. When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole.

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good. Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment. The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone.

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

Now- after reading all of this- You can’t keep going back for more trauma. Thought The trauma bond must be broken.

After we've let fantasy go- we can turn the focus to healing. It's good to wonder what our attraction must have been to this person. Whatever clues you have are generally good enough to give you reason that you’ve had experience with this type of personality before- perhaps within your family of origin.

Stop yourself from thinking that you’ve never been treated so poorly before this relationship. When you catch yourself saying you can't believe it. Stop and think. Chances are- you’ve just chosen to repress a few circumstances from childhood that were traumatic. Now the feelings are back on the surface and you’re going to have to address them.

Introspection involves a great pain. Let those feelings come up. Journal your thoughts when you feel anxious. Learn about yourself. We must address the pain from our childhood that has been left unresolved for too long. We cannot escape from pain if we are to have personal growth- and you've got to get this relationship out of the way in order to get at the real hurt.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn’t you- it was what *you wanted others to give to you* It was <<Understanding.>>

Try to give that to yourself."

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

"Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole.

At this point, both parties feel like failures."

And whilst my ex-bf is hiding and disguising his perceived failure by throwing himself into his new relationship, I am tackling mine and facing up to it with therapy.

A friend pointed out that these terrible crushing feelings of failing, inadequacy, certainty that she is The Perfect Girlfriend, have all really only started coming up in the last week and on every occasion it has been on waking - on Mon and Sat, it was within moments of waking after afternoon naps, and on Sun and today (Mon) it's been in the mornings after waking very early.

That suggests it can't really keep up its power as an idea, in my conscious waking, increasingly-healthy mind, and so it comes out in my sleeping mind. That is progress already... .

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

That long, useful quotation is from Samthewiss in Reply 2 and 3 in this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211683.0

Possibly the most useful thing I've read, and in here I've read an awful lot of useful things!

[clairedair]

Escaped - thanks for posting the long quote. 

I realise more and more recently that there are many things that I have read over the years that are only now making real sense in my own life.  I've read this post before but because I had a good childhood with a large family and friends, I never thought of myself as 'lonely'.  However, today when I read this post, I had a very strong image of myself going off on long walks by myself to escape the noise and busy-ness of our home.  I had very loving parents, however, I needed more attention; more 'one-to-one'.  I learned to self-soothe early on and it was something my ex found difficult - I think he wanted me to need him more.

My ex could give me attention in spades and this no doubt filled a need in me.  I loved that feeling and still miss it.

Sometimes I am jealous of his new wife - that she's the one being 'love-bombed' now, however, these feelings quickly turn to worry for her.  He can turn his attention on and off in an instant and the times when he was silent/withdrawing affection were horrendous.

And whilst my ex-bf is hiding and disguising his perceived failure by throwing himself into his new relationship, I am tackling mine and facing up to it with therapy.

The 'lonely child' is understanding driven - it sounds as if you are now trying to concentrate on understanding yourself and your needs, rather than doing this for someone else.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

My ex could give me attention in spades and this no doubt filled a need in me.  I loved that feeling and still miss it.

Sometimes I am jealous of his new wife - that she's the one being 'love-bombed' now, however, these feelings quickly turn to worry for her.  He can turn his attention on and off in an instant and the times when he was silent/withdrawing affection were horrendous.

Yes, I have times when I feel very sorry for my Replacement - my ex-bf got to know her through someone we all met about 20 years ago, who became best friends with my Replacement. The few conversations I've had with this mutual friend are worrying, as she describes my Replacement as having never had a relationship in the twenty years they've been friends, living in an immaculate minimalist aprtment with serious control and OCD issues when the friend tried to stay there to visit, having few friends and being very controlling about contact with them - in other words, my Replacement clearly has some major issues with interpersonal relationships and emotions and control... .and before I blocked everyone concerned, there were signs already that my ex was starting to control her behaviour and responses.

He may currently be thriving on the attention from what seems to be a volatile off/on/off/on relationship already, but it won't be long before the attention of constant rows proves not enough for one or other of them.

Plus six weeks after I started No Contact, with only two contacts from me during that period, he has contacted me almost every week, including last Monday, trying to re-engage me in dialogue, suggesting he is trying to re-engage me so presumably is no longer in idealisation with her. Although I stupidly looked today and saw her commenting excitedly about looking forward to her trip to England. So still ongoing, obviously.

I sent the mutual friend a brief description of the route of our 15 month relationship, with the Red Flags I didn't see, saying I thought there was no point trying to warn my Replacement because I know I certainly wouldn't have listened, but at least if MF knew, she could stand by to help her friend when it does crash down.

And whilst my ex-bf is hiding and disguising his perceived failure by throwing himself into his new relationship, I am tackling mine and facing up to it with therapy.

The 'lonely child' is understanding driven - it sounds as if you are now trying to concentrate on understanding yourself and your needs, rather than doing this for someone else.

Yes, I am. He so wanted "only to be a force for good" in my life - he kept warning me, I now realise, he kept trying to stop us becoming a couple from the start, although not in an effective way - he was so loving and attentive and supportive and affecitonate, but would intermittently say "we can't do this - I will end up hurting you and I can't stand the thought of being the cause of hurt to you - if you were just some woman, it wouldn't matter, but this is YOU, this is you and I've cared ever since we met twenty years ago, I've never stopped caring so much about you - I can't bear to end up hurting you" and I just thought he was saying how strong his feelings for me were.

I didn't realise he was saying: I don't understand why, but I know that every time I care about someone I hurt them terribly, and you matter more to me than most and have done all my adult life and please please run away from me for your own sake.

Unlike others, I did have sincere apologies. Months of them. In detail. Extremely miserable and sincere and genuine ones. And he even tried hard to change his behaviour, and was reliable for some weeks, but couldn't sustain it.

Anyway... .ironically, as he always wanted to be that force for good in my life, he has been - he's given me this one last, astounding gift - self-knowledge and self-love... .

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

I posted this is Samthewiss's thread, but will repost it here in case it helps anyone in the future reading through this one

"That long quote is helping me more and more, the more I re-read it.

I've been wrestling with the conviction that my Replacement is "perfect" and I am all that is not perfect... .

But now I read this, it makes it clear to me that the only thing that is "perfect" is the combination of my own damage from childhood, and my ex-bf's damage from childhood making us in combination "the perfect storm".

Somehow that makes it a LOT easier to accept and feel ok about.

There wasn't a thing in that long quote that wasn't part of our 15 month pattern of behaviour, his AND mine. Not a thing. And my T agrees (I emailed it to him).

Which makes me feel that, once we entered into a relationship, neither of us had the self-awareness to have behaved in ANY OTHER WAY but how it played out. We would ALWAYS have hurt each other this much, no matter how many times we tried to make it work.

Now I have some self-awareness, and can gain more and more, so that I never end up in a similar situation of inevitable hurt.

My ex, poor tormented soul, can only watch in bewildered horror as he repeats it again and again... ."

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Incidentally, as I realise better the horrific guilt the BPD lives with, I realise that some of the things said to me were not exaggeration - when we first met at uni twenty years ago, there was a time he went to see me at my room - I was out but some drunk pals of his came up and for "a joke" they trashed my room a little bit (not badly) after he'd left his note for me - they were stupid young drunk guys who thought it would be funny for me to blame him for it. Which I did, stormed into the union bar and blazed away at him for it.

He told me he had never forgiven himself for not realising they would go abck after he left and do something stupid, and he said he had been feeling really guilty for twenty years over it, and that he had always felt so awful about it.

I thought at the time how ridiculous that was, but the more I read about how extreme the BPD's guilt and shame are, the more it actually starts to sound like a believable description. For twenty years, maybe whenever he did anything new to feel guilty about or if something reminded him of me, the guilt came flooding back over a trivial incident.

God only knows how he will feel about the last few months... .I may nearly have been destroyed by it, but I think he has probably suffered more.

[Daisy 4Me]

I posted this is Samthewiss's thread, but will repost it here in case it helps anyone in the future reading through this one

"That long quote is helping me more and more, the more I re-read it.

I've been wrestling with the conviction that my Replacement is "perfect" and I am all that is not perfect... .

But now I read this, it makes it clear to me that the only thing that is "perfect" is the combination of my own damage from childhood, and my ex-bf's damage from childhood making us in combination "the perfect storm".

Somehow that makes it a LOT easier to accept and feel ok about.

There wasn't a thing in that long quote that wasn't part of our 15 month pattern of behaviour, his AND mine. Not a thing. And my T agrees (I emailed it to him).

Escaped,

Those words helped me too. They were actually written by a former member who went by the name "2010". She used to post a lot on here up until last year and I guess she's moved on since then. When I first joined this board a couple of years ago, her words helped me tremendously. I come back here to read them again from time to time. You can find them by searching for her name. There is plenty of great stuff to read. I think she is now a therapist.

Daisy

[Oliolioxenfree]

Escaped,

I went through something similar after I was discarded.  I wondered if he had found the perfect girlfriend then questioned everything because he was still blatantly stalking me.  Why would he be stalking me and checking up when he was soo happy with my replacement?

And then I realized.

This is part of the disorder.  Its not about the replacement being perfect. or us being less than becausefor a spell we are all perfect to them, until we trigger them.  Then we are discarded.  But since they dont fully process and this is an attachment disorder, they never fully disconnect from the previous relationship.  This is common.  They stalk after the discard or theyll continue to reach out.  Its the ultimate ego stroke to them... because if s new woan wants them then they cant be that bad, and if you still engage then they feel better about themselves for treating you like yesterdays garbage.  But deep down they have no real connection or loyalty to ANYONE.

Remember that no matter what disorder or not that 1. people who leave the ones they supposedly love because they are not willing to work on the relationship arent worth your time 2.  if you are left for another who they just met, they are definitely not worth your time.  3. They dont learn anything from their relationships and its nearly a guarantee that somewhere down the road, maybe not today, maybe not next week, maybe not next year, but that person WILL be treated in the EXACT same manner... as soon as they trigger them.

Its not about you, or the new woman.  Its basically that that person was there, and unfortunately may have her own issues that allows her to overlook red flags.  She is not better than you so dont let the idea of her being the perfect girlfriend devalue you or your worth.  Its your ex being disordered and we are all victims, until we kick their sorry a$$es to the curb

Stay strong.

You are almost there

[MAS999]

I think this explains a lot about my situation. A LOT... .

""In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone. This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.” When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it. The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame. They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment. This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split. If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love." Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning. The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline. "

"In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand. This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner. All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame. Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline. It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction.

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode. They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame. This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.


Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego. The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other. The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.” The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”



Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects. (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction. Guess who has the best chance? Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos.

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.) The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment. At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood."

" The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good. It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning. When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole.

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good. Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment. The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone.

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

Now- after reading all of this- You can’t keep going back for more trauma. Thought The trauma bond must be broken.

After we've let fantasy go- we can turn the focus to healing. It's good to wonder what our attraction must have been to this person. Whatever clues you have are generally good enough to give you reason that you’ve had experience with this type of personality before- perhaps within your family of origin.

Stop yourself from thinking that you’ve never been treated so poorly before this relationship. When you catch yourself saying you can't believe it. Stop and think. Chances are- you’ve just chosen to repress a few circumstances from childhood that were traumatic. Now the feelings are back on the surface and you’re going to have to address them.

Introspection involves a great pain. Let those feelings come up. Journal your thoughts when you feel anxious. Learn about yourself. We must address the pain from our childhood that has been left unresolved for too long. We cannot escape from pain if we are to have personal growth- and you've got to get this relationship out of the way in order to get at the real hurt.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn’t you- it was what *you wanted others to give to you* It was <<Understanding.>>

Try to give that to yourself."


Reading this was enlightening. Thank you so very much.