Stressful times and the "new" me

[allibaba]

This is presuming of course that the outburst are not physical, or directed at the kids and are lessoning compared to what they used to be. ie things are getting better.

This is the case around my son. 

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[allibaba]

The last couple of days have pretty tough.  Pretty much been one steady dyregulation after another.  Last night he triggered for the first time at night in a long time.  I had made meatloaf for dinner (checked with him before doing it) and then right before dinner he said I'm not eating the dinner you made because the onions and garlic are going to make me sick.  I said "gosh that's frustrating because I had consulted you on dinner beforehand"  he went into a speech about how I should try living in his shoes and being him for 5 minutes because I wouldn't be able to handle it and basically said it made him angry that I was frustrated with the situation because it was far worse to be in his shoes.

I validated but he flew off the emotional cliff (nothing abusive - just the YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT me stuff).  I walked away because even me being there was a trigger but that seemed to make him more angry.  He said that each time I disrespect him by ignoring his needs - he dies a little more inside.  I said 'it must be really hard feeling that way.'  And he went into - someday I will walk out and never come back.

He started to raise his voice and I said 'you're scaring me and if you aren't careful you will scare our son.'  He told me that he'd 'show me' and then said 'I am going to cut [my new jacket in half as in my husband's own jacket] and show you.'  I just walked away and then he pretended to destroy his jacket and talked about how he had destroyed it and then went downstairs to hide.

This morning he was dyregulated as well.  He just has nothing to focus on but the hate for himself right now.

If unaddressed he will slide into a mess so I think that I have to say something to him about finding something to be involved in or maybe taking some time to go home because I'm not going to expose our son to this on a daily basis.

[KateCat]

Hooray, hero mom!

I agree with your husband that it's really, really tough to be "them." I have no clue how my father endured the misery that was his emotional life. But I do know that he wasn't able to do it without cost to his children. It's the saddest situation ever. :'(

[waverider]

You are doing well and supporting him to find a new outlet to occupy his mind is right,but ultimately you can't make him the desire has to come from himself.

Sounds like his dysrelating is more acting in than it used to. The less he is directing it solely at you, the less you will react badly and the more genuinely supportive you can be. It is progress in the right direction, albeit slowly.

How does it make you feel? Is it more frustration than anger and resentment?

Does your son have any opinions on what is happening?

[allibaba]

You are doing well and supporting him to find a new outlet to occupy his mind is right,but ultimately you can't make him the desire has to come from himself.

Sounds like his dysrelating is more acting in than it used to. The less he is directing it solely at you, the less you will react badly and the more genuinely supportive you can be. It is progress in the right direction, albeit slowly.

How does it make you feel? Is it more frustration than anger and resentment?

Does your son have any opinions on what is happening?

Hi Waverider,

Yes even though he is dyregulating quite regularly at the moment, I do see less of the dyregulations aimed at me (at least for the moment).  Yesterday he flew into a tirade and shut himself in our room.  I could hear him talking loudly to himself but not to me or our son and he was far enough away neither of us could hear what he was saying. 

My son can tell that daddy is out of sorts at the moment.  When my husband starts to dyregulate he sort of tip toes away and then you hear his start up a game or playing in another room.  I think that he is mimicking my behavior (quiet escape and then trying to shake off the negative cloud of emotional by distracting myself with something fun).  I am worried that he had picked up on a particular swear word that my husband uses a lot when he's not in a good spot.  We are ignoring that word for the moment and my husband says that he needs to make a concerted effort to not 'bare his @ss in front of our son' because he recognizes that it isn't healthy.

So far there are less rages in this period and there is significantly less verbal and emotional abuse than previous stressful periods.  This morning I got out of the house with two negative comments (both about my choice of what to wear to work).  Nothing abusive was said so I think that mostly I have to move on and disconnect.  Sure I would like my husband to be proud and supportive as I am on my way out the door, but that is not my reality at the moment.

I am mostly frustrated and a bit sad (not angry or resentful) because I know exactly what he needs to do to get employed (source of much of his frustrations) but his anxiety is virtually debilitating and I have offered help but is was declined.  I know that he has to do this himself and I have moments of real fear (will he go over an edge and not come back).  I am trying to embrace it for what it is and keep trudging along.  I suggested some alternative therapy yesterday which might help him and was told point blank that he's not interested.  He's focused on pulling himself out of this rut mostly alone and that is scary at times.

The fear that I am experiencing has manifested itself in nightmares of his rages and in each of those nightmares I calmly enforce boundaries and walk away while he screams for me to come back.

He has mentioned going home a few times and I think that would be good right now.  We still have quite a bit of stuff that needs to be done around the house to get ready for winter and on 'good days' he focuses on that and he's not dyregulated.

[KateCat]

This really does seem to be a "new you," allibaba. The sage observation from emeritus advisor unitedfornow that "nothing changes without  changes" is playing itself out, isn't it? It's got to be scary that there's no way of knowing all the changes to come. You must feel it, though--that you are now marching down the solid path toward stability for yourself and for your son.

And maybe even for your husband, as painful as it is for him at this time of self-doubt.

(I can't help but feel amused recognition about your son's precocious knowledge of swear words. I think my mom got a huge shock back around 1957 from a report on my unusual vocabulary after I had a first playdate with one of the daughters of a neighboring Catholic family. On the plus side, much later than that, I scored in the 98th percentile on the "verbal" portion of the GRE exam. And I don't even think there was a section on "cursing like a sailor." )

[allibaba]

This really does seem to be a "new you," allibaba. The sage observation from emeritus advisor unitedfornow that "nothing changes without  changes" is playing itself out, isn't it? It's got to be scary that there's no way of knowing all the changes to come. You must feel it, though--that you are now marching down the solid path toward stability for yourself and for your son.

And maybe even for your husband, as painful as it is for him at this time of self-doubt.

(I can't help but feel amused recognition about your son's precocious knowledge of swear words. I think my mom got a huge shock back around 1957 from a report on my unusual vocabulary after I had a first playdate with one of the daughters of a neighboring Catholic family. On the plus side, much later than that, I scored in the 98th percentile on the "verbal" portion of the GRE exam. And I don't even think there was a section on "cursing like a sailor." )

Hi KateCat,

Thanks for the little chuckle on swear words.  In a way, I am glad that at 18 months my son is mimicking his dad's language because he is like a mirror for my husband.  I don't like it but I think that the healthier that my husband gets now, the less issues we'll have with our son down the road.  You can easily 'unteach' swear words at this early stage because they don't mean anything to a toddler.  Even though it is painful for my husband to see, my husband is a good man and its better that he see the raw impacts of his behavior as that may be a catalyst to get him past his own self-hate into action.

I think that the fear is certainly tied to having no control of the outcome of this journey and the clear knowledge that my husband has to make his own choices.  The self-doubt is the internal pull that wants me to go into full blown crisis aversion mode (scurrying around, panicking, trying to find him work, trying to sooth him and make him 'happy'when I know that only my husband can walk his own path and doing these things will keep him from taking his own action.

I do feel that I am gaining traction on this 'road to recovery' and my son and I will experience more stability.

At this point I am doing what is right for us and I am praying for my husband to find his way

[KateCat]

I know that only my husband can walk his own path . . .

I think Marsha Linehan, the pioneering developer of DBT therapy (and a recovered borderline herself) reminds everyone that adults get to choose their actions for themselves, even if the choice includes refusing therapy. And I think she adds, "Sorry!"

(Kids' words are so revealing. The first time I met my then-six-year-old niece in person, it was at her family's lovely lakeside home in Stamford, Connecticut. Instead of saying things like "This is crap!" like I did at that age, the first thing this little girl said to me was, "I'm having lunch at my friend's club today." And then I too was a bit dumbstruck at the things that emerge from the mouths of babes.)

[waverider]

I think you are just witnessing the necessary journey a person with this disorder needs to go through on their journey to self improvement.

You have effectively cut off projection as a means of effective soothing, or buck passing. At first this will result in a new type of dysregulation by bottling it up with themselves, so yes this can create more frequent stress with non of the usual outlet available. They are forced to acknowledge the severity of their problems. Starting to acknowledge the collateral damage, in this case on your son, is also self awareness.

At first it is natural for then to try to "go it alone". Until they have exhausted this option they wont turn to outside help, or at least with enough commitment to stick at it.

Focus mainly on not being drawn into unnecessarily conflict as that just becomes a distraction and an avenue to regress into projection and avoidance of their real issues.

[allibaba]

Waverider,

I think you are just witnessing the necessary journey a person with this disorder needs to go through on their journey to self improvement.

I really needed this reminder last night.  It was timely.  Thank you.  He spent the entire day laying on the couch depressed yesterday.  Normally this happens after he rages at me.  This time he didn't rage he went straight to stage 2 (I hate myself, I hate my life).

You have effectively cut off projection as a means of effective soothing, or buck passing. At first this will result in a new type of dysregulation by bottling it up with themselves, so yes this can create more frequent stress with non of the usual outlet available.

YES!  I see this clearly.  Yesterday he broke his own mobile phone.  I did not even ask about why or how and I did not offer to go get him a new one.  None of our situations in the past 3 days have been aggression towards me and the moments that they were I just would not accept it.  I would not accept responsibility where it was not mine.  This morning he tried to tell me that he will never find a 'real' job because I am terrible at supporting him because I didn't buy his cereal yesterday and I don't keep enough food in the house.

I replied 'I am really sorry to hear that you feel that way, but you have a car and money you can either go to the grocery store if the food that I am buying is not adequate.  If you know that we are out of something, I will be happy to pick it up for you.  Just give me a call and ask me to go get it.   I thought that he was going to EXPLODE he was so mad.  He went into our bedroom and started screaming "I hate you.  I f hate you."  Note:  he walked away from me to lose it.  This is progress.

The other day when he flipped out about the milk and I told him that I would only take 50% responsibility for the milk being empty because there are 2 adults in the house... .well guess what... .he started filling the milk container for the first time in our marriage.  Woo hoo.

They are forced to acknowledge the severity of their problems. Starting to acknowledge the collateral damage, in this case on your son, is also self awareness.

At first it is natural for then to try to "go it alone". Until they have exhausted this option they wont turn to outside help, or at least with enough commitment to stick at it.

Focus mainly on not being drawn into unnecessarily conflict as that just becomes a distraction and an avenue to regress into projection and avoidance of their real issues.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  This is a scary time for me and I appreciate this very much.

[KateCat]

OK, now this is really, really reminding me of Steph's postings of her husband's journey to therapy.

It's been a while since I've read her story, but as I recall, her husband was/is a very, very high functioning person in his professional life. Prominent in his field. He had also come to a point where he was clearly self-harming: hurling himself out of cars, attempting suicide, etc. Self harming stuff reminiscent of that of teenage girls with BPD.

And here's the astounding part, at least to me. He somehow mustered the determination and self-acceptance to attend months and even years, I think, of DBT training. And also the courage to be one of a group of DBT patients, doing DBT group work. And these other people in his group were indeed mostly female.

According to Steph, her husband was truly BPD. BPD without additional comorbidities. (No sex addiction, for instance. And no alcoholism, at least as far as I recall.) According to Steph, he is completely recovered, following his total commitment to therapy. And, yes, following a significant period of therapeutic separation for the two of them.

Some people on this forum have commented that the one truly convincing tale of "recovery" in this online community is the story of Steph and her husband. It's well worth exploring, as your husband seems to have come commonalities with hers.

I know you can't make him do it, and I know you probably can't even show him the "Steph example" directly. 

[allibaba]

According to Steph, her husband was truly BPD. BPD without additional comorbidities. (No sex addiction, for instance. And no alcoholism, at least as far as I recall.) According to Steph, he is completely recovered, following his total commitment to therapy. And, yes, following a significant period of therapeutic separation for the two of them.

I know you can't make him do it, and I know you probably can't even show him the "Steph example" directly. 

My husband does have some co-morbidity (he is probably slightly bipolar, definitely OCD but minor as a coping mechanism, and some anxiety).  I do think that he is an excellent candidate for true recovery.  He is one of the STRONGEST people I know and I truly respect him as a human being despite his mental illness.  There have been so many times in my life where I have watched my husband do the right thing and thought WOW I'm not sure that I could have done that myself.  I have literally watched him put himself in physical danger to save someone else's life.  He is a truly courageous man.  Once he comes out of the current depression I am going to talk to him about treatment again.

I just got a call from my husband saying that he has decided that he will not work ever again (this is what is causing his stress) - I told him that if he changes his mind that I will be happy to support him in his search for work.  I could tell by his voice that he's been crying.  He said that he is selling our house in the Spring and moving to Costa Rica.  He said that nothing has worked out for him since his move to Canada and that he feels completely unsupported by me.  He said that I can come with him or not, that he doesn't care but that if he's going to sit around and do nothing then he's do it someplace warm where he can be happy.  He said that he never has any fun with me and that he is tired of waiting for a good life with me.

I only said "It must be really awful feeling that way" and he hung up on me.

I didn't call him back.  Obviously I am not moving to Costa Rica (changing the scene again).  I don't believe that he is really moving.  He is just trying desperately for a way out of feeling like he does.

When he comes out of this cycle I am going to let him know that:

I am behind him 100% (this weekend he shared the fear that I would leave him because of his mood swings.  I told him that I would only leave him physically if I felt like myself, our son, or the dogs were in danger.  I told him that even when he's in a bad place mentally that I consider that we are fighting the battle of his mental illness together as a team and that he is not alone.)

That I can't imagine being where he is at the moment.  That I would do anything to take away his pain but I don't have that power.

That his decision not to pursue treatment is his but that there is a 80% success rate for people that seek treatment and stick with it.  That I truly believe that our lives can be restored to sanity but that only he can make that huge step.

[allibaba]

And here's the astounding part, at least to me. He somehow mustered the determination and self-acceptance to attend months and even years, I think, of DBT training. And also the courage to be one of a group of DBT patients, doing DBT group work. And these other people in his group were indeed mostly female.

Steph's husband attended 3 years of DBT before he was 'cured of BPD'.  Part of the reason that my husband is such a good candidate for finding a program and sticking to it is that he extremely regimented.  Once he gets into a pattern and accepts that pattern and routine, he is really excellent at sticking with it.  His diabetes doctor says that in her 40 yrs of practice she has NEVER seen a diabetic with such excellent blood sugars (I was there.  I heard her.)  His Rheumatoid doctor said that he could be a 'posterchild' for recovery from this debilitating disease.  Its not my husband's first time fighting a hard battle.  He recovered from a cocaine addiction 30 yrs ago and went to university and became a productive member of society and never looked back.

I believe that for my husband to find peace he needs to regularly attend DBT, he needs to go 100% gluten free and he may need minor medication for the bipolar.  I know that none of this is cut and dry and that it would be a long and painful process but my husband has a HUGE amount of self-awareness therefore it makes him a good candidate for recovery.

[allibaba]

LIGHTBULB                    

I am going to go seek DBT therapy including biofeedback.  I will be an example to him.  It cannot hurt and knowing that I grew up in a BPD family (mom was BPD) with an alcoholic father... .I have many issues that could be addressed with this sort of therapy.  

Thanks for bearing with me here guys.  I will go regularly and show him that there is nothing to be scared of!  If nothing else, I can be a better example to my husband.

[KateCat]

If Steph ever reads your story, she will be very proud of you.  I remember how open she was about her own struggles and her "own side of the street." Not many people can be as courageous as she has been and as you are being.

[waverider]

LIGHTBULB                    

I am going to go seek DBT therapy including biofeedback.  I will be an example to him.  It cannot hurt and knowing that I grew up in a BPD family (mom was BPD) with an alcoholic father... .I have many issues that could be addressed with this sort of therapy.  

Thanks for bearing with me here guys.  I will go regularly and show him that there is nothing to be scared of!  If nothing else, I can be a better example to my husband.

That's  a good idea, if nothing else it will help reinforce a lot of the self awareness you are already developing...

Sounds like your hubby has that "stubborn switch" either stuck on or off. My partner is the opposite with a fickle switch, can't stick to anything. I have given up pushing for therapy, as she gives up everything after a couple of visits. This applies to everything not just therapy.

[zaqsert]

If Steph ever reads your story, she will be very proud of you. 

Those of us following you here are definitely proud of you too!   

[allibaba]

Thanks for the support guys.

Not a good day in the house this morning.  He picked a fight over the STUPIDEST thing.  The fact that my tablet doesn't have the weather network application and therefore I am lazy and can't manage my life.  He then asked me if I had gotten his workout vitamins.  I said no, I went twice and then I sent you a message saying that it was your responsibility to find some as the place was out.  He had responded OK.  He said "See you are a disaster, you can't manage your life, how am I supposed to get better?"

I don't think that I have to tell you all that I'm not a disaster, I make good money and have a profession career.  I am the primary caregiver for our son.  I do all the work with the dogs as well as primary responsibility for inside the house and for meals, laundry, etc.

He said.  Starting next week, I am getting rid of one dog per week until you get your life under control (believe me if it had been about the dogs, they would have been gone long ago).  I said, no.  The dogs aren't going anywhere - so he opened the front door and tried to chase off our big dog   I grabbed my big puppy and put him in the car.  Bless the poor dog, he was looking at me like 'why is daddy telling me to go away?'

He said that there is NO WAY THAT I CAN RECOVER when you are such a disaster.  I said, listen, I have my issues but:

And then went into SET about how I adore him and I understand that he's going through a tough time now but that what he's doing isn't working and that he needs to do something different.  I said therapy, medication, temporary separation but he needs help.  

He started screaming profanities at me.

I said, husband I love you but staying on the current path isn't good and you promised in July that you would actively pursue treatment and then you didn't.  I said that I deserve a better life than this, he deserves a better life than this and so does our son.  He said f u f u.  You deserved everything you got in July and your gone it is clear to me now that you care more about the dogs than me.  I said that isn't true.  He said dogs will now start to disappear, you better watch yourself, and your stuff will be on the side of the road.  I said, if dogs go missing, if you lay a hand on me, or if my stuff leaves this house.  I will call the police without hesitation.  I told him that I have many issues but that they were not open for discussion until he got help.  He said that I am part of the problem and do nothing for myself.  I told him (as I have told him before) that I am getting treatment but that is not a subject for discussion.  He said 'see we don't have a relationship.  you don't share you are getting help.'  (I had told him).  He reiterated that I am his only problem and I replied that if I am his only issue then he can pursue a divorce but I will not.

I took the two big dogs to the local kennel (they LOVE it there) and asked them to keep the dogs for a few days.  

And I am very sad this morning but I am worried that if he doesn't get treatment and keeps going down this path that suicide attempt or other destructive behavior will start.  I tried for things not to come to a head but he brought them there and when he threatened to get rid of dogs or kick me out of the house... .I had to take a stand.  

I don't know what is going to happen today.  He called later to say that I do deserve better and so does he.  Once again he tried to explain that he needs me to manage our lives better because he is very sick and I said, I am doing a lot of things to get better myself but you need help.  He said 'see its always about me and my problems' you don't give a s about me and hung up on me.

I don't know today what will happen but I am to the point where if I need to, I will kick him out or pursue a separation.  Not because I don't care about him but BECAUSE I DO CARE SO DESPERATELY about him.

I tried over and over again to validate and defuse the situation.  Nothing worked - he just brought the whole thing to a head

[123Phoebe]

Allibaba, 

[allibaba]

Waverider,

I really took on board your thoughts earlier this week about not pushing my 'agenda' (which is that he needs intensive treatment) too hard.  But I feel like I got myself backed into a corner.  

I tried to disengage when he demanded that we get rid of the dogs, but then he started trying to chase them out of the house.

I know that I wasn't in control of the situation this morning (other than trying to be calm and react appropriately).

I didn't want to get into a spot where it was 'my way or the highway' but I just didn't feel like I got much of an option

One thing that is different is that I am not scared of him anymore.  I am not scared of him hurting me.  I am not scared of him leaving and I don't feel trapped.  Its very very different.  I didn't get an adrenaline dump when he started ramping things up.  I wasn't even shaking.  I grabbed the big dog (already had keys in my pocket and my purse because he was acting nutty) and our son and put him in the car.  I went back into the house to have the SET discussion.  So our son missed most of it.

SIGH

[allibaba]

Allibaba,  

LOL thanks!

[allibaba]

And all of a sudden I am just really tired.  I have so much sadness in my heart that my husband who is so willing to acknowledge that he's sick is so UNWILLING to do something about it.    I do know that this is his journey and I accept it but I am really feeling the sadness of today.  :'( I didn't expect the drama (though I am ready almost any morning).

His family is almost accusatory to me that he needs help and that I haven't FORCED him to get it.  Um yeah - I don't have that power guys and I'm definitely not going to take that on.

And the irony is that he is posting this kind of stuff on facebook (obviously directed at me)

“There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living.”

[waverider]

I think you did good.

Mentioning the treatment was handled ok, as it can't be ignored, but it wasn't used to trigger this. Boundaries are only for when they are encroached on, not as leverage to make someone do something or as a threat

Ultimately you can't control or fix him. The fact that you were not terrified shows you are doing a good job of fixing you. You are doing nothing to trigger this.

Removing the dogs and your son from immediate threat was also good to, that way you removed the potential to get side tracked with immediate leverage.

Just be careful you dont try to start having logical discussions when he has gone into dysregulation mode, it will be wasted

It is all very draining and tiring no matter how you handle it.

[allibaba]

Yes it hasn't been easy at all.  Thanks for confirming that you think that I handled the situation with talking about getting treatment ok.  The message was relayed loud and clear and that is what is important (not that he acts on it).

The big dogs are still in 'doggy daycare'.  Each time that my son asked for them last night, my husband would say "they are gone now" and I would say "they aren't here right now buddy."

Last night (after my son went to bed) my husband came and asked me if I wanted to have sex (not uncommon).  I said sure if its with my husband, no if its the guy who wants to divorce me.  He stormed off saying 'I don't need you.'  He came back an hour later and asked again.  I replied the same and he said 'no its the guy who loves you.'  This is new for me.  I used to say 'yes' unconditionally no matter how badly he was treated me and I felt bad about it.

This morning he's completely on edge again picking on the STUPIDEST things.  Things that there is NO way we have ever discussed.  I managed to avoid the conflicts.  When he mentioned that he never wanted to see those dogs again I said "well they are at the kennels because I respect the fact that you are stressed out but they are not staying there."

I had promised my husband that I would buy him 2 sweatshirts on Wednesday (when I got paid) but yesterday I went to do it and our credit card was declined.  In fact it was well over its limit.  When I looked, he had been shopping all last week.  He called me at work this morning to ask if I had bought the sweatshirts yesterday like I promised.  I said no, I tried but the card was declined.  Since you decided to spend the money on something else I couldn't afford them.  He got angry and said that he's going down to the bank to pull money off of our personal line of credit to pay off the credit card so that he can continue shopping and hung up on me.  Without him working and with him shopping all the time, he is going to cause financial hardship for us if I'm not careful.  In the first several years of his true disorder I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to make him happy.  I'm not kidding you.  I even bought him a sportscar!  Silly silly me.  Regardless we'll be ok though.  We have very little debt and he doesn't have much control over our finances - I only added him to our line of credit to make sure that he felt a part of our financial life (again silly me) but I have separate bank accounts and can move our money (which I earn) across when he is dyregulated.

I am so very tired this morning but at least feel at peace that I am standing up for myself and am no longer a doormat.

[KateCat]

The big dogs are still in 'doggy daycare'.  Each time that my son asked for them last night, my husband would say "they are gone now"

Your poor son!

I guess I'm seeing your husband now coming at you with abuse from all angles: emotional, financial, sexual . . . and psychological abuse of your son, just to get you in line as soon as he can.

Perhaps I am over reactive, as the adult child of a scary father, and waverider or another advisor can jump in here and set me straight. But I think you need some outside help right now. Or temporary removal of your husband from the home until he can choose professional assistance. 

[allibaba]

He's definitely trying a hand at getting me 'back under his control'.  My son is less than 2 at the moment so he didn't understand the "they are gone now" comment.  If he did I would have reacted more strongly.  As it was I didn't react at all.  He's mad as a hornet this morning that I didn't buy him his sweatshirts... .but seriously he spent $1,000 last week on crap (first time in a long time).

As for outside help, I spoke to an attorney back in June to understand my options.  She's really calm and sensible and she's not your typical divorce attorney.  I really loved her.  I got a background on the options back then and wanted to get more details now.

I had an appt with her this morning to discuss the current state of affairs and my options under the circumstances.  Knowledge is power.  My jurisdiction is ZERO tolerance on domestic violence or abuse (whether physical or not).  That helps a lot.  She understands clearly that my husband is suffering from mental illness (he's not just a nasty abusive man).  I explained to her some of the work that I have done on boundaries and we agreed (as was always the plan) that in the case of anything physical, I will call the police.  The impact is that he would be charged, removed from the home and a mandatory restraining order would be put in place.  Because he has no history of criminal activity and there are mental health concerns, the likely impact would be diversion (he would be forced to live outside the home and get treatment/ anger management/ etc).  Alternatively he would likely be convicted of something criminal.  Obviously this isn't ideal but if we go down this road, he chose it, not me.

The last week has been HELL for me and I am tired.  My son knows something is wrong but he's still rolling along.  Basically I am watching him closely.  The minute that he starts to show the signs of stress, I will ask my husband to leave the house.  If he declines, my son and I will move to somewhere else temporarily while I file for a motion of exclusive possession of the house on the basis of stability for our son and the fact that my husband is suffering from mental illness and exposure to his behavior long-term will be dangerous to his psychological welfare.  It would take about 2 - 3 weeks and I would have sole custody during that time.  I could stop this process at any time and allow him back in the house if I chose to (i.e. after effectively participating in a therapeutic separation where we are both getting treatment).

These are obviously extreme measures but these are extreme times.  I just wanted to make sure that my toolkit was full and ready for use.

[KateCat]

I will not continue to bug you, allibaba, after giving this final personal impression:

You're at the point right now where action is needed.

(If you have a very strong stomach, invite some of the people who post on the forums for adult children of borderline parents to weigh in on how much stress your son is under at this time. . . . And maybe ask some of them for their stories about family pets.)

You are trying so hard and so valiantly. May God be with you.

[allibaba]

I guess I'm seeing your husband now coming at you with abuse from all angles: emotional, financial, sexual . . . and psychological abuse of your son, just to get you in line as soon as he can.

And just to be very very clear, there has never been any sexual abuse in our relationship.  Period.

Emotional, psychological, financial - yes

Sexual - no

[allibaba]

(If you have a very strong stomach, invite some of the people who post on the forums for adult children of borderline parents to weigh in on how much stress your son is under at this time. . . . And maybe ask some of them for their stories about family pets.)

DONE.  I do have a strong stomach and I want all input.

[KateCat]

I apologize for mentioning "sexual abuse." I agree this is much better understood as "codependence" or "caretaking" or "FOG" or something other than "sexual abuse":

I used to say 'yes' unconditionally no matter how badly he was treated me and I felt bad about it.

Allibaba, you astound me once again! You are really heroic for asking for the feedback you have just requested.

What a woman.