Affair w/married longtime friend w/BPD

[joekro]

I'm so glad this resource exists. Back in Nov, the affair I was involved in w/my married BPD friend was discovered by her better half and we are now over. I think. Backstory... . back in the early nineties, I met a girl whom I became, well, best friends with. She was/is a stunning woman and she had many "callers". Our early relationship developed into something that I can't compare anything to. I would play my guitar for her and she would almost be in tears. She, would write me poetry that would cause me to weep as well. She was my biggest fan and I was hers. We were so comfortable together that we would even sleep in the same bed without sexual contact, just warm cuddling in the morning as we would discuss our dreams. It was and still is the most perfect time in my life. A real connection with another human.

I moved away and all contact with her was lost. I thought about her frequently and was always curious how things were in her life( I was unaware of her condition until a few weeks into the affair). 18yrs after losing contact, I decide I will track her down (about a year ago) and I do. I find her married and a mother. I overlook the obvious inappropriate implications of contacting a married woman and give her a shout. BANG! we are back in our twenties and the excitement of hearing her voice and her hearing mine was otherwordly. Needless to say, the cycle began the very next day and soon she was telling me she loved me, and I , in return tell her the same. I don't think we were talking about the same kind of love though. I loved her in a different, intellectual, mutual respect level. A love for someones well being and success, not romance. Based on what I've read about BPD, she cannot love in the same way as a healthier mind can, if at all.

I've known about the abuse she suffered as a child and early in the affair she informed me of her diagnosis. My heart sank. My best friend is troubled! I will save her! The daily calls and countless texts from her drew me in like a bee to a flower. This satisfied my "superman" issues like nothing else before. The friend status was intact throughout the whole affair, but we definately took many steps beyond that line in the sand and had quite a steamy romance.

After reading all of the available info on the subject of BPD and reading stories about BPD relationships, I have yet to find a similar situation to mine... . I know what has happened and the hows and whys, but what happens next? She has called several times since the discovery of the affair and apologizes endlessly, tells me she still loves me.  She also seems committed to make her marriage work. I don't want my friend to join the divorce club. I do love her, all of her. Her condition does NOT bother me. I have known her too long to turn my back on her because she is troubled.  I would appreciate any input, criticism, advice that anyone may have about how I should handle what is coming, or not coming.

[santa]

Married women are nothing but trouble, man. I'm sure she's special and all, but there's no way this will end well for anyone. If I were you, I'd try to forget about her.

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex found me on Facebook again after 25 years and off to the races we went again.  Silly me in hindsight, but she's a hell of a buzz.  So I get it.

First thing is a relationship with a married woman won't end well, and of course you now have less reason to trust her in any relationship you might create with her in the future, because she's cheating on her husband now.  If she did decide she wants to be with you, you should stop seeing each other, she should divorce her husband, and then you could start a more honest relationship.

And then there's the BPD thing.  You know this gal well, so it's up to you to decide if you want to take that ride, and there are countless stories here and in my real life of borderlines who were who they needed to be until the wedding, and then showed up as who they really are with BPD traits in full bloom.  I'm sure you also realize it's common for borderlines to maintain multiple relationships, emotional or more, with suitors to soothe there ever-present fear of abandonment.  Boils down to what do you want?  And are you going to do the shadowy affair thing, or are you going to require her to be more accountable to you and her husband?  Maybe it's OK to you to have a relationship with her on any level, and it doesn't matter that she's married to someone else?

[joekro]

See, that's the thing, I'm not pining over "us" being over and from the start it was understood that we would end it at some point in time. We lost that chance when we where caught. What my concern is that she will resent her husband because "we" weren't the ones to end it on our terms. I'm not looking for a dreamy, endless romance with her, I know her condition too well to believe I'm someone special... . or am I? We go so far back and shared so many experiences as best friends, will this matter?

The friend in me wants to do everything I can to assure her marriage survives, the man in me who fell in love with her wants the same. In actuality, its completely out of my hands. . I feel there is no f'ing way I could ever forget or walk away from her, especially now that I know why she is the way she is because of her BPD. I have not and will not contact her for any reason whatsoever. I am, however, available to her for anything.

Thank you for listening and responding.

[Happy1]

Jocro, take of what's best for YOUR future not hers. She's done fine without you all of these years. She'll survive.

You on the other hand likely will get burned big time one of two ways. She'll either leave you heartbroken or you'll get deeper involved and then experience all of her BPD traits and have to deal with all that comes with it.

Look at it like, years ago, you won a little bit from a familiar slot machine and it felt good. You've since been able to do without that fix, but for whatever reason were drawn to the chance to gamble again. Once again, you got a bit of a payoff by having this affair. So, you're a winner, right? Cut your losses and don't go for another round. Let this r/s die and along with it, your feelings to protect/save/rescue. This way you'll be able to preserve your feelings of truly caring about her, without having to show it. It's great you care about her and all, but let her do the heavy lifting in her life, you'll both be better off.

[fromheeltoheal]

See, that's the thing, I'm not pining over "us" being over and from the start it was understood that we would end it at some point in time. We lost that chance when we where caught. What my concern is that she will resent her husband because "we" weren't the ones to end it on our terms. I'm not looking for a dreamy, endless romance with her, I know her condition too well to believe I'm someone special... . or am I? We go so far back and shared so many experiences as best friends, will this matter?

The friend in me wants to do everything I can to assure her marriage survives, the man in me who fell in love with her wants the same. In actuality, its completely out of my hands. . I feel there is no f'ing way I could ever forget or walk away from her, especially now that I know why she is the way she is because of her BPD. I have not and will not contact her for any reason whatsoever. I am, however, available to her for anything.

Thank you for listening and responding.

Honestly that sounds attractive to me too; be there for her when she wants, enjoy the buzz, send her back to her life, although I couldn't keep the necessary emotional distance from her without wanting more, but the thought of spending limited time with her so that she stayed untriggered for it does sound good, a fantasy, but good.  It's too late for us though; she did get triggered a lot, and I was abused emotionally, psychologically and physically, and although there's that side of me that might still respond to the buzz that is her, what's happened is completely unacceptable, and I would be disrespecting myself to have anything to do with her, especially without any accountability on her part and lots of blame.

She told me when we were together that there were 'about' 10 guys who 'just showed up' randomly, former conquests and flings, looking for more.  It was probably a lie, or at minimum a stretch of the truth, to manipulate me and increase her apparent value in her head, but I've also learned that a 'good guy' like me who loved her unconditionally could not meet all of the needs of a borderline; she needed 'bad boys' who didn't care about her and treated her badly as well, to fulfill some need buried in her psyche.  She was a hell of a buzz, an addiction, but nothing to get long term sustenance from.

[musicfan42]

Jocro, I'd like to hear about your thoughts and feelings.

What was going on in your life that you felt that you had to track down this person? Were you bored/dissatisfied with your life at that point? Were you married/dating anyone or were you single?

There's certain parts of your narrative that just doesn't ring true to me. You say that you didn't want your BPD ex to get divorced... really?  If you loved her so much, then why would you want her being with her husband? That doesn't make any sense to me.

And then you say that you loved her on an intellectual level yet you write about how she wrote you poetry and she played the guitar. I'm creative too so I can appreciate the connection that there can be between creative people however there needs to be more in a relationship than just that. I remember years ago, I dated this guy who wanted to be a writer. He was very intelligent... creative, well-read... we had a lot of things in common. But he just didn't treat me very well. What good was his intelligence when he wasn't being honest and straight-forward with me?

I wonder whether your BPD ex was perhaps toying with your affections, leading you. Surely that's an unhealthy relationship to be in?  You mention how she says she wants to work on her marriage yet she's saying that she still loves you. Isn't that part of the push-pull dynamic that is part of BPD?

You also write about how you could sleep in the bed without sexual contact and cuddle in the morning. And how you could discuss your dreams with each other. I'd just consider those things part of a healthy relationship... not even that intimate. You write about how it was "a real connection with another human" which makes me wonder whether you have issues connecting with people and in particular women?

[joekro]

I appreciate the points presented by everyone, but I must make something clear, I'm not looking for a romantic r/s with her. It was understood from the start that we would end the affair ourselves at some point, and we were close (Ironically, we had decided to end it after one more rendevous, as I mentioned earlier we lost that opportunity). I'm paranoid a divorce is imminent.

She loves her husband, and the entire time we were together we battled the guilt of what we were doing, which is why we knew we had to end it, and soon. I swear though, leaving her in the lurch is not an option. If God sends her my way because her marriage failed, then so be it. I will become an authority on BPD and maybe break through and maybe (stress maybe) have a BPD success story.

musicfan, to address your perspective... . Your first question(s) is easy. I joined facebook in 09 but was not an avid user until about a year ago, but my friends kept sending me "friend" suggestions and before you know it I was looking up everyone I knew and jumped on the bandwagon. So naturally I looked her up, acquired her phone number and called rather then send a request because I wanted to surprise her, and also thought it a safer method then facebooking, I really didn't want to cause any unrest, just reunite with a dear old friend.

I don't want to see her divorce because I think she is where she needs to be. From early on, decades ago, we always put the others interests above our own, we really are very close. My comment about no sexual contact in our earlier r/s was made to highlight our simple interest in each others presence without the tension of sex. For me, and for her I think, it was remarkable that neither of us were really interested in anything physical, even though we were both "players" so to speak. It's like we could take a break from the game.

As far as her toying with my emotions... . perhaps. I'm a tough nut to crack though  

I hope I don't sound agro with my responses, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that my heart is not at stake here, her marriage is.

[joekro]

p.s. I'm the one who played guitar

[joekro]

One last thing, when she told me of her condition she wanted me to learn as much as I could about BPD and she is very aware that she has this serious problem. She is in therapy and on meds. She is also the one who suggested I join this chat service.

[musicfan42]

Yeah, I know that you're the one who played guitar. That was just a typo!

[joekro]

Geez, I forgot an important element, since late Nov (discovery date) she has called several times and at first it was about once a week. She then managed to go 17 days without calling and it has been 9 days since her last call. Yes, I keep count and I'm sure she does too. I hope that slowly but surely, the dust will settle and she will live happily ever after with her dream guy... . whomever that may be.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't get it man.  You're counting days and posting on a Leaving board.  Is this selfless love or denial?

[Inside]

Jocro,

I’d say ‘they’re all right,’ and likely have little to add.  If nothing else, I’m convinced beyond any doubt that pwBPD pick exceptional victims

So, with no better advice than what I’ve read till now …something instantly stuck me about your opening post.  You are a song writer…  I love to write, but your descriptions were boiled down to lyrics.  So - get your guitar and put them to use! 

Old enough to be a fan of The Cars, Ric Ocasek’s lyrics now sound to me as if he were writing to and about a pwBPD … no wonder few women liked the group… a lot of angry stuff beautifully crafted into his songs.  Makes me wonder which and how many other songs were inspired by the same twisted emotions of folks like us.

Follow the advice the others, then turn those feelings into music…  and who knows, money and fame  

[joekro]

I'm sorry but things keep popping into my head that I want to share. As long as I have known her I have never seen her "evil" side, never. The only symptoms she showed were an occasional dillusional episode. One in particular I would like to share with you. A few months ago she called late at night and was in another world, talking gibberish and making no sense at all, she then fell asleep with the phone next to her mouth. For 1 1/2 hrs I listened to her breathe (with a periodic sigh or whimper) and when she woke up she immediately called out my name, when I answered, she began to cry. She was genuinely overwhelmed that someone would more or less stand guard over her while she slept. I didn't do it for admiration or to score points, I did it because her well being is of primary importance to me. I don't want to be painted black, but if thats what she needs to do for her own health, then I will supply the brush. I honestly believe though she is tired of being sick and is going to make a break to the light. With or without me. I just want to see her well. Perhaps I should be posting on the "staying" section, it sounds to me like I have no plans on "detaching" any farther than I already have. Thank you all for your insight and opinions.

[joekro]

Oh yeah, I know The Cars, saw them back in the eighties in DC. Benjamin Orr was really behind most of the early stuff. Funny, when I hear ":)rive", guess who now comes to mind. I'm more of an instrumentalist, I really prefer to allow the listener to decide what its about for them. All of my favorite musicians are instrumentalists... . Jeff Beck, Vangelis, Ozric Tentacles, etc... . You are welcome to poach whatever I said that you think would make good lyrics and put them to music. Thank you for the compliment.

[Lady31]

Jocro,

Here is a little dose of reality - if you were so "concerned" about her husband or her marriage or the demise of it - you wouldn't have been screwing another man's wife.  OR putting yourself in an inappropriate relationship (INCLUDING friendship) with another man's wife.

If this is truly about a love you have for her - then you would stop this right now and remove yourself from her and her husband's lives.  Immediately and completely.

Sorry - Not trying to sound judgmental here - but what is right is right.  Sometimes there really IS a definite right and wrong.

I don't see how you are even remotely confused over what is right in this situation and whether or not you should TOTALLY BOOT YOURSELF OUT as you do not belong in any form in her life. 

That is her husband - and he is the one she should have this type of relationship with - not you.

Very clear from my perspective what the answer is.  You can take that or leave it or argue it if you want.  Frankly - I'm not God and the one who lays out whether this relationship you had and may continue to have with this woman is wrong - He's the one that defines that so I guess you would have to argue the point with him if it is disliked.

However - I guarantee you if it was YOUR wife you would have a totally different pair of glasses on.

You don't have any right to this woman.  She is not to be something special in your life.  She is in a covenant with her husband - and you are mixing a whole lot of disaster over your life, her life, her husband's life and her children's lives with the decisions you are making.

You do not belong there.  Repent (which means to turn around in the complete opposite direction/180) and remove yourself and go on with your life.

The best you can do at this point without causing more damage to all of the people involved now with the decision you two made is to be completely removed and ask God to help them now (not you "helping" in the wake of you two's destruction.

I'm sure her husband and children are hurting much more than the two of you put together.  Do the right thing and bow out.

[mini_vanilli]

"If God sends her my way because her marriage failed, then so be it."

Not sure which God you are referring to... . is it the one she made a marriage vow in front of? Exactly what role you think he would play in "sending her you way" would be?

"Ive never seen her "evil" side, never"

really? so blatantly breaking her vow of marriage with you is considered a "good" side of her? worse yet stringing you along while married to another man... . hmmm

You are destroying peoples lives including your own kind sir. please wake up and take another look. have you once stopped to think of the emotional devastation you have brought into her husbands life?

[KE151]

Jocro,

Lots of good but painful observations being made here.

We've all been there, bound under the BPD spell. It distracts us from reality and confuses some very basic aspects of our lives: right/wrong, need/want, love/lust, truth/lie.

As the "non" in this affair, you are accountable for a lot. Making the right decisions, as she is not capable of that.

God won't make any decisions for you and you cannot take cover behind His back in this.

Good luck!

[joekro]

I am humbled by these last posts... . You're right, the whole time I/we marginalized innocent people and made myself out to be some kind of hero. I have removed myself from the romantic part of this mess, now I suppose I should take our friendship and lock it away. When she calls, I will try with every cell in my body to tell her not to ever again. And if I can muster the courage I will even change my number. Damn, this is going to be difficult.

[laelle]

Sometimes the most loving thing you can do for someone is to let them go.

[happylogist]

Jocro,

This is the situation when the true friendship or love implies leaving her alone. You wrote that she loved her husband, it seemed to me that the future with her always assumed her staying with her husband and not you, you even write that you did no and do not want her divorce (except heroic idealization of the situation when 'God' sends her). Leave her and stop looking for a narcisstic supply of idealized love and friendship.

My uBPD ex, with whom I had a devasting affair, also throws similar 'eternal friendship' card, which brings nothing except hurt and havoc to my life. My story is different in dynamics, but the end result similar - either you take the responsibility for the affair fully and commit, both of you, or leave without unnecessary romanticism, aknowledging that this was a mistake. If you think the marriage is what she needs - then her husband has to be her best friend and love of her life. Not you - as a romantic memory of the past with the touch of victim of circumstances.

Also it seems that you ex knows that you post here, since she advised you to join the board, i wonder how much are the things you write here influenced by her probable stalking you here.

Good luck!

[joekro]

Both she and I know that this was more than a mistake, it was a transgression against humanity, and she wants to end her cycle of r/s destruction and save her marriage.

With regards to undo influence of my comments due to her "stalking", well, I know she is reading my posts. There is nothing here that I have not already told her, except my prior post about telling her not to call again. Maybe she won't call now that I have indicated my intentions as to the future. Who knows.

I just listened to "set them free" by Sting and one line stands out to me... . "you can't control and independent heart, (can't hold what you can't keep), can't tear the one you love apart".

I guess that when I found out about her condition, because I hold her so close to my heart, that my "superman" gene kicked in and I had the chance to make a difference. Problem is, I went about it all wrong and now I have to pay the bill, and its gonna wipe me out.

[KE151]

This seems like a very weird game you play.

[joekro]

I don't expect everyone to understand, it's this "best friend" dynamic that is hard to resolve in my head. I wouldn't call this a game because no one wins. The damage is done.

[DivorcedNon]

WOW! Let me understand what you are saying. You do not her her to divorce but you want to continue interfering in this woman's marriage. How noble of you. I have no respect for people like you and her! Stop painting yourself as a hero or a victim.

[joekro]

Tough crowd.

I think disrupted her marriage is a better descriptor.

I'm not sure some of you are reading all that I have said, so I will paraphrase... .

/I am the wolf who preyed on the sheep/

/I have not and will not contact her/

/If there is a call from her in the future, it will be the last and I am close to being able to change my number/

/I am trying my hardest to let her go/

/what I have done is unforgivable/

Please don't be critical of her though, in my opinion, she is the biggest victim of all.

[Pearl55]

Jocro

Involving with a borderline wether married or not is a recipe for disaster. She's not a victim and whatever feeling you have for this woman is not love, is your childhood issues that has come to surface. Get away from her for your own sanity!

[fromheeltoheal]

Please don't be critical of her though, in my opinion, she is the biggest victim of all.

Hi jocro-

I don't know if you've noticed, but your stance on this issue has changed since the beginning of this thread; maybe folk's feedback has helped you see the reality of what's going on?

In any case, a borderline wants you to think she's the biggest victim of all, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is so you can be blamed for everything, because poor her.  Remember she's the adulterer here, and although having an affair with a married woman is not good, her transgression is bigger than yours.  Sure, she's got BPD which is very challenging, but it doesn't relieve her of taking responsibility for her actions.

[joekro]

I honestly think that I may be posting on the wrong board. This board seems to be for people with a rather jaded view of those with this disorder and I don't wish to beat them up. Yes, she cheated. I  allowed it to happen. Would she have seeked out someone else if it wasn't me... . maybe. What is, is. There are countless victims in this world of BPD, and it is my position that those afflicted with it have been suffering for their entire existence and my heart goes out to them. I am not a victim. I am a predator. We all have issues do deal with in our lives and nobody gets it right every time. Yet he who hath no sin, cast the first stone.

I appreciate everybody's input and this conversation has helped me tremendously. Thank you.