boundary setting

[bluebasket321]

I'm having trouble with the whole boundary issue.  I have read books and posts on it but it still ties me up in knots. I have a lot of trouble applying the theory to practical situations.

For example, one thing that my BP friend does on occasion that drives me INSANE is make plans to do something and then just not show up. No call, no text, no nothing. No response when I contact her.  It could be days before she'll give some lame excuse if she even bothers to do that.

I think this behavior is downright rude and so disrespectful.  So how would I establish a boundary in this situation?

Not make plans with her anymore? (Isn't that tantamount to ending the friendship?)

Tell her I don't like it? (I've done that)

I really can't think of anything!  Does anyone have any ideas?

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[Theo41]

Blue basket, I really feel for u. It's got to be stressful and depressing to have a friend do this. We feel disrespected. I have a friend  who is totally unreliable. He's a trust fund baby who has had very little work experience. He is in recovery from drug dependence and obviously is very immature. I no longer reach out to him and now that he has a live-in girlfriend, I no longer hear from him. I like him a lot. He's great to spend time with but he never grew up. Fortunately I have lots of other friends so,while I miss him, I don't need him. In a way I am taking care of myself by relating to others and not subjecting myself to him.  My son, who is more grown up than me in this area handles these people this way: in a calm and respectful way he talks to them and tells them how they make him feel. Example: "You are consistently late for our get- togethers. It makes me feel hurt and disrespected. If it continues I won't continue our relationship. So I'm asking u to make a special effort to be on time." He's making a firm boundary. Most people shape up but some don't have their head together enough to make a change. Then it' s over. Another important thing to keep in mind: when someone says something, or does something, that offends u, it usually says something about them and not u. It helps to look a these people as sick or ill,and they are. I hope u find something in all of this that can help. All best to u. Theo

[waverider]

make plans to do something and then just not show up. No call, no text, no nothing. No response when I contact her.

Boundary action: your friend needs to call you just before they set off or you dont turn up either... The issue is your time wasted, so don't waste your time wondering. The onus is on them to confirm, or do without.

It wont force them to turn up, but you wont be left in the lurch so you can go ahead with plan B (always have a plan B)

No response when I contact her

Then dont contact her

[Lizlo]

Boundaries confuse me too!  Apparently I don't seem to have many, if any.  So I get your dilemma.  If I understand, the information I have come across, correctly.  " A clean, healthy boundary is a way to inform others as to how you wish to be treated, respected, and loved."  NOT how to get them to behave.  Its about your limit, NOT their punishment. 

You may say... . ( by the way, I obtained these samples from the Boundaries Tool Article on this website)

IF YOU WANT TO GIVE A WARNING: Lisa, when you don't show up I feel disrespected.  If you decide to stand me up one more time, I will remind you of my feelings. If you continue this behavior a second time,  I’ll stop inviting you out permanently.   (and because boundaries are about honoring our true self, you must honor the consequence.)

IF YOU DONT WANT TO GIVE A WARNING:  Lisa, when you dont show up I feel disrespected.  If you decide to stand me up one more time,  I’ll stop inviting you out permanently. 

It feels empowering just talking about it  =)... .

You know... . Perhaps you'll be able to meet an appreciative woman that would be honored to accompany you to these events.  That would feel much better than waiting around to see if "Lisa" ever shows up. 

[Lizlo]

Wait... . Waveriders idea is MUCH better than mine... . .   Can you tell who is new around here?   

[bluebasket321]

Since establishing boundaries is about determining our own responses to a situation rather than trying to control another person's behavior, do we need to tell the BP, "If you do x, I will do y", or would it be just as effective to just tell yourself, "if she does x, I will do y"?

[Lizlo]

I dont believe the boundaries objection is to determine our response although, if followed thru, it sets a clear understanding of what that response will be. 

Expecting others to anticipate and fulfill our needs is an example of "lack of boundaries".  How will the BP or anyone know what your boundaries are if you don't communicate them?   I think wording is also key.  The right wording will deliver the intended meaning appropriately. 

1.) If you do x, I will do y

or

2.) When you do x I feel y.  If you do x again I will express my feelings.  If you do it again I will do y.


I have a BPD ex husband that, REGARDLESS of wording, tone, timing... . will NEVER accept a "boundary". Instantly he would think... . I dont tell him what to do, he tells me!   And for YEARS my thought process was... . why even bother.  He doesn't listen.   ( My cute little codependent self in full activation mode) But i get it now... . Why bother?  BECAUSE I HAVE A RIGHT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG FOR ME.  I dont HAVE to accept it just because he doesn't want to go along with it.  I DECIDE HOW PEOPLE TREAT ME.  Of course, I'm not going to come out and start setting up rules when I first meet someone, but I will definitely let someone know... . Hey, that's not ok.  Here's how I feel about it.  And this is what I will and wont accept around this subject.  Ideally, the person I'm communicating with will then either agree or not.  We both will have the option of accepting terms.  BOTH OF US.  They have their terms and I have mine.

Your friend... . She has expectations of you, she just doesn't verbalize them.   The expectation is that regardless of how inconsiderate it may feel to you, she needs to put her needs first.  And she probably believes that its completely reasonable for you to place her needs above your own. 

[waverider]

Since establishing boundaries is about determining our own responses to a situation rather than trying to control another person's behavior, do we need to tell the BP, "If you do x, I will do y", or would it be just as effective to just tell yourself, "if she does x, I will do y"?

No you don't as they are not going to change as a response to your warning/request. Thats why you got in a pickle in the first place. In fact it may serve as a trigger for them to go into denial and maybe sidetracking onto a separate issue. You end up negotiating, JADEing, and compromise.

It may help you feel like you are being "fair'.

It's really your choice, just so long as you are aware it is unlikely to be effective.

[Theo41]

Bluebasket, You know I also find it helpful to be my own parent and ask: "how would my mother/father advise me on this? "  if I were in your situation ... . or mine (see above) my parent would say "move on. You don't deserve that. You can have friends that treat u well. It hurts me to think that someone could jerk you around like that and cause u pain.u deserve better!" The boundaries are for u. There's no need to articulate them " to be fair". Just decide what you are not willing to accept and withdraw from the relationship. Under the circumstances no explanation is needed. It is very ok for people to withdraw from dysfunctional relationships. If u can't do that yoU may need to find out why and work on that.

I have that situation with my wife but I'm also married . ( legal/moral obligation.) also there are many offsetting positives with my wife. Hope that helps . Theo

[Lilibeth]

Theo41 your post has helped clarify a lot of things for me. Thank you. The line 'u deserve better,' has given me a boost. For some years i thought a particular person was a friend and i accepted a lot of, which i now realize was meanness and aggressiveness, thinking she was a friend and would not really want to harm me. So while i was battling with the issue of my husband there was also this friend whose advice i was trying to fit into my battle... . result - total breakdown and unhappiness. I finally had to withdraw from that 'friendship'. Now i'm concentrating fully on trying to heal myself to deal with my husband.

[bruceli]

What has worked well for me is to always have a plan B.

[bluebasket321]

So here's where I am now:

1. BP friend doesn't respond to my message about plans we made, and doesn't get in touch at all for over a week

2. After a week she sends me an email asking where I am (even though she was the one who'd been unresponsive to me) and claiming to have been calling me all week (I didn't receive a single call from her). I email her back saying I don't know what she means, since I hadn't received a single message or call from her.  She does not reply to this email.

3. Then I receive a text message from a number I do not recognize asking, "Miss me?".  I do not reply. 

I receive another message from the same number saying "I thought u always replied to messages". 

I reply, "I'm afraid I don't recognize this number". 

The reply: "Only normal, since you don't know it"

At this point I stop responding to the messages from that number.

Finally BP friend says it's her new number.  And starts calling me incessantly.  I do not answer because I am not in the mood.

4.  Now, I don't want to be guilty of a BP-like silent treatment, but I just do not feel like talking to her now.  I am annoyed that she just blows me off when she feels like it, but when she's in the mood to talk she expects me to be there.

I always thought you should treat others the way you would like to be treated, but I don't know if this works with a BP.  Sometimes I think maybe what she needs is a taste of her own medicine.

I am running out of patience... .

[Theo41]

Bluebasket, Absenting yourself is not a bad idea, but if she has BPD don't expect a 180 degree turn around. As stated above, consider saying something like :  " I'm very upset right now because you don't consistently respond to my messages, and don't show up  when we plan to get together. I need some space for a week or two. I'll call u when I'm ready to talk and get together. But I have to tell u that if you don't turn over a new leaf, respond to messages and show up on time for our getogethers, it's over for me." Hope that helps. Theo