Guess Who? (the game)

[EdR]

Alright guys... .the last two days have been awful for me. My mind is playing tricks on me, and I am not closer to emotional detachment at all. It all just hurts.

I want to share one of my latest mind tricks. It's actually based on a few things:

1) the 'painting you black' phase and the mirroring which is sometimes done by the one with BPD

2) the skillset which is needed to heal contains a lot of Borderline elements

3) the guilt WE actually seem to feel in all of this

So let's play this game of 'Guess Who?'. I will just write a post which could be the work of NON, or someone with BPD. Guess who? BPD, or NON? And why?


[The post:]


Dear all,

I just stumbled upon this board and finally I can get this off my chest! I'm sure my ex-boyfriend is actually undiagnosed BPD. He drove me completely insane.

When we first met eachother he seemed like a great guy, but my judgment was really off. I've read some posts on this board and it really seems like a textbook case.

At first I was like his dream-girl. Texting me all the time and both of us hanging out. Though the trouble began when I just wanted some peace and quiet. I didn't feel like texting him back ALL OF THE TIME.

He would then start saying things like how I could do this to him and stuff. It was the EXACT emotional blackmailing I read about on this forum.

When I got those messages, I didn't want to reply at all. It just gave me a bad feeling. Like he wanted to be in control. He was just too needy.

Sometimes it was hard, so eventually I would just send him a basic 'hi there' post. We then just talked and everything seemed to be okay. But after a few days or weeks he just became all clingy again. :-(

Eventually, I just followed the advice of some of you and blocked him on 1 of my social media sites. But then he started to contact me. First, he wanted to emotionally blackmail me into replying again. And later on he would even say how hurt he was.

He would then give me the Silent Treatment for a few weeks... but then he would just send me some message again trying to lure me back in.

I endured some of those recycles, but I am really fed up now. Can't he just stop! Are all people with BPD like this?

[/end of the Post]


I think this is scary... .   

[ThanksForPlaying]

EdR

It can be difficult to untangle the BPD/non behaviors, and I agree that a lot of the recovery process sometimes involves BPD-like behaviors.  Look at silent treatment (BPD behavior) and no contact (necessary for recovery).

Ask yourself whose feelings changed the most in the shortest period of time at the beginning of the cycle.  Whose feelings went from love to hate (maybe several times)?  The answer to that question can sometimes point you in the direction of the BPD.

Healthy relationships take time to develop and also take time to fall apart, letting both people detach.

[EdR]

True... but I truly wonder how many people on this board would actually believe this could be the post of a Non?

Ofc, I wrote it from the perspective of someone with BPD. But would you have recognized?

The only thing I used to be able to 'solve' this game, is the following:

The post never really mentions the author being really hurt or confused. It doesn't show true empathy towards her ex.

Those points in bold are what I used to differentiate between a BPD post and one of mine. I still think the similarities are scary though... .

[Waifed]

True... but I truly wonder how many people on this board would actually believe this could be the post of a Non?

Ofc, I wrote it from the perspective of someone with BPD. But would you have recognized?

The only thing I used to be able to 'solve' this game, is the following:

The post never really mentions the author being really hurt or confused. It doesn't show true empathy towards her ex.

Those points in bold are what I used to differentiate between a BPD post and one of mine. I still think the similarities are scary though... .

Ed,

It doesn't really matter if your ex was a pwBPD. Try to focus on the fact that she was not the right person for you. The relationship was dysfunctional and ultimately the two of you were not compatible. If you were it would have worked out. I know this is a difficult concept and I still struggle with it. These were words from my "P" when I told him I couldn't get her out of my mind. You still have a great life ahead of you even though at this point and time it is hard to imagine. Stay positive, crush your ruminations and keep pushing forward. You can and will overcome this.

[EdR]

Thank you. :-)  I agree. Though I know she suffers from it, the label itself isn't the issue. It's the behaviour and hurt which comes with it.

I need to focus on myself, because I am the only one who can change. But it is really hard. Too hard at the moment.

The confusion, the lack of closure, the silence... especially the silence.


Writing this 'game', writing this ambivalent post from 'the other perspective' is perhaps some sort of exercise for me. To prove that, even though we could be called the crazy ones by our exBPDf/gf/h/w/whatever, there's always something which could disprove their theory. That isn't the description of the 'facts' or their twisted lies, as we're often taking things at face value. Outsiders can't immediately see a lie for a lie.

But what separates me from her. What separates you guys from your person with BPD, is empathy, genuine caring, and unfortunately the hurt and confusion.

I'm sorry this post may have looked idiotic, but I hope you guys agree with my point :-)

[Waifed]

Ed

I totally know where you are coming from. I seriously questioned whether I was the one with the mental issue when my "P" told me about BPD.  He said it was normal to feel this way. He also said she probably thinks I am the crazy one!  Ed, it's not too hard, just ALMOST too hard. Hang in there. You are among friends who understand your pain.

[struggli]

That letter was triggering for me

My ex called me clingy and needy if I got upset from not hearing from her, but very early on, she would get upset if I missed her call and didn't call back right away, even while I was at work.  I wanted her to feel safe, not rejected, etc and I cared for her, so I always got back as quickly as possible.  I was never annoyed nor regarded her as needy/clingy or any other negative term.

But later I was annoying and a loser if I didn't hear from her for 24 hours and was getting worried and trying to contact her.  I was suffocating her, pathetic, etc.

[patientandclear]

I think Ed's point is interesting & important.  I think the value of it is to help us see that the fears & instincts we have after having been walloped by BPD abandonments or attacks, are very similar to the ones they have, except they are responding to things that happened long ago with other people, so it's crazy making for us because there appears to be no cause.

It is probably also crazy making for them how we behave.  I am particularly struck by your point that when we "go NC" but then "weaken" and send exploratory texts (and how often do we read about that on this board), it would feel from a BPD perspective like silent treatment punctuated by a suggestion of warmth -- very push/pull.  I think that is useful to bear in mind as we exhort people to engage in NC on here ... .I wouldn't recommend it unless you think you can sustain it.  Otherwise it is inflicting the same intermittent reinforcement & mixed signals that we find so damaging coming from them.

Consistency is very important in how we treat others we care about, even if it has to be consistent separation until we are in a place where we can sustain contact without losing our marbles.

Timely for me to write that -- I'm finding the behavior of my uBPDex with whom I am friends after a prolonged period of NC to be quite hurtful, and my instinct is to pull back without really explaining why, yet you're right Ed, that is a sort of BPD behavior (warmth followed by inexplicable withdrawal) & if we can manage not to do that and push-pull all over the place, it sure is better.

[ShadowDancer]

All I can say to this is when it's over, it's over thank Gawd. Be true to yourself and all things will follow. "Black bird singing in the dead of night. You were only waiting for this moment to arise". We can work it out. (Beatles)

[fromheeltoheal]

Ed,

It doesn't really matter if your ex was a pwBPD. Try to focus on the fact that she was not the right person for you. The relationship was dysfunctional and ultimately the two of you were not compatible. If you were it would have worked out.

[winston72]

EdR, I found your post to be really helpful.  It is descriptive of interactions that are very familiar to me from my relationship.  In my situation, my ex lacked empathy in most life situations as well as our relationship.  She was, however, often hurt, disappointed and confused…and frustrated.  She could see how certain dynamics hurt me, but only after careful, detailed explanations.  It was like she needed to enroll in Human Behavior 101 to gain understanding of how other people experienced emotions.  But she was in touch with her own hurts and disappointments in the relationship.  And I don't mean to say that she was selfish in this regard.  She would be hurt about things that were appropriate (and often hurt without provocation in present events); she just lacked the part about seeing things from my perspective.  The biggest issue in the end of the relationship was the push/pull stuff.  When she would reach out to me I would zoom to respond in any way.  It was just not reciprocated in the same way.  She felt it was her right to respond or not respond in accordance with her desire at the moment.  So, I was at her disposal and she would reply at will.  I tried doing it her way but then she would be hurt.  And then I decided that I did not want to live that way so I acted the way I wanted to and tried to adjust to her rhythm.  That just brought me pain.  

The moments of warmth and common struggle, or the memories of them, are a big part of what keeps some yearning for her alive within me.  

Your alternative post provokes in me that sense of trying to "talk to a wall"…that sense of not being able to get through and find a common way of understanding the relationship.  My journey down the rabbit hole was to keep adjusting my behavior in little ways to try to break through and enliven intimacy.  So, I just needed to find a better way to break through.  I needed to dance faster and faster!  Facing the facts in this instance would have been to admit that this dynamic was hurting me and was not good.  I knew it was hurting me, but I thought I/we could solve it.  I still want to solve it!

There is a great paragraph in the article Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder.  This is excellent, by the way, if you have not already read it.

"Because there have been periods of extreme openness, honesty, humanity and thoughtfulness during the relationship, and even during the break-ups, your “BPD” partner’s concerns are very credible in your eyes. But your “BPD” partner also has the rather unique ability to distort facts, details, and play on your insecurities to a point where fabrications are believable to you."  My memory of these periods is powerful.  I want that person and that relationship back…and I forget the distortion of facts, details and really the broken style of relating.  

Sometimes on these boards we describe people with BPD as though they are malevolent zombies who exist only to suck the life out of us.  And, I must say, that was a part of the relationship!  Yikes!  But, if only that were all of it…because there were so many times of warmth and insight…and that is the contradiction and conflict of relating to someone like this, and now recovering from that relationship.

Hmmm…I seem to have wandered all over the map…your post idea worked for me!

[UmbrellaBoy]

I think the value of it is to help us see that the fears & instincts we have after having been walloped by BPD abandonments or attacks, are very similar to the ones they have, except they are responding to things that happened long ago with other people, so it's crazy making for us because there appears to be no cause.

This was really insightful, for me.

I too have had the thoughts "Is he really behaving that different from me?"

I had abandonment fears after a certain point. I was questioning my own identity. I was having an unstable relationship. I often felt angst or moody or empty or paranoid.

But then I realized, "Yes, but it makes perfect sense for me." I was fearing abandonment because of how many times he had pulled the rug out from under me. I was questioning my own identity because of how it felt like nothing I could do would elicit a stable or predictable response from him. I only had an unstable relationship with him. My ups and downs of emotions were based on his swings.

But I didn't have engulfment fears or commitment fears or intimacy fears (indeed, that's what I wanted most). I was very stable in my identity for a long time, and now am recovering that stability again as I come out of the FOG, whereas his identity has ALWAYS been unstable, not just in interaction with me. He was my ONLY unstable relationship, whereas ALL of his have been. His emotional swings were random and not based on me at all, whereas mine were simply responses to his chaos.

So, yes, if you start "suspending your disbelief" and doing their dance with them, you end up mirroring their instability to some degree. But only for as long as you are "along for the ride." And that's the difference. You weren't like that before, and you won't be like that after you fully heal. They were always like that. And whereas your instability is a result of theirs in a rather "logical" cause-and-effect sort of way, theirs comes (seemingly) out of nowhere (maybe from their past) with no particularly logical or predictable causation.

[EdR]

Thank you guys for all your replies.

@struggli: yeah... I know. Tbh, that was one of the ideas behind it. Ofc, it's fabricated, but just like winston wrote, it would actually want to make me cry out and explain to her what my take on all of it was. To come to a common understanding. :-(

@waifed: thank you. I really hope it won't be TOO hard. It sure feels like that the last couple of days. :-(

@patientandclear: you really got the meaning behind 'my' post. Thank you for understanding. For now, I decided that I am not like her. I won't go completely NC. That means she will 'win'. She will remain in control, due to her often used Silent Treatment. I just don't care now, though... cause I still care. It also means I will be hurt again. But I want to lessen that hurt in other ways. I just want to try and keep a certain distance (haaaaaaaaaaaard)

This part of your reply speaks volumes: "I'm finding the behavior of my uBPDex with whom I am friends after a prolonged period of NC to be quite hurtful, and my instinct is to pull back without really explaining why, yet you're right Ed, that is a sort of BPD behavior (warmth followed by inexplicable withdrawal) & if we can manage not to do that and push-pull all over the place, it sure is better."

And I agree. Just not sure how I'll cope.

@winston72: I just don't know where to start. Literally everything in your post rings true. You have understood everything I wanted to say. Thank you. Thank you so much! :-)  "Talk to a wall", "not being able to get through and find a common way of understanding the relationship.", " I knew it was hurting me, but I thought I/we could solve it.  I still want to solve it!", "Sometimes on these boards we describe people with BPD as though they are malevolent zombies who exist only to suck the life out of us.  And, I must say, that was a part of the relationship!  Yikes!  But, if only that were all of it…because there were so many times of warmth and insight…and that is the contradiction and conflict of relating to someone like this, and now recovering from that relationship."  EXACTLY what I am feeling. I just hope it will stop.

@UmbrellaBoy: thank you as well. "My ups and downs of emotions were based on his swings." "So, yes, if you start "suspending your disbelief" and doing their dance with them, you end up mirroring their instability to some degree." And especially for the last sentence of your post, which -again-  helps us understand the difference. :-)

[houseofswans]

that is a sort of BPD behavior (warmth followed by inexplicable withdrawal)

I'd like to know more about that if possible, please... .

[fromheeltoheal]

that is a sort of BPD behavior (warmth followed by inexplicable withdrawal)

I'd like to know more about that if possible, please... .

It's the push/pull nature of the disorder, get too far away and a borderline fears abandonment, get too close and they fear engulfment.  Everyone fears those things BTW, it's just more extreme with a borderline, and you put the cognitive distortion, the lack of self, and all the other 'features' of the disorder on top, and it's no longer rational and has nothing to do with you.

There's a lot of good info on this site regarding the disorder and how that pathology plays out; fascinating once you get enough distance to look at it objectively.

[winston72]

Thank you, EdR.  It is fascinating how probing into our own seeming "lostness and confusion" ends up providing insight to others.  This type of dialogue on the site has been transformative for me as reader and writer.

And, in this same vein, the post from UmbrellaBoy described it spot on for me.  I did come to fear abandonment, intimacy and betrayal…because she a had abandoned me and betrayed me and that makes intimacy really difficult!  But then these attributes of mine became issues, even issues in couples therapy.  I think they became prominent because they were very out of character for me and I was eager to own them and work on them.  But, that just made everything all the weirder because her issues and behavior became secondary.  It was a source of more slowly percolating disorientation for me.  Self doubt, anxiety, frustration, anxiety developed.  Ugh.

I am sorted out some of these feelings and the drivers for them in therapy.  Clarity is erupting!  Anxiety has all but disappeared.  Understanding is growing.  I still miss her…oh, the oddity of those emotions.  But good times are ahead.

[houseofswans]

It's the push/pull nature of the disorder, get too far away and a borderline fears abandonment, get too close and they fear engulfment.

Thanks heeltoheal,

Is there no middle-ground, you know, just far enough away and not too close?

[fromheeltoheal]

It's the push/pull nature of the disorder, get too far away and a borderline fears abandonment, get too close and they fear engulfment.

Thanks heeltoheal,

Is there no middle-ground, you know, just far enough away and not too close?

Yes, that's where a borderline feels comfortable, but it's precarious and the line is always moving.  The contentment, stability and sustainable comfort that can be found in relationships with ordered folks is impossible with that pathology.

[houseofswans]

I see. The middle-ground is where I thought I was most of the time, but as the line is always moving, I guess I must have strayed one way or the other a bit too far for comfort  :'(