Sick to my stomach, things got physical, this wasn't my plan

[PacifistMom]

Well this time I think it is happening. Well , he went from it's over to who knows maybe one day to I think we need to take a break.

He has been sending long texts through the morning about how I have killed his person, my lack of communication, how I made him not trust me, how I started it in getting physical, then next message why aren't you responding, ignoring me will only make it worse, please let's not hate each other.

The third text he sent was "It's ok, don't worry ... . Sorry, no need to reply."

(I am at work)

I finally answered "I know you must be hurting because I am hurting deeply. I love you and this is tearing me up. I don't want to start crying and breaking down at work, I am trying to focus on the tasks in front of me."

He said he will pass by home later to get some of his things and give me my space.

I posted yesterday about how he got mad after seeing a text message from my relative about the rent.

After that post, when he came home last night I went up and took my cel phone from the room where he was changing, not needing any more headaches if any of my family sent a text message that could be a trigger. But the taking of the phone was the trigger.

He forced me to give him his phone and I told him no but he insisted and was giving me that glaring eye look that wrenches my stomach. "If you have nothing to hide ... . " Well of course I don't - in terms of his cheating allegations - but I really don't need him to go through my conversations looking for reasons to criticize me or friends or family.

It was the breaking point I got angry and told him that was enough, to give me my phone. He had already looked at it for like 10 minutes plenty of time to see that there are no affairs happening or anything like that. I tried to grab my phone away he threatened I receded.

He found a conversation where I had been sending job links to his friend - regardless of the fact that I WAS SITTING WITH HIM WHILE HE ASKED ME TO LOOK FOR JOBS for his friend ... . to illustrate his point that I conversate more and care more about everyone but him.

He looked a bit more and I just boiled over. I told him give me my phone, I am tired of being treated like a child, that he is not respecting my privacy, that I am tired of him complaining about my family ("What are they talking sh** about me? No? Then what are you worried about? Tell me the truth what are you hiding?" It was ugly. I was not letting go of my phone. I'd had it with the disrespect, intimidation. He wrestled it away from me, grabbing my arm, putting him forehead up to mine and staring me down, throwing me down on the sofa, all while my daughter was there (she is going on 4). And today messaging me to tell me that it's obvious something is different about me, that I was more worried about my phone than my own daughter when she was going under the table (because I"m the only one of course who should have reacted to her, not his job? I was definitely seeing too much red to see this but he saw it and insisted on keeping on?)

He sent me 2 long messages today about all my faults basically and how I've broken him down and that for our daughter's sake we should take a break and asking me how I want to go about it and asking me to remove his tenant (my relative, you may have read earlier posts)

I am just feeling soo lost, so heartbroken, so sad. I want so badly to hold him and be with him and the logic in my head is fighting the love in my heart. I have always believed I would draw the line at physical but he has broken many a dish (or wall, DVD player, 47" TV etc) and it's not the first time he has grabbed me hard on the arm either to prevent me from shutting a door on him (literal), in this case to prevent me from taking my phone.

He pushed me down (to sitting on the soft sofa he may rationalize?). He shoved his head against mine to intimidate me. He grabbed my arms multiple times. Scariest is that he wanted to do worse I could feel him holding back and a few times he gestured, came at me.

I am losing track of the order of events but in the last few days he has also said he never wanted to end up with another bhit, that I am just like his ex (he finally left her after she told him it was like taking care of three kids - him being one), that I am just like all the girls in the club who grind up against anyone, that I have killed his person, that I have drained him financially and emotionally, and so on and so forth.

That while I could talk with his friend about football or whatever easily that we don't have that small talk, we don't have that comfort. Well the reason for that is that he is ALWAYS angry and when I try to have small talk he just ignores me and later makes some comment about how I am giving him the silent treatment (which to him means I am making small talk or just practical direct conversation as needed).

Also, That he can never be good enough for me, that no matter what he does I will never ever be satisfied, that no matter how hard he works I just want more and more. When of course anyone who knows me can clearly see that I've been bending over backwards and "walking on eggshells" for ten years plus.

(On another topic, since so much of this seems like projection - especially that I don't communicate and that I give him the silent treatment when he is raging and won't talk with me if I try to make simple conversation - and with all the accusations lately of cheating - my mom believes that he is the one who is cheating or has intentions to do so - which makes sense to me since they will never leave unless they have a replacement right?)

I can't let my daughter see things get physical, I can't let her see him calling me names and making nasty accusations. She is getting too old, she is 3 going on 8 and processes things real quick.

I didn't want this. I've been on the STAYING board and trying to learn the tools trying to figure out how to walk ahead together and it only seems to get worse.

Shattered. Please help. Tho I don't even know what I'm asking. How do I let him know I will support any effort he wants to make to rebuild but that it is his decision, not mine, to leave; and that I can not subject my daughter to seeing mom in that scared, helpless victim role. How do I support him while keeping myself safe? Would you still be on this board if this happened to you? Am I stupid for still wanting to believe something can change? That ... . love can prevail (with some serious work)? Can domestic violence be turned back or is physical violence/intimidation hopeless? I know some might say I should be on the Undecided board but I can't imagine not loving him, and not trying ... . I feel so cheated that it has come to this without even any effort to make it better i.e. counselling. He just says "I don't need you to save me!"

He is going to stay with a friend so I have some space to breathe at least but I don't know what to do next.

I am going to see a T for the first time on Friday. She has credentials for DBT, mindfulness, CBT, couples in conflict, addictions counselling, etc (all relevant to me) but I guess I want to know if anyone here has overcome these kind of situations and what I am supposed to do until Friday to keep myself together.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

He needs to not be there. This is escalating. First, you have a child who is crawling under a table to hide. Second, he is blaming you for that, so he is ignoring who is causing the scaring.

Third. YOU. No one deserves to be physically assaulted and intimidated. I would inform the man in the presence of several other parties that this stops, he immediatly gets therapy/anger management, AND he is out of the house until he sorts his crap. And finally he needs to know that you WILL call the police and that you WILL file a restraining order. Then he is in deep poop.

Help yourself. He crossed the line.

[Chosen]

Hi PacifistMom,



I'm so sorry you are going through this.  I hope you've read the links about safety on here: https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info4.htm

What I'm about to tell you is just my personal experience, so I'm not saying you should do what I say, but here goes:

Things have gotten physical in my household twice before, and things didn't start changing until I set boundaries.  If he thinks that you can be threatened and you'd just sit there and take it, then he will continue doing it.  But if you set boundaries to protect yourself (mine was: when he threatens me physically, e.g. once he said "if you xxx then I will hit you", although he didn't, I will get out of there), and you stick to it, then he may start to realise you're taking it seriously.  There's no use telling him to go get therapy or anger management if he doesn't think it's a problem.  The solution has to start with you removing yourself from this danger.

Another boundary I also set was that when he starts calling me names and verbally abusing me, I will shut up and not talk to him anymore.  I will just say calmly "I will not respond if you talk to me using those words."  This is to prevent things from escalating.  He won't like it, but at least things won't keep getting worse because you've given yourself a breather. 

Hope this helps a bit.  Please do take care and remember to read the Safety First lessons.

[PacifistMom]

What do I do if he's not at his friend's? What if he's home? What if he has calmed down and wants to talk? If he wants to sort out things now? He is still blaming me for provoking him, believes that. Doesn't believe he is abusive. That I have ruined it all. I just don't know if I have the strength to deal with any of this right now

[Chosen]

What do I do if he's not at his friend's? What if he's home? What if he has calmed down and wants to talk? If he wants to sort out things now?

Boundaries= "if he gets physical, you will xxx"

He wants to be in control, that's why he wants to talk now.  He may claim he wants to sort things out, but since he doesn't believe he's wrong, what makes you think he will actually talk instead of accuse you?

What I may do is say that "I need some time before I can talk to you.  We will talk hit_" (give him a time).  And stick to it.  Don't let him provoke you into explaining why you don't want to talk.  He may do a lot of things to try to engage you, but just stick to your word.  And make sure you're safe- if you aren't, then don't go home.

[Livin4me]

What do I do if he's not at his friend's? What if he's home? What if he has calmed down and wants to talk? If he wants to sort out things now? He is still blaming me for provoking him, believes that. Doesn't believe he is abusive. That I have ruined it all. I just don't know if I have the strength to deal with any of this right now

No, they don't believe they are abusive!  They are always the victim (because as long as they are victim, they aren't at fault).  If you are afraid for you or your child, which is apparent, make that priority.  Leave and deal with all the "talk" later!

[waverider]

What happens when he believes that you made him hit you, because you were deliberately antagonizing him?

Not saying that is the truth, but it will be his truth

[Sstepdad]

Borderlines keep the pressure up making you react to the moment, you need to step back and think about the future not the next day or month, is it is a financial entanglement holding you together? My step daughter is a master at doing that.

Is this a person that will be a good father to your child? most men if they get violent it will only escalate, he does not respect your personal privacy and now your physical boundaries are being tested.

Someone interested in a real relationship will not use intimidation and force.

[elemental]

He may think this angle to bullying you will work. So far it is. When he pushes really hard at you, he appears, from what you say, to recognize that he IS doing it, so he is holding back from actually beating the heck out of you. He is *barely* in control. So he goes and hides elsewhere to calm down and attempt to reassure you that he won't go further. Probably some combination of "leaving" you to punish you on the surface, and underneath guilt and anger for being abusive.

All theoretical. The real point is your safety and the safety of your child. All of your what ifs are something you are thinking about because they are a symptom in your mind of how you are being targeted and how out of control and scary this is getting. So what is HE wants to talk and "sort it out". Do YOU want to talk to him right now? And why would you? Because... . you are scared... can't take a big step back into detachment?

I know it is scary and hard, and that detachment is so diffucult to take an attempt at. Maybe like me you are afraid to lose your loved one or a life or what if he really doesn't care... . these are fears that have to be faced anyway.

Sstepdad is right, your boundry needs to be made and enforced if it is crossed.

Can you think of a boundry that follows from your right to be safe that you can enforce? Right now your BPD is the one running off, doing all of the leaving.  He thinks he is controlling everything. Is he or can you show him you control you and it is up to him to control HIM?

[PacifistMom]

Thank you for all the replies. Like I said it's not the first time. When my daughter was a baby and he was raging I tried to shut myself in the bathroom with her and he held my arms until his sister (enabler) could take my daughter (he did not want to give me the power to take my daughter with me into the room).

Even in the first year of our relationship he was throwing things.

I suppose I have been so used to taking blame for everything and how frustrating life is for him that I felt he would never hurt us. I have been reading and rereading and underlining all the criteria/definitions of physical/emotional abuse and there sure are a lot. I grew up with strong feminist women and of course would have never imagined I could live in such denial.

Last night I stayed at my mom's. As I expected, he did not go to his friend's and by 10 was asking where I was, and don't I think he at least deserves 15 mins of my time and so on. He texted me for my relative's phone number to sort out the condo but of course he didn't call him. He called me instead to rage.

I spoke to him on the phone where he listed off grievances again and then insisting I give him a date for me to get him his condo back. I told him, this is not going anywhere, I was not expecting this and I need some time to think about what I'm going to do. Trying to make me decide and plan on the spot.

I told him over and over, I need some time and will talk to you Friday. I eventually just hung up he was in full rage. I texted him, "Just stop. I will call you Friday. I don't know how long it will take to arrange."

He sent a last text right before my phone died [no charger at mom's so I had no choice not to respond], ":)on't bother calling on Friday. Just let me know when I can get my place. You were my last belief. Let my daughter know I love her. You're right I called this on myself - I trust too much. Wish you well. Hope this was all for your growth and I was able to better you."

I really don't get what he wants from me. HE said he wanted a break and when I didn't come home he flips out. I have made it clear several times that I wanted to pursue therapy, get help communicating etc., but he refuses to take any responsibility for any issues or any of his actions.

My daughter cried last night saying she wanted to go home, she misses Daddy. I am so afraid, I don't think he will touch me but I am just afraid of the pain his rage causes me and so so hurt from being called names and told how I ruined him. And of course something dramatic always happens to be when I have some huge event or sale at work that I need to be on my A game.

Really looking forward to meeting the therapist tomorrow. Do any of you bring notes to help you make sure you say what you want to say? Or leave it to T?

[PacifistMom]

And Sstepdad to answer, it has been love on my end - yes we have tons of financial entanglements but I have a strong support system and can always stay with my mom without worry. On his end, he doesn't want to abandon another daughter (he has left his kids before), he wants to get back "his" money that I have drained from him, our house is in mid-reno and we need to finish it, and I suppose he is afraid to be alone - so that's why I'm wondering now if he has a possible replacement on the sideline as he's never so adamantly been ready to leave. Or if he is wanting me to beg him or make some dramatic show of love ... . I just don't know.

[PacifistMom]

And I am freaking out a little, what if he comes to my business at his lunch? He works only a few minutes away.

[Love Is Not Enough]

And I am freaking out a little, what if he comes to my business at his lunch? He works only a few minutes away.

That is scary and is a good possibility. I don't know if you are able to leave, but that might be a good idea. If not, then just try to calmly tell him to leave and that this is not the time or place. Do whatever you need to do to remove yourself from his presence and call the police if necessary. Your safety is paramount.

As stated before. BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES! You finally got fed up with being terrorized and set one for your privacy. That is great, but it caused a serious incident in front of your daughter which is definitely what you do not want. IT IS GREAT THAT YOU STOOD UP FOR YOURSELF AND SHOWS THAT YOU ARE GETTING STRONGER!

You need space and time to think about what you need to do. Please consider a separation and take some time to process all of this. You owe it to yourself to do what is best for you. You especially owe it to your daughter who depends on you for her well being. Talking to your T will help alot. I take a notepad with me to take notes on. I don't think you need to prepare anything beforehand right now. They will direct you at first.

Please take care of yourself and keep in contact here. We are here for you! 

[PacifistMom]

As stated before. BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES BOUNDARIES! You finally got fed up with being terrorized and set one for your privacy. That is great, but it caused a serious incident in front of your daughter which is definitely what you do not want. IT IS GREAT THAT YOU STOOD UP FOR YOURSELF AND SHOWS THAT YOU ARE GETTING STRONGER!

You need space and time to think about what you need to do. Please consider a separation and take some time to process all of this. You owe it to yourself to do what is best for you. You especially owe it to your daughter who depends on you for her well being.

Thank you so much. It nearly brings me to tears to feel some validation for myself after 10+ years of the opposite.

[PacifistMom]

I mean, validation other than from my wonderful mom who told me at least 6 or 7 years ago that - exact words - I walk on eggshells around him and that that I seem to be losing myself spending 100% of my time always trying to make sure he is ok, that his needs are met etc. She said I was not all that receptive then but she is glad I am opening my eyes. Especially since she went through the same thing in the past with my ex-stepdad (can we say CYCLE)? Had to mention, I am not without support here, but this board is where my whole truth and not a word left back can feel safe. Thank you.

[PacifistMom]

No word today and I have stuck to my word that I will contact him Friday. I am just so sad about the pain he must be in but I know he has to understand that thins can't get to that point ... . I think he expected me to be home last night to beg to reconcile ... Feeling so lost and like I'm ruining my chance for us to make up and move on (yet knowing that would lead to more of the same) ... .

Has anyone here successfully left and returned to better conditions?

[Love Is Not Enough]

No word today and I have stuck to my word that I will contact him Friday. I am just so sad about the pain he must be in but I know he has to understand that thins can't get to that point ... . I think he expected me to be home last night to beg to reconcile ... Feeling so lost and like I'm ruining my chance for us to make up and move on (yet knowing that would lead to more of the same) ... .

Has anyone here successfully left and returned to better conditions?

It's great you are sticking to your schedule. Do your best not worry about what he is going through. That is our biggest issue and this causes us to make decisions that do not help us or them. Try to focus on how you feel and what is best for you and your daughter. Let him own his pain and deal with it himself. This is one of the hardest things for us to accept, but we have to if they are to ever have the chance to improve. He probably did expect you to come home and beg, but that would give him back the control and that is the last thing you want. At this point you have to look at this very strategically and be very diplomatic. Do your best to remove your emotions from the decision making process. You are not ruining your chance to make up and you are correct about there being more of the same if you keep doing the same things you have in the past. You know now that they don't work.

I also had a similar situation where my gf physically attacked me for the first time after I said something triggering that was really unnecessary. She also grabbed my phone to "see all of my lies" and we fell to the floor. She had the bruises from me trying to get her off of me and I never hit her. I wasn't even angry, I was terrified. Then she threatened to have me arrested and almost smashed my car windshield in. It was a horrifying experience and I am very thankful the children did not wake up and witness this. Somehow I escaped and made it home. I decided after this incident that things had to change.

I set BOUNDARIES and I made sure that I will stick to them. I told my gf that if she ever physically attacked me again (even if I SAY something I shouldn't) that I would leave and not continue the relationship. This also included calling the police on me, unless I was actually doing something legitimately wrong. Then I made it a requirement that she start DBT therapy. The most important part of this is that they understand what you require and that you WILL stick to your word about what will happen if they do not meet the requirements of your boundary. YOU HAVE TO BE MENTALLY PREPARED TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP IF THE REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT MET. If you slide then they will take the power back and you will be subjected once again to their abuse. You are getting stronger and you have to stick to your guns.

Now the difference I see with your situation is that it sounds like your bf is verbally abusive most of the time. You should really consider a separation for a time until he proves that he will treat you better. You owe this to yourself and your daughter who is growing more aware of the situation everyday. I returned after a few days to my gf, but this fight was an exception and not our norm. She was not being verbally abusive often before the fight and she has been dysregulating very little since the fight. DBT is also helping her since she started going. I think she had become self aware and had reached a point where she wanted to get better. I can tell she is working very hard to treat us better. My situation was also different because the girls were with HER and felt I needed to be there to alleviate her stress and protect them from her dysregulations, which were sure to happen without parental assistance. Things have improved greatly in a few months and I think they will continue to do so as long as I continue working the LESSONS and she sticks with DBT.

Please think very carefully about what you want to do. You have to look at this like a war and strategically plan. It sounds harsh, but it is necessary. You have to take emotion out of this and not worry about how he is feeling. Set boundaries and make choices that are best for you and your daughter. You have to find the strength within you. I promise it is there. I had enough and I found mine. It is hard at first, but you will see improvement. Either he will work hard to get better or you will do what is necessary to make YOUR life better. It's that simple. I know. It's so much harder than it sounds. You have to mentally prepare yourself and know that you will be ok no matter what happens as long as you stick to your boundary. If you have to end the relationship, then you will know you did everything YOU could to fix it. HE has to do the work on HIS end. YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS WORK ALONE, HE HAS TO DO HIS PART. Luckily my gf was ready to do her part. If that changes, I am prepared to leave knowing that I did everything I could to save it.

[PacifistMom]

Thanks Love is Not Enough.

I saw the therapist today and she did reinforce much of what you wonderful folks have shared.

She agrees that it sounds like BPD as well as narcissism.

Let me know that it is a very challenging disorder to work with.

That he might never get better, especially if he will not pursue professional assistance.

That I am carrying a lot.

That my daughter is clearly my priority, and that it took a lot of courage to a) leave b) walk into her office.

She suggested that a separation is the best thing, that I need to stabilize, and see how I feel. And to remember that I have a choice here too (because I said HE said it's not permanent, HE said we need a break, etc.) and I need the time to breathe. To take care of myself.

She is trained in DBT and told me to put it out there about counselling just to see what he says. She also has a great adult psychiatrist to refer him to (he takes medication for ADHD and I do believe it has contributed to this most recent spiral hitting harder. She also mentioned Risperidone/Risperidol, that it has been helpful with the anger/impulsivity as well as calm/sleep for some with BPD and that this would def be worth a try if he is willing to work with a Psychiatrist or even talk to his GP about trying it for anger management.).

I told her about my schedule and that I said I would let him know about his condo by Friday.

I have not talked to my relative about vacating the condo. My therapist reinforced what people on this board said - to leave that to him. My relative, but his condo. Let him take the responsibility.

I want to propose to him that he stay at our house and I remain at my mom's while we take a breather. Also to suggest counselling without aggravating him as he doesn't believe he has any disorder.

I asked my therapist if it is cowardly to communicate by email or text rather than phone (at the moment I am terrified of him, my stomach turns at him talking to me like he has been), and she said it's perfectly fine, whatever I need to do that is right for me.

Any ideas on how to communicate this to him in a way that is diffusing rather than triggering? While maintaining my boundaries? I think my boundary is, that he needs to agree to work with me on communicating by getting help from counselling ... . which he may just say, F*** that, it's over (which I know I have to be prepared for, but would still like suggestions on how I might be able to ensure I do my best to avoid feeding this reaction while speaking my real truth).

[elemental]

If you can't be safe with him, it's over anyway. You have a child to keep safe and stable and you have your own very valuable self to take care of, too.

I am really glad you saw a therapist and she was able to validate your instincts.

Your body is telling you what the right thing to do is. You feel afraid and are panicking at the thought of face to face or talking to him. You need the time and space for YOU. And if he wants to sit in an angry little puddle and threaten to leave you over it... . then it's over anyway because you can't have a safe relationship with that in the mix.

I personally wouldn't go back until he has been deep in therapy for months. Also, until now his antics and bullying have worked to manipulate you into caving to him. He is used to it. Be strong. He will find that his wife and daughter are very valuable people who don't have to put up with him creating ugly messes to live in. Once he gets a grip on himself he will hopefully want to step up to the plate for himself and his family. Or he will be very very alone... because like I said, if he doesn't and if you don't enforce your boundry, you will have nothing anyway that will be safe and good as long as he is in your life.

[Surrender]

He needs to not be there. This is escalating. First, you have a child who is crawling under a table to hide. Second, he is blaming you for that, so he is ignoring who is causing the scaring.

Third. YOU. No one deserves to be physically assaulted and intimidated. I would inform the man in the presence of several other parties that this stops, he immediatly gets therapy/anger management, AND he is out of the house until he sorts his crap. And finally he needs to know that you WILL call the police and that you WILL file a restraining order. Then he is in deep poop.

Help yourself. He crossed the line.

I agree with Zencat... you can't let this go on. If he thinks that this is acceptable than it's only going to get worse. Something severe needs to happen for him to get the message that THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

There is no easy answer when you love someone and don't want to admit the very thing that is staring you in the face. He needs to stay away until he figures out what he wants to do to make things better or nothing.

Can't go backwards. Don't go backwards. He needs to prove with time and actual change that he is doing everything he can on his part. No justifications or excuses because this can't continue, not with a little one.

[PacifistMom]

I spoke to him last night.

He admitted he has an anger management problem and that he is sorry and that he was out of line. He said he will

- Quit drinking (the blowouts happen when he's been drinking)

- Go to couples counselling (with my new T - a DBT specialist)

- See a psychiatrist for his meds not just a GP

- Try to talk about the small things he bottles up so they don't come to an explosion

- Not rescind on these commitments (this may be the most challenging)

I told him I will

- Support him to get better - but I can't do it for him

- Not accept any violence or verbal abuse

- Leave if he is drinking or being verbally abusive or if I feel there is any chance - even a little - he is going to go into a rage

It is liberating to have left and to have a firm boundary in place that I know I can follow through on. It is the first time in 11 years I have ever done it and if the rage starts again I will simply leave. In the past I have said I cannot and will not accept name-calling, aggression etc but I never actually gave him a specific consequence.

My T's first availability is in 2 weeks. I am hoping there will be a cancellation for next week. She said his moments of clarity are an encouraging sign, if he makes the decision, that he can help himself with DBT/mindfulness. She has an adult psychiatrist to refer him to who happens to work in Addictions. If we can remove the drinking from the equation then I believe with counselling and an appropriate med regime he may be able to learn some regulating skills.

Hoping for some encouragement to stay strong and tips on encouraging the "to-do list" (without doing it for him).