Must Be A Breakthrough In Therapy For Me

[Turkish]

My T, whom I've been seeing since the end of September, said he'd never seen me so angry about my situation. He all but said it was a good thing, as previously, I'd been analytical and making excuses for her behavior and trying to understand it from the psychological perspective (BPD). I'm at the point where wrong is wrong, and it is so wrong and I'm tired of it. I'm wrapped up in justifying it as she justifies it to her friends, which she tells a lot of the truth, but not the whole truth. Why the heck to I care what they think of me at this point, despite me being casual friends with them because they have kids our age... maybe I'm thinking too much like her: caring what everyone thinks about me (as a father).

But she's so calm and nice, even yesterday, even though I know what's going on under the surface. I hate confrontations, but it seems like I need to do it yet again tonight to tell her to move out.

She also asked me if our kids were good or did they tear up the house (of my friends where I took them for the weekend) and misbehave? She is still worried about being perceived as a parental failure if our kids get out of control (all about her feelings)! I'm not. Our kids are great, and they behave a bit better when I have them alone, actually. Everyone loves them to death... .and people also realize that kids are, well, KIDS.

[seeking balance]

It is good to get angry Turkish - you have every right to.

I remember being super analytical too - understanding, tying actions back to BPD, etc,... .then I just had enough.  I was not entirely graceful in the email that I wrote and sent (not something I recommend during a divorce process) however, letting that anger out was good for me.

In anger, I was able to tactically do the things I needed for MY best interest for a change.

Congrats on the breakthrough - be mindful to be constructive with anger as it can be used against us if we are not careful.

Don't worry so much about what is under her surface - use the tools SET or DEARMAN from staying if you need to set a boundary.  No need to justify yourself as a parent - your kids are just fine with you I have no doubt.

[Turkish]

No need to justify yourself as a parent - your kids are just fine with you I have no doubt.

Thanks, sb. Yes, everyone says so (as in everyone). Even her... .which in her mind justifies her teen mom behavior since she can trust our kids with me. I don't think she will paint me black as a father... .though I am documenting everything on the off chance that she does. But then she would be hit with the full brunt of parental responsibility she's been running from for the past year.

[Mutt]

I'm wrapped up in justifying it as she justifies it to her friends, which she tells a lot of the truth, but not the whole truth. Why the heck to I care what they think of me at this point, despite me being casual friends with them because they have kids our age... maybe I'm thinking too much like her: caring what everyone thinks about me (as a father).

Before the ex left, she had started her groundwork with her sycophants and was painting me black. I lost all mutual friends but one couple. I don't even know if I'm friends with that couple anymore. They say that they don't choose sides but I don't believe them. I did try to defend my position and explain my side to them. Birds of a feather flock together. If they don't want to come to me and hear my side of the story, then goodbye.

Having said that, I'm a terrible person (i got one e-mail from one of her friends that described me as a monster) to her friends and family. Those same friends and family don't know what emotional pain that my wife has put my kids through during separation and I'm positive I'm blamed for it. Her friends enable her anyway, if they don't, they're painted black.

My kids tell me they like it more at my house. My daughter says that she doesn't feel loved by mom. My two year old says he doesn't want to go home and see mom when it's time to go back.

Do I care what our mutual friends think? I did at one point, because I was scared of what stories she told about me. Her lying and distorting belongs to her, not me. The truth has a way of working itself out. My kids know what type of father that I am. That's more important to me than mutual friends that were more friends of hers than mine.

If they can't give me the respect of hearing my side of the story or talk to me, fine, but I don't want/need them in my life.

[maxen]

that's great news turkish. my T came right out and said it was a good thing when i finally got angry, i mean furious, at the abuse and victimization i'd been dealt. from reading here there seems to be a pattern, as i also approached my situation at first in a sort of clinical way, diagnosing the BPD in my wife, assuring myself that her actions were motivated by the disease (they were). but as you say, wrong is wrong, and as that realization really seeps into my bones i can begin maybe to recover myself.

and thanks mutt for your post. i needed to read every word of it. i was left with no mutual friends at all, her family cut me off immediately, and it was viciously devastating and isolating. two of my family reached out to her, even though she was the adulterer, but none of hers to me. what swine.

[Turkish]

 I've been angry,  but I  didn't show it to the extent I did too my T  until today.  Thanks to you,  too,  mutt. I tread carefully since her mom watches the kids,  and her bro is a God parent.  They don't approve of what she is doing,  and I  am lucky that they grew up with her rages.  but she is still blood, I  am not.  even though all the kids wanted her mom too kick their dad out last year when his affair was exposed, I  can't expect the same sympathy,  even though she is nut really " close"  to her father or siblings. I  just fear a  bad response if I"  kick"  her out. I  will make clear to the one bro that I  have talked to a little that I am in no way keeping the kids away from her,  just to document it.

[Mutt]

I've been angry,  but I  didn't show it to the extent I did too my T  until today.  Thanks to you,  too,  mutt. I tread carefully since her mom watches the kids,  and her bro is a God parent.  They don't approve of what she is doing,  and I  am lucky that they grew up with her rages.  but she is still blood, I  am not.  even though all the kids wanted her mom too kick their dad out last year when his affair was exposed, I  can't expect the same sympathy,  even though she is nut really " close"  to her father or siblings. I  just fear a  bad response if I"  kick"  her out. I  will make clear to the one bro that I  have talked to a little that I am in no way keeping the kids away from her,  just to document it.

Your welcome Turkish! It sounds like you have a good handle on things. Therapy is a good place to vent your anger.

[Mutt]

and thanks mutt for your post. i needed to read every word of it. i was left with no mutual friends at all, her family cut me off immediately, and it was viciously devastating and isolating. two of my family reached out to her, even though she was the adulterer, but none of hers to me. what swine.

It hurt a lot. I felt like my ex was my best friend and I lost a lot of people. I was always friendly and outgoing to her long-time friends, mutual friends and in-laws. I was gobsmacked.

It falls on deaf ears if you try to reach out to her family. I had sent them all a letter about my ex's affair because I did not want her to change the marriage into something that it was not. I don't regret doing so, but it was really pointless, they are just enablers.

[Ironmanrises]

"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." Captain Ahab in Moby Dick. Your anger is justified, friend. Hang in there.

[TakingWingAtLast]

This is exactly what has happened to me! 

Hand it to our expwBPDs!   They are superior manipulators of the truth.  Far better than me that's for certain. 

My ex constantly devalued many of these same people who have chosen hr over me.   I guess they deserve each other then.

D

and thanks mutt for your post. i needed to read every word of it. i was left with no mutual friends at all, her family cut me off immediately, and it was viciously devastating and isolating. two of my family reached out to her, even though she was the adulterer, but none of hers to me. what swine.

It hurt a lot. I felt like my ex was my best friend and I lost a lot of people. I was always friendly and outgoing to her long-time friends, mutual friends and in-laws. I was gobsmacked.

It falls on deaf ears if you try to reach out to her family. I had sent them all a letter about my ex's affair because I did not want her to change the marriage into something that it was not. I don't regret doing so, but it was really pointless, they are just enablers.

[Turkish]

I wussed out last night. She decorated the Christmas tree. Even when she's there, she's detached a little from the kids. After I made myself a quick dinner, which the kids (already fed at their grandma's house) sat at the table with me and munched off my plate. I read to them while their mom did laundry. Then I got them ready and put them to bed (ditto for getting them ready in the morning). They love their mom, but I now see the slightly stronger attachment to me since I've spent so much time with them. Good.

She was on the computer later and asked me my opinion about credit cards, wanting to save money for when she moves out. I felt like telling her, "ask your boyfriend. Oh, he's just a dumb kid who doesn't know anything? Too bad for you!" I asked her about me taking the kids on Christmas and two days after out of town, to meet some old friends of mine who have yet to meet either S almost 4 and D1... .mostly because I always felt an anxiety from my X about stopping by and just relaxing at someone's house who wasn't her family. It felt good this weekend having them all to myself. I had no problems with them, and not feeling the BPD anxiety and tiny dramas, felt much more relaxed myself.

She looked like she was going to cry almost and said meekly, "you mean I'm not going to have my kids for Christmas?" I think if I had said NO, she would have accepted it. Still in guilt mode, which I think is good to keep her until she is gone. I replied, "no, you have them for Christmas Eve with your family. I know that is your tradition and I respect that. I will take them later Christmas morning and for two days after, returning then because I don't want to take them from you for more than 2-3 days. They need to see you." She assented, relieved. I don't feel like it's walking on eggshells anymore since I need nothing more from her, other than vis-a-vis the kids, but I am still her darn emotional caretaker to an extent due to the kids. As long as I keep myself distanced from it, I'm ok with that. My heart isn't a solid stone like hers, but I've encased it in corbomite with regard to her now.

Still ready to drop the conversation on her if she gets weird in any way. Nice to have her walking on eggshells for a change.

[Ironmanrises]

You didnt wuss out Turkish. You are only human and handling your situation as best as you can. To have her in your physical proximity while trying remain emotionally distant is not easy at all, almost like having to tear yourself in two. Hang in there friend.

[TakingWingAtLast]

My heart isn't a solid stone like hers, but I've encased it in corbomite with regard to her now.

Encased in corbomite is awesome!  That should hold you until she finally departs.

I still think that leaving isn't on her mind, really.  It takes a lot to step out from something so familiar.  Do you have a plan for that?

D

[Turkish]

My heart isn't a solid stone like hers, but I've encased it in corbomite with regard to her now.

Encased in corbomite is awesome!  That should hold you until she finally departs.

I still think that leaving isn't on her mind, really.  It takes a lot to step out from something so familiar.  Do you have a plan for that?

Forbid her from going out at night, I don't care whom with. I did this a month ago when she took so much advantage that she went out on a weeknight once until 4:30AM. I lectured her like a father at that point, and she acted just like a contrite daughter. I couldn't do anything about this past weekend when I was away with the kids. I don't plan on leaving for any weekend until Christmas. I can force her to take the kids out on weekends. She could still meet with the dude, as she has done so, I've only made it a little harder. I wussed out last night (thanks Ironman, but I still feel I did) , but I don't think I will keep this conversation to myself for much longer. The holidays be darned. My rage builds again... .I will remind her of her promise for over a month ago that she would leave in Dec. and go somewhere even if she didn't get a stable apartment for the kids.

She is still "searching" to find herself and knows what she is doing is wrong. I've been reading her journal entries... .if you are knew to this part of my story... .she leaves the darn thing pretty much out in the open... opinions are varied on how conscious this is or not, or if she just doesn't view me as being devious... .but I am in fortifying the bulwarks mode, and anything is fair game to me in my house now. I document for later, of course... .

[maxen]

I lectured her like a father at that point

you know, i was more than once mortified to find myself speaking to my wife as if she were a child. i wasn't being mean or sarcastic, it just was the language natural to the situation. it's appalling, to think about it.

[Turkish]

I lectured her like a father at that point

you know, i was more than once mortified to find myself speaking to my wife as if she were a child. i wasn't being mean or sarcastic, it just was the language natural to the situation. it's appalling, to think about it.

It is. I don't remember how old yours is, but mine is almost 11 years younger than me. Now she's cycled back to someone 8 years younger than her, more her emotional level. We'll see how long it is until she cycles back to "daddy." Since I had her only kids with her, I'll probably be the only one. She's entering MILF territory soon... .at least on the outside. It helps me even more to detach thinking of her as my poor, lost, disordered daughter. And makes me look back at myself and my own immaturity, like "what was I thinking?" I'd previously only been attracted to lost older women, though I never had a real relationship with any of them (almost once or twice, but wisely backed away from it because in the end I trusted my gut).

[TakingWingAtLast]

Maxen and Turkish,

I can relate to the idea of treating the expwBPD like a child.  She hated that!   But she was doing a number on her own kids and I intervened.  And she bloodied her exH at every chance and at every conversation that she had with her kids.  Put them in the middle every time.  I stepped in then, too, saying you can't put your kids in the middle between you and your exH.   More often than not, I had to rewrite the constant stream of emails that were sent his way.  This was always happening, especially over money!  The expwBPD had a real hangup about money.  With me, her exH, with waiters, with retailers, with every single transaction she ever made.  It was unreal!

D

I lectured her like a father at that point

you know, i was more than once mortified to find myself speaking to my wife as if she were a child. i wasn't being mean or sarcastic, it just was the language natural to the situation. it's appalling, to think about it.