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Author Topic: A Summary of What I Have Read About BPD  (Read 382 times)
Waifed
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« on: November 05, 2013, 09:00:15 AM »

I have read a few books and many articles about BPD. I pretty much came to the same conclusion with most of what I have read.  The vast majority of what I have read is carefully written with strategically placed words that give hope to family members and those with BPD.  I have not found one credible source that is overly optimistic about the chances that a pwBPD will recover enough to engage in a real successful healthy relationship, be it family or romantic.  After listening to a very famous book that talks about coping skills and tools to deal with a pwBPD, I was convinced that it just isn't worth it if you don't have to be around them.

It appears to me that any relationship that is ever going to work with even a "recovered" pwBPD will require lots of forgiveness by the nonBPD partner and their underlying feelings will never leave but they may be better able to cope with them.  I don't see anywhere that the nonBPD should ever expect to receive the the "unconditional love", ongoing empathy or respect that is mutual in a healthy relationship.  In fact, the books I read say without saying that if you are not a family member to the pwBPD your best option is probably to leave.  If you don't leave now it is just a matter of time before the relationship goes south unless the nonBPD is willing to give up their lives to support the pwBPD.  I don't want to live the rest of my days like this.  Do you?
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froggy
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 09:36:51 AM »

After 33 years... I'm about ready to leave. .he doesn't think he has a problem so there is nothing to fix.

His childhood was no way near as bad as mine and can't even imagine what he'd be like if it was.

Taking this time to work on my core issues ... I'm not strong enough to leave YET... but preparing to leave at the next big explosion. ... it's coming and I can feel it... he's been holding it in... think he remembers the last one... .i totally lost it... .I never get that angry... .told him I'm gone the next one.

I know he can't hold it in forever and his drinking has stepped up... .just a matter of time.
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Turkish
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2013, 10:12:37 AM »

After 33 years... I'm about ready to leave. .he doesn't think he has a problem so there is nothing to fix.

His childhood was no way near as bad as mine and can't even imagine what he'd be like if it was.

This is the conundrum, no? I could say the same thing about my X, though hers was bad in different ways. Then again, our cultures are different (and she came to the US as a child so she is the product of two cultures), she had siblings on both sides of her (taking care of them was her "lost childhood" to her), and she had both parents ( the co-dependant enabler as her mom, and the emotionally detached, abusive cheater as her father). Sure, she never had to endure the constant swings of a depressive single mother with BPD traits like my mom... .never had to be homeless for most of her teen years like me (a few years living without electricity, running water, then in a camper with propane to cook), etc... ., but her experiences to her may have been worse: on the inside. I was also morally grounded (thanks mom, seriously, no sarcasm), unlike her. She still isn't at the core.
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froggy
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2013, 10:42:24 AM »

Was just talking to my daughter about this yesterday. ... her dad turned out BPD... his brother codependent. ... he was the scapegoat. .his brother the golden child.

When he died in a plane crash my h was crushed. .his only sibling and only a year younger. His mother really lashed out... it was my fault he died... .and when my h went to comfort her ... he was pushed away and she pretty much told him the wrong child died.

This sent him over the edge for years and he is just patching his relationship with his mothet after 17 years as she now has dementia.

I have great empathy for him... I always have... I wouldn't have stayed 33 years if I didn't.  We are all products of our childhoods... and our parents childhoods.

I've been trying very hard to get my children to see WHY he is like he is... to understand BPD... to have empathy for him dispite the injury he had caused them and me.

I'm just tired... tired of being the only one trying. ... tired of giving till it hurts and never getting anything. In return... .tired of living with someone who is perpetually in a bad mood... .tired of not having my needs met... .tired of being lonely.

But here I am... I still have empathy... he is much more broken than I am... .feeling guilty for being selfish for wanting more... for wanting out... .but reading that I might not ever get my needs met by him is slowly winning out... .I wish I could sit down and tell him what I need from him... .With out the normal... your too sensitive. .don't be stupid... grow a thicker skin... .then have him storm off shouting that of course EVERYTHING is his fault

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Clearmind
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 05:29:04 AM »

It appears to me that any relationship that is ever going to work with even a "recovered" pwBPD will require lots of forgiveness by the nonBPD partner and their underlying feelings will never leave but they may be better able to cope with them. 

Partly! It also requires the partner to learn new skills and how to stop making things worse. The staying boards motto is "nothing changes without change" - meaning it takes both parties to seek help in relationship skills, relating and healing from their own issues.

We all have our own issues as well - I've heard there is no such thing as a 'non'!
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Wanna Move On
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 12:39:43 PM »

Waifed, I really connected with the content and context of your posting.

Everything I have read about BPD and "recovery" (including studies disseminated through the NIH), strongly suggest that while DBT (the supposed gold standard of BPD change technologies) does have statistically measurable evidence for reducing self-harming/overtly pathological behaviors amongst "low functioning" BPDs, it is just that -- reductions of statistically measurably pathological behaviors amongst the low functioning.

Again, from what I have read, there is ZERO evidence that DBT mitigates subjectively unmeasurable BPD core personality traits having to do with virtually all elements of healthy relational intimacy, and/or core perceptions, core beliefs, core meanings, core associations regarding self/other/the surrounding world.

Waifed, unfortunately, all evidence I've read suggests that your negative prognosis vis-a-vis BPD "recovery" in a relational context, is accurate.

What a shame.
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houseofswans
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 12:47:54 PM »

We all have our own issues as well - I've heard there is no such thing as a 'non'!

Absolutely spot on Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Findingmysong723
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 01:46:08 PM »

Waifed, I really connected with the content and context of your posting.

Everything I have read about BPD and "recovery" (including studies disseminated through the NIH), strongly suggest that while DBT (the supposed gold standard of BPD change technologies) does have statistically measurable evidence for reducing self-harming/overtly pathological behaviors amongst "low functioning" BPDs, it is just that -- reductions of statistically measurably pathological behaviors amongst the low functioning.

Again, from what I have read, there is ZERO evidence that DBT mitigates subjectively unmeasurable BPD core personality traits having to do with virtually all elements of healthy relational intimacy, and/or core perceptions, core beliefs, core meanings, core associations regarding self/other/the surrounding world.

Waifed, unfortunately, all evidence I've read suggests that your negative prognosis vis-a-vis BPD "recovery" in a relational context, is accurate.

What a shame.

That just made me sad, as much as I am trying to detach and the anger and frustration I still have when it comes with my Ex, I really do want him to find some kind of content. I remember him talking about how he would probably die alone, he would make it like a joke, like he would be found alone dead with only his cats, who would eventually eat him or something like that. My Ex was joking but there was some truth in that comment. I know that's one of the beliefs of people with BPD or traits, is they will end up alone. I remember telling him I felt alone, it was when our relationship was ending and he was withdrawing, he got mad about that. He angrily said "well join the club!"
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strikeforce
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 01:56:58 PM »

It was the knowing that they can never be cured that made it easier for me to leave and move on.
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Waifed
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 02:13:20 PM »

It appears to me that any relationship that is ever going to work with even a "recovered" pwBPD will require lots of forgiveness by the nonBPD partner and their underlying feelings will never leave but they may be better able to cope with them.  

Partly! It also requires the partner to learn new skills and how to stop making things worse. The staying boards motto is "nothing changes without change" - meaning it takes both parties to seek help in relationship skills, relating and healing from their own issues.

We all have our own issues as well - I've heard there is no such thing as a 'non'!

I understand that the "non" (referring to the one that doesn't suffer from ongoing BPD issues) has to learn new skills, etc. but to what extent?  :)o you have to give up on hoping for someone to love you on a semi regular basis?  I would have been willing to do anything to make my exgf happy, but it seems like a life of chasing your tail.  I know not all pwBPD cheat but I caught mine doing it while she was on a vacation overseas.  I could not live my life knowing that every day she walks out the door to go to work she may bed down with someone at lunchtime.  I am not trying to be negative about this but I just don't see how it can work when you risk the chance of her walking out the door for good daily because she found someone who is paying a lot of attention too her.  

I do want to know how those who chose to stay deal with this and what percentage of marriages are there that the pwBPD doesn't cheat at some point.  I have not heard of many on the Leaving Board.  
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Waifed
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 02:18:57 PM »

Waifed, I really connected with the content and context of your posting.

Everything I have read about BPD and "recovery" (including studies disseminated through the NIH), strongly suggest that while DBT (the supposed gold standard of BPD change technologies) does have statistically measurable evidence for reducing self-harming/overtly pathological behaviors amongst "low functioning" BPDs, it is just that -- reductions of statistically measurably pathological behaviors amongst the low functioning.

Again, from what I have read, there is ZERO evidence that DBT mitigates subjectively unmeasurable BPD core personality traits having to do with virtually all elements of healthy relational intimacy, and/or core perceptions, core beliefs, core meanings, core associations regarding self/other/the surrounding world.

Waifed, unfortunately, all evidence I've read suggests that your negative prognosis vis-a-vis BPD "recovery" in a relational context, is accurate.

What a shame.

Wanna Move On

I have interpreted it the same way and it was traumatic for me.  On the other hand, it has helped me realize that I must move on without her.  I think it will also make it easier to forgive her.  Some days I think I am past forgiveness but the anger occasionally creeps back in.
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maxen
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 03:02:46 PM »

waifed, what you wrote resonates with me too. it's much on my mind because i'm coming soon to the point when i'm going to have to serve, and realizing that the patterns that led to the blow-up will only reassert if we were to reconcile has helped give me a bit of courage about it.

I was also morally grounded (thanks mom, seriously, no sarcasm), unlike her. She still isn't at the core.

turkish i completely share your moral understanding of the situation. there is no doubting that emotional composition constitutes a large percentage of a person's traits, but there is such a thing as moral composition too, and i am not of the school that exculpates moral failure on account of emotional compulsion. unfortunately my wife was raised by parents who seem to do that.
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2013, 03:01:28 AM »

Excerpt


I don't see anywhere that the nonBPD should ever expect to receive the the "unconditional love", ongoing empathy or respect that is mutual in a healthy relationship.



waifed,

Thank you for reminding me again WHY even though I genuinely care about my former partner, I definitely am NOT willing to have a r/s where I can't count on empathy and respect. Thanks for helping to quell the magical thinking again.
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Turkish
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Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2013, 10:22:19 AM »

waifedhuman, what you wrote resonates with me too. it's much on my mind because i'm coming soon to the point when i'm going to have to serve, and realizing that the patterns that led to the blow-up will only reassert if we were to reconcile has helped give me a bit of courage about it.

I was also morally grounded (thanks mom, seriously, no sarcasm), unlike her. She still isn't at the core.

turkish i completely share your moral understanding of the situation. there is no doubting that emotional composition constitutes a large percentage of a person's traits, but there is such a thing as moral composition too, and i am not of the school that exculpates moral failure on account of emotional compulsion. unfortunately my wife was raised by parents who seem to do that.

I  know maxen... .  all I  ever " needed"  from her was to be  treated like a  decent  human being.  She failed more often than not.  our S3  does better than her more consistently. I  know she wants to,  but for the  BPD.  not to say I am perfect,  but it's always what I  try and fall back to. 
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