I Thought I was OK, I Thought I Was Getting Better...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey folks,

So I'm 6 weeks out of a 6 month r/s with an undiagnosed pwBPD (I know... . child's play compared to some situations on here!).  After discovering BPD, reading a couple books and this website extensively, I intellectually understood what had happened and really thought I was making huge strides in the grieving process.  However, the last 2 days I have taken a turn for the worst, and am really hurting emotionally.  The emotions, the longing for her, the anxiety, and the sadness have all returned in full force.  I was triggered badly, and I'm hurting.

I knew a replacement must exist since she had dumped me, and I even thought I knew who he was.  Even through all that, I thought maybe he was "just some guy"... . perhaps someone she had some brief conversations with. In fact, I bluntly asked her if there was someone else, and she denied it.  

Yesterday, I went on social media (Snapchat) for my own purposes, and noticed her "top friend" (the person who she conversed with the most) was this same guy.  That's when the replacement became a complete reality; she is an active user of the program, and I used to be her "top friend"... . she would send me things 5-6 times a day, up until the day I was dumped out of nowhere.  I haven't heard from her on the program since, and now this guy is getting the pictures that used to be a part of my life... . it was our "thing" not his.  The situation is a microcosm of the end of our r/s, and the beginning of the replacement's r/s.

Raw emotions have now risen to the surface.  The sense of betrayal is overwhelming, and the feeling of abandonment and rejection makes me want to vomit... . I feel physically ill that I have been replaced and thrown away with yesterday's trash.  My emotions are screaming at me that she is a terrible person, a liar and a cheater... . that she is a disgusting unemphatic human being.  I put in my absolute best effort into this r/s, and it wasn't enough... . and it kills me.

The breakup made absolutely no sense.  She broke up with me 3 days after valentines day... . I bought her flowers and gifts, she bought me gifts, made me homemade desserts, we went out to an expensive dinner, we had great sex afterwards, and she fell asleep in my arms for the rest of the night.  There were almost no warning, it was abrupt, confusing, and non negotiable... . it was over.

The most aggravating thing for me was her reason for the relationship ending:  I wasn't taking the r/s seriously. She has been insistent about this during the breakup and the one time we met up afterwards.  Her reality was so much different than mine. I was caring for her when she was sick, reading her favorite books to get to know her better, doing research on her other health issues, using my connections to help her find a new job, meeting her parents, and was starting to plan a vacation and a trip to meet my extended family.  A 30 year old man cried in front of her when she broke up with me... . no one has seen me cry since childhood.  I told her she was the most important person in my life!   And still she says "I was a convenience to you", and that I have "commitment issues"... She also blamed the bad winter weather, that we never did anything, that I was too much of "salesperson" in front of her parents.  All of these excuses were nonsensical, untrue, and completely confusing.  Is this something pwBPD's do?

Once she ended it, she went stone cold on me; a complete lack of any empathy. Like I was just another person... . it was startling.  How could a human being do this so startlingly fast?  The small amount of conversation we had was cold and to the point, she didn't even ignored a long email I wrote her trying to talk things out.  In fact, the only time she initiated conversation with me was to matter of factly request to buy concert tickets I had admitted I purchased for her as a surprise 3 days before we broke up.

For everything she spoke about desiring love, a soul mate, caring, and a wonderful relationship... . she turned into the antithesis of that, and it kills me to see it.

What is the point of this post?  I am not quite sure. I know its selfish, long-winded and revolves around my situation, but I needed a place to release my pain and emotion, and since everyone here can empathize with my situation, I thought this may be the best outlet.

[Lamaiel]

Hey folks,

So I'm 6 weeks out of a 6 month r/s with an undiagnosed pwBPD (I know... . child's play compared to some situations on here!).  After discovering BPD, reading a couple books and this website extensively, I intellectually understood what had happened and really thought I was making huge strides in the grieving process.  However, the last 2 days I have taken a turn for the worst, and am really hurting emotionally.  The emotions, the longing for her, the anxiety, and the sadness have all returned in full force.  I was triggered badly, and I'm hurting.

I knew a replacement must exist since she had dumped me, and I even thought I knew who he was.  Even through all that, I thought maybe he was "just some guy"... . perhaps someone she had some brief conversations with. In fact, I bluntly asked her if there was someone else, and she denied it.  

Yesterday, I went on social media (Snapchat) for my own purposes, and noticed her "top friend" (the person who she conversed with the most) was this same guy.  That's when the replacement became a complete reality; she is an active user of the program, and I used to be her "top friend"... . she would send me things 5-6 times a day, up until the day I was dumped out of nowhere.  I haven't heard from her on the program since, and now this guy is getting the pictures that used to be a part of my life... . it was our "thing" not his.  The situation is a microcosm of the end of our r/s, and the beginning of the replacement's r/s.

Raw emotions have now risen to the surface.  The sense of betrayal is overwhelming, and the feeling of abandonment and rejection makes me want to vomit... . I feel physically ill that I have been replaced and thrown away with yesterday's trash.  My emotions are screaming at me that she is a terrible person, a liar and a cheater... . that she is a disgusting unemphatic human being.  I put in my absolute best effort into this r/s, and it wasn't enough... . and it kills me.

The breakup made absolutely no sense.  She broke up with me 3 days after valentines day... . I bought her flowers and gifts, she bought me gifts, made me homemade desserts, we went out to an expensive dinner, we had great sex afterwards, and she fell asleep in my arms for the rest of the night.  There were almost no warning, it was abrupt, confusing, and non negotiable... . it was over.

The most aggravating thing for me was her reason for the relationship ending:  I wasn't taking the r/s seriously. She has been insistent about this during the breakup and the one time we met up afterwards.  Her reality was so much different than mine. I was caring for her when she was sick, reading her favorite books to get to know her better, doing research on her other health issues, using my connections to help her find a new job, meeting her parents, and was starting to plan a vacation and a trip to meet my extended family.  A 30 year old man cried in front of her when she broke up with me... . no one has seen me cry since childhood.  I told her she was the most important person in my life!   And still she says "I was a convenience to you", and that I have "commitment issues"... She also blamed the bad winter weather, that we never did anything, that I was too much of "salesperson" in front of her parents.  All of these excuses were nonsensical, untrue, and completely confusing.  Is this something pwBPD's do?

Once she ended it, she went stone cold on me; a complete lack of any empathy. Like I was just another person... . it was startling.  How could a human being do this so startlingly fast?  The small amount of conversation we had was cold and to the point, she didn't even ignored a long email I wrote her trying to talk things out.  In fact, the only time she initiated conversation with me was to matter of factly request to buy concert tickets I had admitted I purchased for her as a surprise 3 days before we broke up.

For everything she spoke about desiring love, a soul mate, caring, and a wonderful relationship... . she turned into the antithesis of that, and it kills me to see it.

What is the point of this post?  I am not quite sure. I know its selfish, long-winded and revolves around my situation, but I needed a place to release my pain and emotion, and since everyone here can empathize with my situation, I thought this may be the best outlet.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Lamaiel, It seems like you are trying to find rational reasons for the b/u, whereas those w/BPD often act in irrational fashion.  So you may be seeking something that will prove elusive.  Reading between the lines, I am also under the impression that you want to get back together, but she is unwilling.  It seems like that rejection is the source of your pain.  You may not want to hear this at present, but at some point in the not-so-distant future I predict you will be thankful for getting our of a r/s with a pwBPD.  Take it from those of us who were married to or in long term r/s with a pwBPD.  It only becomes more challenging and stressful as time goes on.  Hang in there, LuckyJim

[willy45]

Hey Dude,

That really sucks. I know how much it hurts. Trust me. But your instincts about what you first wrote... . you are only in a 6 month relationship rings true. Feel the pain and grieve. Do that. But in the back of your mind, know that you dodged a bullet. I was with my for 6 years. 6 YEARS! Same stuff. And for a year and half, she STILL contacts me. Doesn't want to be with me. Just wants to be 'BEST FRIENDS' whatever that means. And it is making me insane. I just got an unknown number call and quick hang up. Was it her? Was it a telemarketer? I have no idea. All I know is that it is making me really mentally unwell.

Grieve. Let her go. And be grateful you got out when you did. You can go off and find a nice girl. You aren't broken. It will take a while to feel better. But, it will come. And she will be a distant memory.

Good luck buddy> We are here for you.

[willy45]

Oh... . And if you need a cautionary tale:

When I finally got out, I was diagnosed with severe PTSD. I had to go for 6 months of therapy, suicidal ideation, dealing with suicide threats from her, was stalked and continue to get harassed for the past 1.5 years (constant contact once every 3 or 4 weeks), massive problems with connecting to other women, and on and on. I have been climbing a mountain to get over this for almost 2 years now. And she STILL contacts me. And every contact is a step back, whether I answer or not. I was PTSD from years of verbal and emotional abuse. I'm pretty sure she cheated on me all the time but don't really have proof. Just a suspicion. She took my money. She took my time. She took my youth. AND SHE STILL WANTS MORE!

So dude. Feel the pain. After a while, you will realize that you dodged a bullet. Seriously. Read some of the stories on here. Nothing is worth what others have gone through. Even for me, despite having to hide from her under the bed during her rages, there are still stories that are WORSE!

Stay away, my friend. Do whatever it takes. This is a blessing. If you believe in anything, thank that thing for watching over you.

[Take2]

Lamaiel... .   I am so able to relate all of what you're going through... . it's so painful... .   and I struggle to deal with the final reasoning also as it makes NO sense.  It just doesn't matter.  What my ex says happened did not happen.  He changed reality of a particular work function to fit his needs.  Your posting here is a very good thing - keep posting. 

I too was waaaay better months ago - and I see mine almost daily at work - and somehow have slid backwards for two months now.

I know I have pretty severe PTSD (4.5 years together, not married though).  Every time I go thru a recycle the break up is soo much worse and the abuse each time gets soo much worse.

You are doing so well... . don't let this set back get to you... . it WILL get better in time... .    

[Mutt]

I'm sorry about the pain your painful break-up and the resent / betrayal that you are feeling by being replaced so quickly. A lot of members, including myself, don't get closure from these relationships. It's best that we give find our own closure.

I'm a 30 year old male, and had NEVER had a serious r/s before my 6 month r/s with my exBPD.  I had nothing to compare/contract the idealization stage against... . I had no experience with an r/s, much less love!

I can see why it would be especially more difficult for you, if this was your first love / heartbreak. I still remember mine.

Things are still pretty raw for you at 6 weeks out. It's OK to vent your anger. You experienced a loss. Have you read the 5 stages of loss and identified what you are feeling? It helped me with my grieving process with understanding / processing what I was feeling.

Us: The Five Stages of Grieving a Relationship Loss

[seeking balance]

What is the point of this post?  I am not quite sure. I know its selfish, long-winded and revolves around my situation, but I needed a place to release my pain and emotion, and since everyone here can empathize with my situation, I thought this may be the best outlet.

It is not selfish to post about your pain and confusion - this is what the boards are here for... .



BPD or not - it hurts when we are more invested in a relationship than the other and we get left seemingly out of the blue.  It also hurts when we realize that we were replaceable - nobody wants to think of themselves as not important.

You are right 6 months is not that long of a relationship comparing to some, but that does not mean your pain is any less real.  It is normal to hurt when a relationship ends and we were not ready - be kind to you as you grieve.

Are you at a point where you would take her back if she comes back or are you done with the relationship?

[charred]

Hey folks,

So I'm 6 weeks out of a 6 month r/s with an undiagnosed pwBPD (I know... . child's play compared to some situations on here!).  After discovering BPD, reading a couple books and this website extensively, I intellectually understood what had happened and really thought I was making huge strides in the grieving process.  However, the last 2 days I have taken a turn for the worst, and am really hurting emotionally.  The emotions, the longing for her, the anxiety, and the sadness have all returned in full force.  I was triggered badly, and I'm hurting.

I knew a replacement must exist since she had dumped me, and I even thought I knew who he was.  Even through all that, I thought maybe he was "just some guy"... . perhaps someone she had some brief conversations with. In fact, I bluntly asked her if there was someone else, and she denied it.  

Yesterday, I went on social media (Snapchat) for my own purposes, and noticed her "top friend" (the person who she conversed with the most) was this same guy.  That's when the replacement became a complete reality; she is an active user of the program, and I used to be her "top friend"... . she would send me things 5-6 times a day, up until the day I was dumped out of nowhere.  I haven't heard from her on the program since, and now this guy is getting the pictures that used to be a part of my life... . it was our "thing" not his.  The situation is a microcosm of the end of our r/s, and the beginning of the replacement's r/s.

Raw emotions have now risen to the surface.  The sense of betrayal is overwhelming, and the feeling of abandonment and rejection makes me want to vomit... . I feel physically ill that I have been replaced and thrown away with yesterday's trash.  My emotions are screaming at me that she is a terrible person, a liar and a cheater... . that she is a disgusting unemphatic human being.  I put in my absolute best effort into this r/s, and it wasn't enough... . and it kills me.

The breakup made absolutely no sense.  She broke up with me 3 days after valentines day... . I bought her flowers and gifts, she bought me gifts, made me homemade desserts, we went out to an expensive dinner, we had great sex afterwards, and she fell asleep in my arms for the rest of the night.  There were almost no warning, it was abrupt, confusing, and non negotiable... . it was over.

The most aggravating thing for me was her reason for the relationship ending:  I wasn't taking the r/s seriously. She has been insistent about this during the breakup and the one time we met up afterwards.  Her reality was so much different than mine. I was caring for her when she was sick, reading her favorite books to get to know her better, doing research on her other health issues, using my connections to help her find a new job, meeting her parents, and was starting to plan a vacation and a trip to meet my extended family.  A 30 year old man cried in front of her when she broke up with me... . no one has seen me cry since childhood.  I told her she was the most important person in my life!   And still she says "I was a convenience to you", and that I have "commitment issues"... She also blamed the bad winter weather, that we never did anything, that I was too much of "salesperson" in front of her parents.  All of these excuses were nonsensical, untrue, and completely confusing.  Is this something pwBPD's do?

Once she ended it, she went stone cold on me; a complete lack of any empathy. Like I was just another person... . it was startling.  How could a human being do this so startlingly fast?  The small amount of conversation we had was cold and to the point, she didn't even ignored a long email I wrote her trying to talk things out.  In fact, the only time she initiated conversation with me was to matter of factly request to buy concert tickets I had admitted I purchased for her as a surprise 3 days before we broke up.

For everything she spoke about desiring love, a soul mate, caring, and a wonderful relationship... . she turned into the antithesis of that, and it kills me to see it.

What is the point of this post?  I am not quite sure. I know its selfish, long-winded and revolves around my situation, but I needed a place to release my pain and emotion, and since everyone here can empathize with my situation, I thought this may be the best outlet.

Reverse everything she told you that you did... . and think about it. It is called projection and it is something that pwBPD do.

Your thinking isn't what hooks you on a pwBPD... it is your past.  The pwBPD is similar to what you have deep down as your ideal partner... and the connection is intense, its like a primary r/s... and all the emotions you held back as a kid get let loose from all the intense drama that is in the r/s... . they pull the scabs off your old wounds. So... when you breakup you think you will be fine, but then the feelings are like you are overcoming the death of a parent, instead of a normal breakup.

I lost about everything I had twice to a pwBPD... first time in my 20's, and got back with her in my late 40's... and it all happened again... . resulted in divorce and loss of a career and job, and all my friends... . and about $250k. I understand it all now... but that doesn't help that much, what helps is mindfulness, being grounded in reality and if you deal with your pwBPD... keep them in the present... the dreaminess of the relationship and the sparks are signs of something about to go bad... not that it is your dream happening.

Good luck, you are on the right site... read all the articles... they help a lot.

[Lamaiel]

Thanks for the replies all... . I will slowly reply to these as I try to multi-task between posting and attempting to be productive at the office.

Reading between the lines, I am also under the impression that you want to get back together, but she is unwilling.  It seems like that rejection is the source of your pain.

LuckyJim - Intellectually, I know I want nothing to do with her long term... . it is not worth the risk.  She appears to be a classic case of BPD with NPD traits: from the child sexual abuse, the cutting, abandonment issues, rages, emotional labilty, etc.  She is not marriage material in her current state, nor could I see her raising my children.  As you mentioned, I know one day I will be grateful the BPD manifested when it did. Interestingly enough, I give myself some credit for triggering the BPD after only a few months... . I believe I attempted to maintain boundaries and have a healthy relationship, until the devaluation stage hit me.

Do I want her back emotionally?  Hell yes I do... . I miss her rubbing my hair, calling me by my pet name, sleeping next to her and holding her. I miss her texting and calling me all the time, I have a large gap in my life now.   But I know she won't take me back, I've been painted black.  

I do believe rejection is a large source of my pain, along with abandonment... . these are things I am very afraid of on a romantic level, and I think a core reason I may have strayed away from relationships in the past.  For the sake of context and not some ego stroke, I am considered a good looking man and do not have issues attracting woman, but the fear of rejection has prevented me from pursing relationships that I would have liked to pursue.

[Mutt]

I do believe rejection is a large source of my pain, along with abandonment... . these are things I am very afraid of on a romantic level, and I think a core reason I may have strayed away from relationships in the past.  For the sake of context and not some ego stroke, I am considered a good looking man and do not have issues attracting woman, but the fear of rejection has prevented me from pursing relationships that I would have liked to pursue.

You sound a lot like me. I'm an attractive person, I didn't have a LTR until I was 28, broke up with her. I met my ex at 31 and married. There was always something that I had feared with relationships, I was scared of being abandoned and I was also scared of rejection as well. I didn't want to let anyone to get close to me, I have a wall, protective armor, a false self.

It sounds like you are aware of it, there's something that's holding you back.

Do I want her back emotionally?  Hell yes I do... . I miss her rubbing my hair, calling me by my pet name, sleeping next to her and holding her. I miss her texting and calling me all the time, I have a large gap in my life now.   But I know she won't take me back, I've been painted black.

I missed my ex too. I missed just having someone else there, someone to talk to. It's tough being lonely. I'm 40 and I decided that I needed to take time off for myself. It's still raw and you have broken up not that long ago. Are you spending time with family and friends, or not ready for that?

[Lamaiel]

That really sucks. I know how much it hurts. Trust me. But your instincts about what you first wrote... . you are only in a 6 month relationship rings true. Feel the pain and grieve. Do that. But in the back of your mind, know that you dodged a bullet. I was with my for 6 years. 6 YEARS!

Willy, I have read most of your posts over the past few weeks, and I obviously empathize with your situation... . I couldn't imagine dealing with this type of pain 6 years into a relationship, much less the 6 months I had to tell with.  I'm thankful, and like you said I dodged the proverbial bullet with her... . I just need to come to that realization internally.

Lamaiel... .   I am so able to relate all of what you're going through... . it's so painful... .   and I struggle to deal with the final reasoning also as it makes NO sense.  It just doesn't matter.  What my ex says happened did not happen.  He changed reality of a particular work function to fit his needs.

Take2, It literally is one of the most frustrating, sad, and confusing situations I have ever dealt with.  I've found no answers, and we all I know I probably won't.  When I told friends/family they were just as confused as I was! I didn't understand it, and no one who I talked to understood it either.  I wasn't taking the r/s seriously?  Don't you think crying in front of you is a good indication I wasn't fooling around?  She asked for specific examples of how the r/s could get more serious, I gave them to her... . still wasn't enough.  I subsequently wrote her a long email explaining my seriousness... . no reply.  I felt like I was speaking with a wall... . nothing got through to her; she was blind.

Why do they do this?  What is the point of these excuses/reasons/projections?  Does it make it easier for them to rationalize their behavior, to devalue me? 

[Lamaiel]

You sound a lot like me. I'm an attractive person, I didn't have a LTR until I was 28, broke up with her. I met my ex at 31 and married. There was always something that I had feared with relationships, I was scared of being abandoned and I was also scared of rejection as well. I didn't want to let anyone to get close to me, I have a wall, protective armor, a false self.

It sounds like you are aware of it, there's something that's holding you back.

Mutt, it's amazing the parallels I draw from your situation.  I really think this fear of rejection is really coming to the surface.  By fear of rejection, I mean specifically romantically... . the idea that someone could get to know me intimately, gain an understanding of who I am as a person, and ultimately reject me.  That's a very scary concept for me (dare I say a bit narcissistic?).  It is also a concept that became my reality 6 weeks ago... . regardless of how funny I was, how well I treated her, how good looking I was, how close I got, or how much distance I gave her, I wasn't good enough.  That scary concept of intimate rejection became my reality, and all these old scars became open wounds.  That she was BPD and illogical makes no difference, I took off my armor and my shield, let her in, and I was still thrown out with the Wednesday trash.

I missed my ex too. I missed just having someone else there, someone to talk to. It's tough being lonely. I'm 40 and I decided that I needed to take time off for myself. It's still raw and you have broken up not that long ago. Are you spending time with family and friends, or not ready for that

I do have a large group of friends who have been pretty supportive through this entire process, including female friends who have given me great objective opinions on my exBPD. This especially helps since I do not have former relationships to drawn on.  I've also been working out 5 days a week, have been eating healthy, and been attempting to meet other women.  The exBPD lives a mile from me and we frequent the same spots, its amazing I haven't run into that trigger yet!

[HappyNihilist]

Lamaiel, I'm so sorry for your pain. Don't ever worry about having a "point" (I rarely do myself). Getting it all out there helps you process and work through.

I'm at heart an incredibly rational person. This was actually an aspect that my exbf HATED. He would always get irritated when I was "cold and logical," as he put it. So you're damn straight that I wanted closure. I felt that I DESERVED it. 2 years of my life, ended by text (on my birthday, no less) -- no discussion, no reason, no attempt to comfort me, nothing. It didn't make sense to me. And we need for things to make sense.

These boards have helped me tremendously. Seeing how others have found closure for themselves -- seeing that I'm not alone in feeling this way. And the support, advice, encouragement, and empathy are a godsend. I hope that you, too, can find what you need.

Why do they do this?  What is the point of these excuses/reasons/projections?  Does it make it easier for them to rationalize their behavior, to devalue me? 

It's their form of survival. They will forever see life as the world versus them.

It's hard for them to see shades of grey (splitting), so they don't want to see bad things in themselves (projection). They put them onto someone else to try to hold on to what little sense of self they have. Plus, when they've decided to move on, it helps them justify and feel "good" about it to shift all of the blame elsewhere. They can not only absolve themselves of wrongdoing, but it also helps them repress and move on. Accepting fault, examining oneself and the r/s, and trying to heal are things that healthy adults do. They are not healthy adults emotionally.

They live in a state of denial and repression, with occasional moments of lucidity. For me, it was those moments of self-awareness that made me doubt my exbf had a PD -- hell, even made me doubt my OWN sanity at times. But when life gets overwhelming, out come the toxic coping mechanisms. Otherwise they might lose themselves completely -- or at least that's their fear.

[Mutt]

That scary concept of intimate rejection became my reality, and all these old scars became open wounds.  That she was BPD and illogical makes no difference, I took off my armor and my shield, let her in, and I was still thrown out with the Wednesday trash.

I was wounded from a failed marriage and r/s, but more importantly, I sensed something else, much deeper at the core, old scars as you said. I had to take off the armor per se, to see what I was protecting.

I do have a large group of friends who have been pretty supportive through this entire process, including female friends who have given me great objective opinions on my exBPD. This especially helps since I do not have former relationships to drawn on.  I've also been working out 5 days a week, have been eating healthy, and been attempting to meet other women.  The exBPD lives a mile from me and we frequent the same spots, its amazing I haven't run into that trigger yet!

I'm happy to hear that you are getting your endorphins with healthy living, going with friends and getting a female's perspective. You are being social and trying to meet new women, that's good stuff Lamaiel 

[HappyNihilist]

By fear of rejection, I mean specifically romantically... . the idea that someone could get to know me intimately, gain an understanding of who I am as a person, and ultimately reject me.  That's a very scary concept for me (dare I say a bit narcissistic?).  It is also a concept that became my reality 6 weeks ago... . regardless of how funny I was, how well I treated her, how good looking I was, how close I got, or how much distance I gave her, I wasn't good enough.  That scary concept of intimate rejection became my reality, and all these old scars became open wounds.  That she was BPD and illogical makes no difference, I took off my armor and my shield, let her in, and I was still thrown out with the Wednesday trash.

This hits so close to home for me.

I remember very clearly crying to my mother, "I gave him everything, I dropped all of my shields, I showed him all my demons and flaws, and he threw it all away. There has to be something fundamentally wrong with who I am." And I am terrified of letting another person that close, because he made me feel inherently unlovable in a lot of ways. I struggle with a lot of self-doubt and even some self-hatred. I know that's not my reality, but that doesn't mean it's easy to accept and work through.

One thing that helps is remembering that their actions are much less to do with you and far more on them and how they perceive reality. Of course we all need to work on ourselves -- but although we're flawed, even broken in some ways, we're not unlovable.

[Sunny Side]

"... . That scary concept of intimate rejection became my reality, and all these old scars became open wounds.  That she was BPD and illogical makes no difference, I took off my armor and my shield, let her in, and I was still thrown out with the Wednesday trash.

Hi Lamiel, I can definitely empathize with that.  Interesting because my ex spent a LOT of time trying to get me to remove that armor (and sword  ) and I was very open and quite comfortable to do so, more out of an attempt to show her it's okay to be vulnerable with someone you love and that in safe hands it's empowering.  But understanding the attachment drive in the borderline gave me better context for those neverending "fact-finding" missions of hers ("Tell everything about you!" that looked, smelled and tasted like bonding but in reality were just emotional junk food.

But what's helping me bring sense to my recovery is not looking at it as being rejected for taking off your armor and being "thrown out with the Wednesday trash" but YOU finally allowing that scared, frightened but worthy child (self) into the open so that he may have a legitimate chance to be healed. 

You sound like a good guy, so don't let the opportunity go to waste! 

[HappyNihilist]

But understanding the attachment drive in the borderline gave me better context for those neverending "fact-finding" missions of hers ("Tell everything about you!" that looked, smelled and tasted like bonding but in reality were just emotional junk food.

Yep. In the beginning, my exbf begged me to just talk about myself constantly. He wanted to learn allllll about me -- my childhood, my motivations, my dreams, my fears, everything. And then one day he didn't care so much about what I had to say. I guess he'd gotten enough of my identity, knew my weaknesses, filled his own black hole of a soul with mine, whatever it was he was looking for.

But what's helping me bring sense to my recovery is not looking at it as being rejected for taking off your armor and being "thrown out with the Wednesday trash" but YOU finally allowing that scared, frightened but worthy child (self) into the open so that he may have a legitimate chance to be healed. 

This is a great way to look at it.

[Sunny Side]

Yep. In the beginning, my exbf begged me to just talk about myself constantly. He wanted to learn allllll about me -- my childhood, my motivations, my dreams, my fears, everything. And then one day he didn't care so much about what I had to say. I guess he'd gotten enough of my identity, knew my weaknesses, filled his own black hole of a soul with mine, whatever it was he was looking for.

Weird, isn't it?

This is a great way to look at it.

I'm dead serious about that part, too, HappyN.  I'll be damned if I don't emerge a better man from this, on all fronts.

[Lamaiel]

Reverse everything she told you that you did... . and think about it. It is called projection and it is something that pwBPD do.

Charred, I'm sorry I couldn't get back with you sooner!  I was aware of projection, but I didn't realize how subtle/manipulating it could be.  I was imagining something more simplistic like "you're wearing a green shirt, even though I'm the one actually wearing it".  To me this is a very scary behavior... . it is so subtle and makes you question your own reality and sanity. In my case, it feels like the entire r/s was defined with a projection post break up.  Her idea that "I wasn't taking the r/s seriously" was ludicrous, to the point I couldn't even argue with it.  How can have a valid discussion with someone so far from removed reality?

Why is this projection or projections in general used?  As a defense mechanism to rationalize painting me black and ending the relationship when logic says otherwise?  Was she the one no longer taking the r/s seriously, because I had been completely devalued?

keep them in the present... the dreaminess of the relationship and the sparks are signs of something about to go bad... not that it is your dream happening

Charred, can you clarify what you mean by this?

[Lamaiel]

BPD or not - it hurts when we are more invested in a relationship than the other and we get left seemingly out of the blue.  It also hurts when we realize that we were replaceable - nobody wants to think of themselves as not important.

SB it's extremely painful, and causes me daily anxiety and sadness.  The idea that I was left at what I thought was the peak of our r/s, that I was left for some random replacement, and that I now mean NOTHING to her is incredible.  I am a complete non entity in her life after everything we have gone through together.  It's like she switched a light switch:  from boyfriend to unfamiliar stranger in the blink of an eye.

Any communication we have is cold, to the point, and emotionless... . it is only initiated by me unless she needs something like concert tickets.  The one time post break up I thought I may be getting through to her, when she actually admitted she pushes everyone away who gets close to her, I wrote her a long email detailing exactly why I am serious and committed... . I got no response.  I'm guessing the cold hard facts sitting there on paper were too much for her to handle.

Are you at a point where you would take her back if she comes back or are you done with the relationship?

With the awareness I now have with BPD, intellectually I would not.  Emotionally?  Very much so!  If she came running up to me, tears in her eyes, begging for me back... . man it would be hard to say no.

What can I do to reconcile these 2 sides of thinking?

[seeking balance]

Any communication we have is cold, to the point, and emotionless... . it is only initiated by me unless she needs something like concert tickets. 

Is this the kind of relationship you want to have with her?  This is likely to be it - so, is it hurting you more to continue communication?

With the awareness I now have with BPD, intellectually I would not.  Emotionally?  Very much so!  If she came running up to me, tears in her eyes, begging for me back... . man it would be hard to say no.

What can I do to reconcile these 2 sides of thinking?

Feelings versus Facts - FACTS ARE FACTS... . FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS

Emotionally - grieve the loss, let go and accept that is over.  Let yourself cry and hurt.

Intellectually - continue to learn the facts (not myths of BPD).  Article 9 - 10 False Beliefs that keep us stuck - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

I literally printed this out and carried it around so I could stay in my wise mind and not act in my emotional state. 

What do you normally do to be disciplined emotionally?

[Lamaiel]

Hi Lamaiel, I can definitely empathize with that.  Interesting because my ex spent a LOT of time trying to get me to remove that armor (and sword) and I was very open and quite comfortable to do so, more out of an attempt to show her it's okay to be vulnerable with someone you love and that in safe hands it's empowering.  But understanding the attachment drive in the borderline gave me better context for those neverending "fact-finding" missions of hers ("Tell everything about you!" that looked, smelled and tasted like bonding but in reality were just emotional junk food.

Sunny, this really sticks with me.  During the first couple of months she had a level of openness that I was almost uncomfortable with... . I was told about all her ex boyfriends (I don't need to know you had sex with your last ex 10 times a day), about her sexual abuse as a child ("You're one of 5 people who know this about me"  Wow ok), her parents denying and invalidating that sexual abuse, about her history with anxiety/depression, and even about her cutting/self harm.

In return, she asked for a level of openness that I wasn't ready for... . in fact she was almost insistent about it, and complained when she perceived I was holding back. She chalked it up to a lack of communication skills.  I gave in because this was my first r/s, and thought it was typical.  I told her about my anxiety/depression history, my history with women... . I let down that armor.  She knew all my vulnerabilities, weaknesses... . everything about me.

Yep. In the beginning, my exbf begged me to just talk about myself constantly. He wanted to learn allllll about me -- my childhood, my motivations, my dreams, my fears, everything. And then one day he didn't care so much about what I had to say. I guess he'd gotten enough of my identity, knew my weaknesses, filled his own black hole of a soul with mine, whatever it was he was looking for

Boom, exactly Happy!  This is a mirror image of what happened to me.  To copy from Article 1 of this site:

"She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her. This is when you start to notice “something”. Your thoughts, feelings and ideas fascinate her, but more so when they focus on her."

She slowly transitioned from wanting to know everything about me, to only wanting to know about my interest in her.  It all revolved around her.

[Sunny Side]

During the first couple of months she had a level of openness that I was almost uncomfortable with... . I was told about all her ex boyfriends (I don't need to know you had sex with your last ex 10 times a day), about her sexual abuse as a child ("You're one of 5 people who know this about me"  Wow ok), her parents denying and invalidating that sexual abuse, about her history with anxiety/depression, and even about her cutting/self harm.

In return, she asked for a level of openness that I wasn't ready for... . in fact she was almost insistent about it, and complained when she perceived I was holding back. She chalked it up to a lack of communication skills.  I gave in because this was my first r/s, and thought it was typical.  I told her about my anxiety/depression history, my history with women... . I let down that armor.  She knew all my vulnerabilities, weaknesses... . everything about me.

Hi Lamaiel (sorry for the misspelling!), that was my experience nearly verbatim.  Early oversharing, lack of respecting appropriate boundaries were a way to accelerate the attachment drive and get the triangle in place.  Then you (the rescuer), she (the victim) and the abusers (the persecutors) can start the game of musical chairs along the vertices of the triangle.

It's interesting how easily I allowed myself to slide into the role of rescuer/hero/therapist listening to all the shocking intimacies that at the time just felt like bonding.  If I haven't suggested it before you may want to read up on trauma bonding as defined and interpreted by Patrick Carnes.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/trauma_bonding.html

"Moreover, experiencing together extreme situations and extreme feelings tends to bond people in a special way. Trauma bonding, a term developed by Patrick Carnes, is the misuse of fear, excitement, sexual feelings, and sexual physiology to entangle another person. Many primary aggressors tend toward extreme behavior and risk taking, and trauma bonding is a factor in their relationships."

She slowly transitioned from wanting to know everything about me, to only wanting to know about my interest in her.  It all revolved around her.

Yes and more yes.  Even her family members who share similar traits would say to her (and she would agree) "No matter what the problem or crisis is you (my ex) always find a way to make it about you!"  The irony is that my uBPDexgf was very conscious of many of her maladaptive behaviors and defenses.   A product of 25 years of on and off therapy probably assisted in this awareness.   With that awareness I believe there was a tremendous sense of shame which aligned with her perceived powerlessness to change her behaviors. 

The result is while we the "nons" feel like we're growing and sharing with our partner the truth is we're actually being partitioned and assaulted which ultimately sends us drifting headlong into the fog.

[Lamaiel]

Feelings versus Facts - FACTS ARE FACTS... . FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS

Emotionally - grieve the loss, let go and accept that is over.  Let yourself cry and hurt.

Intellectually - continue to learn the facts (not myths of BPD).  Article 9 - 10 False Beliefs that keep us stuck - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

I literally printed this out and carried it around so I could stay in my wise mind and not act in my emotional state. 

What do you normally do to be disciplined emotionally?

Thanks SB, I have been mentally screaming to myself FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS.

I FEEL lonely, discarded, rejected, betrayed, I FEEL like I was left by a soulmate, I FEEL like we clicked perfectly, I FEEL like we had an intimate emotional bond... . but the FACTS of the situation are that I was in a relationship with someone who treated me like garbage, frequently put me down, was selfish, ungrateful, cared nothing of my needs, and was straight up strange.  The FACTS are I could have never married or had children with someone who behaves like this, and if I did I would have been in for many difficult years.

I have noticed you have really stressed this Article 9 in other threads on this board, and it is indeed a great resource.  Even more so, I consider the corresponding workshops and discussions on each false belief to be even more valuable.  Thanks for pushing me in the right direction

[seeking balance]

I have noticed you have really stressed this Article 9 in other threads on this board, and it is indeed a great resource.  Even more so, I consider the corresponding workshops and discussions on each false belief to be even more valuable.  Thanks for pushing me in the right direction

The fact you have found the corresponding workshops and discussions speaks volumes about your own recovery - the searching for facts.   

Emotions need to be processed fully - but they don't need to become facts or acted upon as if they are facts... . keep doing your mantra's on this - it helps move us forward.

Peace,

SB

[Lucky Jim]

The result is while we the "nons" feel like we're growing and sharing with our partner the truth is we're actually being partitioned and assaulted which ultimately sends us drifting headlong into the fog.

You put that well, Sunny Side.  Agree about getting swept up in the drama triangle through which my BPDxW sought to entangle me (she succeeded, sad to report).  My Ex, as you suggest, remains self-centered and every crisis has to be about her.  In fact, she will take steps to create a crisis to make it about her, but at least we are divorced and have LC except as to the kids.

LuckyJim

[Sunny Side]

My Ex, as you suggest, remains self-centered and every crisis has to be about her.  In fact, she will take steps to create a crisis to make it about her, but at least we are divorced and have LC except as to the kids.

LuckyJim

My heart goes out to you, LJ.  It must be very difficult to navigate with kids in the picture.  Although my ex's kids were not my own [S10, D11] as I started to become aware of BPD in her I then became conscious of how it manifested in her r/s with her children.  I used to wonder how it would be possible if her and I would have actually lived in the same house and spent "the rest of our lives together" (my GOD!) how the constant "shape-shifting" and reality distortions would impact the kids as they grew closer to young adulthood.  Surely I would have been a complete basket case.  LC and firm boundaries seems about the only way to go.

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks, SS, and sorry to take a detour here, Lamaiel.  Yes, it's extremely difficult to navigate with kids (S14 and S15).  The reality distortions and shape shifting, as you surmise, have a huge impact.  I remain compassionate for the boys despite their expressions of anger and hostility towards me, stemming largely from my Ex painting me black, which is hard to counter-act.  Nevertheless, I try to be patient and take a long view.  LJ