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Author Topic: Strong or weak  (Read 3501 times)
Perfidy
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« on: February 20, 2014, 08:55:16 PM »

Still processing the encounter with the exBPDgf. We haven't been in the same room together since last May. We have had no communication since June or July. She has attempted to contact me a few times but I won't respond. So she approached me in person about ten days ago. She told me that I haunt all of her dreams and she thinks about me every day. She apologized but she didn't say what she was apologizing for.

Ok, now I have thought about her daily since we split but haven't been acting on my obsessive thoughts, rumination. Apparently, from what she said she has been obsessing/ruminating as well. I believe she was acting compulsively because of her obsession. She did not seek permission to approach me in person after we have become virtual strangers for almost a year.

What I wonder is, was I was strong in my resolve to remain detaching by not acknowledging her, or if I was being weak by refusing to engage her when she approached me. In other words, should I have heard her out and responded to her in conversation. I really think its weird, her just approaching me like that.

In reflection of this encounter and possible outcomes, I feel like I did the best thing that I could have for both of us. I actually took it pretty hard splitting up with her. I even feel like I'm doing better with it than she is because of her displayed compulsion to approach me. It's pretty weird.
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 09:09:27 PM »

I think you are a G... . Gangster... . It took allot of balls not to say a word. You did the right thing, I would have done the same thing. Remember every weak moment, every lonely night, every time you thought about what she was doing? What did I do wrong, and what did I do to deserve this... . and ask yourself a question... . did you do the right thing... . I say hell yea... .

Air High Five on that move... .
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 09:14:39 PM »

I feel like I did the best thing that I could have for both of us.

Answered your own question.

Except this is about you now, not her.

If you had done it differently, would it be different now?

If you're not sure, there's always next time. 

She shows up and the FOG returns. It happens.

The strongest and best thing to do is keep detaching.

You already knew that, that's why you've been doing it.

Sorry man. Another bump in the road. Keep going.

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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 09:17:11 PM »

From a BPD perspective, her approaching you, telling you about her dreams, and her apology are all attachment attempts, or attempts to see if an emotional attachment with you is still in place, the push/pull nature of the disorder, you left her life which leaves her feeling abandoned.  And of course it's subconscious, she couldn't articulate it like that.  Mine tried the same thing 8 months after I left her and I was having none of it.

The ultimate test of detachment might be to let her make her attachment attempts to you in person while you see if you can stay emotionally detached and indifferent.  From your reaction you didn't, but instead of labeling it strong or weak, better to just focus on your needs and not hers; what do you need to do for you?  There are plenty of ways to be strong, getting good at staying emotionally detached from someone with a mental illness that you used to be intimate with is one way I suppose, but for me it's too challenging and not worth my time; shrinks have trouble with these people and there is no upside for me, so why go there.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 09:26:50 PM »

Perfidy,

         What's perfect in this world. IMHO... . you did good enough! It certainly could have been worse as in... . "you haunt my dreams too"... . and then we are off to the races all over again. One word lets them in... . no words leave them out in the cold... . guessing. You "OWE" no explanation. Pay back... . it's a bhit!

P.S.  As I think about it you could have responded to the you haunt my dreams with... . "sounds like a nightmare". But who thinks of snappy come back in a moment like that. Yeah... . silence speaks volumes. No need to pick it apart. You da man! Strong and silent!
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winston72
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 09:30:53 PM »

I agree and affirm the post from FromHeeltoHeal.  

I think the question of weak or strong is not aligned with the reasons for your silence.  Among your goals has been to detach from her and your strategy of no contact is crucial to this.  You have executed it well and the results have been positive.  It is a reasonable and appropriate way to treat her.  You acted consistent with your goals and your stately when she approached you.  I think it took commitment and discipline to do that.  In that instance, and without warning, you acted consistent with your values and your boundaries.  Well done.

If you had decided to acknowledge her or engage in any small way, would that be weak or strong?  Again, I don't think that is relevant.

So, that is one analysis of the event... . perhaps more important though is what you are feeling about it now.  Something is working its way within you or making you a bit unsettled... . what is it?

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Tausk
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:33:24 PM »

I finally figured out the best response is the one that helps me to detach.  As opposed to the response that elicits the best response from the Disorder.  In part because the best response to the Disorder changes from moment to moment, dependent upon the Dis-associative State of the Disorder.  Make any sense? Sometime not to me.

I hope that I can have the where with all to handle any situation with ex, with as much mindfulness as you did.  Her approaching you in that manner is a violation of boundaries.  I don't know if I'd crumble in hope that she's cured, or if I'd move to the point of anger and rage as I try to fight the violation.

But basic NC is a safe response because it's consistent and without emotion (at least on the outside).

More importantly, how are you doing today with the trigger.  I'd be a wreck for a while if that happened to me.  The PTSD and the Trauma bond are very strong factors in my recovery to this day.

Glad you're posting and thanks for sharing.

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Perfidy
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 10:22:52 PM »

Winston, that's what I'm trying to determine. I am unsettled and something is working its way in or out of me. I'm not even sure. Maybe just more residual feeling. Maybe still holding hope a little. Maybe just simple curiosity. I don't know. I do know a little more about my self and how the pwBPD was able to expose my core trauma and how we were the perfect match. I know that I felt more love for her than any other human that I've met, albeit misguided love? The love I felt was missing in my life since childhood? The value and love that I should have placed on my self instead. I wish I knew. Every time I speak to my counselor about my core issues now she reminds me that it's all in the past. I really do understand. I'm looking for some kind of wonder fix that isn't there. It's the here and now. Right now it's not eating me up to the point of anxiety or deep depression, and I can consider that growth.

Thank all of you for your replies. I'm not having a huge crises over this but man, I'm sure glad I have a place to go with it. I loved her so damn much.

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Turkish
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 12:40:21 AM »

You did what you needed to do for you. I wouldn't call that weak at all; just the the opposite, in fact: courageous.
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Changingman
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 01:34:42 AM »

You kept it together,

Kept the drama cool

Mindful. Resolve.

Not unkind,

Grown up

Maybe this hurts for good reason

Good luck Perfidy

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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 02:14:00 AM »

Strong can be soft but hard is ultimately fragile. I think you're probably much stronger than you think. You'll be surprised one day when you realize how far you've come from the lowest point you've experienced. An encounter like that with your X just messes with your mind for a while. Stay the course Perfidy.

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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 05:10:06 AM »

What I wonder is, was I was strong in my resolve to remain detaching by not acknowledging her, or if I was being weak by refusing to engage her when she approached me.

In reflection of this encounter and possible outcomes, I feel like I did the best thing that I could have for both of us.

Im not sure if I understand the question you ask properly, so excuse in advance if my response is not matching your question.

You ask if it was strong or weak to not acknowledge her or to get into the conversation with her. I dont know off course, but what I do know is that it depends on the underlying emotion you feel when choosing not to engage.

I tend to feel weak when I base such a decision opon an underlying feeling a fear ( eventough it is completely understandable and smart even). When feelings of fear are involved I tend to regard myself as 'weak".

Are you fearfull of her ability to hurt you again?

I also wonder about why it is that you feel it is the best decision for the both of you, and not the best decision for you as an individual?

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Perfidy
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 01:26:50 PM »

Dog biscuit, I do care about her but I know I can't be anything but conflict to her. As far as having conversation, I've no trust for her. Nothing she says could be truth. Conversation would be only confusing and cause more needless waste of energy. Pointless. Besides, it's all been said. Nothing left to say. I wasn't feeling much fear, more disgust. Repulsion. The only reason I took her into account is because she was there, trying to have some kind of interaction with me, an interaction that I halted immediately by walking away. She hasn't tried again.

I was figuring out if my behavior reflected strength or weakness in my own personal character. I tend to agree with some of the replies here that it doesn't really matter. I really like what heeltoheal said about finding strength by testing it with mentally disordered people, however, I didn't initiate or solicit contact. It just happened out of the blue, prompted by nothing other than her compulsive behavior.

Also what myself mentioned. She shows up and the fog rolls in. That's exactly what happened. That's the reason I'm leaning on you right now. I was having some doubt that I did the right thing for my self. As you know, we attached deeper and stronger than a healthy relationship should. I can't help it. I'm human.
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 02:05:03 PM »

I know, I know, sometimes my thinking is abstract and I tend to want to land on the absolute superlative where this experience is concerned. But I do have a thought when reading this post... .

My life is quite like a garden. I have many plants to tend. There is always something painful about removing that one plant that I have spent so much time and energy on in my tending of the total garden in the hope for it to grow. There comes a time when I have to make space for the healthy plants by removing the one that is not thriving and providing the fruit needed to justify my effort towards its survival. Painful... . yes... . is my total effort in this "pruning" lost?... . no, as I have the full opportunity of garden to tend and protect to harvest. This is how friends and lovers come and go in my life. The ones that bear fruit in response to the effort remain in place, the ones that don't and are just taking up space and energy and are eventually removed as weeds or they naturally just fade way in the shadow of the healthy.

I am a hunter/warrior as well. My bow is my provision, my shield is my protection. Should I not tend and string my bow with love and concern my aim will not be true and my life will become ineffective. Should I neglect my shield as it lays at my feet I shall suffer the arrows of life that are sure to come. There is no shame in being a wounded warrior in that knowledge brought to mind by this lifes experience that there are times when we have to make hard decisions between maintaining what is a valuable and necessary need to us in relation to what it is we simply want or in the the dwelling on what could have been... . in comparison to what is.

As my ol mentor says to me quite often... . "No cryin in the garden... . your tears will never be enough".



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Perfidy
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 03:24:44 PM »

Shadowdancer, thank you for the reply. The allegorical perspective inspires me and I can relate to what you wrote. I don't desire a backward backward glance and didn't appreciate her throwing one in my face. It would be like taking out all of the healthy plants in the garden and nurturing the weeds to dwell on it. I understand the warriors ways as well. Taking up battle is a sacred duty that implies careful thought and not unbridled want of destruction. An effective teacher is a great warrior. The greatest warriors are the greatest teachers and often the greatest leaders. Knowing that my strength can also be weakness helps keep me balanced emotionally.
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 05:08:28 PM »

Taking up battle is a sacred duty that implies careful thought and not unbridled want of destruction. An effective teacher is a great warrior. The greatest warriors are the greatest teachers and often the greatest leaders. Knowing that my strength can also be weakness helps keep me balanced emotionally.

It is here my friend that we find our great paradox. The equilibrium of living in personal spiritual balance in a world of escalating koyaanisqatsi and attendant destruction. Like a man on a tight-rope, vision forward, we step ever so thoughtfully... . else one single mis-step left or right... . the result is the same.
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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 08:58:44 PM »

Perfidy, I think you did what you needed to do. Sometimes we cling to the words when those words can't be trusted. So what would be the point of talking when that is the case?
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Turkish
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 09:14:25 PM »

Shadowdancer, thank you for the reply. The allegorical perspective inspires me and I can relate to what you wrote. I don't desire a backward backward glance and didn't appreciate her throwing one in my face. It would be like taking out all of the healthy plants in the garden and nurturing the weeds to dwell on it. I understand the warriors ways as well. Taking up battle is a sacred duty that implies careful thought and not unbridled want of destruction. An effective teacher is a great warrior. The greatest warriors are the greatest teachers and often the greatest leaders. Knowing that my strength can also be weakness helps keep me balanced emotionally.

Have you ever read Musashi Miyamoto's  The Book Of Five Rings? He is thought to have been the greatest Samurai who ever lived... . by virtue of dying a natural death in old age when most samurai died by about age 23. And he died undefeated in duel, even those against multiple opponents. He quit the fighting and turned warrior philosopher.

I started reading the book when this whole mess started and then left off... . Need to get off my fiction kick as of late (escapism) and get back to it. It was recommended to me by my firearms instructor, himself a protege of Col. Jeff Cooper (whose books are great, too).
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 09:28:56 PM »

"Bend but not break. Bend if you want to bend." (Abraham Lincoln)

No, just kidding. I don't know that he really said that. Just saw the recent movie, where he was getting it from every side. He kept steering towards what was right, not what was easiest. The people who stuck to the old patterns were the ones who were hurt. Because they resisted balance.

The wind's still blowing. There's always weather. You're prepared.
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Perfidy
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 09:45:28 PM »

Learningcurve, the thought of trusting her words is what held me away this long to begin with. Hell, anybody with even a half baked brain wouldn't approach the person they crapped all over with those words. I'm having a big What the heck moment. Trying to understand what's going on with her and kind of putting my self on the back burner again. We're virtually strangers! What gives with this " complex bond" crap? I'm understanding more now and wondering more too. Here we go... . if what she said is true for her, then she's having a tougher time with this crap than I am. I thought I was the only one that had daily thought of the other! Oh, it makes me want to get hold of her and just make a big fool of myself. Geeze, what a mistake that would be. Where would my value fall? My self respect would be ashamed to be seen with me. Ok, she made a mistake, she said she was sorry. She can't quit thinking about me. My wheels are turning.

I told a friend what happened and he said without missing a beat " you should have hit her over the head with a bottle." Almost pissed myself laughing. Geeze.
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ShadowDancer
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 10:45:12 PM »

Perfidy,

         Nuff of the ruinous ruminations. I'm gonna tell ya what I think having, heard "all that"... . including the dream malarkey. This lead off relationship re-introduction statement by her is one of the obvious "hook em" phrases right out of the BPD manipulation playbook.

Hate to throw a wrench into your happy moment of thinking you are so important to her and have left her so swooning in your power that she is writhing for you in her dreams. Fact is she only is fishing, with pretty crappy bait to boot, and if any thinking is going on on her part, it is nothing other than Perfidy may "still" be good door-mat narc supply. Wake up bro... . you aint dreamin... . she is lying!

I swear to all that is real... . Check out Henry Rollins Youtube "Liar"... . that's the truth of the matter. Then after, get back to your own thoughts, your own life, your own dreams.

You aint no sucka fish! Smiling (click to insert in post)

P.S. I even heard "when I was doing him I was thinking of you". Yeah riiiiight.
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Perfidy
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 11:01:02 PM »

I hear you shadowdancer. The whole thing is just plain weird from the git go. My buddy really cracked me up though. She can crawl back to me on her hands and knees through broken glass with a Guinness in her mouth for me. Then and only then will I tell her to fu€k off.
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 11:05:19 PM »

I hear you shadowdancer. The whole thing is just plain weird from the git go. My buddy really cracked me up though. She can crawl back to me on her hands and knees through broken glass with a Guinness in her mouth for me. Then and only then will I tell her to fu€k off.

Problem with that one is... . since she has been gone... . there is just no telling where that mouth has been.

So... . your gonna have to buy your own.
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Perfidy
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 11:11:07 PM »

Can't believe she would think she hasn't blown it with me. Really?
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ShadowDancer
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 11:28:05 PM »

Can't believe she would think she hasn't blown it with me. Really?

[/quote Blown it... . how appropriate... . yeah... . precisely my point... . she blew it all right! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Perfidy
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 11:33:12 PM »

Understandable why people go through countless recycles. Takes two to tango.
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Perfidy
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2014, 12:44:24 AM »

Couple lessons I learned here. Don't sit with my back to the door. Believe not what I hear and half of what I see.
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janey62
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 03:44:57 AM »

The thing is Perfidy that just because she says she is thinking about you all the time and that you haunt her dreams doesn't make it true?

It's much, much more likely that she is on her own at the moment, temporarily of course, and had a fleeting thought that perhaps you would be open to her approach, and if not she'd lost nothing in trying.  I'd bet all of my remaining teeth that she only thought about you the day/hour before deciding to approach you.  The fact, as you so rightly point out, that she shat on you and made your life miserable has escaped her.  She is not to be trusted, her words are designed to get maximum benefit for her and she doesn't care a damn how much you would be hurt.

I used to be what I called 'emotionally immoral' when I was younger.  I had a pretty hitty introduction to relationships and men, and so was prone to loving and leaving and then coming back sometimes and messing with their heads, but there would come a point where I would realise what I was doing and how much I was hurting that person, and as I grew up I became more compassionate and wouldn't dream of re-approaching someone, however lost and lonely I felt... .

Regroup Perfidy... . you are doing so well.  Keep working on detaching.



Janey xx
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2014, 03:49:40 AM »

Ahhhh?  I missed the 2nd page so my twopennyworth has already been said, so eloquently, by Shadowdancer, so, What He Said!

Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2014, 06:13:05 AM »

Perdify,

if what she said were true, she would be all over you trying to win you back in a way that would not be confusing to you. Saying "I missed you" is not a legitimate win-back strategy. It is in fact asking of you to disown your own hurt and do all the work instead of her.

Now, since she is most certainly insincere, the question is - what was the point. Well, we will never know as she will never admit the truth, and even if she does, you will never be able to trust her on it.

So, I'd say that you were very, very strong. It is normal seeing her triggers you, but that too is a part of healing. Next time (if it happens) it will be easier and easier.

Oh, you can be 100% certain that she is crying to everyone who would listen about how insensitive sob you were, but you cannot do anything about it, and honestly it is most probably just a drop in the ocean of other things that she already lied about you. While it is reasonable if this angers you, truth is that most of the slander is already in the past, so who cares.

Hope this helps.
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