a few truths and a little bathroom humor

[123Phoebe]

As some of you might know, I suspect my mom and partner of having at the very least BPD traits and there are times that they can both get under my skin something fierce

Mom came for a visit and talked a blue streak, a mile a minute, what seemed to be pretty much the entire time she was here!  I'm used to a quiet household so I was feeling uncomfortable with all this chatter.  I put the handy dandy tools to work and took refuge outside, folded a LARGE load of laundry downstairs to get away for a few and even made an escape to the bathroom a time or two, which brings me to the subject of this post... .

While in the bathroom she would still talk to me, tell me something or ask a question!  I would flinch as I was expecting it, knew it would bug me and it did!  I'd answer her as calmly as I could, even though I was irritated inside.

Okay, so after she left I spent an evening with my guy at his place.  You know what I caught myself doing?  Yelling out a question to him while he was in the bathroom!

Whew, luckily I caught myself and he didn't hear me... .

But he did!

When he came back into the room he asked what I was saying?

I started laughing and said, ''Well since you asked... ."  And told him the above story.  We both laughed and agreed that bathroom time is private time, that unless the house is falling down whatever needs to be said can probably wait.  For a response even!

And in the grand scheme of things, is this really such a big deal?  Think I might be a little too set in my ways... . 

And more like my Mom then I care to admit

[Surnia]

Hi Phoebe

My mother is doing the same. I am used to it. I don't like it very much but I am used to it.

My best work college is doing something similar, she is yelling questions through the whole corridor. She is otherwise a great girl. When this happens she is a bit with spinning wheel in the head, not very relaxed. I usually ask her: Are you talking with me? Or something similar... .

Great you could love about it with your partner! 

[caughtnreleased]

My mother does the same except generally she'll just shout out from the kitchen to people who are in the basement or second floor. If you don't answer she'll just keep calling out and eventually will come and find you down. If you do answer of course you can't understand what she's saying... .It is so unpleasant. Me time doesn't exist if she is anywhere in the neighbourhood.

[Phoenix.Rising]

123Phoebe,

This kind of yelling across the house and talking to each other while one person was in the bathroom went on constantly at my house when I was growing up, and it always irritated me as well.  The conversations were mainly between my mother and sister.  I'm fairly certain my mother has BPD and my sister shows some traits.  I think what it comes down to is no boundaries.  I've found myself yelling across the house on a few occasions, but not very often.    I don't ever remember feeling very safe in the bathroom growing up.  I always felt like my mother or sister might just walk in on me.  The lack of boundaries was quite upsetting.  On an even more personal note, my mother would often call me into the bathroom when I was younger and even into my teens while she was in the bathtub or on the toilet.  I see now that was probably some form of abuse, although I'm sure she didn't realize it. 

[caughtnreleased]

Phoenix... .wow that made me realize I had similar situations of my mother talking to us and calling out to us while on the toilet or butt naked. It didn't really occur to me that this was not normal. I remember frequently commenting to her about not wanting to have a conversation with her like that and she treated me like I was a prude and that what she was doing was totally normal      I also remember having a fear that someone would walk in on me in the bathroom growing up... .funny how some experiences can be so similar.

[123Phoebe]

Thank you for your responses and yea, we have a lot in common with our upbringing  Then we find ourselves here at bpdfamily.com

I agree, Phoenix_Rising, that it's a lack of boundaries and also enmeshment.  And that my mom doesn't do these things deliberately, she just doesn't seem to have the awareness that it's bothersome and not very healthy.  So it's up to me to have my own boundaries and to become unenmeshed, which I have been getting in better touch with.

It's interesting how this stuff has followed me around to romantic relationships.  I didn't have very good boundaries and felt that being enmeshed, totally wrapped up in someone's life, was being close.  Anything less felt like an abandonment of sorts.  I didn't have the awareness that my behavior could be taken as bothersome and not very healthy, either.  So I'd overcompensate to their withdrawal; react, zip fast into fight or flight mode, blame the other guy for not understanding-- focus on someone else's behavior!  All things that drive people away!  The opposite of what I wanted to happen.

My reactions to the withdrawal were just as unhealthy as what drove the withdrawal in the first place; extremes.

I am fascinated by this stuff.

And how a healthy middle-ground can be achieved.

I love the saying: "Everything in moderation, including moderation."-- Oscar Wilde

And to accept that it takes time to get healthy.  There's no rush or flurry to fix; as long as there is awareness, desire and forward motion, good things happen





 

[Phoenix.Rising]

Phoenix... .wow that made me realize I had similar situations of my mother talking to us and calling out to us while on the toilet or butt naked. It didn't really occur to me that this was not normal. I remember frequently commenting to her about not wanting to have a conversation with her like that and she treated me like I was a prude and that what she was doing was totally normal      I also remember having a fear that someone would walk in on me in the bathroom growing up... .funny how some experiences can be so similar.

Unhooking, Thank you for relating.  It helps to know I wasn't the only one.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I didn't have very good boundaries and felt that being enmeshed, totally wrapped up in someone's life, was being close.  Anything less felt like an abandonment of sorts. 

I completely relate to this, and such has been my pattern in relationships. 

I always thought we were 'close' as well.  And I guess we were, in an enmeshed way.    Anyway, it's crazy that I had little to no awareness of this for most of my life - although in a way I did have some awareness, or just knew that something didn't feel right.  I have made a lot of progress, too, but I still have much progress to make.  But that is ok, but this is a day at a time and I have my whole life to live. 

It still 'hurts' to ask for space, or I 'think' it does, but it really doesn't hurt... it actually feels good.  My fear is that the other person will think that I am abandoning them and also I have fear that they will abandon me.  Old wounds take time to heal.  The main person I don't want to abandon today in MYSELF!

[Seashells]

Goodness Gracious! 

This cracks me up!  I am not alone 

I spend part of the year with my parents in their home.  My home is 1500 miles away.

It's a one story house, with 4 bedrooms in the corners and all the living space in the middle.  I keep asking them if we can be in the same room when we talk.   

And the bathroom thing... .don't even go there! Ha!

[waverider]

I so hate this, my partner does this, she sits on the decking in the back yard and yells out "are in the toilet?" then proceeds to try to have loud conversations with me through the window, which all the neighbours can hear also.

I have ended up taking my iphone and earphones in with me and reading a book.

My partner does not talk because there is something I need to know or would be interested in knowing. It is because she has an impulsive thought which she has to say NOW, so it is not really about me, so what I may be doing is not important. It is simply only about her desire to act on the impulse to talk.

What makes it worse is that what needs to be urgently said is rarely of any importance of interest to me.

[123Phoebe]

Phoenix... .wow that made me realize I had similar situations of my mother talking to us and calling out to us while on the toilet or butt naked. It didn't really occur to me that this was not normal. I remember frequently commenting to her about not wanting to have a conversation with her like that and she treated me like I was a prude and that what she was doing was totally normal      I also remember having a fear that someone would walk in on me in the bathroom growing up... .funny how some experiences can be so similar.

caughtnreleased,

Yea, it's so weird and has a lot to do with the enmeshment process, I believe... .  How much more vulnerable can we get than with our pants down?  Even though it felt uncomfortable, I was somehow conditioned to believe that it was perfectly normal and acceptable.  So, by allowing something I felt so personally against to become a belief of a normal occurrence, it maybe became a trade-off for how I expected her to behave towards me in the emotional department?  I do this for you, now you do this for me?

Another thing that would make me flinch, was when I'd drop the shampoo/soap/whatever in the shower.  I knew, "WHAT was THAT?", would be bellowed through the hallway    I laugh now thinking about it, because it's so obvious what the sound is.  I remember trying to be so careful not to drop anything though

I didn't have very good boundaries and felt that being enmeshed, totally wrapped up in someone's life, was being close.  Anything less felt like an abandonment of sorts. 

I completely relate to this, and such has been my pattern in relationships. 

I always thought we were 'close' as well.  And I guess we were, in an enmeshed way.    Anyway, it's crazy that I had little to no awareness of this for most of my life - although in a way I did have some awareness, or just knew that something didn't feel right.  I have made a lot of progress, too, but I still have much progress to make.  But that is ok, but this is a day at a time and I have my whole life to live. 

It still 'hurts' to ask for space, or I 'think' it does, but it really doesn't hurt... it actually feels good.  My fear is that the other person will think that I am abandoning them and also I have fear that they will abandon me.  Old wounds take time to heal.  The main person I don't want to abandon today in MYSELF!

Phoenix.Rising,

Yes, I completely relate to what you're saying.  Do you ever catch your 'negative thought loop' making its way around the bend?  This is what has helped me so much.  Catching it, noticing how I'm inclined to react to it, feeling my body tense up, then doing something entirely different.  With the added effect that by doing something differently and getting a new positive response (outwardly and inwardly), I'm rewiring my brain to associate these same things with the positive spin.  Then the next time something happens, it becomes close to second nature to flip over to the new improved tape in my head.

I'm beginning to believe that the original negative thought loop will always be there, just because it's engrained.  Recognize it for what it is, acknowledge it, then move on... .  This is what I'm getting better at

Old wounds take time to heal, no doubt.

This cracks me up!  I am not alone 

Seashells; no pun intended?

Nope, you are not alone   It's awesome that you're able to express your wishes with your parents now-- "I keep asking them if we can be in the same room when we talk." 

Guess we have to walk the walk first?  Maybe by not responding until we're in the safe zone?   It's hard, it doesn't feel good ignoring my mom.

What makes it worse is that what needs to be urgently said is rarely of any importance of interest to me.

  waverider, now this makes me laugh!

Is it sometimes/oftentimes something that's already been said?

A good friend will give updates of the non-important stuff his mom says; texts them to me.  Always brings a smile to my face, especially while I'm at work.

It's so great having a friend who totally gets it, that way we can filter things with hilarity through each other and we're not reacting to our mom's with  

[Phoenix.Rising]

Do you ever catch your 'negative thought loop' making its way around the bend?  This is what has helped me so much.  Catching it, noticing how I'm inclined to react to it, feeling my body tense up, then doing something entirely different.  With the added effect that by doing something differently and getting a new positive response (outwardly and inwardly), I'm rewiring my brain to associate these same things with the positive spin.  Then the next time something happens, it becomes close to second nature to flip over to the new improved tape in my head.

This is good, and I understand what you are saying.  I still feel very new at actually putting this into practice.  I was thinking that I learned to be 'addicted' to feeling pain and shame.  That felt 'normal' for me.  It is feeling less and less normal every day for me now, though!  However, I still see my mother living in that 'negative loop'.

[123Phoebe]

I still feel very new at actually putting this into practice.  I was thinking that I learned to be 'addicted' to feeling pain and shame.  That felt 'normal' for me.  It is feeling less and less normal every day for me now, though!  However, I still see my mother living in that 'negative loop'.

Yea, addicted to feeling pain and shame... . *sigh*... .

Would you mind explaining this more to me, how you came to this awareness?  Was the pain and shame serving a purpose for you?

About your mother living in the 'negative loop'... . Mine does, too, to a certain degree.  She complains a lot.  About a lot of things!

Jeez, this is embarrassing, but I can remember feeling so uncomfortable with silence in other people's presence (not mom's), that I would consciously think of negative things to talk about to get the conversation flowing.  A learned behavior?  Wow, yep.

I identified (enmeshed) so strongly with my mom, to get her approval; I took it on the road  

Someone on this forum said to me, "You and your mom do not share the same brain".  That's when it clicked  And I started getting serious about this road to recovery.

There's still so much life to find out about from a much different perspective!