Violent Temper rage episodes

[ogopogodude]

   I noticed that on these forums there is not a lot talk about BPD rage episodes. I mean the actual episode itself of the BPD afflicted person.

   When a rage was about to occur, my mate's eyes would glaze over and she would become a demon.  Validating her emotions verbally or trying to hug her was pointless. Then came the picking up of objects and throwing them across the room, or kicking or slamming doors ensued.  This would sometimes go on for hours on end.

    I reflect on the initiation of a "bad day"... and how there was non-sensible, unprovoked, one-sided arguing by my BPD wife which ultimately led to the violent temper rage. I did not really know what her problem was at the time (I had never heard of BPD). So. I would try to talk slowly and analytically with a peaceful voice to/with my mate down by talking calmly etc.

   But nothing worked. I would even whisper to calm things down & try to get her to lower her decibel level.

When the non-BPD person just knows that a rage is inevitable and going to occur, ... . I guess the best thing would have been to just literally RUN away... . yes?

     In my case, my mate would take the keys to the car, hold them and block the doorway and just want me to stay to argue with me... . it was soo bizarre.   It was really a control thing for her.

(I am so happy that I do not experience this nonsense anymore since I left her, but more importantly, my kids --who live with me now-- do not have to witness this crazy temper crap anymore).

Does anyone want to express their experiences of the actual rage episodes?

   

[ogopogodude]

   I learned to have my "trio" of personal effects with me or easily accessible: my car keys, my wallet, and my cell phone. I would more often than not, "prepare" for a rage or an argument by putting those items in my running shoe. Anyone do (or did) the same thing as me?

   When I saw my therapist for the 1st time, I put my trio of items up on a vertical curio furniture he had in his therapy room, and the 1st thing I said to him is that I was here about my troubled marriage. After shaking hands and he introductions, ... . within two to three minutes, he asked how tall my wife is and if she was "petite"/ small in stature. I said "yes"... . and then "why do you ask?" 

   He said "because I noticed that you have your get-away plan all ready to go"... . Then we started talking about BPD after that.

(I may have posted this experience with my therapist before but i cannot remember)

[State85]

I can truly relate to the rage episodes. Lasting for hours, objects thrown or destroyed (of mine), hitting, verbal abuse, and spitting. When these rages would start, my first inclination was to leave. If I was at her house, she would not let me leave. Even times she would yell for me to get out, and when I would try to leave, she would not let me... . almost tempting me to physically move her out of the way, which I didn't. If she was at my house, I could not get her to leave. Ya, it's a control thing... . she wasn't going to leave, or let me leave, until she felt she had won... . or beat me down to nothing.

[Monarch Butterfly]

The rage episodes I experienced were only when I tried to change his opinion on something that was really important to me, but he had other opinions on the subject. We could talk about everything, kids, car, dog, job, weather... . but when the subject was me... . Wham.

I had to be extremely happy ALL the time. And if I ever hinted that I was unhappy he just went off into another dimensions. I could tell it wasnt him behind the screaming, yelling, throwing stuff, hitting the walls, but I heck if I knew what it was. He usually was very logical and systematical, but when the rages started, it was definitely not him. His whole face goes out of proportion... I really cant explain it. When he was done I would be literally shaking with fear.

I didn't have an exit plan... . Nothing lined up. I didn't need to because I knew when the worst episodes were coming because in some sense, I "provoked" them. If stood up to what was good for me, he'd rage. So I knew when the terrible rages were about to happen. If I shut up, then the daily crap was liveable... . the daily crap was that the food wasn't good, the house wasn't clean, the kids weren't dressed well enough, i wasn't pretty enough... . and on and on and on. The more he complained, the harder I tried. So the daily crap was liveable (questionable... . ). The rages are not.

I am the one who usually left the conversation while he was still raging, but I could hardly walk I was nervous. Once I had to pick up the kids at school after one of his rages and I was so scared I thought I was going to wreck the car I was shaking so badly. I honestly don't know how I made it to school and back. I always had some piece of furniture between him and me: a couch, a table... . something. I made sure if I was going to try to stand up for myself, I had to plan well where the scenario would be.

I also thought once he had two personalities... . sometimes I still do.

The strange thing is that after the episodes, he would go to sleep, and actually be asleep within 5 minutes, and the next day act as if nothing ever happened. Heck if I could sleep... . I'd stay up all night crying. I locked myself in the bathroom once. If he would say something the next day it was: "you shouldn't have pushed my buttons the way you did".   Translating - if you keep bugging me about want is important for you: the possibility of work, seeing your family, questioning my lack of intimacy or our sex life, or even have friends over, that will be my reaction. Control freak... .

And all the other times not mentioned above he was so sweet.

[shellsh0cked]

I can relate with her trying to keep me there.  She wanted me to fight with her.  She wanted to push me to get physical with her... . so she'd have some leverage... . some more ammo to use against me in the next 40 times we fought.  Of course I never gave her the pleasure.  She got up in my face one night screaming at me after about 30 minutes... . she was convinced I was looking at her best friend's son's girlfriend... . she's 15.  Wow!  This isn't the first or second or twentieth time I had been accused of something atrocious like that.  Anyway... . I pushed her back away from me... . not hard... . but hard enough to see how she was letting this spiral into something physical.  I refused to let it happen.  I left... . She started calling me... . demanding I come back.  I told her I would not.  I wasn't gonna do that.  No way... . no how.  She was determined.  She texted hate to me for the next few hours till I snapped and let her have it... . I regret the things I said because I said them out of frustration and pain... . I broke it off with her... . again.  Should have been for the last time.  

[shellsh0cked]

And all the other times not mentioned above he was so sweet.

Yep... . people ask why I stayed with her... . She wasn't like this ALL the time.  Maybe 20% of the time.  But that 20% was so bad it made the 80% good not worth it.  The longer I stayed with her, the more violent and nasty the rages were.  She really left some mental scars on me that even almost 2 years later I still have to work through... . not so much that it is destroying my ability to be in a relationship... . or function, but I am still gun-shy from all the eggshell walking I did with her.  My current girlfriend is the TOTAL opposite of her, and the difference is amazing but for some reason it still hasn't sunk in completely that she isn't like her in any way... . even though I know she isn't... . Still expecting the anger and One of my friends said it best.  I was "traumatized" by her.  I have a feeling that many of you were too... .

[State85]

I really don't get them not letting you leave, especially after they get up into your face and yell as loud as they can... . telling you to leave. Then jump over furniture to block your way out of the house.

One particular instance I was at my ex house, she was raging as usual. I was wearing a ball cap, which she took off my head forcefully, pulled down her pants and rubbed it between her legs... . then said "now, your hat is covered in urine!" I was like What the heck just happened. She later washed the cap... . After I was able to leave, I went home and through the cap in the garbage.

Outrageous behavior... .

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex would rage without hesitation in crowded places like restaurants, and as everyone's heads would turn to look at us, I got pretty good at just calmly staring at her until she somewhat mellowed out, but those ended up being silent meals, with nothing I could say that would do anything but make her explode.  

Of course we all lose it sometimes, but mature adults usually keep a lid on it until you can have a real conversation in an appropriate place.  Nope.  You can call it a lack of ability to self soothe, the clinical description here, but I prefer lack of impulse control, just like a little kid.  Those episodes, along with how she connected best with teenagers and her overall cluelessness about the world, pegged her to be emotionally in her mid-teens, which explained a lot.

[santa]

Too many to list.

The defining trait I noticed most is that her eyes looked really sinister. She looked like she was possessed by a demon or something. Really scary stuff.

[shellsh0cked]

My xgf would start pointing two fingers at her eyes and then back at me... . or saying something "off color"... . The night she went to jail she was throwing things and me on stage... . while we were playing... . dancing provacatively (in a smarta$$ way)... . just to show out.  Like two different people... .

[ogopogodude]

It sounds strange but I feel better knowing that there were/are others that were as traumatized as me by these rages. It is comforting actually.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey ogopog,

Yes to all of the above for my BPDxW, whose behaviors were quite similar to what you describe: eyes like pinwheels, throwing and breaking things, blocking the door, pushing me to provoke violence, stalking me everywhere in our house, shouting, raging, punching a hole in the wall, breaking down doors, dumping water on my head while I was sleeping etc., etc.  Really a hellish experience.  I had no idea that there was such a thing as BPD so it took a long time to sort out what was happening, plus our kids were young at the time.

I kept an overnight bag in the car with a change of clothes, toothbrush, etc., in order to be ready to escape.  Spent many nights at the local motel, with her calling me all night.  Nightmare . . .

Only those who have been in a r/s with a pwBPD can relate, because it is so far beyond what others have experienced, in my view.

Fortunately, now divorced from BPDx with LC.  Ongoing issues, of course, but at least I'm no longer married to her.

Lucky Jim

[ogopogodude]

Theoretically, it would be so informative & revealing to actually have a EEG recording of the BPD person (that is just about to go into the rage, & during the rage, then post-rage). The brain activity would be quite interesting to interpret. To obtain an EEG recording, of course, would require a wiling BPD person to allow themselves to be "wired up" with electrodes to the surface of the brain, ... . then purposefully elicit an argument.

   Any neurosurgeons, specialists of some sort that can comment on this? I would imagine that the EEG would be like an epileptic seizure of the temporal lobes with lots of spikes of electrical activity during a rage.

[Naddred369]

This thread brought me to tears. It made me remember tottally the abuse and rage I had to put up with. I was told to leave and that she hated me, as I tried to go I was dragged back in, my things destroyed.gods, it was awful.I had a grab bag ready to go with important stuff in, a change of clothes in the car and my wallet, keys and phone right by my side of the bed at all times. Why the hell am I missing her? She nearly destroyed me!

Guys/ girls, we have lived through utter hell. Gods help us.

[shellsh0cked]

It sounds strange but I feel better knowing that there were/are others that were as traumatized as me by these rages. It is comforting actually.

Yep... . I felt so alone.  No one seemed to understand except one of my best buds.  Then I met a woman that had lived with a guy that was OBVIOUSLY BPD.  She had the male version of what I dealt with.  Very abusive mentally... . and somewhat physically too.  Nice girl too.  I'd dated her, but it is obvious she has a lot to work through still.  Says "I don't want to talk about it anymore after venting about it.  I am over it"... . after 3 months she is over it?  She may think she is, but the damage that BPDs do their significant others isn't something you get over over night.  If it was, this forum wouldn't exist now would it? 

[love4meNOTu]

Yea... me too guys.

I'll never forget his eyes. They were glazed over and just evil looking. There was so much hate spewing out of them.

Following me around the house screaming at me, holding me down so I had to "listen"... .

My flight instinct lit up like a firefly... I wanted to run away from him so badly. I locked myself in the bathroom he would force his way in. Damn that was the scariest time of my life.

I drove away from him a couple of times, which led to some serious unpleasantness when I came home. Towards the end though it was just silence after his rages, thank goodness. Just waited for the next one and worried about how I would deal if it was worse than the previous one.

The rages were worse every time they happened though. Every time he would push my boundaries just a little bit further. You know what, I'm going to give myself a pat on the back here because I got through that, divorced the arsehole and am getting on with my life.

I could barely handle 2 years with that man. Good luck to wife #4, she's gonna need it if he treats her like he did me.

L

[ogopogodude]

   When I reflect back on an episode and just remember it in my mind --minute by minute, second by second-- I can easily re-live the experience(s) so vividly. Then I weep uncontrollably. And here I am ... . almost 50 years old, ... a strong male at that... . I actually start to get choked up as I write this post. Am I just a wimp?

   Anyways, ... I am proud of myself for having the self control to not hit back, or choke her, or strangle her. The average man would have done that. I guess I am not the average man.

   Now, I can understand those men that actually DO hit back. I can have empathy for them. I was there, in the exact situation that they were in, ... . I just CHOSE to not hit back. It was all a choice thing. But, boy, ... . did I ever want to fight back with violence. I really did want to... .

    BTW, ... having a off-limits room or what I like to call a "SANCTUARY ROOM" as some BPD books talk about, ... . well, ... that just did not work. It just taunted my spouse into entering it or kicking down the door (or at least put holes into the door).


    (Which brings me to the topic of documentation. Video tape, ... people.  Use you iphone. Just do. I did. You have to protect yourself, & your livelihood, but most importantly, your children. A video tape using one's ipad mini or what ever sure helps if you ever need it)

[nevaeh]

My reactions... . same as others. 

Him?  Yes, his eyes bulging and glazed over, bright red face twisted with hatred, puffed out chest, clenched fists.  Mouth contorted while yelling horrible things two inches from my face. 

What triggered the rages?  Small, stupid, unimportant things.  As ogopogodude mentioned, I remember those rages vividly... . minute by minute, second by second.  I'm a female and I have hit him/shoved him out of complete and utter fear.  I feel for men in my same situation because you really don't have a good way to "fight back". 

Some examples:

When S13 was almost two years old he was put on a new medication for excema.  I was taking grad classes at the time so H was home with daughter (5 at the time) and son two nights per week.  I was on my way home from class one night about 9:00.  I had to make a quick stop so I called him when I was 8 minutes from home to let him know I would be home in a few minutes.  It was the first night for son to use cream and H had just put it on son and put him to bed.  All was quiet and calm.  Ten minutes later when I walked in the house, son was screaming bloody murder, H was ranting and storming all over the house (while holding screaming son).  He dumped him into my arms and then started screaming at me.  I asked what had happened and he told me to look at baby's stomach.  Baby had an allergic reaction to the cream and had broken out in hives everywhere and apparently had woken up crying.  H tried to give him benadryl (which was the right thing to do)... . but baby did not like to take medicine so when H tried to give it to him, baby freaked out.  H tried to mix it in to a bottle but baby had already had bottle so wasn't hungry (and was also screaming).  I walked into baby's room and it looked like a bomb had gone off, literally.  Every dresser drawer was pulled out and had been thrown all over the room.  There were clothes literally strewn all over the room (some even hanging on the ceiling fan).  I immediately freaked out and asked him what had happened... . he was screaming at me that there were no clean pajamas anywhere in the house and he was trying to find some effing pajamas.  I walked into our room and pulled a set of clean, folded pajamas out of a basket full of clean clothes - that pissed H off even more and he then started screaming at me about how I never do anything, never put anything away, and how we live like pigs.  I took baby and daughter downstairs and after I got everyone calmed down and back to bed, H and I had one of the biggest fights ever.  I think that was the first night I told him that he had some serious mental issues - that no sane, normal person has that kind of reaction over their son breaking out in hives and not being able to find pajamas.  And, the fact that all of that had happened in under 8 minutes just showed to me how unpredictable he really was.  We didn't speak for at least a week after this.

Another time H was really mad at S13 (who was around 9 at the time) - I don't even remember what son did.  I do remember that H grabbed son by the arm and literally dragged him up to son's room.  As I'm hearing yelling and screaming upstairs I am heading up to put a stop to it and I start hearing a really loud banging/hitting noise which cause me to literally panic.  I got up there and H had taken my son's football helmet and had pounded it/stomped on it so hard that it was completely flat.  I lost it - again, probably one of the top 10 fights of our marriage.  I screamed at him until I was hoarse and he finally left the house for a couple of hours.  We didn't speak for days after this.  He actually took the boys out shopping the next night to find them a "new" football helmet but they couldn't find anything.  About a year ago, one of the boys was looking for a halloween costume and he suggested they wear that particular football helmet.  S13 said "we don't have that helmet anymore, remember?".  H replied, "really?  what happened to it?  I thought we still had that."  WOW... . when he said that I about died.  Did he really not remember?  Was he testing me to see if I would remind him of what happened?  Did he think we all wouldn't remember?  I already knew he had some serious issues, but when he made the comment indicating we still had the helmet I knew he was seriously troubled.

A year ago after Christmas we had a huge argument because S12 (it's always my middle son)... . was bothering his little brother and little brother was whining.  I knew as soon as S9 started whining that H was going to trigger (he was just in that "mood".  Before I could get upstairs to "quietly" try and separate the boys, H had ran up the stairs and did something to S12 causing him to end up at the bottom of 6 stairs, holding his head.  Again, I LOST it... . as H came barreling down the stairs I smacked him in the head and screamed "how do you like it when someone just hits you out of the blue?"  Surprise... . we had huge screaming match, he shoved me down to the floor, and threw a huge box down the stairs putting an 8-inch hole in the wall.  That is when I told him he would not ever lay a hand on my kids again, to which he replied "I will do whatever I dam*-well please!"  I said then you will be alone because I will take the kids and move out.  That was an awful, awful night.  He has never touched S12 (now S13) since. 

A few months ago I was running late getting back from a friend's house and we were supposed to be going to dinner as a family with our boys.  I was 15 minutes later than I said I would be, H was extremely angry, and when I saw that he was mad I apologized for being late and told him I understood why he was frustrated as well as told him he could have texted me at least to tell me he was ready to go.  The evening out was completely cancelled (by him) stating that there was NO way we could go because it was too late, even though I pointed out it was summer, and it was a Friday night so it really wasn't a big deal.  No, he was too mad at me to go at that point.  I knew if I stayed we would get into a huge fight so I told the boys to get in the car, which they did.  As I'm pulling out of the garage, H jumps behind my vehicle forcing me to stop.  He opens the door of my car and starts screaming at me that I'm not leaving and I'm not taking the boys to supper, they can eat at home.  I told him I wasn't leaving to get supper, I was leaving to get away from him so we could both calm down before things got out of hand.  He said something that made me angry so I followed him into the house because I didn't want the kids to hear what was being said.  When I got into the kitchen I saw that he had thrown everything off of the kitchen counter onto the floor or into the garbage, and that he had pulled half of the stuff out of the freezer and it was on the floor as well.  That triggered me, I told him that he was crazy and that I was sick of everything, blah blah blah.  Kids and I went to Subway in town and I was a crazy, shaking, mess.  Boys were very quiet and very concerned about me.  I couldn't form a straight thought in my head.  Then... . S13 said, Uh oh... . mom, there's dad's car.  He was driving around town looking for us.  He obviously saw my car and flew through the parking lot.  The boys were holding my hand and I was taking deep breaths trying to calm down.

These are just a few of the worst of the worst.  Everything started over something small and meaningless... . except each thing was a "challenge" of his authority, so to speak.  Our actions showed him that we didn't respect him or honor his feelings and that we were being purposefully defiant or mean.  Not the intent at all, but that's how he saw it.  That's where they all start... . innocent actions by one of us that he blows out of proportion and has a complete meltdown.  What we have learned is to not challenge his "authority" because it's less stressful not to.  There are many times that H uses unacceptable language, calls names, uses insults, says one of us is stupid, etc., that I just let it go.  I have some kind of internal barometer that tells me when he's gone "too far" and when he has, I trigger and it gets ugly.

So, most of the time I am constantly trying to orchestrate everything so that he doesn't trigger.  It's exhausting and nerve-wracking.  Just the other day I couldn't find a receipt that he needed to return an item and my heart was literally racing and my hands were shaking because I was afraid he was going to let loose on me.  My stomach was in a whirl of knots.  Luckily it turned out OK, but that feeling was awful, and unfortunately it is a feeling I find myself having almost once a day, if not at least every other day.  There is nothing worse than that feeling of anticipation... . knowing that the rage is going to come.  It's a horrible way to live... .

[shellsh0cked]

Yes... . ridiculous things that spawned these rages.  One was that I screwed up about what night I was gong to come over and spend with her.  Honest mistake... . even said, "well okay, I will just come on over tonight".  She flipped out... . I didn't CARE enough about her... . didn't want to be there... . wanted an "out" of the relationship... . This resulted in a string of mean hateful emails and texts... . while I was working... . even one to my work email detailing how much she hated me... . messed up... . wow.  The hate that spewed from her was intense... . Yet after making up (usually with sex), I was the most awesome man to ever walk the earth... .

[nevaeh]

The hate that spewed from her was intense... . Yet after making up (usually with sex), I was the most awesome man to ever walk the earth... .

Yes... . how true.  Sex makes everything better (for him).  Too bad I'm too afraid to say I don't want sex after he's given me the silent treatment for a week after a rage.  Worried that he will rage again if I say no.  Emotional hostage.

[Tincup]

Oh Shellshocked that same thing happened to me.  Except I could not take a day off work when she texted me the night before to ask.  I could take the following day off but not THAT day due to my boss being off.  I got terrible text messages about how I don't care enough about her, she will never ask me to do anything ever again.  The next text was breaking up with me because I need to find someone who will take a back seat, and she needs to find someone who will put her on a pedestal like she deserves... . this was one of many such.  But I was lucky to only get an in person rage once (she said she knew she had a bad temper and could somehow hold it together until i left as we did not live together.)  But many times I would get raging text messages within 2 minutes of leaving her house after a nice evening... .

[arn131arn]

In the beginning I was caring, supportive, and loving. Tried to comfort her and was genuinely trying to help her. Towards the end, the anger, resentment, the lack of respect, the deceit, the abuse  was too much. I fought back. It was literally a cycle of abuse those last 4 years. It wasn't all her fault, I have to own my drinking and the terrible things I said to her. I am lucky I have friends around me that hold me accountable, don't let me play the victim, bc with this mentality, I can grow mentally and spiritually. She, on the other hand, is surrounded by enablers, in denial, and cannot look inward. It's a shame... . today I feel empathy for her

[shellsh0cked]

Oh Shellshocked that same thing happened to me.  Except I could not take a day off work when she texted me the night before to ask.  I could take the following day off but not THAT day due to my boss being off.  I got terrible text messages about how I don't care enough about her, she will never ask me to do anything ever again.  The next text was breaking up with me because I need to find someone who will take a back seat, and she needs to find someone who will put her on a pedestal like she deserves... . this was one of many such.  But I was lucky to only get an in person rage once (she said she knew she had a bad temper and could somehow hold it together until i left as we did not live together.)  But many times I would get raging text messages within 2 minutes of leaving her house after a nice evening... .

That is the insecurity... . I got the "pedestal" thing too... . that I should not even acknowledge another woman... . lesbians and black girls (why?) were the only ones she never accused me of looking at.  Yeah, I also often got weird abandoment texts after leaving her house after we had a nice dinner, watched TV... . had sex... . THen what is this?  She's just a very sick girl.  I don't know what else to say about it... .

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Theoretically, it would be so informative & revealing to actually have a EEG recording of the BPD person (that is just about to go into the rage, & during the rage, then post-rage). The brain activity would be quite interesting to interpret. To obtain an EEG recording, of course, would require a wiling BPD person to allow themselves to be "wired up" with electrodes to the surface of the brain, ... . then purposefully elicit an argument.

  Any neurosurgeons, specialists of some sort that can comment on this? I would imagine that the EEG would be like an epileptic seizure of the temporal lobes with lots of spikes of electrical activity during a rage.

I read something somewhere recently. Can't remember all the details but that their blood pressure/heart rate actually drops during these times. The idea being that these rages were actually relieving their built up stress and regulating their emotions. Something to that effect. Not sure if it is true but very interesting. I can actually see the logic in it.

Yes, my ex raged out of control too and for very minor slights.

[Lucky Jim]

Friends, All so true.  Like something out of a Stephen King novel, but it wasn't fiction!  LJ

[Iwalk-Heruns]

In the beginning I was caring, supportive, and loving. Tried to comfort her and was genuinely trying to help her. Towards the end, the anger, resentment, the lack of respect, the deceit, the abuse  was too much. I fought back. It was literally a cycle of abuse those last 4 years. It wasn't all her fault, I have to own my drinking and the terrible things I said to her. I am lucky I have friends around me that hold me accountable, don't let me play the victim, bc with this mentality, I can grow mentally and spiritually. She, on the other hand, is surrounded by enablers, in denial, and cannot look inward. It's a shame... . today I feel empathy for her

Yes it's a shame about the enablers. Without them I really think they would have a chance to get help.

I truly believe my ex's family who are major enablers know what is going on but play dumb because they don't want to piss him off because he does so much for them (so that he looks good. A cover) they sacrifice him in order to get their needs met. It's the whole family system thing. They are all dysfunctional and if one gets better it throws off the balance of the whole family. Unfortunate and selfish.

[nevaeh]

Yes it's a shame about the enablers. Without them I really think they would have a chance to get help.

I truly believe my ex's family who are major enablers know what is going on but play dumb because they don't want to piss him off because he does so much for them (so that he looks good. A cover) they sacrifice him in order to get their needs met. It's the whole family system thing. They are all dysfunctional and if one gets better it throws off the balance of the whole family. Unfortunate and selfish.

That's the hard part... . I now know I was/am/have been my H's enabler.  I wish I had realized it at the beginning but it happened before I realized it.  You make an interesting point that if one dysfunctional one gets better it throws off the balance.  We are so engrained in our patterns that I don't think it's actually possible for us to change the balance/dynamic of our relationship.  Sad... . but true.  The only hope is for us to separate and work on our own issues as we see fit.  I really hope I can stop being an enabler (that I can figure that out with the help of a counselor) but that I can also learn to recognize and avoid people with a personality I am inclined to enable.  It seems to me that to some degree I am who I am and the best I can do is to learn to identify behaviors, speak up when I feel I am wronged, and be willing to move on or lose someone from my life that isn't compatible.  This issue is huge for me.  I don't like to let people go from my life.  It is very hard for me (obviously... . been with H for 23 years). 

[arn131arn]

In the beginning I was caring, supportive, and loving. Tried to comfort her and was genuinely trying to help her. Towards the end, the anger, resentment, the lack of respect, the deceit, the abuse  was too much. I fought back. It was literally a cycle of abuse those last 4 years. It wasn't all her fault, I have to own my drinking and the terrible things I said to her. I am lucky I have friends around me that hold me accountable, don't let me play the victim, bc with this mentality, I can grow mentally and spiritually. She, on the other hand, is surrounded by enablers, in denial, and cannot look inward. It's a shame... . today I feel empathy for her

Yes it's a shame about the enablers. Without them I really think they would have a chance to get help.

I truly believe my ex's family who are major enablers know what is going on but play dumb because they don't want to piss him off because he does so much for them (so that he looks good. A cover) they sacrifice him in order to get their needs met. It's the whole family system thing. They are all dysfunctional and if one gets better it throws off the balance of the whole family. Unfortunate and selfish.

My ex's family:

Father: eternal cheat.  Cheated on her mother, left her mother when she was 5, remarried 5 years ago, currently cheating on his new wife with her mother. Has lots of money and is the "king baby" that gets all the admiration and attention from the family he desserted while making all his money.  Heard the older daughter tell my ex one day that she was def going to a family function bc she didn't want to be cut out of the will.

Mother: still believes that her father is going to come back to her.  HAs not moved on or EVER seen or dated another man, believes the promises her dad tells her about buying her new cars and homes.  Extremely religious and prays to Jesus that her ex husband return one day. Calls current wife a hooker, and her brother's mom a midget.  Extremely angry woman, but puts on a facade as if she is not.

Sister: older sister.  From the outside looks normal. Has a family three kids and runs a successful business.  Enables ex, lets her stay at her home during splits, rent, bill, free. Underlying issue here, I haven't in 14 years figured it out, yet, something always seemed wrong.

Sister: Younger alcoholic and addicted to pain meds.  Lashes out on her dad when she is drunk for leaving them. cannot walk due to her extreme bout of arthritis.  Everyone makes her feel guilt for her pain and tells her it was long ago and to just get over it. Never once thinking this girl may be in much pain.

Brother: Younger brother out of wedlock.  Her father moved the other three girls into her brother's mother's house because their biological mom was so f'ed up.  Imagine being raised by a woman that was not your mother and your dad nowhere to be found.

Sound like a recipe for BPD?

[ogopogodude]

nevaeh, ... .  have you considered taking a "relationship vacation" /holiday from your husband? For example, go live with a girlfriend or parents or something? It is just a thought.

I got to the point of "no return". Maybe you may reach this point. I thought that I never would,...   as a vow of marriage was so very important to me. I grew up in a very, very Catholic family.  Anyways,... .  we had such a great marriage actually. For 14 wonderful years.  But when the booze got into the scene, ... .  it opened up the floodgates of bizarre behaviour. 

Her relatives blame me for her troubles. They would never admit that she actually has troubles (as this would be admitting they themselves have issues, ... .  as the area that I reside kinda know that my in-laws are temper-riddden). They blame me b/c I built a wine cellar in our house. Sounds odd, doesn't it? I'm the one to blame for my wife being the alcoholic b/c of a wine cellar.

[ogopogodude]

oops, i got off topic again.