Are BPD attracted more to those who are damaged

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

What i mean is are they more attracted to those who are damaged, bad boy type, or rebel, or someone who is also mentally unstable, than someone who is mentally healthy? and Why?

For example after my breakup with my exBPDgf and started thinking maybe i was also a bit crazy, or narcissistic. I might be blowing it out of proportion. But even though i am not a BPD i do have some less than desirable traits as well.

Now comes my replacement. And from what i hear he is bit of a momas boy, dependent, acts a bit childish, and very narcissistic. I might be a little narcissistic but this guy takes the cake. I don't know him but from what i hear he is a douche bag. And he makes me look normal.

So are BPD more attracted to damaged people? and Why?

[Pinoypride18]

What i mean is are they more attracted to those who are damaged, bad boy type, or rebel, or someone who is also mentally unstable, than someone who is mentally healthy? and Why?

For example after my breakup with my exBPDgf and started thinking maybe i was also a bit crazy, or narcissistic. I might be blowing it out of proportion. But even though i am not a BPD i do have some less than desirable traits as well.

Now comes my replacement. And from what i hear he is bit of a momas boy, dependent, acts a bit childish, and very narcissistic. I might be a little narcissistic but this guy takes the cake. I don't know him but from what i hear he is a douche bag. And he makes me look normal.

So are BPD more attracted to damaged people? and Why?

[heartandwhole]

Hi pinoypride18,

It is said that we attract romantic partners who are at the same level of maturity as we are, and I agree.  It's hard to see that sometimes, but if we look deep enough, we can see that our issues and the pwBPD's issues worked together to make the relationship what it was.

An emotionally healthy person wouldn't put up with the BPD shenanigans that we did, or stay in an abusive situation.  Why did we?

Why do you think you were attracted to pwBPD?

[ggoman]

While I am not giving a response to your specific question, I still think the following remarks may be useful: In general, BPDs are attracted to folks they can manipulate and control. Often, these are people-pleaser "nice guy" types who are just looking for a good woman to love. I was such a guy. My exBPD's ex-husband was such a guy. It now seems like her new man is also such a guy. This isn't a coincidence. BPDs have an *intense* fear of abandonment, and they generally prey upon men they feel won't abandon them. Are some such men damaged? Absolutely. Are they all? I doubt it. The common denominator is that the BPD deems them to be an easy target (this alone does not imply the man is damaged). I've seen some such women seduce men which I would *think* would fall far short of their standards. For example, a beautiful, charismatic, educated, articulate BPD seduces a short, bald, overweight shift manager at McDonald's (I saw this happen in front of my own eyes) who has no clue what he's dealing with. By the time she sinks her fangs in, he's already hooked and doesn't have a chance. Some of these guys truly thought they met the woman of their dreams. If one has gone, say, 37 years without meeting his "soulmate", the thought of sticking it out and trying to "fix" things with his new emotional vampire in disguise can be very compelling.

As for why some nons *stay* in these relationships, see heartandwhole's post.

[Perfidy]

I think pwBPD are attracted to anyone that they can take advantage of. Like a parasite attached to a host. When the parasite detaches the host must heal. I'm healed.

[growing_wings]

heart and whole raises a good point.

on top of that one, i think pwBPD look for people who will be "easy" for them to manipulate, so they get what they need the most: "love" and or attention. they know that healthy stable folks will see the manipulation and will propably detach from the BPD as a survival instinct. But folks with co-dependency issues (like me) and other un-resolved issues are easier targets for them. We get so blinded by their seduction (emotional and physical)... . because we feel neediness too.

They might "target" the partner, but our own un-healed areas respond to the BPD seduction. So is not all their fault, it takes two to have a relationship.

[lucyhoneychurch]

As the oldest child of a uBPD mother, the answer to your question, for me, lies in what was *I* looking for as a young woman?

Love. Acceptance. Friendship with a man. All noble things... .

How did I go about finding that? jumping into any immediate return of my needs as her daughter - which were being a rescuer, being a fixer, being a caregiver (emotionally I am talking about those roles), being nurturing.

Well if I'm looking for an adult male to be with, what I did not know, only figured out in last several years after divorcing... . an adult male does not need fixing, rescuing, my caregiving, my nurturing.  An adult male is a complete enough package if he is mentally stable and healthy.

So MY needs set me up for needy, whiny, petulant, narcissist (read my father right here), cold, indifferent, shut-down mama's boys. Ironically... . every man I've been with LACKED a mama, either by dysfunction or death.

No adult mature male is looking for another mama.

But there I was with my adoring, pedestal-placing adulation.

Where my silent father had always been for me when I was younger as I felt sorry for him even though his children were living in a hell with her that HE could escape, that HE allowed.

uBPDs are going to pursue what helps them survive. What they know and need is someone who plays into their very sad broken cycles of rage/need/rage/need/rage push away need pull in.

Push pull.

And we as damaged patterned programmed folks, with our childhoods of pain, are right there saying, "Here, here is the tug of war ropes you can yank me around with."

No healthy adult person wants to be yanked back and forth and no healthy adult person offers up the handles and chains.

But there I was and here I am. I live alone. I am going to have to like it that way as I know I will simply follow, revelations or not, my patterns all over again. At 51, who needs that.

At 51 I might need someone to go check out a movie or have a glass of wine or cuppa coffee after to chat... . but every. single. man in my life has been the perfect opposite of what any self-esteeming woman would ever EVER allow.

Attracted? No, I would say they are programmed to seek and impact those of us who are just as programmed to seek and allow.

That is how I've learned to look at it. And what that does is let me out of the perpetual question I would be screaming at myself all these years - "What the f'in hell is wrong with you, girl?"

Now I know. Now I can be as careful as possible.

Chaos vs. Calm.

It's within my power to obtain the latter by studying only person I can change - ME. Change by choices. Change by being brave enough to be alone rather than "having" to be with a man.

Thanks for listening.

[growing_wings]

As the oldest child of a uBPD mother, the answer to your question, for me, lies in what was *I* looking for as a young woman?

Love. Acceptance. Friendship with a man. All noble things... .

How did I go about finding that? jumping into any immediate return of my needs as her daughter - which were being a rescuer, being a fixer, being a caregiver (emotionally I am talking about those roles), being nurturing.

Well if I'm looking for an adult male to be with, what I did not know, only figured out in last several years after divorcing... . an adult male does not need fixing, rescuing, my caregiving, my nurturing.  An adult male is a complete enough package if he is mentally stable and healthy.

So MY needs set me up for needy, whiny, petulant, narcissist (read my father right here), cold, indifferent, shut-down mama's boys. Ironically... . every man I've been with LACKED a mama, either by dysfunction or death.

No adult mature male is looking for another mama.

But there I was with my adoring, pedestal-placing adulation.

Where my silent father had always been for me when I was younger as I felt sorry for him even though his children were living in a hell with her that HE could escape, that HE allowed.

uBPDs are going to pursue what helps them survive. What they know and need is someone who plays into their very sad broken cycles of rage/need/rage/need/rage push away need pull in.

Push pull.

And we as damaged patterned programmed folks, with our childhoods of pain, are right there saying, "Here, here is the tug of war ropes you can yank me around with."

No healthy adult person wants to be yanked back and forth and no healthy adult person offers up the handles and chains.

But there I was and here I am. I live alone. I am going to have to like it that way as I know I will simply follow, revelations or not, my patterns all over again. At 51, who needs that.

At 51 I might need someone to go check out a movie or have a glass of wine or cuppa coffee after to chat... . but every. single. man in my life has been the perfect opposite of what any self-esteeming woman would ever EVER allow.

Attracted? No, I would say they are programmed to seek and impact those of us who are just as programmed to seek and allow.

That is how I've learned to look at it. And what that does is let me out of the perpetual question I would be screaming at myself all these years - "What the f'in hell is wrong with you, girl?"

Now I know. Now I can be as careful as possible.

Chaos vs. Calm.

It's within my power to obtain the latter by studying only person I can change - ME. Change by choices. Change by being brave enough to be alone rather than "having" to be with a man.

Thanks for listening.

great post Honeychurch. thanks

[lucyhoneychurch]

Churchill or someone said if we don't study history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Nons, folks like us who so want to make a difference and help... . we are doomed to repeat so many hurtful times if we do not dissect OURSELVES and really subject ourselves to the microscope.

For years my indignation and shock over being treated like my mother did me and these men in my life - you have to get over yourself to study yourself.

A willing target for abuse is just that... . willing... . blind maybe but I swear we can see again.   

That's where the hard work comes in.

Honesty with ourselves even about the abusive parents and how long (once adults, not talking about poor little kids) we keep up our role.

So I am just now catching up with myself, so to speak.

Freedom lies in where we go from here, not just today and its nightmare aspects. That is what I so want to tell either younger folks or someone who's way back in the middle of the battle where I know I've been so many times.

[Arctic Monkey]

I'd be willing to put money on it that nearly everyone on this site thinks they have BPD or npd traits. And they probably do, but not so many or in such intensity that a diagnosis of personality disorder is indicated.

On thing I do know is that I went through a couple of years in my relationship where I was very unwell emotionally. My ex was so unpredictable that I literally didn't know which way was up and it eventually took its toll on my own mental health. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been sent a bit crazy by the actions of their BPD partner. A bad patch or a couple of traits doesn't equal a diagnosis though.

I think pwBPD are more likely to home in on people that are naturally kind, easygoing, patient and sensitive with strong emotional intelligence. Not necessarily damaged. Well not when they first meet the pwBPD anyhow!

[Pinoypride18]

I think pwBPD are more likely to home in on people that are naturally kind, easygoing, patient and sensitive with strong emotional intelligence. Not necessarily damaged. Well not when they first meet the pwBPD anyhow!

Arctic Monkey i like what you said. Im not saying im the kindest person but i like to think i lean more towards it, i am very easygoing, and my emotional intelligence i empathize a lot. She has said i was like her anchor, but that also made her inner child want to run free. But it was all my fault in thinking i can help or at least have a r/s with her. But i am easily manipulated which she used to her advantage a lot, sex was the deadliest weapon she used.

Oh well now she has a replacement who she can torture.

[musicfan42]

I'd be willing to put money on it that nearly everyone on this site thinks they have BPD or npd traits. And they probably do, but not so many or in such intensity that a diagnosis of personality disorder is indicated.

On thing I do know is that I went through a couple of years in my relationship where I was very unwell emotionally. My ex was so unpredictable that I literally didn't know which way was up and it eventually took its toll on my own mental health. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been sent a bit crazy by the actions of their BPD partner. A bad patch or a couple of traits doesn't equal a diagnosis though.

I know that I don't have NPD or BPD traits.

It's really sad that your ex was so unpredictable however that wasn't your fault. It's very stressful being in a tumultuous relationship.

[Ironmanrises]

Yes. To supply a need.

[Ironmanrises]

I'd be willing to put money on it that nearly everyone on this site thinks they have BPD or npd traits. And they probably do, but not so many or in such intensity that a diagnosis of personality disorder is indicated.

On thing I do know is that I went through a couple of years in my relationship where I was very unwell emotionally. My ex was so unpredictable that I literally didn't know which way was up and it eventually took its toll on my own mental health. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been sent a bit crazy by the actions of their BPD partner. A bad patch or a couple of traits doesn't equal a diagnosis though.

I think pwBPD are more likely to home in on people that are naturally kind, easygoing, patient and sensitive with strong emotional intelligence. Not necessarily damaged. Well not when they first meet the pwBPD anyhow!

That is a fallacy. Most of us members on this site have a sense of self. A thing wholly absent from someone with BPD. The very fact that we are self reflecting and analyzing is the key difference.

[Pearl55]

They attract to anybody can USE and to very NAIVE people too. Smart people don't involve with them and if they get involve, their relationships won't last very long.

[Cimbaruns]

I am not without issues(co dependancy ) so I'd like to think we both served a need so to speak.

I certainly have learned a lot about my self that I have to work on... .

And I'd like to think that I WAS one of the smart ones "that will get away" and that she"ll have no need for me in the future

Wishful thinking I know... .

[Tausk]

The post by the "powerful and almighty' 2010 was a perfect description of me and my ex's interaction.  I continue to read and read and read the post. I'm hoping one day that I will truly understand and incorporated the main points into my psyche.

But I understand now that I was equally attracted to the "damaged" BPD as she was attached to the "damaged" me.

In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.



In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.”  When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it.  The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame.  They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment.  This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split.  If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love."  Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning.  The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner.  All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.  

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame.  Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline.  It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction.  

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode.  They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame.  This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.

Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego.  The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other.  The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.”  The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”

Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects.  (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction.  Guess who has the best chance?  Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos.  

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.)  The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment.   At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood.

The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good.  It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning.  When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole.  

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good.  Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment.  The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone.

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

Now- after reading all of this- You can’t keep going back for more trauma.   The trauma bond must be broken.

After we've let fantasy go- we can turn the focus to healing.  It's good to wonder what our attraction must have been to this person. Whatever clues you have are generally good enough to give you reason that you’ve had experience with this type of personality before- perhaps within your family of origin.

Stop yourself from thinking that you’ve never been treated so poorly before this relationship. When you catch yourself saying you can't believe it. Stop and think. Chances are- you’ve just chosen to repress a few circumstances from childhood that were traumatic. Now the feelings are back on the surface and you’re going to have to address them.

Introspection involves a great pain. Let those feelings come up. Journal your thoughts when you feel anxious. Learn about yourself. We must address the pain from our childhood that has been left unresolved for too long. We cannot escape from pain if we are to have personal growth- and you've got to get this relationship out of the way in order to get at the real hurt.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn’t you- it was what *you wanted others to give to you*   It was <<Understanding.>>

Try to give that to yourself.

[Waifed]

I'd be willing to put money on it that nearly everyone on this site thinks they have BPD or npd traits. And they probably do, but not so many or in such intensity that a diagnosis of personality disorder is indicated.

On thing I do know is that I went through a couple of years in my relationship where I was very unwell emotionally. My ex was so unpredictable that I literally didn't know which way was up and it eventually took its toll on my own mental health. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been sent a bit crazy by the actions of their BPD partner. A bad patch or a couple of traits doesn't equal a diagnosis though.

I think pwBPD are more likely to home in on people that are naturally kind, easygoing, patient and sensitive with strong emotional intelligence. Not necessarily damaged. Well not when they first meet the pwBPD anyhow!

This does apply in my case.  I do have love avoidant/love addict traits that cause fear of abandonment and especially fear of engulfment.  Many codependent people (all people actually) carry some narcissistic traits.  For codependents it is a coping mechanism to build themselves up with a false sense of confidence.  BPD's are attracted to damaged just like most codependents are.  Healthy is boring.  Chaos is a necessity.  Healthy wouldn't want damaged.  My ex specifically told me that she was attracted to my kind, easy going  personality.  I don't think anyone "targets".  I think they, like us have a type of person that they are attracted to.  They are hoping that the next person is going to be the love of their life just as we do.    

We talk about how they will never be in a successful relationship.  What is a successful relationship?  I am 47, was married for 14 years but I am not anymore.  I guess I also qualify as someone who has never been in a successful relationship.  Who am I to cast stones?  I do believe that I have a better chance at having a successful happy relationship than my ex does because I am not afraid to reflect on my self.  I am at the point in my life that it is more important to look at myself and improve on the things I missed out on in life than it is to blame my exBPD.  She is whatever she is and I wish her the best but it is no longer about her.  

[lucyhoneychurch]

After watching my mother operate for 4 decades and now 2 years with this particular gentleman I am missing and hurt about -

What I finally told him, that I needed to hear more than he did actually, was that *I* was "chokeholding" him to keep him. My incessant need to be there the minute he fell apart over perceived or real injuries, to be there nonstop to prove what a valuable friend I was (forget partner, just friend, he has no real friends but there are over 400 people in his phone), I was going to show him that good people are out there and I was one of them.

Each rage and explosion would make me scurry for cover. But guess who would be the first to text? All in the name of telling him I couldn't tolerate it anymore, why do you say one thing [that he loved me] but do something else [rage at and hurt me]? And then almost immediately, But I love you and will be there for you no matter what. Talk about mixed signals!

Now how is that poor man supposed to grasp any of that? I thought I was being reasonable laying out the ways he would make my heart snap in two sometimes in less than a minute.

He is so damaged he is very very good at annihilating any moment to get himself out of my presence. He will say anything, sometimes within a few minutes saying he doesn't even remember saying it if I keep up whiny broken record of wounds - and his face really seems to show he does NOT remember. Anything - anything at all will come out of his mouth, just to make me lose it cry-wise and then he says to hell with this and storms out and self-incrimination is all I am left with - I knew better - I had learned - I taught myself only last week last month that it was going to keep happening.

One thing that helped me was to write the date of the LAST outburst/disaster on my arm or back of my hand, very easy to see, in silver Sharpie. So 1/1/14 means, on 1/4/14, only THREE days ago, he was saying and doing exact same thing - same rage, same accusations that it's you, then same apologies that word for word never change but also never change his attitude or behavior (he can't).

That date was there for ME to see, so just how many times are you going to do this again? to ME not him.

I asked him last time this happened, when he had come around after *I* texted etc and he was being meek mild jokey sweet ol' farmer man like none of it happened, telling me I "just need to ease up."

I asked, In the last 2 yrs, do you think that has happened 2 dozen times?

He said, Hell no, that would mean once a month!

I looked at him... . we both know that our cycle for madness is once a week? even more often? hit or miss at least once a week.

He just shook his head.

Somehow that got in past the fight or flight he was getting ready to do - since I was still saying, "I'm done."

Done. As in charred, deep fried, scorched.

Something you would send back to the chef with just one look much less a taste... .

Flame broiled and the shelf date has come and gone, too.

Emotionally intelligent would never be how I describe myself. Not under my parents'/mother's violent tutelage.

And one more thought that something in last few posts sort of popped in on my head while I was doing some painting - nearly painted myself into my basement, , trying to do the steps... . forgot to leave every other one dry. 

I used to think that when I was letting it all out, venting and ranting, and I did and so had over 40 years of stuff to puke up, like I needed emotional ipecac, I thought that rumination meant I was getting it up and out.

Well, yes. But no.

I was so looking at how this person rended my soul over and over I was neglecting my being a supine victim or target. Flat out, flattened, no legs under me.

Somewhere recently enough, I realized if I'd conditioned my legs (mental ones) or had had the chance to, it would've taken gale force winds to make me prone.

Emotional intelligence, conditioning, I think, is installed by healthy parents, or is learned/mimicked early on by very hardy beings - or folks who are just so damned sick and tired of it all, I have been doing the same thing and expecting a different result (definition of insanity, I read somewhere how true) - it is going to have to be ME.

I am common hub. I am the crux of it. I am the only one who cares enough about me to help me.

I am worth it.

What do I do over and over that might enable these types? how do they remind me of what my mother used to do to me or at me?

What might I do to minimize this person's attempts and my own to destroy our time together and maybe even destroy me so that he can stay safe?

I will gladly say I still have no emotional intelligence of my own. I have some gorgeous loving women friends who I see keeping really healthy boundaries in their lives, and I emulate their choices, their attitude of, Excuse me, I don't think so, no way, sorry. Period. End of anybody abusing them or even trying to.

I copy cat my healthy friends. 

And it works. I almost start to believe  that I deserve a new life where each day is a good thing, not a dreaded awakening.

Damn I run on. Sorry.  Codependency sucks. 

[whatathing]

Very wise words, Waifed... .

I think that they are attracted by people who address their unmet needs, but, since their needs are diverse and not just one type (abandonment fears, engulfment fears, lack of identity, lack of self regulation... . ), I think that the kind, rescuer, easily manipulated type of person satisfies only their need for security and control, while letting other needs unmet. This may give them a frustrating feeling of being somewhat anchored, but otherwise bored.

In the case of my uBPDexgf, I think that she has a very narcissistic trait which makes her long for someone who is capable of guessing what she´s feeling, of having the exact same feelings about things that she has, and she´s a perfection addict in a superficial manner, whereas the important is the image and the "good qualities" of the person, that makes her feel good about herself (low self esteem).

So I understand what you say about them liking troubled people, because, in the same way that BPDs may attract nons for having a kind of spontaneity and joy that we long for, they also long for people who makes them doubt about themselves, who confirm their low self esteem, who are difficult to grab... . but they don´t trust them and they fear attaching to such people, so that´s why they prefer more predictable people - us. There seems to be no one who could possibly address all their needs harmoniously, firstly because their needs are paradoxical.

But apart from that, the point is that this all too self centered, they shouldn´t be looking for someone who addresses their needs, but for someon who they could communicate with, be reciprocal, empathic with, who they could develop a bond with. But that´s not them, because they are not healthy, and the version of love they pursue is a false, superficial, and self centered one.

[lemon flower]

in my opinion we should divide "terms af attraction" in different levels of our being

my ex himself told me that he used to always choose girlfriends who were "stupid and sexy" so that he could be stronger and dominating, 

not very romantic but at least he's honest to his own motivations, though I don't agree with him, I know those girls a little bit, they are not stupid at all, they were just young and naive at that time and I suppose they couldn't handle him so they just shut up for as long as it lasted

as for me, he sais I was the first one who is "clever" and "too good for him", this is ofcourse part of the idealisation phase he's still in, but I do think that I'm another type of woman, I'm much older to begin with and I'm definitely not "stupid but sexy"  ,

on an energetical level, I would say he's attracted to me because I have a "strong" outgoing energy, I seem to always attract "weaker" men who cannot find their way in life and are struggling to "survive" on a very basic level (say: housing, work, money, health,... . ) 

on an emotional level it's the opposite: I am emotionally fragile myself, confused and uncertain, still wounded from a not-so-happy-childhood, and I agree that I tend to relate to people that are "similar" to me, as was mentioned here above several times

I have some kind of fear to relate to a true "adult" man 

there are other levels too (physical, mental, spiritual,... . ) that can be of importance in why we do or don't attract BPD's but I think the energy is the basic because that is why THEY litterally "come" to us, "find" us

and the "emotional" level is why WE let them do it, that's why we respond to them instead of running away as fast as we should 

[lucyhoneychurch]

If I had a dollar, triskina, for every time I got told over last 2 years that he has no idea why I am with him, that I am unlike any other woman he's known, that I am too good for him, that I deserve better - all these words when things are rosy... .

When life plucks his last nerve, I suddenly become someone who "won't leave him alone [for all the times he's told me that's his greatest fear, being alone], won't shut up [for all the times he's told me my biggest problem is not speaking up for myself, not being heard, letting people "walk all over me"],  you're just like [waves his fingers around checking off the other women who have hurt him all his life]... . "

It had to happen often enough that I realized, even just watching his face in the good times, trying to watch it while crying my eyes out during a rage, when he'd go so cold and matter of fact about "I'm outta here" that I realized... . I was looking at my father.  The father who never said anything nice to a silly somewhat dense little girl, who would watch him work on cars nonstop just to be there or get to hand him a tool - now I stand beside John Deere combines and run over to truck or hold a gang of disks (the big harrowing equipment) upright because one broke and farmer has to weld something back together and it's as heavy as I am and I'm teetering around with sharp pizza-sized blades as tall as I am teetering - and he realizes he's put the disks back on out of order and starts the blazing screaming rage and disks are literally FLYING in the air... .

Now my father never cursed. Not ONE word, I could count on one hand the times the old man ever even said the word damn and would instantly apologize mostly out of embarrassment at himself.

This farmer, this man who has so many talents like my father did for breaking the machine down and explaining exactly what was wrong (engines are all about physics and torque and this and that) and then putting it all back together - the calm face the same as my father's.

The blistering filthy language nothing like my father's when equipment fails him - but the face is the same, the indignation, the wrath.

When he reads his paper, a practically religious ritual perhaps only briefly interrupted to tote it to the "reading room" toilet after announcing his departure, just like my father  - watching his face as he reads, watching the very intelligent eyes, watchign watching and eating it up and only months later grasping the pull he has on me.

I am, inside my belly, trying to grab the time and years with my disapproving, critical, harsh father.

This farmer asks me same pushy questions about something I've done in my home or my life, not concerned, pushy, critical, harsh.

Wow, when that solar-flare-type light went off in my head, I understood why it wasn't working... . I understood that I was playing just as erroneous and damaging a part in the blowout scenes as he was.

I do love him and care about him... . but I am pursuing and chasing lost time with a man who never gave a damn about me - this farmer has nothing to do with him yet everything if I kept at it like that.

Just like I had nothing to do with the list of women he will rattle off who have been the evil causes of all his ruin and pain.

My broken, neglected childhood was going to just keep tossing me around if I didn't really really get some serious mental reading glasses on. Improve my internal vision and what was driving me.

I craved this man's presence and company because it echoed so much of the early years trying to get an indifferent, selfish man's attention as a little girl.

That's not right.

That is downright WRONG once I understood.

My old farmer guy didn't ask for a role in my internal issues.

We are cast in roles in a dysfunctional setting like our childhood homes or years. It's only too easy for us to audition other people to fill the roles our family of origin used to occupy.

We seek the same awful dynamics. We just don't know it.

That is my theory about myself and how I ended up getting this so screwed up.

I don't know if it will ring any bells with any of you. I'm grateful I'm making some progress with this because when he goes to Mr Nice Guy Farmer again I might not tumble to it.

In fact promised myself I wouldn't.

Thanks for listening.

[maxen]

I'd be willing to put money on it that nearly everyone on this site thinks they have BPD or npd traits. And they probably do, but not so many or in such intensity that a diagnosis of personality disorder is indicated.

i wouldn't call a trait a 'BPD trait' unless it's part of the set of traits that form a syndrome. i have horrifying abandonment issues, but none of the other traits, so it's not a BPD trait i have. i'm not trying to be semantically clever (and i'm certainly not singling you out either, arctic, in fact i think i'm saying the same thing as you), but i do read on this site many posts which seem to want to 'share the blame' by owning BPD traits. they're not BPD traits until they form a syndrome.

as ironman said, we have a sense of self. my problem was that i had too much of a sense of self, and i assumed a person pf my w's intelligence, accomplishments, and age had a sense of self too. but, i was wrong.

On thing I do know is that I went through a couple of years in my relationship where I was very unwell emotionally. My ex was so unpredictable that I literally didn't know which way was up and it eventually took its toll on my own mental health. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been sent a bit crazy by the actions of their BPD partner.

oh no, you're not. i thought in almost exactly those terms myself: i got into a marriage in part for a sense of social stability, but there was a long stretch when i literally didn't know what was going to happen next, and that made me into an ogre.

[lemon flower]

We are cast in roles in a dysfunctional setting like our childhood homes or years. It's only too easy for us to audition other people to fill the roles our family of origin used to occupy.

We seek the same awful dynamics. We just don't know it.

Yes, I found in my BPD-ex also familiarities with my dad, both in the good (being funny, warm, emotional, whitty, handy,... . ) as the bad (bad tempered, over-critical, alcoholic, raging and arguing,... . ) characteristics.

But I know for sure that my ex is utterly bPD while my dad was "normal", he was indeed a "difficult" man who couldn't control his emotions too well, but he did not have any mental or personality disorder and he loved his kids, family and friends and cared about us.

strangely enough, I'm the only one of his four children, who has a problem with relationships, both my two brothers and my sister have all long term, steady and healthy relationships and kids!

[gary seven]

We are cast in roles in a dysfunctional setting like our childhood homes or years. It's only too easy for us to audition other people to fill the roles our family of origin used to occupy.

We seek the same awful dynamics. We just don't know it.

Yes, I found in my BPD-ex also familiarities with my dad, both in the good (being funny, warm, emotional, whitty, handy,... . ) as the bad (bad tempered, over-critical, alcoholic, raging and arguing,... . ) characteristics.

But I know for sure that my ex is utterly bPD while my dad was "normal", he was indeed a "difficult" man who couldn't control his emotions too well, but he did not have any mental or personality disorder and he loved his kids, family and friends and cared about us.

strangely enough, I'm the only one of his four children, who has a problem with relationships, both my two brothers and my sister have all long term, steady and healthy relationships and kids!

triskina and lucy---

Well that hits pretty close to home.  Both of my brothers are married to their wives in excess of 30 yrs for my older brother and 20 for my little brother.  They do not have the same recollection of the bad childhood that I did; I'm the one who picked wrong twice.  I am gonna have to ponder that a while longer.  Thanks for bringing up the points.