Affair w/married longtime friend w/BPD

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Yes, folks like me on the leaving board who have been abused, lied to, cheated on, disrespected, belittled, condescended to, sometimes for many years, can sound a little jaded, as well as totally pissed off, a natural response to abuse, and anger is a necessary stage of grieving and healing.

Borderline personality disorder is a serious mental illness, and over time we develop sympathy for a sufferer, although empathy is difficult because that requires seeing things and feeling things the way a borderline does, which is very difficult and complex.  But the disorder still does not relieve the sufferer of responsibility.

You do sound like you are trying to leave, so of the boards on this site this may be the right one, but you also sound confused about all of the issues involved and your role in them, which we all were or are as we detach.  Take care a you!

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, folks like me on the leaving board who have been abused, lied to, cheated on, disrespected, belittled, condescended to, sometimes for many years, can sound a little jaded, as well as totally pissed off, a natural response to abuse, and anger is a necessary stage of grieving and healing.

Borderline personality disorder is a serious mental illness, and over time we develop sympathy for a sufferer, although empathy is difficult because that requires seeing things and feeling things the way a borderline does, which is very difficult and complex.  But the disorder still does not relieve the sufferer of responsibility.

You do sound like you are trying to leave, so of the boards on this site this may be the right one, but you also sound confused about all of the issues involved and your role in them, which we all were or are as we detach.  Take care a you!

[DivorcedNon]

Let me refocus discussion to the real problem for a minute and leave BPD crap aside. You are involved in destroying someone's marriage. That trumps BPD any time! If you think that this is a tough crowd go to some other boards that deal with Infidelity (talkaboutmarrige.com for example). Post your story. They will call you POSOM. Find out what that is. They will shred you into pieces and all of that in order to wake you up and get you our of this emotionally nauseating hole that you are in.

Your are welcome!

[joekro]

DivorcedNon, I don't know what happened in your life but I don't wish to exacerbate anger so I will quietly tell you that I am wrought with guilt and anguish over what I participated in. I come from a broken home and know the pain involved for all family members when the unit as a whole is at risk, and I supplied the opportunity for this one. I am ashamed of what I did. Feel free to verbally punch me in the face because I do deserve it. But, my jaw is not made of glass. You catch alot more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

When I have made up my mind to disappear completely, I will return to this board.

Again, thank you to all.

[fromheeltoheal]

Like I said jocro, your stance has changed dramatically since the beginning of this thread, or maybe you're just digging deeper and sharing more.  In any case if you've decided to leave, which is the right thing to do, if you're like us many conflicting emotions will come up as you detach emotionally, and this is a good place to air them and get some help and support.  Take care a you!

[Mutt]

Jocro,

Here is a little dose of reality - if you were so "concerned" about her husband or her marriage or the demise of it - you wouldn't have been screwing another man's wife.  OR putting yourself in an inappropriate relationship (INCLUDING friendship) with another man's wife.

If this is truly about a love you have for her - then you would stop this right now and remove yourself from her and her husband's lives.  Immediately and completely.

Sorry - Not trying to sound judgmental here - but what is right is right.  Sometimes there really IS a definite right and wrong.

I don't see how you are even remotely confused over what is right in this situation and whether or not you should TOTALLY BOOT YOURSELF OUT as you do not belong in any form in her life.  

That is her husband - and he is the one she should have this type of relationship with - not you.

Very clear from my perspective what the answer is.  You can take that or leave it or argue it if you want.  Frankly - I'm not God and the one who lays out whether this relationship you had and may continue to have with this woman is wrong - He's the one that defines that so I guess you would have to argue the point with him if it is disliked.

However - I guarantee you if it was YOUR wife you would have a totally different pair of glasses on.

You don't have any right to this woman.  She is not to be something special in your life.  She is in a covenant with her husband - and you are mixing a whole lot of disaster over your life, her life, her husband's life and her children's lives with the decisions you are making.

You do not belong there.  Repent (which means to turn around in the complete opposite direction/180) and remove yourself and go on with your life.

The best you can do at this point without causing more damage to all of the people involved now with the decision you two made is to be completely removed and ask God to help them now (not you "helping" in the wake of you two's destruction.

I'm sure her husband and children are hurting much more than the two of you put together.  :)o the right thing and bow out.

For those members that have know me on this board for a little while will know what my stance is when it comes to affairs as I was that husband and kids that where hurt.

I agree w/ Lady31 and sometimes I think that I do think too much in black and white, but when it comes to this, there is a definite right and wrong.

Jocro, your asking to be the OM or POSOM.

You have no idea what kind of pain you are going to inflict on the husband and kids.

Be a respectful man and let them divorce etc... . but don't be the catalyst.

Court a woman that is not married, put real work into it... .

[santa]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

[Mutt]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

Santa, thanks for saying what I was thinking and didn't type. 

[joekro]

Aren't we all... .


These assaults are somewhat juvenile.

I think I am going to reassess the productivity this chatting provides.

I was never out for sympathy, just wanted to try this "theraputic" resource. I think I will go it alone.

[Mutt]

Aren't we all... .


These assaults are somewhat juvenile.

I think I am going to reassess the productivity this chatting provides.

I was never out for sympathy, just wanted to try this "theraputic" resource. I think I will go it alone.

What you should reassess is your head.

What therapeutic resource is there for a man sleeping with a married woman?

[fromheeltoheal]

We all bring our own stuff to these boards jocro, and you're on a board with folks who have been in great pain as a result of their relationship with someone with a personality disorder.  I wasn't married to mine and she wasn't married to someone else, but your situation is triggering for a lot of folks here who have had families destroyed by the infidelity of their disordered partner, so to them you are the other guy and you're triggering their pain.  I have a gift for stating the obvious, but maybe that helps and you can find some support here somewhere if you need it.

[joekro]

My sincere apologies to anyone I have upset. This is why I will go a different route. I know I have caused irreparable damage to her husband and children, I can't take it back. If I could, I would. All I can is do feel my way through this maze for I have never been in this situation before, and I will never be here again.

Mutt, you may find this difficult to believe but this was my first and LAST affair. If I were married and this happened to me, I would be completely out of my mind and if someone like me was posting what I am, I'd be inclined to hunt him down and rid the world of him. I'm not here to inflict any pain on anybody and I'm sorry if I have.

[Mutt]

My sincere apologies to anyone I have upset. This is why I will go a different route. I know I have caused irreparable damage to her husband and children, I can't take it back. If I could, I would. All I can is do feel my way through this maze for I have never been in this situation before, and I will never be here again.

Mutt, you may find this difficult to believe but this was my first and LAST affair. If I were married and this happened to me, I would be completely out of my mind and if someone like me was posting what I am, I'd be inclined to hunt him down and rid the world of him. I'm not here to inflict any pain on anybody and I'm sorry if I have.

Thank you for the apology jocro.

I can't give you much help in this area, but I hope you ever don't end up on the other side of it because the collateral damage is devastating and the pain is very deep and long-lasting on a family.

I sense remorse jocro, bow out and don't do something like this again to a family is my advice.

Become a better man than this, good luck to you.

[myself]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

Wow. I understand people here being triggered, upset, and having opinions about it. I go through it too. Reading this is triggering for me, bringing back memories of my ex saying things like that. What good would it do to attack you about it? It's so dismissive of what someone else is going through.

Having pain that's taken out on someone else, aren't many of us here trying to deal with that very thing? Constructive criticism, when someone is reaching out, is one thing, but this post crosses the line.

Mrs. Claus must have really done a number on you, Santa. As did most of our former partners here. I'm sorry you're going through it. Did she reach out for help, the way jocro is, admitting her misdeeds and seeking understanding? Probably not. How about some basic respect for him for at least trying.

[santa]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

Wow. I understand people here being triggered, upset, and having opinions about it. I go through it too. Reading this is triggering for me, bringing back memories of my ex saying things like that. What good would it do to attack you about it? It's so dismissive of what someone else is going through.

Having pain that's taken out on someone else, aren't many of us here trying to deal with that very thing? Constructive criticism, when someone is reaching out, is one thing, but this post crosses the line.

Mrs. Claus must have really done a number on you, Santa. As did most of our former partners here. I'm sorry you're going through it. Did she reach out for help, the way jocro is, admitting her misdeeds and seeking understanding? Probably not. How about some basic respect for him for at least trying.

I've never even been married and my ex didn't cheat on me.

I just find it disgusting for someone to be involved with a married person. It's so degrading to everyone involved. The whole situation makes my skin crawl.

For that guy to fool around with a married woman and then come here looking for sympathy and try to justify his behavior and look for us to enable him to keep fooling with her really bothers me.

This site isn't supposed to be about that.

[Mutt]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

Wow. I understand people here being triggered, upset, and having opinions about it. I go through it too. Reading this is triggering for me, bringing back memories of my ex saying things like that. What good would it do to attack you about it? It's so dismissive of what someone else is going through.

Having pain that's taken out on someone else, aren't many of us here trying to deal with that very thing? Constructive criticism, when someone is reaching out, is one thing, but this post crosses the line.

Mrs. Claus must have really done a number on you, Santa. As did most of our former partners here. I'm sorry you're going through it. Did she reach out for help, the way jocro is, admitting her misdeeds and seeking understanding? Probably not. How about some basic respect for him for at least trying.

myself, i think your looking in the "gray" area here and kudos to you. Speaking for myself, I'm sorry but I can't and I won't. I live by a certain moral compass and I can't be persuaded to come to the middle on infidelity.

I don't think that santa crossed a line. I think he said what many of us think that have been scorned like this. If it's out of bounds, well, that's what mods and admins are for.

I give jocro respect for apologizing and I wish him good luck on his life journey and that he changes things around for himself and puts morals / values in front of sex.

[fromheeltoheal]

I've never even been married and my ex didn't cheat on me.

I just find it disgusting for someone to be involved with a married person. It's so degrading to everyone involved. The whole situation makes my skin crawl.

For that guy to fool around with a married woman and then come here looking for sympathy and try to justify his behavior and look for us to enable him to keep fooling with her really bothers me.

This site isn't supposed to be about that.

And as we saw this thread was anything but enabling.  Also, if you read jocro's posts on this thread from the beginning, his stance has changed, and he seems to be experiencing the confusion we all did as we left our exes; when the fog clears there's more clarity.  I've never screwed around with a married woman, I too have a moral problem with it, but if my ex was married when she came at me the way she did, I honestly don't know what I would have done, because I got lost.  Not defending jocro's actions, just sayin I can relate to what could happen.  Remember, personality disorder.

[santa]

I've never even been married and my ex didn't cheat on me.

I just find it disgusting for someone to be involved with a married person. It's so degrading to everyone involved. The whole situation makes my skin crawl.

For that guy to fool around with a married woman and then come here looking for sympathy and try to justify his behavior and look for us to enable him to keep fooling with her really bothers me.

This site isn't supposed to be about that.

And as we saw this thread was anything but enabling.  Also, if you read jocro's posts on this thread from the beginning, his stance has changed, and he seems to be experiencing the confusion we all did as we left our exes; when the fog clears there's more clarity.  I've never screwed around with a married woman, I too have a moral problem with it, but if my ex was married when she came at me the way she did, I honestly don't know what I would have done, because I got lost.  Not defending jocro's actions, just sayin I can relate to what could happen.  Remember, personality disorder.

I'm sure she's difficult and I'm sure she put him through the wringer. If you mess with a married lady, you get what you deserve though.

[Pearl55]

Jocro

You are not responsible for her affair! She is an adult and responsible for her actions. Non BPDs on this board usually been able to see behind their borderline's MASKS and wised up. Non BPDs in other boerds still live in fantasy and have no clear understandings from disorder. My husband didn't cheat on me and I always felt he was in love with me. Don't get me wrong if my husband did cheat on me I would walk away because I didn't want to force myself to someone who doesn't love me. Life is about choices. So many people have affairs in normal relationships and find their love of their life. It's up to their opinions how they view their life.

Bpd is a different story. You are involved with an actress not a victim! It takes a very long time for non disordered people to work out everything.  I'm not talking about being involve with a married woman I'm talking about a disordered woman.

I accidentally noticed about my husband and everything was fine on surface. Take care.

[myself]

Cheating takes (at least) two.

I've been cheated on, I know how bad it hurts.

Attacking someone doesn't make it better.

[Mutt]

So many people have affairs in normal relationships and find their love of their life.

Do you have a source for this? I think that you are wrong. It's slim to almost none for it to become a long lasting relationship.

What's wrong with getting divorced first or at least separated with the intent of divorce, instead of overlapping?

[laelle]

Cheating takes (at least) two.

I've been cheated on, I know how bad it hurts.

Attacking someone doesn't make it better.

Short but sweet and I agree totally!

[Pearl55]

Mutt you have got a very black and white way of thinking. I haven't got source but I've been witnessed a lot. I have always been so honest with my husband and with everyone else. I don't approve cheating, not at all BUT if the husband of that woman was wise enough he should be away from her before and if he had a self worth he should have divorced her after cheating!

When cheating happens in normal relationship that marriage is OVER and that person is responsible for it. That means the person cheats hasn't got the right feeling for the other one. He doesn't know what is BPD. You should respect him for being brave enough to get some advice. He thinks he wants to save her, he's got no idea what's going on!

[Mutt]

I agree w/ Lady31 and sometimes I think that I do think too much in black and white, but when it comes to this, there is a definite right and wrong.

Mutt you have got a very black and white way of thinking.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I haven't got source but I've been witnessed a lot.

If you've witnessed  it doesn't mean that it's true in general. I have checked sources and it's > 7% of succeeding.

When cheating happens in normal relationship that marriage is OVER and that person is responsible for it.

 I don't remember getting divorce papers when my uBPDex cheated.

[maxen]

i haven't read this thread as it would trigger me, but i like this:

Jocro,

Here is a little dose of reality - if you were so "concerned" about her husband or her marriage or the demise of it - you wouldn't have been screwing another man's wife.  OR putting yourself in an inappropriate relationship (INCLUDING friendship) with another man's wife.

If this is truly about a love you have for her - then you would stop this right now and remove yourself from her and her husband's lives.  Immediately and completely.

Sorry - Not trying to sound judgmental here - but what is right is right.  Sometimes there really IS a definite right and wrong.

I don't see how you are even remotely confused over what is right in this situation and whether or not you should TOTALLY BOOT YOURSELF OUT as you do not belong in any form in her life. 

That is her husband - and he is the one she should have this type of relationship with - not you.

Very clear from my perspective what the answer is.  You can take that or leave it or argue it if you want.  Frankly - I'm not God and the one who lays out whether this relationship you had and may continue to have with this woman is wrong - He's the one that defines that so I guess you would have to argue the point with him if it is disliked.

However - I guarantee you if it was YOUR wife you would have a totally different pair of glasses on.

You don't have any right to this woman.  She is not to be something special in your life.  She is in a covenant with her husband - and you are mixing a whole lot of disaster over your life, her life, her husband's life and her children's lives with the decisions you are making.

You do not belong there.  Repent (which means to turn around in the complete opposite direction/180) and remove yourself and go on with your life.

The best you can do at this point without causing more damage to all of the people involved now with the decision you two made is to be completely removed and ask God to help them now (not you "helping" in the wake of you two's destruction.

I'm sure her husband and children are hurting much more than the two of you put together.  Do the right thing and bow out.

apparently nobody said this to my w or her paramour, and a few were in the position to do so. what people.

[joekro]

Please, everyone... . regardless of the circumstance, we are all here to figure things out and improve the current status of our lives. Confession, redemption, clarity, and understanding are the cornerstones of this. I think it is very counter productive to have fighting among the ranks and I sense animosity and contempt among us. Lets just all take a deep breath and reset.

[Mutt]

Please, everyone... . regardless of the circumstance, we are all here to figure things out and improve the current status of our lives. Confession, redemption, clarity, and understanding are the cornerstones of this. I think it is very counter productive to have fighting among the ranks and I sense animosity and contempt among us. Lets just all take a deep breath and reset.

I understand jocro and as much as this thread is triggering for myself. I'm actually glad for it. I got to vent out a little bit and it made me think about what I would say to OM if I had a chance to talk to him.

I have kids. It just makes think of what people are thinking when something like this happens. In regards to my wife. She didn't make a decision for one person. I had a family of 6. She made the choice for 5 other people and put herself in front of everyone else. I'm just tired of hearing blanket excuses to mask the fact that two people where selfish. "It wasn't meant to be" "I'm really happy now" I found true love" You know what uBPDex, your selfish.

I get all of that, I honestly do. I think there is just a different way of getting to that happiness and there's no need to be so destructive about it. In the case of my ex, she overlapped. She didn't want to go through abandonment depression. Your not happy, but your overlapping to throw the failed marriage on me and force my hand in divorcing you. You want a divorce yet you don't want to be the one that has to deal with it? It's passive aggressive. That's what happened in my case. Your not happy, fine, but there's a better way about it?

I could go out and listen to a wife lament about her husband etc... . and hit all of the right notes and telling her what she wants to hear, it's easy pickings compared to actually going out and dating and winning over that woman. That's work.

That gray area was pretty painful to 5 people and not simply 2 and I heard so many excuses from her friends / family and not one of them gave any consideration to my kids and their feelings. That black / white thinking, I don't see it like that, I see it as I choose to live in this case by my "core" values and I won't be persuaded. That's one of the reasons why my ex and I didn't jive, because our core values don't align.

If she fears abandonment, and she hooks-up with someone that has no problems with sleeping with married people, I would be worried if I was her. What's to say that neither are going to find "the one" behind each others back?

Good luck to them both after setting the foundation of their r/s on cheating and lying.

[fromheeltoheal]

OK, and you did say in your opening post that you were open to criticism, not a problem for people who have been on the other side and are triggered.  A little passion is good, it means we're getting real.

You also said I am, however, available to her for anything.  Is that still the case?

[myself]

A little passion is good, it means we're getting real.

I know what you're saying here, and agree.

I can also see those words coming from a pwBPD, and a cheater.

It's where are you coming from, where are you going.

[joekro]

I don't know fromheeltoheal. At this moment, if she called I would not answer. Tomorrow, is another day. I'm fighting my urges to keep the door open and unlocked for her. it's tough. I will keep repeating to myself that those people whom I hurt are good people and do not deserve to suffer due to my actions.

Today has really opened my eyes to the trauma these unsavory relationships create for the innocent others involved. From where I sit as the OM, despicable.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't know fromheeltoheal. At this moment, if she called I would not answer. Tomorrow, is another day. I'm fighting my urges to keep the door open and unlocked for her. it's tough. I will keep repeating to myself that those people whom I hurt are good people and do not deserve to suffer due to my actions.

Today has really opened my eyes to the trauma these unsavory relationships create for the innocent others involved. From where I sit as the OM, despicable.

Well there you go, value from the boards.  We look forward to you hanging around and continuing on this board, it seems like the right one for you based on where you are in your relationship.