Not so sure if BPD. So confused still

[Rebuilding me]

I'm still confused about this whole BPD. It has explained a lot about my failed r/s in some ways. Definite walking on eggshells! Confusion over her being so thin skinned when in the beginning we could talk about anything. My withdrawal because I felt I could do nothing right to please her to get back to the beginning of the r/s. Me always trying to avoid talking about anything with substance in the relationship because there was just avoidance or projection from her. I think because of my own rescuing tendencies and co-dependency issues all my r/s seem unhealthy. My ex definitely has many of the 9 traits, but it is hard to know for sure because she stopped sharing with me what was on her mind, and I quit asking because it seemed pointless. All so different than the beginning. I wasn't sure if our r/s was normal or not because of my lack of exp., and the previous unhealthy r/s.

She would cry a lot when we first moved in together and I never really understood why. Maybe I lost my cool a little occasionally, but I would try to apologize and she wouldn't want to talk and said she needed to process first. Understandable. In many ways it felt manipulative, but I never knew if it was something I did. As it continued and she would "process" cry in the bathroom I became more frustrated and withdrawn, thus she just stopped crying in front of me and she seemed to emotionally withdraw more, thus I did the same. She quit speaking of important events in life, like dropping out of law school, until I finally asked and she told me she didn't tell me because she didn't want me to feel it was my fault. (Long story) she had traumatic events in her childhood that make sense to the disorder. She had migraines and when I would ask if there was anything I could do she would say put me out of my misery. Comments like " only my nephew will always love me" he is four. " only my dad is always supportive of me" man these comments stung!

She never really raged which makes me scratch my head as I read so many crazy extremes on here. If BPD she was a waif. I left my home, quit my job and moved out of state to be with her and things were never the same as in the beginning once did! The kicker to make me search and find BPD as a reason, was once broke up I wrote a well thought out letter, I believe many woman would love to hear from their exSO, and she never responded. No closure what so ever. I have been on her phone plan and have wrote to her to get off and even had our provider contact her to get me off nothing for over a month. We have been broken up three months. Yesterday I texted her I am not obligated to pay, and would like to get off the plan, to cut all ties with her because she could not respond to me whatsoever. Today a new billing cycle started so I wanted to give her a heads up I would not be paying and get me off before new cycle started for her benefit. She texted back instantly. "I will do it tomorrow sorry for the delay." 2 months n/c than an instant reply! I texted back she must do it now to avoid a new billing cycle, no response! Just now I checked to see if I was released from her plan. What do you know still not done yet!


I'm trying to heal and make my own closure since she won't give it to me, but I am so confused as to what was me vs her. I have issues of fleas I think for sure, but because I feel like she internalized most stuff instead of raging or it was passive aggressive or indirect, does that make her BPD or is that similar! She would make comments like I'm a bad g/f. A few times she said I hate her or I was going to break up with her. Which I always felt was a guilt trip and hated when she did that. I do believe she felt she wasn't  good enough for me, but never did I verbalize that.  Did she not rage because I kept my cool most the time and withdrew? I don't know? There are so many blurry aspects of our relationship that I'm trying to understand. It is hard to know what was real. Is this the FOG?

[arn131arn]

I am certain they do this to keep the last bit of control they have with u. To NOT let finality of the play reach it's conclusion. I understand where u r with ur phone, mine is with my 8 year old son. She is in another RS and will not sign papers for me to have custody because that would be the finality the end of us. She's not done hurting me yet... .

[CoasterRider]

Hey man sorry to hear you're going through this. I don't know much about all this BPD stuff like you. However it does seem to explain a lot as you have identified. What I can validate for you from an unbiased perspective. Is it seems like she is dealing with some issues, from her comments about herself it seems she has some self esteem self issue problems? I know where you are coming from not knowing if it's you or her. One thing I learned from my time on here and my time in therapy is that it's usually a little of both. It takes two to tango even if it's a toxic dance. Something about us out personalities and our FOG in relationships draw us to unstable people. You identified and like myself to have some " rescuer" traits. That may be the root of your contribution to things and why you acted/reacted the way you did. You avoided a lot of things to "keep the peace" but at what cost to your boundaries and what you needed from her and that relationship?

We are trying to cope with these breakups by making understanding of it but if BPD is the answer you are looking for, from what I've been told on here BPD isn't much of a straight answer other than, you won't understand what's going on in their mind because it's disordered thinking and dysregulated emotions. That simply don't fit into out logic. The best "answer" BPD seems to provide is that she didn't "see" the relationship the way we/you did. Which for me doesn't provide much in consolation or comfort.

I think we try to seek a "diagnosis" and fail to just accept the facts , it was a dysfunction relationship for whatever reason. It seemed to emotionally drain you, there was no " fix" you were going to be able to provide. It's probably time to move on , look inward to what you contributed and can control and become an emotionally healthy person to not find yourself on a similar r/s in the future.

Any of this help? Hope so, best of luck and keep sharing. There are some all star supporters on here hopefully they will weigh in on this thread and clean up for me!

[Iwalk-Heruns]

From what I understand there can be an internal, silent rage going on. (mine did outwardly rage however) When I questioned to my therapist what was going on with him and I thought it was BPD she would say well probably cluster b ( I think she seemed to gravitate more to npd). Anyway she would say no matter what it is it is not healthy. For some reason it was really important for me to have an answer to what exactly it was. A diagnosis.  I think so I would understand that there was nothing I could do or could have done to prevent this. I still will never know absolutely for sure what he has but what I do know is there was nothing I could have done differently. His behaviors were just not normal. Sure I am not perfect but I bent over backwards for him. It's very hard to come to grips with that reality when you love someone.

[Rebuilding me]

I agree at the end of the day it does not matter if it is BPD. I did my best, there were mistakes, but I was willing to fight for the relationship, whereas I felt she sucked me dry than I was dead to her! Although the split was relatively friendly. Hugs and her saying she still loved me! She went n/c after the r/s when I wrote the letter discussing what I felt happened and how I felt she was running from the pain in her, but as a loving couple we can face our weaknesses together to heal. Thinking it is BPD helps in some ways it explains a lot and even passed relationships that went from all to nothing almost instantly! I guess I want to understand if it is BPD to understand my own unhealthy attachments and how to find closure with myself so I never fall into the hook again. When I say I love you it is never words, and I don't say I want to spend the rest of my life with you lightly! When I hear the same thing I believe it! I make a conscious commitment to that person I give my heart to! Three times in 33 years my heart has been torn apart. Each time I think I'm more careful, but it always ends in shock and heartbreak! How can one ever trust what being said is real? I have a great capacity to love, but honestly do not think I could survive this type of heart break again, which I know will impact any future relationship because in the back of my mind I will have created my own abandonment issues!

[santa]

To avoid this in the future, what I would really stress to you is to watch for early warning signs. I knew something was up with my ex about a month into the relationship. There was an scary incident where she was obviously stalking me and I basically looked the other way and pretended everything was fine, partly because I wasn't quite over my previous relationship yet. I know hindsight is 20/20, but there were some things that I really should have paid more attention to at the time.

As much as I say I never saw this coming and others say they never saw it coming, there were signs. We just either missed them or looked the other way because we wanted the relationship to be good. We made excuses for their behavior... . and this is where it got us. You've just got to look at your next relationship objectively. Don't turn a blind eye to obvious red flags just because you want the relationship to work. Better to end it early than to hang on until it blows up in your face later.

[CoasterRider]

I agree at the end of the day it does not matter if it is BPD. I did my best, there were mistakes, but I was willing to fight for the relationship, whereas I felt she sucked me dry than I was dead to her! Although the split was relatively friendly. Hugs and her saying she still loved me! She went n/c after the r/s when I wrote the letter discussing what I felt happened and how I felt she was running from the pain in her, but as a loving couple we can face our weaknesses together to heal. Thinking it is BPD helps in some ways it explains a lot and even passed relationships that went from all to nothing almost instantly! I guess I want to understand if it is BPD to understand my own unhealthy attachments and how to find closure with myself so I never fall into the hook again. When I say I love you it is never words, and I don't say I want to spend the rest of my life with you lightly! When I hear the same thing I believe it! I make a conscious commitment to that person I give my heart to! Three times in 33 years my heart has been torn apart. Each time I think I'm more careful, but it always ends in shock and heartbreak! How can one ever trust what being said is real? I have a great capacity to love, but honestly do not think I could survive this type of heart break again, which I know will impact any future relationship because in the back of my mind I will have created my own abandonment issues!

Dude you sound just like me, so let me share some things that I have heard on here that helped myself?

You can never tell them anything that's why your letter and attempt to help her see what she was doing fell on deaf ears. The disorder itself seems to be a gigantic defense mechanism because they don't want to face the reality of what their core wound of abandonment is exactly. They are so entrenched in the denial, only when they let their defenses down and are willing to show humility about how they act will they see the light. It has to come from within themselves tho. Nothing we can do or say.

You and me are the same that when we say we love it's unconditional and we'll fight for that love. As we don't bestow it easily it's something sacred and special like no other thing. But unlike them we have a firm understanding of who we are as individuals so there is continuity to how that plays out into real life. Borderlines have no clue who they are and there is no consistency to their thoughts and emotions. It's completely true that she felt the exact same as you in the moment she felt it and said it. However as her perceptions, thoughts and feelings changes based on triggers everything change with it. Their reality exist in their head and can flip flop depending on the day or even moment. There is no consistency but it doesn't mean they didn't mean it when they said it. They just don't seem to know how to keep meaning it. Makes sense?

Like you I think how can we ever trust anyone's word ever again! I think if we are honest with ourself we know that there were a lot of red flags about our ex's and we wanted to believe their words so badly because we wanted to feel special, loved, an adored. That's why we attract these people and put up with their ish. Seems sorta selfish on out part right? It sorta makes us really responsible for our own situations as well. We aren't victims we were volunteers.

The only way to prevent all this from becoming our baggage is to with it here and now. Don't take the easy way out like they do. Feel all the pain, cry, get angry, feel bad for yourself, feel bad for her, go through the whole sordid awful painful liberating process. Then take a breathe of fresh air and enjoy freedom from her and your own limiting issues.

[Rebuilding me]

I saw red flags and ignored them this is true. The infatuation and mirroring was powerful! Because I am a man who has always believed in facing my flaws and past to heal I guess she mirrored that character in me. She once wrote me that not only are her

Walls down but they are completely down! She said I had changed her life in such a short time she is excited for what that means for our future! She said she can't imagine not sharing every thought, pain, joy etc... . With me and that I was helping her understand the importance of being open to others! She said I was helping her be the person she was always meant to be! It's amazing how she could say the perfect things for me to hear as a rescuer, almost scary! Than over time turn around and completely do the opposite. It's like she read my mind, which I did feel we did with each other quite a bit! I turned the other way on the red flags because she had me believe I was the one to help her become her true self! Lol that sounds perfect to someone like me, but I can see how wrong that seems now! It does mess with the mind though! I guess I just have to keep checking to see if she releases me from the plan. I just want complete detachment so I can fully begin to heal, but don't know what to do now! My polite patience is running out!

[Rebuilding me]

Coast I have definitely embraced it all. I feel that to be healthy and healing. It's just the questions of how not caring this crap with me in future r/s. Makes me feel crazy at times.  I have always been a dreamer and an idealist, so when something like this happens it is core shattering! Is how I think all wrong? Am I naive? Too trusting? A dreamer? Lol if I am too much of a dreamy idealist it's a hard pill to swallow when life shows us otherwise. If I don't have my idealism I don't know who I am. I would change my core. Really messes with my identity. I know I will be ok and keep dreaming, but each time I definitely become more guarded who I share my dreams with. I would rather shoot for the moon and miss and land in the mud, than aim for the mud and hit it! What dies not kill us makes us stronger!

[CoasterRider]

Her comment she needed you to help her be her true self sounds like the a-typical borderline to me. And I feel your pain about all the great things they said. My ex used to always get me sweet cards full of the same sentiments but during periods or devaluing I would present him with his own written words and asked him how could I be both of these people at the exact same time. The wonderful amazing boyfriend who is also a cheating scoundrel scumbag. Made no sense to me but I understand how now. Their perception of the reality changed, with borderlines their perceptions are always absolute.

All those head games are tough to get over. You're right with our personalities being rescuer it plays right into what makes us feel better about out self esteem issues.

Just keep remembering she was two people! And so were you in her mind. Best of luck with detaching!

[Rebuilding me]

* What does not kill us makes us stronger! Lol

[CoasterRider]

Coast I have definitely embraced it all. I feel that to be healthy and healing. It's just the questions of how not caring this crap with me in future r/s. Makes me feel crazy at times.  I have always been a dreamer and an idealist, so when something like this happens it is core shattering! Is how I think all wrong? Am I naive? Too trusting? A dreamer? Lol if I am too much of a dreamy idealist it's a hard pill to swallow when life shows us otherwise. If I don't have my idealism I don't know who I am. I would change my core. Really messes with my identity. I know I will be ok and keep dreaming, but each time I definitely become more guarded who I share my dreams with. I would rather shoot for the moon and miss and land in the mud, than aim for the mud and hit it! What dies not kill us makes us stronger!

Def don't change healthy traits about yourself and you're identity. Just be conscious of your unhealthy head in the clouds traits when it relates to what you are willing to accept in a r/a

You'll find someone who will sit and dream with you and be your co-pilot to the moon and it will be GENUINE not mirroring to get you to drop your guard like a borderline will do.

Just be very selective with who you choose next time. My T told me pretend like you are CEO if a company you yourself built from the ground up, what type of business partner would you take on? Fact check their relationship resume, are they going to care about this company as much as you? Do they want to be a team player and see the business succeed or are they just looking for a paycheck?

[Rebuilding me]

I will hold onto my healthy traits for sure and attempt to be more aware. The biggest mind trip is I had gotten out of another relationship 8 months prior, where I weekend I was the one and the next she was running away! I did all things to heal: self help books yoga, working out, relationship books etc... . I felt so confident in what I wanted and who I was! I was so careful, I tested my recent ex maybe over the top to keep my boundaries strong! She passed with flying colors. Every time I would test her or say something that might make her run away she gave the perfect answers! It was unreal like God placed her in my life after I had worked through all my past baggage. It was too good to be true! How utterly heart breaking it all is now! My test will be even greater and thus will most likely scare off any healthy woman I meet in the future where the could be something real! That is what scares me now!

[Learning_curve74]

When I say I love you it is never words, and I don't say I want to spend the rest of my life with you lightly! When I hear the same thing I believe it! I make a conscious commitment to that person I give my heart to! Three times in 33 years my heart has been torn apart. Each time I think I'm more careful, but it always ends in shock and heartbreak! How can one ever trust what being said is real? I have a great capacity to love, but honestly do not think I could survive this type of heart break again, which I know will impact any future relationship because in the back of my mind I will have created my own abandonment issues!

Hey Rebuilding, these feelings are entirely understandable in the aftermath of any breakup, not just breaking up with a BPDer. I totally identify with having your heart broken, I don't say "I love you" lightly either. However, words are never enough, it's always actions that tell the real truth behind the words.

I feel that everyday is "reality testing." Are you going to get up and be the person you want to be today? What about the person you love, are they still acting like the person you fell in love with?

On a practical matter, why don't you just turn your phone into the phone company and get your own phone? Why must she do this, aren't you an adult with the ability to do your own thing? Maybe you'll have to get a new phone number which is a pain in the butt, but a lot of things are a pain to deal with. I don't like to change the oil in my car, but that's not going to stop me from doing it.

[dansure]

Your ex really reminds of of mine. She is also undiagnosed and I read about BPD after our break up, because I didn't understand how she could cut me of so drastically from her life and how she could hate me so much after our break up.

She was also probably the Waif type, she would always victimize herself and make me feel bad about myself. I have my temper and sometimes I reacted harsh, but that's just human, everyone has flaws and I always apologized. She never accepted it though and started to picture as some aggressive guy who wants to harm her. She herself didn't really raged but during fights she said very hurtful things and was often passiv aggressive. When I confronted her with that behavior she would cry until I would say that it's my fault, even though it wasn't.


Anyway, as I said she also completely cut me off her life as well. She also only replied when I texted her regarding her stuff that she left at my place. Later I found that she dated someone else after 2 month already.

Just let it go. I know that you are probably wondering if she really had BPD and how she can treat you like this. But if you ended here, whether  she had BPD or not, it was a toxic relationship. And if she cut you off that drastically she probably has a new boyfriend. But just try to move on and be sure that her next relationship will probably be the same and that the next guy might end up here as well in a few month or years.

Just take a look at healthy couples around you and you will noticed that thinking about her it not worth it. Try to get yourself together and find a healthy woman in which investing time and effort to build a relationship is worth it and pays off. One that doesn't break up with you over every single fight you have.

Our break up was 5 month ago now. Believe me, it will get better and eventually once you have some distance you will notice that you don't really want her back, you only miss that feeling she gave you. But other, healthier woman are also able to give you that feeling.

[Rebuilding me]

I guess my biggest issue is idealism! I consider myself a man of morals and values, yet I find myself in between worlds of the devout and pious and the outlandish drunks! I myself have never been a drunk but have partied pretty hard. I feel like I'm no longer willing to put up with my past immaturities yet I'm not quite a healthy responsible adult! In my case I have shown patience waiting for the right woman for me, while throughout the years I have seen my friends dive head first in shallow relationships time after time. I cannot relate to the bar fly, while at the same time a healthy partner I feel cannot relate with me!   with my ex I felt I found a woman who was where I am, even beyond what I understand now, beyond her mirroring. I have a glimpse of who she is, I think? I have always prided myself on seeing behind the masks people wear. By wearing my heart on my sleeve I have seen how people drop their guards and seen who is behind the curtain. 

I feel like a lot of the discussion on this board is about how our pwBPDs idealized us and how the r/s was fantasy! I don't think I believe that in all cases. I think that what we shared with these individuals was not fantasy, but the greatest truth that can be shared between people.  Sure we were put on a pedestal and that felt great and satisfied our narcissistic  or co-dependency/rescuer needs, but from what I gather and relate to all the people on this site is, we do in a way deserve to be put on a pedestal. Not in an unhealthy or narcissistic way, but because of our ability to love, care and to understand our fellow human beings and in particular our partners has allowed for a real at the utmost core true connection with another person even in a spiritual matter!

In my case I can see how I was caught in the fantasy of the idealization, but I will never fully be able to shake what I know to be true. That being is, that what I shared with this individual, who cannot face reality fully because of past pains, was without a doubt  real. More real than what the science or study of psychology will ever fully be able to grasp. I believe from my readings on this board is that there is one undoubtable conclusion; we all have a great capacity to love, or at least did at one point, for healthy or  unhealthy reasons!

I have found in my life that I cut through the bs of people, thus why I am in the behavioral health field. People love my honesty, but I know they fear it also! Because I do not get into great depths with all of my relationships, I do not always cut to the core! With my ex she idealized me because I showed her what it truly means to love, nothing shallow, but to the depth of what it means to be human. Tragically reaching such depth leads to other aspects; the darker side of what it means to be human! If one discovers these depth, it can be cloud nine (idealization) in terms of what love is, but if one is not versed in seeing and embracing pain in their life, or if they have suppressed it, a $h*t storm of negative  emotions is the only logical outcome!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the pain associated with pwBPD is not just the loss of an idealization stage, but the loss of a connection that is on a deeper level than many people ever experience. Nons hurt because they understand this loss, and BPDs hurt because although truth is revealed to them through love, so is the truth of pain and they are incapable of separating the two! The intensity of emotions! As rescuers we understand the great potential of what could be with these lost loves, depths of love and connection beyond the norm! With  pwBPD the pain is not worth the potential gain!

It reminds me of the story of Icarus flying to close to the sun!