Redemption or revenge?

[damage control]

First of all I want to apologise for taking up so much of the board with my posts and threads ... .I am furiously processing at the moment and this is the only place I have as I am completely isolated. Thanks to everyone who reads and especially those who comment and offer insight/share their own experiences.

When I met my ex, he was living with a woman.

When it became evident, a few weeks in, that there was a strong attraction, I told him that I was not interested in being involved with anybody who was already involved with somebody else.

He told me that he and her were all but over and he was only staying because he feared she would self-harm and also, she is his boss at work (she got him the job) and, he worried about getting new accommodation.

His portrait of her was that of a controlling and insecure woman although, he never badmouthed her 'as such' and always maintained that he liked her very much as a friend.

In June, when I was coming to stay in this (his) city for a month, I told him that I would have no part of him sneaking off to meet with me ... .he ended things with her a couple of days after I arrived (actually, it had been ending for a couple of months with arguments etc).

At the time, I accepted his explanations and perspective on things - HOWEVER - since I have realised that this is a pattern rather than reality, I have spent time on her blog (he gave me the address although I don't know why) and I have come to see that she was completely blindsided by the breakup and the betrayal.

Although they split in June, and he moved into the spare room and then out soon after, she writes as though she was completely blindsided by all of it ... I believe her. It breaks my heart to read what she wrote back than, especially as I was the catalyst for her pain ... .I had very little idea and thought that she was hanging on to something that was long dead. It shames me to think of my contribution to this woman's pain.

She still writes about her devastation and last night, I was tempted to call her (she knows my name as she found calls to me last November, although she has no idea that I was the person that he was with after her). I wanted to call to tell her that he has done the same to me (I imagined that may be of some comfort) and also to share some of the insights that I have gleaned here about him and his behaviour. I imagine that we would have much to discuss.

There are a couple of reasons that I didn't call. The first I am (again) ashamed to admit: if I contact her and she tells him, that will probably be the end of his and my friendship forever (he will see it as revenge/betrayal). The more I thought about this, the more I considered that it could be a way to lock him out of my life forever, however, I don't want to use her to get to him, she doesn't deserve that. (They still work together, none of his dramatic projections about job loss or self-harm came to fruition; go figure).

Like me, she is quite isolated and I wonder if contacting her would help bring relief or closure or even satisfaction to her ... (and yes, me). But I don't know if this is ever OK? Reading her blog, I feel a connection to her feelings and experiences ... .perhaps I am also projecting.

I have not done or said anything of which I am ashamed during this breakup, I have not yelled, accused, had a tantrum of any sort, in fact, it has, on the surface, been completely reasonable. I have not let him see (much of) my hurt. Contacting her would obviously change this and it would certainly remove him from my world.

[Perfidy]

DC... I surely understand the mind killing emotional mud. I learned a few things about disordered people and the thread that you just started here reminded me... .His fears that kept him in the previous relationship are all related to survival. The accommodations,the job,all that you mentioned. Survival. Well... .It seems as though some of the disorder is using relationships as a survival tactic. I know it doesn't really change anything by knowing this because we still hurt. It did help me in knowing that it wasn't anything personal about me. Oh yeah... I took it personally... Still do to a large degree. They can't survive without a relationship and the ones they pick end up like us... .Shattered. I lived a nightmare for almost eight years. Eight years. Try and imagine yourself going through that for eight years. It has taken months for me to just not feel suicidal. That crap is poison and the longer you stay in the harder it is to recover. Yes recover. As nons that is possible. As a pwBPD it is not. Only therapy can help relieve the symptoms. It cannot change. You can! Get as far away as you can and take care... Peace!

[Jbt857]

As the (soon to be ex) wife of a pwbd - would it help to hear from my replacement that he also hurt her? No. To hear that she is suffering too? No. Because she contributed to my pain.

I am sure he told my replacement a while heap of lies about how awful a wife I was. How I didn't love him, etc. But that does not heal the pain that I feel that someone came between my husband and I.

I only really got to understanding BPD after he and I separated. I am sure one day I will thank the woman for enforcing an end to our dysfunctional r/s. But that day, when I am still in so much pain, isn't today.

You were the other woman, and while her feelings are still raw, she will likely only ever see you as a source of hurt for her.

That doesn't mean I don't wish you well and empathise with what you're experiencing. I just know I would get no comfort or benefit from my replacements to hear 'he hurt me too!'

Keep posting, but leave his previous woman alone. She has probably suffered enough.  :'(

[damage control]

@Perdify:

You hit the nail on the head there. His (re)actions are all about survival. He has even said to me on several occassions regarding the other people who live here, that he is fine with a couple fo them but the main couple, who originally rented this place, are a 'threat' to his world. His exact words - people are either benign or, they are a threat (I became a threat when I became too close physically, hence the discard).

I cannot imagine going through this for eight years ... I cannot imagine how devastated I would be, how confused or how shattered ... I am sorry that you had to endure that, I truly hope today is better for you, even if it is just a little.

@JbT:

Thank you for your honest and non-judgemental response. It helped me to see that I would be contacting her for me, and would not be helpful for her.

My heart actually hurts for the woman every time I think of her and the part I played in her pain. I didn't know, but perhaps, if I had asked more questions, I may have learned (that goes for the whole relationship).

I will leave her alone and resist the urge to contact her. I certainly don't want to add to the damage I have already contributed to.

[patientandclear]

I feel differently.  I would appreciate hearing from the woman who came after me.  DC, would YOU want to hear from the woman who came after you?  If so, then, your answer is that some of us would be helped, and some of us wouldn't.

Obviously the mentality with which you approach it matters a lot.  You are contrite and empathize with her & are seeing & willing to share that you were NOT more special to him than she was -- that perspective takes maturity (a lot of folks seems to struggle to hold onto the idea that they ARE really The One or the Most Special, whatever the line was that hooked them).  I think that can be a great gift to the previous person, because they are undoubtedly struggling with the fear that you were more special and if they had just been more X Y or Z they'd still be in the r/s & happy.

I think it's clear she might feel any number of ways.  You can ask & of course defer to her reaction. If I were her, I'd appreciate hearing from you.  A lot.

[Changingman]

A remarkable facility for lying and manipulation, particularly for sympathy and adulation, but also to enlist action from others that will further their personal objectives for revenge or retaliation.

He is still involving you in his crazy, this is the point.

A pattern of impulsive actions and chaotic relationships, including, but not limited to impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, and shoplifting.



A long-term pattern of unstable or turbulent emotions, including frequent displays of inappropriate anger.

[ShadowDancer]

Redemption is possible for anyone at any point along the sharp edge we travel. You never really know about these things until you risk. IMO that is one of the first indicators of proof of healing. The ability to risk again. You will "never know" until then. It is all about silence, fear, and assumptions without.

For all you know you could contact this woman and bring her great healing a perhaps a form of closure through your mutual "simpatico". And in the process meet a true friend and confidant if your "lucky".

You never really know until... .

"I did the best I could with what I knew then, now that I know better I do better"  Maya Angelou

[damage control]

@PatientandClear:

Thanks with weighing in with your experience and perspective. No, I wasn't more special than her, I was different as is my replacement different from me (but, we all seem share common traits ... but that is a whole other thread).

@Changingman ... oh yes ... unstable relationships, discarding, drug abuse (although this is medically sanctioned) ... I am still in the crazy ... and still struggling to remind myself that this quietly-spoken, seemingly emotionally resonant man is the same person who is unable to empathise or realise how his behaviour affects others.

@ShadowDancer

Risking again ... that seems a long way away ... I have to admit, if things go south with my replacement, I would appreciate hearing from her ... but that is AT THE MOMENT. Given it has been months and months since he ditched his ex, I am not sure I would be re-opening old wounds (although she was still posting about her hurt on her blog as recent as a few weeks ago). He has gotten away with so much due to silence ... .trusting that the women he chooses will

'do the right thing' ...

One thing I know is that is something he would never forgive - that in  itself almost makes it worthwhile.

I think I have mentioned that they work together - she is his boss in a 2-person department so, she has to face her hurt and him every single day and chances are, she would tell him if I contacted.

[pecia]

I have mixed feelings about this. My BPDh has had several affairs, but I have spoken to his only confirmed physical affair so I can speak from the betrayed wife's point if view. Originally I hated he woman. I didn't talk to her until after he decided she was crazy and ditched her. Then she realized he wasn't that great and had perhaps portrayed me incorrectly. Wr hadd been married for 15 years- but she was under the impression it was a new relationship and that we were not that close. Talking to her eventually made me feel better. I realized that she wasn't more special than me. She got sucked into the same bad situation that I did. But it took me a couple of years to resolve this in myself. A couple of years later when I suspected he was cheating again with another coworker (she works with him as well) - I emailed her to see f she had heard anything. She said she had not but said she would keep an ear out for me. She also told me that I deserve better. That was comforting. I forgive her. We are all human. Jut keep in mind that some people are more forgiving than others - pecia

[Jbt857]

It's interesting to read the different opinions here.

Pecia used the word 'forgiveness' which is interesting. I think I probably feel more forgiveness towards my replacement than I do to my ex. I do have strong opinions on people who get involved with people who are married. But I also know my BPDexh well enough to know that he would not have told her an accurate version of where he and I were really at. On the other hand, she is on his FB, where our status still shows as married and he still has our wedding photos and pictures of us together in his albums. But then, I know how persuasive the BPD psyche can be and she was probably already hooked and spun a line.

I guess really for me, it isn't that I don't forgive her. I know she has been suckered in and I know from what he has told me that she isn't indispensable (he actually told me he would be out of there the moment she asked anything emotionally or in terms of commitment from him).

But I am working to try and heal my wounds. And hearing from her would, I feel, right now, reopen a lot that I have worked hard to try to close.

Further down the line I may change my mind, but now, while it is still so fresh, hearing from her would, I feel undo some stuff, not make it better.

[goldylamont]

we are dealing with people who are living a lie and are practiced in the art of lying to others. so, they keep themselves safe, or 'survive' as some call it, by playing people off of each other. lying to you, lying to x number of replacements, lying to themselves. i think it would be courageous to at least bring the subject up with this other woman. then maybe let her decide if she wants to know more. the thing is that, yes, you will have to bear the consequences of your actions. and so you have to think about whether you are prepared for this fallout.

he's not your friend. it may take a while to fully accept, but this person doesn't care about you at all--at least not in the way we normally consider caring about a person. not-caring about people seems to be his MO, right?

i used to say "the truth is like kryptonite to a pwBPD", at least it feels this way. i feel like the more things are exposed the less they are able to play games. awareness being able to trump deceit. in any case, isn't this what NC is about anyway? basically by staying NC we are saying we know this person is lying and destructive whether they recognize it or not, so we're choosing what we know as the truth over whatever lies they are selling.

if they are still working together, who knows how he may still be playing and manipulating the situation with her. so, he's able to play his game against at least 3 people right now, his ex-ex (his boss), his ex (you) and whoever he is seducing right now. imagine if everyone could just see him for who he was... .he'd have to find somewhere else to play his games.

if you can accept some backlash i say go for it, at least contact her and see how she responds. i can totally understand you feeling that there may be some friendship with this guy, but i think you can see that this is just part of his ruse. he's not your friend because he doesn't make you feel good or care about your feelings beyond how it serves him in the moment.

[Changingman]

They can't do friendship, alien to them

[Changingman]

Their thinking is different from normal/healthy.

[ShadowDancer]

Goldymont, That was truly awesome reading. A clear and concise understanding of the "friendship" ruse that has been pulled on all of us. It is very important for us all to realize this. It is all a manipulation. We may have cared for them and them us in their shallow way, but it was never friendship. We convince ourselves we loved them for our own special selfish reasons but at the end of the day when I hear any of us victims describe these people as their "best friend" my gut response is always, "with friends like that who needs enemies?" This friendship aspect is all illusion and our own delusion.

They don't have friends. We are only interchangeable chess pieces on the board game of their lives.

[ucmeicu2]

I only really got to understanding BPD after he and I separated. I am sure one day I will thank the woman for enforcing an end to our dysfunctional r/s. But that day, when I am still in so much pain, isn't today.

today isn't over yet so try not to cast it in stone.  could you see yourself changing that to "But that day, when I am still in so much pain, wasn't yesterday." ?

regarding contacting the other woman, only you can know the true nature of your motives and whether it would be in your best interest or not.

i will tell you this, i spoke once to one of my xBPDgf's ex bf's, when she and i were still a couple ~ she was, in fact, out of town for drug detox Tx and i was living at her place.  initially i answered the phone just to tell him to stop bothering her/us with his phone calls!  see, she had told me he was a psycho stalker that wouldn't leave her alone.  but it turned into a very constructive and enlightening 2 hour conversation.  come to find out, she was staying in contact with him, telling him i was a psycho stalker, and had even invited him to come live with her!  my goodness, how crowded and awkward it would have been for the 3 of us, !

anyways, long story short (not my forte, ) i was grateful that it happened.  for me, it was a double edged sword (freeing, yet heartwrenching) to speak/to share notes/experiences/stories/insights/anger/disbelief/laughter and tears/etc... .all of it, with another "victim", but ultimately it was more freeing than anything else.  in my case, i'm glad i picked up the phone that day.  really glad.

[goldylamont]

i will tell you this, i spoke once to one of my xBPDgf's ex bf's, when she and i were still a couple ~ she was, in fact, out of town for drug detox Tx and i was living at her place.  initially i answered the phone just to tell him to stop bothering her/us with his phone calls!  see, she had told me he was a psycho stalker that wouldn't leave her alone.  but it turned into a very constructive and enlightening 2 hour conversation.  come to find out, she was staying in contact with him, telling him i was a psycho stalker, and had even invited him to come live with her!  my goodness, how crowded and awkward it would have been for the 3 of us, !

anyways, long story short (not my forte, ) i was grateful that it happened.  for me, it was a double edged sword (freeing, yet heartwrenching) to speak/to share notes/experiences/stories/insights/anger/disbelief/laughter and tears/etc... .all of it, with another "victim", but ultimately it was more freeing than anything else.  in my case, i'm glad i picked up the phone that day.  really glad.

if the current bf of my xgf contacted me now, i'd be fine with it. and i feel safely distanced from the situation to perhaps offer him (or her! some support and perspective on how best to deal. ucmeicu2's example above is the classic web of lies spun in these types of situations. while i would want to keep a safe distance from the situation if she's lying to and devaluing someone now, i wouldn't mind trying to help them to see the truth, and i feel can do this not in any way to seek revenge against her. there isn't really any revenge i'd want against my ex now, wouldn't help me one bit. but shedding a bit of truth would be nice.