Heard from yet another former friend of the ex... a few years later

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I left one of her friends a note on FB about a year ago, but never heard anything then. I just asked how they met and what she thought of my ex. This person was one of my ex's friends when she had just moved from another state. I didn't hear that much about the friend except that she was "flaky" when I asked my ex about asking her to be a bridesmaid since they were friends, after all. I thought it was a little odd that my ex had so few friends, but at the time I chalked it up to her just moving into town from another state.

My ex's friend, C, said they were introduced by my ex's mom since they both went to the same college (Mom was a good bit older and finally getting her degree). C hung out with my ex until she started "acting weird." C thought it was odd that my ex was so desperate to get another husband and treated it just like she was "getting rid of an old dress." Yes, I definitely thought it was strange that she was over him so quickly, dating me barely a month after the divorce was final, after a short marriage after she had his daughter. Why, oh why, didn't I smell the coffee then? C also said she always thought the family was a little off. She picked some things up from them once and my ex was so excited to show off the wedding dress and that we were going to have a baby right away. After that she said she never heard anything from her. Likely because she was so intensely focused on ME. She agreed that what I told her about the relationship was pretty intense. It's funny, I guess, how other women/people pick up on things and keep their distance.

It's been a few years now, and I definitely never thought it would take so long to figure out and move on. "Guilt" and my attraction to rescuing damsels-in-distress were my biggest hooks. I was also very naive about love and relationships. Otherwise a major red flag or two would have been plenty to discourage me. I'm enjoying a little bit more success in dating. It's a learning experience though. Trying to decide what I really want, learning to move slow and learning boundaries, going easy on myself when I don't meet success. It seems like there's plenty of baggage out there and it takes time to meet someone compatible who is healthy and intentional about having a healthy relationship. It's definitely a lot better than being stuck in a rescuing pattern, a miserable marriage, or being divorced with a child though I was an excellent partner. It'll all work out for the best in the end. It's up to me to move on and move up.

[findingmyselfagain]

I left one of her friends a note on FB about a year ago, but never heard anything then. I just asked how they met and what she thought of my ex. This person was one of my ex's friends when she had just moved from another state. I didn't hear that much about the friend except that she was "flaky" when I asked my ex about asking her to be a bridesmaid since they were friends, after all. I thought it was a little odd that my ex had so few friends, but at the time I chalked it up to her just moving into town from another state.

My ex's friend, C, said they were introduced by my ex's mom since they both went to the same college (Mom was a good bit older and finally getting her degree). C hung out with my ex until she started "acting weird." C thought it was odd that my ex was so desperate to get another husband and treated it just like she was "getting rid of an old dress." Yes, I definitely thought it was strange that she was over him so quickly, dating me barely a month after the divorce was final, after a short marriage after she had his daughter. Why, oh why, didn't I smell the coffee then? C also said she always thought the family was a little off. She picked some things up from them once and my ex was so excited to show off the wedding dress and that we were going to have a baby right away. After that she said she never heard anything from her. Likely because she was so intensely focused on ME. She agreed that what I told her about the relationship was pretty intense. It's funny, I guess, how other women/people pick up on things and keep their distance.

It's been a few years now, and I definitely never thought it would take so long to figure out and move on. "Guilt" and my attraction to rescuing damsels-in-distress were my biggest hooks. I was also very naive about love and relationships. Otherwise a major red flag or two would have been plenty to discourage me. I'm enjoying a little bit more success in dating. It's a learning experience though. Trying to decide what I really want, learning to move slow and learning boundaries, going easy on myself when I don't meet success. It seems like there's plenty of baggage out there and it takes time to meet someone compatible who is healthy and intentional about having a healthy relationship. It's definitely a lot better than being stuck in a rescuing pattern, a miserable marriage, or being divorced with a child though I was an excellent partner. It'll all work out for the best in the end. It's up to me to move on and move up.

[Pretty Woman]

I had the opportunity to hear from one of her exes who is still friendly with her on FB. She noticed we were no longer FB friends and reached out to see if we were through.

I was honest and told her what happened.

Her response was: You are a wonderful, sweet person who deserves someone who will love you fully.

She didn't get into details but she proceeded to tell me my ex would pick fights with her a lot and it was always her fault (ex would take no responsibility). She said she felt my ex had demons that prevented her from having a successful healthy relationship.

Now my ex is undiagnosed (my therapist believes she is BPD). I do feel a little better this woman has stated she can't keep a relationship.

I mean it still hurts but beats the so called "closure" I got from ex which was her telling me she was being compassionate giving me closure---which was disclosing ALL my faults and taking 0 responsibility.

[findingmyselfagain]

I've heard basically the same story from everyone. She picked fights, too, and never owned up to responsibility, and was never able to be friends with an ex. I thought we worked through things, but now I realize it was probably more or less a show to keep me around and avoid abandonment. Definitely a chaotic relationship history which is one of the hallmarks of BPD. Our r/s ended shortly after our wedding shower, and I didn't really have enough time to come off the honeymoon and fall out of love. So it's taken me a long time to get over it. It's a sad love story in some ways, but hearing the same story from everybody else helped to confirm I didn't "miss" anything. I fell in love too quickly with the wrong person. Everybody pretty much said we looked really good together and that I was a really nice guy. This actually pissed her off and she responded that it takes "more than nice to make a marriage." I realize that's true, but it shouldn't be torture either, unless you're with someone with a warped sense of relationships.

[heartandwhole]

findingmyselfagain,

It sounds like you are really living up to your screen name.    I'm happy to hear that you are moving on and moving up.  It's great that you recognize your patterns and have learned from that difficult relationship. 

What was the turning point for you?

[findingmyselfagain]

Hi heartandwhole,

It depends on which turning point you're talking about. Things started clicking for me more when I recognized my mother is a lot like my ex... .emotionally unstable... .was always harder on me. I think my parents' failed marriage was a lot like my relationship with my ex. I see a lot of the tendency to rescue or a lack of boundaries more now as a part of my family's history.

It was pretty much the textbook borderline romance. A few months after the surreal, confusing break-up, at some point I started searching and BPD seemed to hit the nail on the head. I still believed what we had may have been "true love", so I spent some time trying to decide if I wanted to try to reconcile or at least get more information. I kept reading others' stories on these boards, talked to some people on FB who were diagnosed or had relationships. I learned about as much as I could. I like to say the BPD was kind of like a tornado, you can learn a lot about a tornado, but you can't change the nature of the tornado no matter how much you know about them. I actually went to a meeting for a support group for borderline sufferers. The leader of the group was about my age and I think she had a romantic interest in me. I just knew I wasn't strong enough then for a go-round in borderline land at the time. We hung out several times and kept in touch until unfortunately she passed away due to a severe health issue which she had surgery for. She was only 31. I spent some time telling the group about my former relationship and they pretty much told me I should run if she wasn't treated. I was surprised at how much it affected them even though they were diagnosed and were fairly self-aware.

I found an online blog and started chatting with someone who was diagnosed with BPD and was very self-aware and in intense treatment to repair herself. Again, it was surprising how much it affected her though she had a lot of self-awareness. Over time though you can see how she's been able to grow emotionally and fight her patterns. She helped me to put together two letters to my ex. My ex was actually pretty responsive both times though her response was pretty shallow compared to my letter. But eventually she did disappear again and then become very angry and hurtful after she found out I talked to one of her friends. That's when I decided to give up. She pretty much went off on the deep end on me. I knew that wasn't exactly what I deserved. I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what happened, if I didn't really think we loved each other, and/or if we had gone to counseling to try and preserve the r/s or at least talk things out. Looking back I know that wouldn't have been possible, but at the time it seemed very hurtful to just disappear after all of the promises. I'm not sure we ever truly had an adult conversation or meeting of the minds while we were together.

I reached out to a few of her former friends and former co-workers who knew us at the time. I really just wondered if she was unhappy and I didn't recognize it. Did I miss something? Was I really at fault? Did she love me? They all pretty much told me the same thing. That she was very happy with me. They were all surprised at how fast she fell for me. But they also recognized that her previous relationships were extreme and she was never able to accept any responsibility for them. I found her blog sometime last year, and can definitely see the chaos there, idealizing, depression, etc. The fact that her relationships still have never worked out.

Looking back, I do wish I would have moved on faster. I worked hard to figure things out because I believed she loved me as much as I loved her. It's just not easy when you're relatively normal and you think you're on the same page, soulmates, and you already have a family. She practically let me adopt her baby daughter and had her calling me "daddy" very early on. With 2 divorces and a child at the age of 24 y/o... .my mind should have defeated my compassion. Love and wisdom don't often go together is something my T said. I think romance is over-idealized. "True love" is supposedly the ultimate way to find happiness and fulfillment... .but the media and pop culture idealize the passion, romance, and the "good feelings" but COMMITMENT and MATURITY don't sell movie tickets or bring in the ratings. I've definitely learned a lot. I think peace is really what I'm looking for out of life and in a partner and I believe I'll find it now. If I somehow stayed with my ex either it wouldn't have lasted or I would have been miserable and recognized it despite the "romance" at some point.

[heartandwhole]

findingmyselfagain,

That was a moving post, thank you for sharing it.  You've really done some great work, and I felt a lot of strength in your words.

"True love" is supposedly the ultimate way to find happiness and fulfillment... .but the media and pop culture idealize the passion, romance, and the "good feelings" but COMMITMENT and MATURITY don't sell movie tickets or bring in the ratings. I've definitely learned a lot. I think peace is really what I'm looking for out of life and in a partner and I believe I'll find it now. If I somehow stayed with my ex either it wouldn't have lasted or I would have been miserable and recognized it despite the "romance" at some point.

I think this is so wise.  I used to be a romantic, and now I can't be bothered with the fairy tale - I'm no longer a believer, and it feels great. 

Some people think peace is boring, but I think it's radical and what everyone is looking for.

I'm happy for you, finding. 

[findingmyselfagain]

heartandwhole,

Thank you! I have to say I'm not quite thriving yet, but I believe I'll get there. That's what counts. The easier I am on myself, the easier it gets. Peace is definitely what I'm looking for, after having a good dose of "not peace". The cynical part of me believes that the idea of "romance" is as much to keep jewelers and restaurants in business and put another "must-have" in the demands on a relationship which may or may not truly be necessary. Either the relationship is healthy and growing, or it isn't.

I think "romance" can be a part of a healthy relationship, but to me it's even more romantic and attractive to know I have a healthy, caring partner who is committed to me. That's what real romance is to me. The fancy bells and whistles are really just that. All that said, I do try to do my part, but I definitely think peace, maturity, and commitment are under-valued.

[Changingman]

I've found this post really enlightening.

Bless you all for your pain, I wish us all well.

Just occurred to me, that the disfunction in RSs that they have causes those around them to get into odd conections socially. You meet her old boyfriends... .why? What do you share. Triangulation... .deal with it. People who have a completely different perception of them, people they are sleeping with/have that you know nothing about. Peoples perception of you untrue.

Socially they form disfunctional connections between people that reflect the disfunctional connections in their thinking/feeling/brain.

The trouble they cause... .no one knows quite what is real anymore, just something odd in the background, unseen.

I met a guy who had been in a RS with a Bpd and he said

If his BPD found a phone unattended amongst his friends he would send a text saying how they hated him.

He wondered why 30 friends were having a problem with him. When he asked them they said I never sent you that and compared phones.

Calculated and not calculated!

Jesus, what is this stuff

[Changingman]

Hope that made sense, the guy was gay... .the BPD not really anything sexually.

Nothing has meaning if you have no sense of self, empathy, boundaries... .the uncontainable, no shape, just soft jello forming what ever shape the environment has.

[findingmyselfagain]

Changingman,

It's surreal how similar and how confusing all of our experiences are. I can't wrap my head around my r/s except to recognize it as textbook BPD. The articles have been very accurate as far as my experience. I wish I hadn't spent as much time trying to figure things out and moved on faster. I really did think it was true love. I've started to take a more holistic view of life. I don't necessarily believe in fate, but I do think our families and childhoods can set us up for certain tendencies and patterns. Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to recognize that you are in fact on the wrong path. I may have a long journey ahead of me. My patience is a lot thinner than it used to be. I don't work as hard to reach out to others who aren't making the effort to stay in my life. I've realized reliability and maturity are important to me. I may be missing out on some dating relationships and friendships I could have had, but I'm looking for a woman who is mature, emotionally stable and has good life skills. It'll be worth the journey to break some of my patterns and my family patterns and to find relative peace.

[Pretty Woman]

Findingmyself,

  I echo your statement. I was thinking the same thing. Even though my ex is not diagnosed all the patterns I experienced are almost verbatim on this board. I can beat myself up for not knowing what to do with her or this relationship or I can accept maybe there was nothing I could have done.

She will not get help. She said once she would go to counceling with me and then as soon as we were back together that was forgotten.

She knows she has an issue, she was put on meds for ADHD once and did not like how they made her feel. Obviously there are issues she knows about and has to deal with regularly.

Without getting treatment things do not change. More people just get hurt. It is sad. It really is but again, only we can stop the recycles. Don't initiate, don't respond. Just be. Live life.