My own PD

[damage control]

All the reading I have done on BPD and PAD (in particular) have prompted me to start wondering/thinking that it's not just my ex who has a PD. I think I may be sitting pretty on that scale also. Someone at work was introducing me to a new person yesterday and they said "Oh, you will love DC ... she has the personality of four people". And this is true ... .

I would actually think that I had BPD if it wasn't for the behaviour/s of splitting and devaluing when my fears are triggered; I don't do these things. When my abandonment is triggered (and I don't just have abandonment issues, I have MASSIVE abandonment issues), I cannot breathe but I don't run, don't replace, don't do any of that. I also don't externally rage ... although my self-loathing is something to behold.

Early relationship intensity is also a calling-card of mine. My latest ex once said to me that 'things are very intense with you DC' ... this was not only very early in the RS but also ... not the first time it had been said to me. It seems to be a recurring theme for me ... another ex once described me as 'easy to fall in love with' ... but, even though he was being sweet/nice ... the thing is, he cheated on me, as did my current ... so that really points to the fact that perhaps I mirror well and am easy to fall for ... but I am not easy to really love ... .and my choice of men who cannot really love me or who are afraid to really commit - that seems to speak volumes about me also.

The other issue/s tied to BPD ... the destruction, the abandoning of situations without a look back (jobs, houses etc), the inability to maintain a calm or productive/normal life - I have this and always have. The drug abuse (I have been there), the self-soothing with sex (been there also), running away, self-destruction/harm ... all things I have done and do. I also have an absent sense of real self - I have a large personality but at my core ... I don't know who I am. I am not sure I have or ever have had a stable emotional baseline ... I can detach and feel nothing or attach and be completely engulfed by my emotions.

My attachment/fear of abandonment is only with romantic RS's. With friends/family etc ... I can and do easily walk away ... often without a second thought. I barely speak to my family and although I am pretty sure I love them ... I don't need or even want to be in contact with them. I stay in contact with my 2 sons but I sometimes wonder about my abilities as a mother - my detachment ... I love them ... but I am OK to not see them ... .(they are in their 20's). I would never deliberately hurt anybody and my sense of empathy is highly developed - this fact alone has always stopped me from thinking I had a PD ...

I also have a selection of ex's who I 'recycle' when I am feeling in need of soothing ...

I hide this all very well ... people think I am together and whenever this type of comment is mentioned to me, inside I dismiss the person commenting as stupid or having no idea about me at all ... .even the times I have tried therapy, the therapist will often comment that I seem to have a handle on everything and know what I am about - nothing could be further from the truth.

I have spent over a month on these boards trying to untie the paradox that is my ex and his behaviour ... but now I am scared that I am just as broken as he is.

I have hurt and continue to hurt those who love me with my dismissive and detached behaviour ... the ONLY exception to this are my romantic attachments ... these I feel intensely and overwhelmingly ...

I am scared of what this all means and looking at the puzzle pieces, I don't think it means anything good.

[damage control]

I have just done 3 online diagnostic tests for BPD and scored high on all of them. How reliable are these tests?

I DON'T devalue/discard in my romantic attachments - this is the thing I am clinging to here ... I don't do this ... well ... I did it with my kids dad most LTR but that was after many years and whole lot of other stuff going on.

But I do it to others.

I think maybe I also mirror ... .I just never realised it ...

I am someone who can strike up a conversation with a stranger in a train or an elevator without any problems at all ... but, I often say and I always feel that 99.5% of people are completely uninteresting to me, even though I feign interest ... .I simply don't care about the majority of people I meet/encounter - I am completely indifferent. The ONLY time this isn't true is if I have a sexual/romantic attraction - and then they become everything.

I don't rage outwardly ... .I don't devalue/discard ... I don't replace. Surely that means something right?

[seeking balance]

I am scared of what this all means and looking at the puzzle pieces, I don't think it means anything good.

Changing is scary stuff - congrats on you for looking in the mirror.  Maybe try not to label as good or bad, simply as it is who you are and maybe you want to change some of your patterns is all.

Whether PD or not, DBT is fantastic for everyone.  Perhaps take a look at Marsha Linehan and pick up one of the DBT skills books to learn some new coping tools.  Many of us here have BPD traits or poor coping skills - the key is we wanted to change and focused on doing that.

Are you in T now?

[damage control]

Hi SB

Thanks for the response.

I have just started T ... only one session so far and one booked for this week. I only have 6 from my referral so, I may have to follow up with more ... I booked in to help me with my reaction/s to my recent breakup but now ...

[peacebaby]

Being with someone who's messed up can help us realize how messed up we are. It's a gift.

 

A diagnosis can help but really, all that matters is we work on our sh!t. 

[damage control]

I am reluctant to see this as a gift - his legacy I mean but I get what you are saying PeaceBaby.

[Surnia]

Hi DC

Since you are working with a T you have the possibility to speak with him/her about it. I would do so, better than rely on online tests.

Speaking with a T will give you a feedback and suggestions too.

What do you think about it?

[goldylamont]

i think it would be good to talk to your T, but also your friends and family, and your sons to see how they feel. i think this can maybe help to get an outside opinion from those who care about you but can still be honest.

you are forgetting one other BPD trait which is dishonesty/lying. everyone lies to a certain degree, but do you feel like you have been more dishonest than average? and if so why?

[KE151]

I think maybe I also mirror ... .I just never realised it ...

I think everyone mirrors to some extent, right? The human body has a function that is created for this, the mirror cells. It is necessary for social survival. Mirroring happens with almost everyone when they are romantically interested in another person.

I think the fact that you're on this board is pretty solid proof that you're not BPD. You are able to honestly look at your own behavior and are willing to change. IMO when telling about yourself, you're describing behavior that's pretty normal for someone who is intense in their r/s's and life in general. You're being too hard on yourself and you're maybe looking for a way out of the current pain by blaming yourself for the collapse of the r/s. I've done the same, asked the same questions, and I even went to a shrink and asked him if I was the one with BPD or something else. After two sessions he concluded that no, I'm not NPD or BPD but I do have co-dependant traits.

I think it's important to look at ourselves but the answer is not self blame... .Take Care DC.

[damage control]

Hi DC

Since you are working with a T you have the possibility to speak with him/her about it. I would do so, better than rely on online tests.

Speaking with a T will give you a feedback and suggestions too.

What do you think about it?

Hi Surnia ... I am definitely going to bring it up with my T ...

[damage control]

i think it would be good to talk to your T, but also your friends and family, and your sons to see how they feel. i think this can maybe help to get an outside opinion from those who care about you but can still be honest.

you are forgetting one other BPD trait which is dishonesty/lying. everyone lies to a certain degree, but do you feel like you have been more dishonest than average? and if so why?

MY sons know I am not 'normal' in many ways (I use that term lightly). My youngest sent me a text a few moths back:

Dear Mother ... was wondering what city/state/country you are currently in and if you are still alive? Sincerely, your youngest.

It was obviously tongue-in-cheek but ... it kinda wasn't.

I can't ask my family (well, I only have a sister and 2 brothers, no parents) as we are currently not speaking - about a year now ... this is my doing ... before this I went 7 years without contacting them because they 'bored me'.

As for dishonesty GL ... yes and no. I am not a pathological liar ... but my 'honesty' is definitely questionable. I find it difficult to see what the problem is with things that others seem to find unethical ... I lack ethics if you like ... my moral compass is bent at best. I don't really 'get' the big fuss over things that others get all bent out of shape about ... .

I also have an absolute fear of the suburbs, home ownership, white picket fences and people (men) who are 'grown up' and have long-term stable incomes and expensive cars etc ... they terrify me.

The other thing worrying me is that I have very few boundaries and am not good at recognising them in others - although I have a talent for transgressing them  ... people often comment that I am 'good with people' ... but this is really because I simply don't understand boundaries rather than any real ability with people.

I am not trying to be melodramatic here ... it has never ever occured to me that I had anything other than big abandonment issues ... I have always know that.

[damage control]

I think maybe I also mirror ... .I just never realised it ...

I think everyone mirrors to some extent, right? The human body has a function that is created for this, the mirror cells. It is necessary for social survival. Mirroring happens with almost everyone when they are romantically interested in another person.

I think the fact that you're on this board is pretty solid proof that you're not BPD. You are able to honestly look at your own behavior and are willing to change. IMO when telling about yourself, you're describing behavior that's pretty normal for someone who is intense in their r/s's and life in general. You're being too hard on yourself and you're maybe looking for a way out of the current pain by blaming yourself for the collapse of the r/s. I've done the same, asked the same questions, and I even went to a shrink and asked him if I was the one with BPD or something else. After two sessions he concluded that no, I'm not NPD or BPD but I do have co-dependant traits.

I think it's important to look at ourselves but the answer is not self blame... .Take Care DC.

Hi KE ... I guess we all do mirror ... .I don't know how to tell what is healthy/normal/reasonable though and what is more?

As for being willing to look at my own behaviour and be willing to change ... I didn't come here for that ... I came here looking to make sense of the train wreck that became the end of my relationship ...

It was only 7 weeks ago that I walked out of a share house - without even a goodbye to my room mate ... left my things with a neighbour and got on a plane to the other side of the country ... because I could no longer stand 'not knowing' WTH was going on with him and me ... to me it seemed perfectly reasonable to do this but ... now I am stuck in this situation - which is crazy... it was an impetuous decision but far from my first or my worst.

I don't think it fruitful to go into every disaster I have made over the years but I have swung from extreme high to extreme low ... often in the blink of an eye ... I am in a good job, doing well and all of a sudden I cannot breathe and the boredom is overwhelming or, some other reason and I just walk away ... often leaving houses, friends etc as well as a salary ...

I am absolutely looking to make sense of my pain ... as for blaming myself ... I do ... but ...

I was going to write something else here but ... it just looks a bit weird when I write it so I am going to let it go ...

I hope that the fact that I am wondering if I am BPD means that I am not ... which I think is what you are saying.

[seeking balance]

Hi SB

Thanks for the response.

I have just started T ... only one session so far and one booked for this week. I only have 6 from my referral so, I may have to follow up with more ... I booked in to help me with my reaction/s to my recent breakup but now ...

Good job starting T!

If I were in your shoes with what I know now, I would be brutally honest with your T about your life and your feelings to the best of your ability.  No big worry about a major diagnosis right away - it will take your T some time to sort through your story.  In the mean time, try not to worry so much about whether or not you have BPD.  If you do, it will take time and DBT can do wonders... .if you don't, you still have some big issues you talk about that will take time and DBT can do wonders... .either way, there is some time and tools needed to help you learn to manage your emotions in ways that might make you feel better about yourself.

The other thing I would do if I were in your shoes is pick up Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach mindfulness practice can help you quite a bit right now.

Most of us here have looked at our patterns and wondered if we were BPD or not.  Some folks turned out to be and some folks didn't - either way, everyone had to learn new skills on handling their emotions, proper boundaries and communications... .true change does take some time and tears.

Hang in there!

SB

[Turkish]

I think I share a few of the traits that you listed... .especially becoming easily attached, and then detaching easily (possibly goes with being in four different homes, or with 4 sets of caregivers before I was 3). I do, however, have several life-long friendships that are close. Others, however, I have left, or they have left with little to no emotion on my part. I once convinced myself that I was Schizoid (a number of years ago), but I have worked through a lot of my own social anxiety and other things over the past decade. I'll echo what others said: don't put too much into online tests, or even self-diagnosis. As my T reminds me, "not everything needs to be pathologized!"

[ucmeicu2]

hi DC, i see you're doing a lot of inner work and i feel your pain, as i (as probably most of us here) have looked closely at what Dx's we "nons" might have.  sometimes i feel a bit silly saying i'm a "non" especially when it's capitalized "Non", hehe.  a "non" of what exactly?  i think it's safe to say that we all have "something" going on, or else we would not be here.  we'd have listened to our inner voice, took note of the red flags and acted on them by not engaging w/ a pwBPD.  we wouldn't be in such horrible pain at the loss ~ we'd just "move on" as everyone suggests and as, quite likely, we have done w/our past r/s's.

so, i think you're doing very brave work, and show a lot of moxy by posting this here to explore ~ i applaud you!

some might say "don't self diagnose", but why?  unless we have that anastognia thing (sp) (total denial) ... .who knows us better than ourself?  if we truly ARE our own GURU, as i've seen mentioned here on more than one occasion (oops i guess it was me, once,    well if we are our own guru, then we can trust ourselves.

i'd say NOT trusting ourselves is a BIG part of why i (we) are in this mess now.  this ugly aftermath.

OK, on to the more technical stuff i want to impart.  a lot of the stuff, the behaviors of our pwBPD, that we talk abt here are interesting and it can be healing, but it's not part of the BPD per se. i think, you know, a lot of times our circles of discussion get larger and larger, further and further away from the bullseye of "BPD" criterion, but we keep attributing all of it to BPD, when clearly that isn't the case.  it might be another PD, esp N, or it might be a common comorbid, or it (most likely) is just yet another irritating human trait!   

as you probably already know (and just need a gentle reminder) in order to be Dx'ed BPD one MUST meet 5 of the 9 criteria from the DSM.  period.  google it. 

and after therapy, DBT, mindfulness, etc, if one of those 5 drops off, guess what?  no longer a pwBPD.  i do not see a Dx of BPD as a lifetime sentence.  a willingness to look inward and work hard on what you find there goes a LONG LONG WAY towards healing.  but if the willingness isn't there, then no amount of therapy, DBT etc will help.

i heartedly encourage you on your journey ~ ucmeicu2   

[bb12]

Hey DC

Fantastic that you are so vulnerable and willing to share

My exposure to BPD has become the greatest blessing of my life for the very thing you have documented here: the warts and all inspection of self. I would much rather have encountered someone so bafflingly cruel that I was forced to question my attraction and reasons for staying, than to never have met him. Imagine bumbling along the rest of our lives oblivious to our own issues and trauma! Education, awareness, consciousness ushers in change. The very fact you are questioning the degree of your own damage (PD or not) is great!

Keep going. Post here often. You have a friendly and safe audience who will also grow from your observations.

My own view is a bit yin and yang on the issue of BPD. I feel my issues were as severe as my ex's - the opposite side of the same coin. His ability to take and think of himself first was the counter to my inability to receive, know what I wanted, or put myself first. His ability to withdraw like it meant nothing, the counter to my excessive neediness and the feeling that it meant everything.

I agree with other posters here ... .ditch the labels. Just explore your psychology with an open heart and a tonne of courage.

The rewards are life-changing



bb12

[damage control]

@SeekingBalance

Thanks for your thoughts and advice. I see my T tonight and I guess between this and what is happening with my ex and my life right now, we have much to discuss.

@Turkish

I have no life-long friends at all ... my longest GF married my LT ex (kids's dad) over 11 years ago now and she refused to have anything to do with me once they hooked up.

I am trying not to pathologise ... and I agree, not everything does need to be, nor should it be.

Thanks

@ucmeicu2

Agreed - I think most of us here do probably have 'something' going on. I have always known that my abandonment stuff was extreme ... .the rest of it ... .well ... people always say that I am 'intense' or somthing of that nature but the fact is, nobody has seen every facet of my behaviour/s - except my LT ex ... my kids' dad saw all of it - and he loved me anyway ... we were together for 15 years but fairly early in I devalued him (not without cause) and was always somewhat contemptuous of him ... sounds awful ...

Thank you for saying to 'trust myself' ... I don't trust my instincts most of the time because they have led me to do some fairly crazy things in the past - well, the present as well ... packing up and coming across the country to 'find out' about my (recent) ex - to 'see' how things would go ... .and most of all - the main reason - because I simply couldn't stand being in a LDR without him for a moment longer ... .well ... that was pretty crazy as well when I think about it.

I keep meeting 7 of the criteria ... although, some of that behaviour has receded somewhat, although not as much as I would like ... .self-destruction, for example, comes in many guises. I have been told many times that I am self-destructive and I have always dismissed this - I considered myself 'spontaneous' or similar ... but, really, when I stopped to look at it the other night ... it's destruction.

I am still a bit shocked by all of this ... .I swing from thinking that yes, I definitely have this (and it explains so much of my life and inability to 'handle' my emotions) to thinking that I am indeed pathologising and I am just an emotional person ... as are many people, including most of us here.

I am not even sure that a diagnosis -one way or the other - will have any impact. It won't change the train-wreck I am living, it won't give me a second chance to fix all of the relationships I have mowed through (I am talking about friends/family here mainly) and it won't give me any more control over my emotional responses/reactions ... it won't change anything per se.

[damage control]

Hi BB

Thanks for your support.

I agree that there is much to be said for being forced to confront our own psychic demons ... .

I am not sure I will ever fully get over the betrayal of this relationship ... .I don't think anybody has ever so calculatingly mislead or deceived me and I am a different person for that experience - not necessarily better as my trust/abandonment stuff was extreme to begin with. In a way, he has served to 'confirm' my worst fears about the world and the people in it ... he personifies my indifferent/absent father and, like him, is oblivious to the damage he has done.

[Turkish]

I keep meeting 7 of the criteria ... although, some of that behaviour has receded somewhat, although not as much as I would like ... .self-destruction, for example, comes in many guises. I have been told many times that I am self-destructive and I have always dismissed this - I considered myself 'spontaneous' or similar ... but, really, when I stopped to look at it the other night ... it's destruction.

Are you sure you aren't being too hard on youself dc? The SD tendencies to me seem like substance abuse, cutting, self harm and the like. Self-sabotage is another thing, I think, and am guilty of that in some way... .or at least not living up to my potential, or backing away from being successful at things, some of which should be easy for me.

[Turkish]

Agreed - I think most of us here do probably have 'something' going on. I have always known that my abandonment stuff was extreme ... .

My "something" has been being attracted to troubled people, women specifically. Even in platonic friendships. The abandonment thing I should have. I often feel like telling my X that my birth mother abandoned me into foster care due to her addictions, my adoptive mother due to her mental illness and not addressing it until I left the home at 18, and now my X (in reality, as opposed to me abandoning her in her mind, which caused her to abandon me in reality, though she's still trying to keep me in her life).

Still, I trust women! Y'all aren't a bad lot... .but I need to stop engaging with the troubled ones. That might mean I may become more cynical and less empathetic, perhaps. Or it might mean that I need to learn to put up clear boundaries and stick by them, not worrying what anyone else things. I think this is the right place to learn that, so thanks everybody.

[bb12]

I am not sure I will ever fully get over the betrayal of this relationship ... .I don't think anybody has ever so calculatingly mislead or deceived me and I am a different person for that experience - not necessarily better as my trust/abandonment stuff was extreme to begin with. In a way, he has served to 'confirm' my worst fears about the world and the people in it ... he personifies my indifferent/absent father and, like him, is oblivious to the damage he has done.

Same. I didn't mean to underplay the devastation we experience - because it is horrific. But my ability to sit in pain and tolerate mixed emotions is far greater from this episode. My own emotional maturity levels have changed and that's an interesting and positive development.

But yeah, my exBPD did the same. Disappeared without explanation, subjected me to some very hurtful and passive aggressive behaviour like silent treatment and never yielded. And that level of indifference, dismissiveness, diminishing, and invalidation is not overcome easily. In truth I am still not over it. I had a neurotic Mum and absent father, and love was performance-based - a thing to be earned and not given freely. I am sure that my inability to actually perform and DO something to win back the affections of my xBPD yanked the scab off that same core wound. But even knowing that doesn't necessary remove the pain. It does however teach us to live with multiple and conflicting emotions at the same time, and that acceptance and tolerance feels a lot like growth and maturity.

Bb12

[damage control]

I keep meeting 7 of the criteria ... although, some of that behaviour has receded somewhat, although not as much as I would like ... .self-destruction, for example, comes in many guises. I have been told many times that I am self-destructive and I have always dismissed this - I considered myself 'spontaneous' or similar ... but, really, when I stopped to look at it the other night ... it's destruction.

Are you sure you aren't being too hard on youself dc? The SD tendencies to me seem like substance abuse, cutting, self harm and the like. Self-sabotage is another thing, I think, and am guilty of that in some way... .or at least not living up to my potential, or backing away from being successful at things, some of which should be easy for me.

No ... I am not being too hard.

I have attempted suicide several times. I have large scars on my wrists - and that particular time I cut deeply about 5 inches long into each wrist with a razor and took a massive dose of morphine as well. It wasn't the only time.

When I mean self-destructive, I am not only referring to this ... I have done some amazingly stupid things - I walked out of an academic career and a PhD scholarship after a RS breakdown once and took up a drug habit instead ... I am honestly not looking at small mistakes/risks and overreacting. I have had to replace entire households of furnishings etc more than once because I have simply 'abandoned' a property ... I am not being too hard, not by a long shot.

I am telling myself that I am not so extreme anymore but really ... look at where I am currently, the situation I am in and how I got here.

My self-harm is much better, it has been a long time since I attempted suicide and although the thoughts/desire is there, I medicate myself through those times now - the feelings/desire is still there, but I don't head straight for the razor blades anymore.

Having said that, earlier this year I resorted to cutting to self-soothe ... it wasn't extreme or life-threatening or anything like that, but I have some pretty new scars to add to my collection.

I could give more examples but, you get the picture I am sure.

[damage control]

Agreed - I think most of us here do probably have 'something' going on. I have always known that my abandonment stuff was extreme ... .

My "something" has been being attracted to troubled people, women specifically. Even in platonic friendships. The abandonment thing I should have. I often feel like telling my X that my birth mother abandoned me into foster care due to her addictions, my adoptive mother due to her mental illness and not addressing it until I left the home at 18, and now my X (in reality, as opposed to me abandoning her in her mind, which caused her to abandon me in reality, though she's still trying to keep me in her life).

Still, I trust women! Y'all aren't a bad lot... .but I need to stop engaging with the troubled ones. That might mean I may become more cynical and less empathetic, perhaps. Or it might mean that I need to learn to put up clear boundaries and stick by them, not worrying what anyone else things. I think this is the right place to learn that, so thanks everybody.

I am also attracted to troubled people - but also, I am NOT attracted to people who have their sh^t together ... I just don't feel that 'pull' (I am sure you know what I am talking about).

My abandonment is massive. And as my losses have continued throughout my life, it has been compounded over and over - it is the one thing I don't think will ever be 'fixed', no matter how much T or self-examination I do.

And yes ... boundaries ... those things that many of us struggle with (again). I don't have clear boundaries,  I don't 'get' boundaries -as in I don't know what mine should be, don't understand how to have clearer ones because I don't recognise when mine are being transgressed and/or I am transgressing other people's. People say things like - He is using you or... you need to not take his calls/spend time with him and I don't cognitively 'get' why not ...

But it sounds like you are perhaps a bit more aware of the specifics of how to address your own issues Turkish. That is a good thing. It's a great thing.

[Turkish]

Agreed - I think most of us here do probably have 'something' going on. I have always known that my abandonment stuff was extreme ... .

My "something" has been being attracted to troubled people, women specifically. Even in platonic friendships. The abandonment thing I should have. I often feel like telling my X that my birth mother abandoned me into foster care due to her addictions, my adoptive mother due to her mental illness and not addressing it until I left the home at 18, and now my X (in reality, as opposed to me abandoning her in her mind, which caused her to abandon me in reality, though she's still trying to keep me in her life).

Still, I trust women! Y'all aren't a bad lot... .but I need to stop engaging with the troubled ones. That might mean I may become more cynical and less empathetic, perhaps. Or it might mean that I need to learn to put up clear boundaries and stick by them, not worrying what anyone else things. I think this is the right place to learn that, so thanks everybody.

I am also attracted to troubled people - but also, I am NOT attracted to people who have their sh^t together ... I just don't feel that 'pull' (I am sure you know what I am talking about).

I'm attracted to such people... .I just stay away from them since I don't feel like I could establish a connection. So that is similar.

My abandonment is massive. And as my losses have continued throughout my life, it has been compounded over and over - it is the one thing I don't think will ever be 'fixed', no matter how much T or self-examination I do.

And yes ... boundaries ... those things that many of us struggle with (again). I don't have clear boundaries,  I don't 'get' boundaries -as in I don't know what mine should be, don't understand how to have clearer ones because I don't recognise when mine are being transgressed and/or I am transgressing other people's. People say things like - He is using you or... you need to not take his calls/spend time with him and I don't cognitively 'get' why not ...

But it sounds like you are perhaps a bit more aware of the specifics of how to address your own issues Turkish. That is a good thing. It's a great thing.

Maybe. Maybe aware of them... .not sure yet how to address them to change. I still feel the need to do a "waif rescue."

As for your other post about the self-harm... .that is a lot of pain to deal with, and I'm sorry. It is good that you are open and feel safe enough to post it here. My own SI was last winter, where I was so despondent sometimes, I thought about doing something like elderly Eskimos do, go out on an ice flow to not burden the tribe. I thought a lot about stripping off most of my clothes on a cold night and just walk into the hills until I couldn't walk anymore. Would she care? They'd be financially set. I can't believe I thought that. But I will admit that sometimes I think it would be better if I just dropped dead of a heart attack (or something) to not deal with this drama, and the coming drama when my X finally moves out (i am driving myself nuts trying to option all of the legal angles regarding our kids, custody and child support... .as well as her increasing mental instability). The kids would be fine financially, and if they have half the strength I had, they'll surrive a crazy mother, too. And then likely be posting here in 25-30 years... .

[damage control]

Agreed - I think most of us here do probably have 'something' going on. I have always known that my abandonment stuff was extreme ... .

My "something" has been being attracted to troubled people, women specifically. Even in platonic friendships. The abandonment thing I should have. I often feel like telling my X that my birth mother abandoned me into foster care due to her addictions, my adoptive mother due to her mental illness and not addressing it until I left the home at 18, and now my X (in reality, as opposed to me abandoning her in her mind, which caused her to abandon me in reality, though she's still trying to keep me in her life).

Still, I trust women! Y'all aren't a bad lot... .but I need to stop engaging with the troubled ones. That might mean I may become more cynical and less empathetic, perhaps. Or it might mean that I need to learn to put up clear boundaries and stick by them, not worrying what anyone else things. I think this is the right place to learn that, so thanks everybody.

I am also attracted to troubled people - but also, I am NOT attracted to people who have their sh^t together ... I just don't feel that 'pull' (I am sure you know what I am talking about).

I'm attracted to such people... .I just stay away from them since I don't feel like I could establish a connection. So that is similar.

My abandonment is massive. And as my losses have continued throughout my life, it has been compounded over and over - it is the one thing I don't think will ever be 'fixed', no matter how much T or self-examination I do.

And yes ... boundaries ... those things that many of us struggle with (again). I don't have clear boundaries,  I don't 'get' boundaries -as in I don't know what mine should be, don't understand how to have clearer ones because I don't recognise when mine are being transgressed and/or I am transgressing other people's. People say things like - He is using you or... you need to not take his calls/spend time with him and I don't cognitively 'get' why not ...

But it sounds like you are perhaps a bit more aware of the specifics of how to address your own issues Turkish. That is a good thing. It's a great thing.

Maybe. Maybe aware of them... .not sure yet how to address them to change. I still feel the need to do a "waif rescue."

As for your other post about the self-harm... .that is a lot of pain to deal with, and I'm sorry. It is good that you are open and feel safe enough to post it here. My own SI was last winter, where I was so despondent sometimes, I thought about doing something like elderly Eskimos do, go out on an ice flow to not burden the tribe. I thought a lot about stripping off most of my clothes on a cold night and just walk into the hills until I couldn't walk anymore. Would she care? They'd be financially set. I can't believe I thought that. But I will admit that sometimes I think it would be better if I just dropped dead of a heart attack (or something) to not deal with this drama, and the coming drama when my X finally moves out (i am driving myself nuts trying to option all of the legal angles regarding our kids, custody and child support... .as well as her increasing mental instability). The kids would be fine financially, and if they have half the strength I had, they'll surrive a crazy mother, too. And then likely be posting here in 25-30 years... .

I am also sorry that you know that pain. It's often a weird mix of seriously just not wanting to be bothered anymore and not thinking that I can keep dealing with the emotional pain. When I detached from romantic attachment for 7 years, I was better - not great, and all-but dead inside, but better ... my ex woke up all the pain and despair all over again ... and it's a horrible place to be.

I have been diagnosed over and over (have been put in psych wards a couple of times but always released quickly and been told I am 'fine' with clinical depression but, treatment never really worked ... .meds, on and off for years but ... they never really worked. I am not depressed ... I can go from suicidal thoughts to a party and be happy and sparkly at that party, come home and get depressed all over again ... sometimes I collapse into the depression (I have told people it's like having 'the black' seduce me, of wanting to just fall into it) ... sometimes I keep it at bay. I don't think it is my primary issue as I have always been told ...

For the record, as am I sure you know, your kids would not be better of with some money and the legacy of a suicided(?) father. My kids were/are what stops me from seriously considering suicide. I have done enough to them, they put up with enough from me ... .if the only thing I can really give them is my refusal to leave them with guilt/pain over losing me that way then, I will do that.

[Turkish]

For the record, as am I sure you know, your kids would not be better of with some money and the legacy of a suicided(?) father. My kids were/are what stops me from seriously considering suicide. I have done enough to them, they put up with enough from me ... .if the only thing I can really give them is my refusal to leave them with guilt/pain over losing me that way then, I will do that.

Thanks, damage control, I know... .I threw it out there a few weeks ago just to mess with her (though the feeling inside of me was honest), and she said, "you're better than that!"

It sucks to think that because I am so high functioning, it enables her to be low functioning, justifying in her mind abandoning the kids a lot. A no win situation. I do better with them (and they respond to and obey me better... .I have no problem laying down firm boundaries and being consistent) than she does and she knows it. I will have to work on parental alienation, though, since my mouth starts to slip quite a lot. That might be my downfall in my r/s with them, badmouthing their mother, even inadvertently.

How old are yours and how is your r/s with them now?

[Turkish]

For the record, as am I sure you know, your kids would not be better of with some money and the legacy of a suicided(?) father.

My birth mother killed herself due to substance abuse (drugs/alcohol), 7 years, I am told, after she and my father put me up for adoption. I was around 1 when they abandoned me (being purposely melodramatic here), and I don't remember them. I barely remember foster care before my mom adopted me when I was about 2.5.

My birth mother was Native American, and her adoptive sister thought she might have been Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, based upon my birth-aunts later education and experience in Social Work (I never talked to her... .my mom did once when I was a teen. Being a stupid teen, I said I didn't want to talk to my birth aunt and grandmother, so I never did. Now it's too late---- that was 25 years ago). My possible FAS mother never stood a chance. My mom was worried it was genetic, and freaked out the first time she saw me have a beer in my early 20s.

[damage control]

It's really important not to badmouth the other parent. I (used to, when the ex and I first split) remind myself that badmouthing him was tantamount (in their minds) to badmouthing them ... kids take things that way - my dad/mother - my DNA = 'me'. That made it much easier to not do it.

Mine are now in their early 20's. They have a relationship with their dad, but they are closer to me. My oldest romaticises me a bit ... he is grateful that he didn't have an 'ordinary' mother growing up ... but, my youngest, he loves me but sees me with a far clearer lens. I think he would have liked to have had a more traditional mother/upbringing. He has responded/reacted by being extremely together - he works at a good job, does competitive martial arts, travels etc ... my oldest - much more like me.

I have a good R/S with them insofar as we all keep contact, and are close.

It's problematic because we are strewn around the country and, I have begun to worry that neither of them has had a significant relationship yet. I fear that this is my fault. My oldest because I don't think anyone can live up to his (very skewed) view of his mother and my youngest because, well ... he may be terrified of ending up with someone like his mother.

[damage control]

That's a fair amount of family baggage Turkish - both emotional and physical.

I think my father was pathological, PD'd ... I barely knew him but he was a violent drunk (family legend has it that I got my first black eye at just 2 weeks old because he hit my mother so hard that I went flying out of her arms). But he was gone before I was 2 years old.

I saw him on and off pre-teen but, he was morose and kinda scary ... .hence my preoccupation with dark and somewhat dangerous men I think. My father died when I was 18 - drank himself to death. He was a sad and lonely person who was unable to connect with anybody, even his own daughter. Yuck.

Where we come from absolutely informs some of our fundamental beliefs about ourselves, of that I am certain. Some people seem to take this on board more than others ... I guess there is a combination of factors that make this so - how long/ongoing the trauma was, if it has been reinforced in later life, whether there were mitigating factors to reduce the trauma (having a stable adult around to counter-balance for example) etc ... etc ...

It's too late for me to ever resolve things with 'daddy' as well. This recent relationship, more than any other has made me realise that I have spent my sexually awake years trying to seduce my father (and making sure that even if I did, somehow, someway, he would reject me afterwards) ... my recent ex most closely resembles this I think because we never fought, I didn't do anything 'wrong' (far from it) ... the sex was intense and addictive and he is both emotionally corrupt and moreover, unwilling to admit that or change. Ca-ching! I hit the jackpot with him.

[Turkish]

That's a fair amount of family baggage Turkish - both emotional and physical.

Your story is worse than mine with a single BPD-like mother who was later diagnosed Depressive. She never trusted men, after her one engagement before she adopted me. I guess I got lucky not having her bring a series of males into my life, but I never had a father. Figuring it out on my own, and doing a good job so far by everyone's estimation. My mom's story was far worse. in that, I have a lot of compassion for her and forgive most of my childhood (I told her this once 17 years ago)... .after she "came out" about everything that went on. I find other things out now and then... .she told me this past year that her very physically abusive, alcoholic, and molesting father used to bring prostitutes into their home to live with them after her mom died when she was 12. Maybe his sexual abuse of her lessened at that point... .maybe not. I didn't ask.

I got her childhood "lite", minus the sexual abuse, thankfully, and no emotional incest that I can remember... .maybe some starting in my teens... .and the term may not qualify by that point since I was always very independent, but I'll take that over sexual abuse any day. The rage and mood swings, and always being smacked around or yelled at for something were common, along with her unconventional living style when I was 12, we moved to the forest with no electricity, running water, or heat, wasn't in a "home" again until I was 17 and about to graduate hs. Lived in a camper for one year in jh, and the first year of hs, slept on somone's couch in at least a cabin until my mom finally got a home again. There are also some other factors specific to me that affected my personality and what I had previously termed "Schizoid" avoidance style. I still have some of those traits linger.