I'm so ashamed...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Yep... .it's official.  I'm weak and a fool.  I obviously underestimated how far along I really was in my detachment and healing.  I didn't even want to write anything about this and just pretend like it didn't happen.  I feel like all of you will read this and just shake your heads and sigh because you know exactly what it's like and I ___ed everything up.  But I need you guys so I am swallowing my pride and baring it all.

So last Monday, I dropped my daughter off for choir practice.  I had planned on running some errands for the hour and a half I had to kill.  I had this spontaneous burst of bravado that hit me out of nowhere.  Like I thought to myself, "Well I have been doing so well and I turned him down when he emailed me asking if I want some company and surely that means I am on the mend and he has no power over me so I will just stop by him mom's place and get my stuff that he hasn't returned to me yet because I can handle it!" And of course, I didn't give it a second thought. Just cruised right on over.  There I am sitting in my car outside and I am getting ready to call him.  I look up and there he is. Standing in front of my car looking so happy to see me.  I mean seriously you guys, this was the face I used to see when we were first in love and everything was all pretty.  He walked over to the car and I told him I was there to get my stuff.  He told me he wasn't sure which box it was in.  It was clear he wasn't interested in going inside to look for my stuff while I sat there.  so then, instead of driving away we started having a conversation.  And I still felt really brave and strong. Until I invited him to sit in my car because it was cold.  Why would I do that you ask? Because I am ___ing nuts apparently.

So there he is sitting there and not long goes by before he expresses how hard it is for him to not touch me.  I ask him what happened with his "girlfriend" and of course, he downplayed all that and said there was nothing there.  He told me that it had became clear to him that he and I have something special and rare.  We talked some more and then when he went to get out of the car I hugged him.  Stupid idea.  That just churned it all up inside both of us.  Yes he called me a couple of hours later and yes, I had him come over.  He told me that he thought things were only intense between us because we had not seen each other for so long.  He told me he still loved me.  He said he is drawn to me and he can't explain why.  I let him spend the night. 

BUT THEN... .he kept my number blocked from his phone and the next day I tried to call him and he ignored me.  The following day he called me after work and I asked him to meet me for dinner so we could talk.  This is where the games started to kick in. He was 15 minutes late meeting me and didn't even call to tell me he was running late.  During dinner he told me he might be moving to California, where I used to live and that he wasn't motivated to do the work with us.  He said he wished I was 25 like him and that we could just have a casual relationship and travel and then settle down and have babies.  Even though he told me many times he didn't ever want anymore children.  He said he could only handle me in small doses and that he was focusing on himself right now.  I asked him to go to counseling with me and he said he didn't want to commit to anything right now.  When I mentioned moving on with other people he said he didn't want that and his mood instantly changed.  He became very childlike and clingy yet distant.  Hard to explain actually.  He was shutting down and would not communicate about it anymore.  He just became fidgety and uncomfortable. 

So then he asked if he could come over later that night to spend the night.  I told him yes because I was hoping to make some progress with my questions.  He told me he hated it that all I wanted to do was talk about our problems.  I was caught up in this old familiar web of desperation just seeking a shred or glimmer of hope that he really did give a ___ about me like I did about him.  When we were leaving he sat in my car for a minute and started playing the music I have saved on my car's music box.  He played one of our old songs and looked deeply into my eyes and kissed me.  It was very passionate and then it was like he just turned the switch off and it was gone.  He didn't call me later that night.  And he hasn't talked to me since.  He refuses to answer my emails and I don't even know what happened. 

I am back at square one.  I feel used and I feel foolish.  I feel rejected and abandoned and like I am nothing to him.  I don't understand how someone who claims to love you and doesn't want to be without you can act this way.  He said he would be back with me in a heartbeat if we didn't have to go to counseling or work through anything.  I just don't understand. 

[Supernova9star]

Yep... .it's official.  I'm weak and a fool.  I obviously underestimated how far along I really was in my detachment and healing.  I didn't even want to write anything about this and just pretend like it didn't happen.  I feel like all of you will read this and just shake your heads and sigh because you know exactly what it's like and I ___ed everything up.  But I need you guys so I am swallowing my pride and baring it all.

So last Monday, I dropped my daughter off for choir practice.  I had planned on running some errands for the hour and a half I had to kill.  I had this spontaneous burst of bravado that hit me out of nowhere.  Like I thought to myself, "Well I have been doing so well and I turned him down when he emailed me asking if I want some company and surely that means I am on the mend and he has no power over me so I will just stop by him mom's place and get my stuff that he hasn't returned to me yet because I can handle it!" And of course, I didn't give it a second thought. Just cruised right on over.  There I am sitting in my car outside and I am getting ready to call him.  I look up and there he is. Standing in front of my car looking so happy to see me.  I mean seriously you guys, this was the face I used to see when we were first in love and everything was all pretty.  He walked over to the car and I told him I was there to get my stuff.  He told me he wasn't sure which box it was in.  It was clear he wasn't interested in going inside to look for my stuff while I sat there.  so then, instead of driving away we started having a conversation.  And I still felt really brave and strong. Until I invited him to sit in my car because it was cold.  Why would I do that you ask? Because I am ___ing nuts apparently.

So there he is sitting there and not long goes by before he expresses how hard it is for him to not touch me.  I ask him what happened with his "girlfriend" and of course, he downplayed all that and said there was nothing there.  He told me that it had became clear to him that he and I have something special and rare.  We talked some more and then when he went to get out of the car I hugged him.  Stupid idea.  That just churned it all up inside both of us.  Yes he called me a couple of hours later and yes, I had him come over.  He told me that he thought things were only intense between us because we had not seen each other for so long.  He told me he still loved me.  He said he is drawn to me and he can't explain why.  I let him spend the night. 

BUT THEN... .he kept my number blocked from his phone and the next day I tried to call him and he ignored me.  The following day he called me after work and I asked him to meet me for dinner so we could talk.  This is where the games started to kick in. He was 15 minutes late meeting me and didn't even call to tell me he was running late.  During dinner he told me he might be moving to California, where I used to live and that he wasn't motivated to do the work with us.  He said he wished I was 25 like him and that we could just have a casual relationship and travel and then settle down and have babies.  Even though he told me many times he didn't ever want anymore children.  He said he could only handle me in small doses and that he was focusing on himself right now.  I asked him to go to counseling with me and he said he didn't want to commit to anything right now.  When I mentioned moving on with other people he said he didn't want that and his mood instantly changed.  He became very childlike and clingy yet distant.  Hard to explain actually.  He was shutting down and would not communicate about it anymore.  He just became fidgety and uncomfortable. 

So then he asked if he could come over later that night to spend the night.  I told him yes because I was hoping to make some progress with my questions.  He told me he hated it that all I wanted to do was talk about our problems.  I was caught up in this old familiar web of desperation just seeking a shred or glimmer of hope that he really did give a ___ about me like I did about him.  When we were leaving he sat in my car for a minute and started playing the music I have saved on my car's music box.  He played one of our old songs and looked deeply into my eyes and kissed me.  It was very passionate and then it was like he just turned the switch off and it was gone.  He didn't call me later that night.  And he hasn't talked to me since.  He refuses to answer my emails and I don't even know what happened. 

I am back at square one.  I feel used and I feel foolish.  I feel rejected and abandoned and like I am nothing to him.  I don't understand how someone who claims to love you and doesn't want to be without you can act this way.  He said he would be back with me in a heartbeat if we didn't have to go to counseling or work through anything.  I just don't understand. 

[patientandclear]

Oh dear, SN9S, I've lived through that exact scenario myself.  So don't be ashamed, or I'll have to be ashamed too!

Seriously, almost exactly the same scenario, 2.5 years ago.  How we got there was a little different, but it was a couple months after the breakup, and he suddenly reversed course & wanted to talk about getting back together.  He thought he'd never touch me again, etc.  Everything that was a problem before suddenly wasn't, it was as if it never happened.

We spent a few days together playing around with the idea of trying again.  But like you, I wanted him to deal with whatever the F happened to cause him to pull away from me so dramatically just a couple months before.  I told him it was likely to happen again and I needed a better plan for it not to play out the same way, because it was too painful to have him just leave.

Like your guy, mine just sort of balked at the idea of doing work on the situation.  Or even acknowledging that there WAS a situation.  Had I just come back no questions asked, hit re-set and embraced him, I think we'd have been off to the races again -- for the time being.

They want you to make them feel good.  Not bad.  It really is that simple and crude.  If you are a rewarding object (the term 2010 uses a lot) they will stay!  If you are a withdrawing, troublesome, shame-inducing, downer object, they will go!

It really is about that binary, a lot of it anyway.

You were a rewarding object when you showed up at his house, invited him into your car, kissed him & let him spend then night!

You were a withdrawing, bummer, downer object when you wanted to remind him that he hurt you & that there are problems!  Especially when you wanted him to do work!  I recall my ex saying, with a quizzical look on his face, "and the rest of it would just be ... .work ... .".  Like the idea that you would work on a r/s was a completely exotic concept.

Like your guy, mine ended our last discussion about this with a passionate kiss & a deep look into my eyes.  I now think he knew it would be the last time we touched.

Then he was sort of "gone" from then on.  Never returned to me at that level again.  (He and I have been in other, maybe better places since then as friends, but he never came back to me in the spirit of wanting to restart our romantic r/s after that last kiss.)

I am certain that the trouble was simply that I wanted him to look at something unpleasant as a condition of restarting the r/s.  You, too.

If you stray from being a rewarding object, you can expect a departure.  Depending on your dynamic and the particular person you're dealing with, the departures may be cyclical & you may be able to almost count on them coming back.  But if you stop rewarding, there will be a withdrawal.  Not walking on eggshells means you can't bend over backwards trying to prevent this -- you have to be yourself, and be true to yourself (ideally without making it worse by JADEing etc.), and deal with the reactions they have to that.

Your request that he engage in counseling with you or take certain steps to protect you if you resumed the r/s was completely reasonable.  For you to walk back in as if nothing had happened would have been crazy & self-abandoning.  He didn't like your conditions -- he refused them, as most pwBPD would do -- and that's all that had to happen for him to switch off again.  You were frustrating, you impeded his reward.  Foot stomp.  End of analysis.

[RecycledNoMore]

My friend, I hear you, no need to be ashamed, theres no need, many of us here have done the same, with the same devastating result, please so, dont be afraid to let your true feelings out here, we are with you.Sometimes the pain of missing our ex is just to great, and we slip up, it dosent mean you are weak, or a fool, it just confirms that you are human,a woman who is trying to make sense of what has been and what is.

Your reactions are totally normal SO, and to some degree, so are his.He is what he is, and its possible he will never change.

What about you? What do you want?, is this your last straw? Because if you want more hurt, theres plenty more where that came from.

I cried when I read your post, because Ive been there too, I want to suggest all the usual remedies, NC, therapy, taking care of you, but I know how hard that all is, but when you realise, those maybe your best options at this point, the only thing left to do is- do it.

It NEVER ceases to amaze me, how utterly unfair BPD is.

Im so sad for you SO, please know there is a better life out there for you, waiting patiently for you to grab it.You/ we can do this.

[fromheeltoheal]

First off, no need to swallow any pride with us; like you said we know exactly what it's like.

Second, the good news is you just got radical feedback on how well your detachment is going, and here's an opportunity to redouble your efforts, if that's what you want to do.

I just don't understand.  

Of course not, it's a serious mental illness, un-understandable by those of us without it.  My take is you are still very triggering to him, and he felt the intense pull followed by the intense push, attachment fantasy, abandonment fears, engulfment fears, fears you'll find out he is as worthless as he thinks he is at his core if you do too much 'talking about problems', which would totally blow the well-crafted facade of normalcy.  All that in split seconds, because that's what phase the relationship is in for him.  You got a glimpse of the chaos that is the norm in his head, tried to make sense of and reason with it, and it metastasized into your own personal chaos.  This is sad, but it is not mysterious.

So in some ways these experiences can be like starting from scratch in detachment, and in other ways you may have new info that can give you new resolve.  My borderline ex called and sent emails repeatedly after I left her, and by then I had discovered BPD, which fits her like a glove, the communication attempts with their embedded manipulation were transparent, overall it was all so ridiculous, but something I might have fallen for a few months prior, back in my naivety, so the end result was it strengthened my resolve; maybe there are bits of that in there for you?

Emotions are strong for you now; please keep typing, and take care of you!

[topknot]

Oh please don't be ashamed. I have been there, too. I wished I had a third foot so I could have immediately kicked myself in the ass. The loving way he spoke to me, could I please rub his back? So when I was done, I said I was leaving. Oh no, let me reciprocate. Okay, one thing leads to another, and comments like " What we have is so rare", "You are such a strong woman after all you've been through", "You're so lucky your kids are so amazing", on and on. Then the finale after he literally gets up from laying with me --"I don't know if you're thinking I want to start dating again or be in a relationship, I just can't do that right now. When people are in relationships, they get too possessive." I got up and nicely said goodnight. No texts, no calls, I filled a need. I think I really would have appreciated him just asking for a booty call. Forget all the schmoozing. But then that is what a non-disordered person would do. We all keep learning, over and over... .  At least I have the knowledge now to not internalize it like I used to

[Supernova9star]

So basically what happened here was a typical reaction from a PWBPD?  I would really like to understand better what is meant by "triggering" him.  Does that mean that the way he described being drawn to me is actually part of the disorder and had nothing to do with how much he loves me? I found out from his mom that he is planning to move away.  I am confused why he didn't just tell me to leave him alone or that he felt like it was a mistake or something.  I mean he just stopped talking to me abruptly and left everything up in the air.  What do they gain from doing this? Why can't he just tell me he never wants to speak to me again? He has before so why not this time? It is just so cruel how he plays games but denies that he is and is so charming and deceptive that I easily fall for his lies every time. 

yes I have had enough.  But the finality of that is very hard to swallow.  After investing 8 years into this and coming away without ever having achieved what I thought we were chasing is really brutal.  I kept pushing forward in the relationship thinking we were going to overcome our baggage together and come out on top and then make all of our dreams come true together.  I never thought he would like give up, abandon me and my daughter and now decide to move far away. 

He told me at dinner that he is better without me. He said he isn't tense or anxious.  I asked him if he thought all his problems were caused by me and he said he thought so.  I asked him if this happened with someone else, would that be proof for you that there is something wrong and he said he thought that would help.  I can't believe he wants to make efforts to be with other people just to prove to himself if it was me or him?  What a waste of effing time.  He also said he could be with any other woman and still sneak out at night to come over to my place and sleep by my side.  What the hell is that?

[Supernova9star]

Could someone please explain the process to me of the triggering and engulfing and everything that happens with PWBPD in a relationship or provide me a link to some learning material please? I am really having a breakdown at the moment. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Could someone please explain the process to me of the triggering and engulfing and everything that happens with PWBPD in a relationship or provide me a link to some learning material please? I am really having a breakdown at the moment. 

Here you go, this one resonated for me: https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

"Triggering" are people or situations that cause a borderline to feel strong emotions, which they don't have the ability to soothe, so the crazy shows up.  Not exactly a clinical definition, but it works for me.

[fromheeltoheal]

So basically what happened here was a typical reaction from a PWBPD?  I would really like to understand better what is meant by "triggering" him.  Does that mean that the way he described being drawn to me is actually part of the disorder and had nothing to do with how much he loves me? I found out from his mom that he is planning to move away.  I am confused why he didn't just tell me to leave him alone or that he felt like it was a mistake or something.  I mean he just stopped talking to me abruptly and left everything up in the air.  What do they gain from doing this? Why can't he just tell me he never wants to speak to me again? He has before so why not this time? It is just so cruel how he plays games but denies that he is and is so charming and deceptive that I easily fall for his lies every time. 

yes I have had enough.  But the finality of that is very hard to swallow.  After investing 8 years into this and coming away without ever having achieved what I thought we were chasing is really brutal.  I kept pushing forward in the relationship thinking we were going to overcome our baggage together and come out on top and then make all of our dreams come true together.  I never thought he would like give up, abandon me and my daughter and now decide to move far away. 

He told me at dinner that he is better without me. He said he isn't tense or anxious.  I asked him if he thought all his problems were caused by me and he said he thought so.  I asked him if this happened with someone else, would that be proof for you that there is something wrong and he said he thought that would help.  I can't believe he wants to make efforts to be with other people just to prove to himself if it was me or him?  What a waste of effing time.  He also said he could be with any other woman and still sneak out at night to come over to my place and sleep by my side.  What the hell is that?

It seems you are trying to use rational thought and reason to understand his motivations and thoughts.  If he does truly suffer from borderline personality disorder or exhibit traits, rational thought won't work.  They call it radical acceptance around here, acceptance that our partner has a serious mental illness.  The huge wake-up call for me was to realize that the person I was intimate with, spoke with the most, shared everything with, has a serious mental illness.  Sobering and full of What the heck.

We aren't qualified to diagnose the disorder, we ain't professionals, but if you read a bunch of stuff on the disorder and lights start to come on for you, you start to have Aha moments, it will really help with your understanding.  If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, chances are it's a duck.

See if he fits in this: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a103.htm

[fromheeltoheal]

Here, this one's good too, maybe the best for where you are: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

[ucmeicu2]

Yep... .it's official.  I'm weak and a fool.  I obviously underestimated how far along I really was in my detachment and healing.  I didn't even want to write anything about this and just pretend like it didn't happen.  I feel like all of you will read this and just shake your heads and sigh because you know exactly what it's like and I ___ed everything up.  But I need you guys so I am swallowing my pride and baring it all.<cut>

I am back at square one.  I feel used and I feel foolish.  I feel rejected and abandoned and like I am nothing to him.  I don't understand how someone who claims to love you and doesn't want to be without you can act this way.  He said he would be back with me in a heartbeat if we didn't have to go to counseling or work through anything.  I just don't understand. 

oh {{hugs}}  i know exactly what it's like, how it feels, how you feel so healthy and resolved one minute and then back at square one the next.

in bold,

you do understand.  i'm sure you do.  do you know the old expression "actions speak louder than words"?  classic case here with us and our pwBPD.  you understand... .you're just in denial.   join the club,  !  i still find myself in denial, after 10 months of not talking/texting/writing/or see my xBPDgf!  you're human.

i remember the first time i told my gf (me thinking that surely if i s-p-e-l-l it out for her, she'd understand,  ) told her that actions speak louder than words... .that her actions didn't sync up with her words... .   in retrospect, i can see her dissociating when i said it... .could see her shrink back from me... .could see her wheels spinning, trying to figure out a way of "dealing" with me there, on the spot, without actually having to ':)EAL" with what i'd said.

no shame in what you did.  my genuine hope for you would be that you will learn from this mistake... .learn better than i did.

ucme

[DragoN]

actions speak louder than words

That is all you need to know when dealing with most people as well. Look at their actions. When the words don't line up, there's your answer. Evasion, silent treatment the whole gamut of the PDI can play itself before your eyes under a variety of masks. The PDI is even aware of what they are doing, the damage it creates in others and will still do it. At the core they are hollow, empty and  hating themselves. BPD have the highest incidence of suicide as I recall.

I am back at square one.  I feel used and I feel foolish.  I feel rejected and abandoned and like I am nothing to him.  I don't understand how someone who claims to love you and doesn't want to be without you can act this way.  He said he would be back with me in a heartbeat if we didn't have to go to counseling or work through anything.  I just don't understand. 

There's not much to understand with insanity. What is necessary is to understand why you continue to allow it into your life. You are his trigger. You matter more to him than anyone else. A fire that burns in both directions if you will. It can burn you if you allow it, but he will roast in it when he comes too close to you. It's a cruel disorder.