How long do they plan to leave before they do it?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

First of all thank you for all the kind words and support. There is a lot of wisdom in this forum. I feel stronger already.

I feel like my ex had been very distant for a long time and he was struggling to get help for awhile. But it was medication he was seeking from his doctor and whenever the doctor told him to get therapy his eyes would glaze over. It wasn't an option in his mind. But when he felt like there was no quick fix he seemed to descend into a deep dark place and never really came back.

When he left it was very sudden and unexpected. He has done it before during our 8 years together and each time he seems to jump right into a social life that seems to appear out of nowhere. I just wonder how long he was planning to leave and got things lined up. Now that I look back, it seems like he was getting things lined up for quite some time. And I was in huge denial of it.

It is almost like he was living a double life.

[Supernova9star]

First of all thank you for all the kind words and support. There is a lot of wisdom in this forum. I feel stronger already.

I feel like my ex had been very distant for a long time and he was struggling to get help for awhile. But it was medication he was seeking from his doctor and whenever the doctor told him to get therapy his eyes would glaze over. It wasn't an option in his mind. But when he felt like there was no quick fix he seemed to descend into a deep dark place and never really came back.

When he left it was very sudden and unexpected. He has done it before during our 8 years together and each time he seems to jump right into a social life that seems to appear out of nowhere. I just wonder how long he was planning to leave and got things lined up. Now that I look back, it seems like he was getting things lined up for quite some time. And I was in huge denial of it.

It is almost like he was living a double life.

[Ironmanrises]

The day... .

That your ex... .

Was triggered... .

Into devaluation... .

Is when that started... .

Officially.

That is how it was... .

For me... .

And i clearly saw it... .

In round 2... .

Of the relationship.

I was present... .

In her house... .

The day she got triggered.

And i saw... .

Her mentally... .

Vacate.

Starting that awful day.

I saw her... .

Recoil... .

From me.

Literally.

And... .

From that day... .

Till discard... .

Her behavior... .

Towards me... .

Was... .

Hell on earth.

[imstronghere2]

I can look back and see the signs of my exwBPD planning the exit about 2 years before she actually pulled the trigger.  They were very subtle but they were there.  And of course, I chose to ignore it all.  Complete denial.  After it actually happened though, our daughter (18) said to me ":)ad, Mom planned it like this", and even with that I still refused to accept it until the reality of the situation made it too obvious to ignore any longer.  And to think that during the few months before the exit I truly felt like I had a wife again, after all the years of her being disconnected. 

Amazing how we can become conditioned to accept so much abuse that when we're given just the slightest amount of re-validation, we revel in it with complete disregard for everything else. 

Wow.  They are masters at their trade.  That's for sure.

[fiddlestix]

Wow!  Imstrong... .your wife sounds like mine.  Your daughter sounds wise like mine, too.  My ex w receded into a life of drugs, booze, immature parties... .for a couple years before it ended.  One night she said she was planning to get her own place "when she had enough money."  She uttered that phrase for a few months.  But she also talked about helping our son buy a car, helping him with school... .  I wondered if she really meant to move out at all, since she had all kinds of plans for the "money she was going to save up."  Then she told me she didn't want to move out, that she thought she had messed up so bad that I was done with her anyway.  So we agreed she would stay and we would live "one day at a time." 

Well, her "one day (s) at a time" were filled with her sneaking around with her druggie, ex-con boyfriend, screwing him in his low-income government apartment, and treating me like a fool.  Then, when I caught them,  she said she wanted out, again, when she had enough money.  I said, "Nope. You can go now, tonight. Go stay with your drug buddy."  She did.  That was in May of 2012.  She tried to recycle me in May of 2013... .but that failed... .she tossed me overboard for a boy toy... .broke my heart ... .again... .sigh.

Anyway, I don't know how well she planned anything. Then, or now.

Fiddlestix

[cooper8675]

Supernova9star

  I think my BPDex always had things in place just in case 24/7.  It seemed he had no shortage of women all just for the purpose of feeding his ego.  When I would ask what was happening or question why he was having constant contact he would lie. Or if I would ask him to stop contact with women he had lied to me about it was a major argument. I just know they were always there in the background ready for him if he decided to leave... .and that's exactly where he ran when I left... .not even 24 hours later.  It was like he had this other life with other women waiting on him the whole time.  One foot out the door.

  I think my BPDex NEEDS to have backup plans at all times. Abandonment is their fear but also their self fulfilling prophecy.

[thisyoungdad]

I believe my ex had an escape plan from the start. She was always saying, after her previous relationship that exploded due to her BPD (and not what I was told) that we could be together one day at a time so long as it was healthy... .which even then I thought was weird but now I look back and almost laugh because our relationship was not really ever healthy. It had moments of that but it really wasn't on either side.

All that said 8 of the 9 months we were married and together, where the months I really think she wasn't considering it. It was the best 8 months of the relationship. Long story short, something happened in early july that triggered her, big time. By mid August she was completely of the charts in crazy land and by the end of August she was gone. She came back for a while but the end of August was really when she was done despite giving the illusion she wanted to work on it, and part of me thinks she really did, she was so triggered she had one foot out the door from that point on. For her subconsciously she always had a plan but consciously I think it was very shortly before she left that she really was thinking about it. That for me makes it harder to deal with. 

[saw_tooth]

The day... .

That your ex... .

Was triggered... .

Into devaluation... .

Is when that started... .

Officially.

True that.

And i saw... .

Her mentally... .

Vacate.

Starting that awful day.

I saw her... .

Mine was staring at me with an eerie  when we last met stare,his eyes fixated on me but not responding to my movements,just an empty stare.That was when he was dissociating.The stare signified and translated into 'the end'.

[happylogist]

If you are afraid of abandonment - you prepare your exit and a safe harbor. If you have an engulfment fear - you also have your exit ready. If you have both - then work twice as hard to have somewhere to run away and receive care. This is the logic behind. I do not think it is conscious though.  In BPD mind, it is mixed up with feeling empty, guilty, worthless, needing people around who would also give the positive validation and also being afraid and craving at the same time so much intimacy.

My ex told me once that he had to hurt people (read make them either to abandon him or leave himself) when they got too close to him. He was actually blaming them, including me,  for getting too close. But he hated loneliness with every cell of his body. He even told me a couple of times that being in a social setting and then being at home alone - makes him feel like coming off drugs. This is why he needed to have a line-up of potential caretakers. 

[Bananas]

After the fact I found out that my ex was living a double, perhaps triple life. 

One foot in the relationship and one foot out. 

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Ditto! Double life. I just found out a couple days ago that my ex was seeing someone at work while seeing me at the same time. They work 10 minutes from his place now I'm thinking her in his bed at lunch and me at night. Yuck!

[Jbt857]

Ditto! Double life. I just found out a couple days ago that my ex was seeing someone at work while seeing me at the same time. They work 10 minutes from his place now I'm thinking her in his bed at lunch and me at night. Yuck!

Wow, IWalk - that must be tough to discover. But not uncommon.

Sorry to hear that happened. 

[maxen]

this is illuminating. during the hour in which she left me, my wife said "i always thought you would be the one to leave." but i never would have left. she didn't spend much time on it, she was emotionally gone in a few weeks and physically gone in a few more.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Ditto! Double life. I just found out a couple days ago that my ex was seeing someone at work while seeing me at the same time. They work 10 minutes from his place now I'm thinking her in his bed at lunch and me at night. Yuck!

Wow, IWalk - that must be tough to discover. But not uncommon.

Sorry to hear that happened. 

Thank you jbt857

I really appreciate your compassion in saying that. I think I am lucky I found it out 3 mo out or I would be even more devastated. I mean i knew he left me for her but had no idea it was going on during. He of course lied that he was even leaving me for her and made me out to be crazy and jealous for even thinking it. He attributed the break up to my jealousy thinking he would do anything and I'm hard to get along with even though I walked on eggshells.  I don't think it has actually sunk in yet though the level of betray and bold face lies I lived through everyday not even knowing.

I know it is not uncommon so it is nice to get some validation that it is bad. I am surprised sometimes even with some people that care about me the lack of outrage.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

The conclusion that I have come to is not when they decide to leave. I believe now it is a foregone conclusion from the get go they will leave. It is only a matter of when they will pull the trigger and that is when they have sucked you dry, validation is not fulfilling anymore, you start asking more questions and somebody else is securely on the hook.

My ex during rages at times would scream I am definitely going to leave you at some point. How, tell me how! I could I have not said get lost right at that very moment? They are good! Very good. And we are hooked like a drug. I don't know... .I'm sure here are other reasons too.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Oh and as far as picking when. My ex waited for my birthday where we had planned to go away together. I moved my stuff out of his place alone on my birthday. He was looking for maximum pain to inflict.

[maxen]

I know it is not uncommon so it is nice to get some validation that it is bad. I am surprised sometimes even with some people that care about me the lack of outrage.

i am completely in sympathy, Iwalk. it is bad, it is outrageous. it's simply horrible.

[Jbt857]

Ditto! Double life. I just found out a couple days ago that my ex was seeing someone at work while seeing me at the same time. They work 10 minutes from his place now I'm thinking her in his bed at lunch and me at night. Yuck!

Wow, IWalk - that must be tough to discover. But not uncommon.

Sorry to hear that happened. 

Thank you jbt857

I really appreciate your compassion in saying that. I think I am lucky I found it out 3 mo out or I would be even more devastated. I mean i knew he left me for her but had no idea it was going on during. He of course lied that he was even leaving me for her and made me out to be crazy and jealous for even thinking it. He attributed the break up to my jealousy thinking he would do anything and I'm hard to get along with even though I walked on eggshells.  I don't think it has actually sunk in yet though the level of betray and bold face lies I lived through everyday not even knowing.

I know it is not uncommon so it is nice to get some validation that it is bad. I am surprised sometimes even with some people that care about me the lack of outrage.

Yeah, on reflection, I am sure my BPDexh probably cheated on me more than the one time I knew about for sure. I'm kinda glad I don't know all the gory details. It's hard enough as it is, knowing he's moved on so soon and so seemingly easily. (The reality probably isn't so peachy as I imagine it to be).

The truth is that decent human beings don't cheat. They are committed, and if a relationship isn't working, they end it. Then move on. Those with BPD can't be without someone to self-soothe with.

Generally, I don't think many can understand BPD and how traumatic the aftermath they leave is.

You're not alone.  

[imstronghere2]

Generally, I don't think many can understand BPD and how traumatic the aftermath they leave is.

No, not very many can understand.  This is something that has to be experienced to get the full affect of.  Not something I would recommend as a "life learning lesson".   LOL

Heh, I can still find some humor in this.  Go figure.   

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Thanks Maxen and jbt, I am very grateful for you all.

Oh and just one more thing to get off my chest. On out last night together what precipitated his last rage and abrupt discard. He had the Gaul to be showing me a picture of her on his phone.  Some bells went off in my head that something didn't seem right so I kind of brushed it off like I wasn't interested in seeing it. He kept shoving it in my face. He went ballistic saying I was jealous and insecure.

I mean he was flaunting the person to me he was cheating with and trying to get a reaction out of me. How sick and cruel is that. I think he is more of a narc.

[Jbt857]

Mine was BPD and NPD - welcome to my world!

[BlushAndBashful]

We had many recycles, both before and after our marriage. Most of the time, he "planned" to leave by not getting too involved or making solid plans. He could always bail on a moment's notice and not be out anything.

I'm pretty sure he was planning for our divorce while I was still planning our wedding (which HE wanted, HE pushed for, and HE insisted on). He kept agreeing to put things in the pre-nup, and then changing them behind my back. Also, when he did announce he wanted a divorce, there were just too many convenient coincidences. I was totally blindsided, got one text message, and he vanished. Everyone scrambled within hours to wrap up the loose ends for him. Every trace of him was gone.

[peas]

On out last night together what precipitated his last rage and abrupt discard. He had the Gaul to be showing me a picture of her on his phone.  Some bells went off in my head that something didn't seem right so I kind of brushed it off like I wasn't interested in seeing it. He kept shoving it in my face. He went ballistic saying I was jealous and insecure.

I mean he was flaunting the person to me he was cheating with and trying to get a reaction out of me. How sick and cruel is that. I think he is more of a narc.

Wow. Almost identical thing happened to me on my last night with my ex. He showed me a picture of a girl scantily clad on someone else's cell phone and he shoves it in my face and makes a sexual remark. I gave him a dirty look, which ignited the argument that would be our last. He said he was sick of my jealousy and drama and that I "damaged" the r/s. Yeah, like making lewd comments about another woman to your girlfriend isn't going to upset her? My ex knew what he was doing (even though he was drunk). He was looking for a fight and saying shocking stuff to turn me off and get me out of his life forever. It worked.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Wow peas. That is so similar. It is amazing how cruel they can be and add insult to injury try to make it our fault. Twisted. Not that I wish this treatment on anyone it is helpful to hear that others have experienced these things because sometimes you can feel like your the only one who gets treated this way. Even though you intellectually know it's them and they are sick it still gets to you.

[peas]

It totally gets to you. They go right for the tender spots. For all their clumsy, dysfunctional thinking, they have an uncanny ability to know exactly how to hurt us. I have never before this guy been so degraded verbally and emotionally in a r/s.

[crazytrain2]

I think there is an interesting statement in a post from a member called "Magick".  I've been a long time 'lurker' on the site and copied it just for future reference.  I am new so can not see all of his posts, but he seemed to have keen insight and probably education surrounding this. Even if you don't read the entire post, those of us who have experience and have some road behind us can clearly see... they were probably planning it from the beginning... .because they expect everyone will leave.

--------------------------------------------------

Quote (original):

Second. I noted in my opening screed my BPD mate's starting a serious relationship within days after our breakup. Indeed, she tried to start another 18 months ago when we were going through a rocky time.

----

Magick's Response:

Feeling I know enough I could probably write a book on the topic, I'll admit that while I understand the psychology behind this behavior, it's still one of the most difficult parts for any SO to deal with because that behavior naturally causes us to question the validity of any love/affection in the relationship they had with us.

Prior to dating, a friend of mine asked my now exBPD why she always needed to be dating someone and she replied that she didn't know why she did it, but she felt she had to do it. While we were together, she'd often tell me that she had difficulties being alone; just in general. She didn't like being in the house alone - or single. And no different than many other people, mine was with a different guy just days after we split.

As Clearmind said, someone suffering with BPD typically feels an emptiness inside; literally like they are hollow with this void inside of them. Relationships appear to help temporarily distract them from feeling this because they can adopt an identity based on their partner and gain a false sense of purpose due to the relationship.

The common breakup is either:

1. The person with BPD becomes dysregulated, abandonment fears are triggered and they end the current relationship - either outright or via self-sabotage (either way, it's because they believe their partner will leave them so they act first).

2. The SO of someone with BPD recognizes the dysfunction within the relationship and they end it. (but often #1 happens because the pwBPD already predicted this moment well before the relationship started).

My own research into the topic has suggested that if someone with BPD is abandoned first, they appear less likely to instantly begin a new relationship and will often try to win the partner back for a period of time first. If they do the abandoning, data suggests they are much more likely to form a new relationship in a very quick period (often having a new potential partner picked out before they actually end things with the former).

That seems incredibly cold to anyone with a healthier concept of love and there are other disorders where this same behavior is indeed cold, done by people with no capacity for empathy, who also used the person as a supply and nothing more. That's typically not the case with BPD.

If they are splitting their former partner to an evil person, then yes, it's possible some of their actions serve as a maladaptive coping mechanism and also a way to communicate pain by being hurtful or punishing towards that former partner.

But really, that relationship hopping behavior serves two purposes:

1. It prevents them from having to deal/cope with the emotions from whatever occurred in the previous relationship (they are hurting, they lost someone they did love - even if that form of love isn't the mature form an SO would expect) and

2. It provides a new source of attention/affection (because after a breakup, someone who constantly feels unlovable is certainly looking for someone to make them feel loveable - even if it's temporary).

If that replacement relationship ends or begins to have problems, depending on the pwBPD's current view of a former partner they may have reflected on what occurred and may contact that former partner in preparation to once again bounce out of their current relationship and into a new one (which would be back to a former partner).

Of course, this is an endless cycle because all of it is done to avoid dealing with the emotions that they need to be address rather than hide or run from. But that cannot happen without them being taught more effective methods to cope with those emotions and great effort on their part to take control of their reactions to those difficult emotions.

I hope that explanation helps you.

[Supernova9star]

Oh and as far as picking when. My ex waited for my birthday where we had planned to go away together. I moved my stuff out of his place alone on my birthday. He was looking for maximum pain to inflict.

Ohhh Iwalk... .I'm so sorry. I can relate. I just bought a house with my inheritance from my father passing away last year. It was to be our first home. He left the weekend we were supposed to move. I moved alone. It really is selfish how they strike you when you are so vulnerable.

[Supernova9star]

I hope that explanation helps you.[/color]

Yes crazytrain... .this helped me a lot. Thank you for that.

I think I am blaming myself a lot for him leaving me because I feel that as time went on I tried harder and harder to make things right. But he became more and more disenchanted with me. So I feel that I drove him away. He would be so angry with me because I couldn't let go or "forgive" him for all the lies and abuse. Maybe that is what made him think I would eventually leave.

[crazytrain2]

I know... .I felt that way too. The more I poured in, the less he gave a damn.  Another post I read a long time ago was about reframing.  Someone actuall said this to a therapist, and the T came back and said... ."no the less he gave the more you tried".

Chicken and egg?

This is a huge destructive feedback loop. They know that know one would put up with what we did... so they expect a person with self respect to walk away (i.e. they expect us to leave).  They dread that outcome, yet they anticipate it and feel compelled to make it happen.

So when we don't walk away, there may be a little bit of relief... and they got to wipe their bad feelings onto their favorite doormat (us), but also there is a gradual erosion of respect. No one would or should stand for assly behavior.  They sure as heck wouldn't!  So if we didn't respect ourselves enough to leave... .why should they?

Sadly, they will keep upping the ante until someone's back breaks.  Either they are disgusted with us for staying through it all because we are so spineless... .or we can not take it anymore and walk (run) away.

The end was always written... .so they are usually anticipating/ planning the exit.

[SeekerofTruth]

Very good and insightful board.

Not sure, but it was in the making.  Proably during the hating phases 6 months prior ... .and voom with a vengence; only to reconsider 48 hours later.

The thing is... .while we were in marriage counseling, after she stopped hiding on the couch inside session and actually started to engage and expose some of her vulnerabilities she'd start up with the threats of divorce.  Once while seeing the therapist I asked "so what do you make of the constant threats about divorce" and he responded with "oh you mean when she gets upset and says she wants a divorce?" and he said it in a tone like, yeah no big deal she says it but just out of anger as a way of coping.  Of course the impact it was having upon me was troubling.  And low and behold (i pushed her?) when she got really angry enough... .she retained an adversaril atty (versus our agreement to go the route of mediation if marriage counseling wasn't going to work), had hired movers for the next week, and had for months updating her intended place of relocation.  And i like an idiot/fool helped with the moving and subsequent updating continuation putting her needs ahead of mine, while attempting to give her a disconfirming experience that i was not this sociopath she had made me out to be.

[happylogist]

The common breakup is either:

1. The person with BPD becomes dysregulated, abandonment fears are triggered and they end the current relationship - either outright or via self-sabotage (either way, it's because they believe their partner will leave them so they act first).

2. The SO of someone with BPD recognizes the dysfunction within the relationship and they end it. (but often #1 happens because the pwBPD already predicted this moment well before the relationship started).

My own research into the topic has suggested that if someone with BPD is abandoned first, they appear less likely to instantly begin a new relationship and will often try to win the partner back for a period of time first. If they do the abandoning, data suggests they are much more likely to form a new relationship in a very quick period (often having a new potential partner picked out before they actually end things with the former).

Absolutely true! I also believe that this is how it works in the most of the cases.