Taking the next step: marriage

[Washisheart]

I can't talk about this to anyone else.

We have been engaged for about 1 1/2 years. Together 5 1/2 minus the heart wrenching breaks. The first 2 years were great & since we've been engaged are "ok". He still hits his cycles where is steer clear oh him (I still swear by the full moons ). But basically I know how to deal with him, I no longer walk on eggshells in my own home (and have not since I finally realized what is wrong with him). Once in a while he lets one of those nasty insults slip, then realizes he's an ------- and calms down.

We set a date. I'm numb. I'm so afraid he's going to haul --- again I'm afraid to get excited. Now, nothing recently even indicates it's a cause for current concern. But we know the disease. I'm also afraid that after a few years I won't be young & fun enough for him. He's sterile & can't have kids. So yet another concern is he's going to decide he'd rather a carefree life than to be tied down with my daughter and I.

I'm afraid to announce it incase it falls apart. I don't even want to look at dresses until the time gets closer... . just in case.

I love him, but I know what he's capable of. He says he doesn't want that life anymore. But that could change by the weekend... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tired-of-it-all]

Dear Was,

I had a horrible dating experience with my BPD.  I thought when we married she would be happy.  She only got worse and then I was legally bound to her.  I then thought if we had a child she would be better.  That tied me to her for life and put another person at risk.  Then we had more children.  Now it is way, way worse.  Why do we think these people will be different after we give up more of ourselves?

I know this is the last thing that you want to hear; however, the best thing that can happen to you is if he leaves.  No wait, the best thing is if you leave.  The second best is if he leaves.  You are tying yourself to hell.  It will only get worse and worse.

Why do we love these people.  They make our lives hell and we keep coming back for more.

I am so sorry and I hope I have not offended you.  I do, however, care and hate to see you make yourself more miserable.  You deserve a better life and there is one out there.

[MissyM]

Tired, I agree with you if the BPD is not in treatment and working on themselves.  There is a big difference in dealing with someone that wants to make changes in their life and those that don't.  When they are focused on others being the cause of their problems, BPDs are insanely difficult to deal with.

[ziniztar]

Hey tired-of-it-all,

I know this is the last thing that you want to hear; however, the best thing that can happen to you is if he leaves.  No wait, the best thing is if you leave.  The second best is if he leaves.  You are tying yourself to hell.  It will only get worse and worse.

Why do we love these people.  They make our lives hell and we keep coming back for more.

I am so sorry and I hope I have not offended you.

I'm really really sorry you feel this way. However, I don't think that thinking 'they make out lives hell' is really helping either yourself or the people here writing at the Staying board. I hear you when you list the decisions you've made and how they've all turned out wrong. Which options do you have right now? There are always options. Sometimes you have to chose between two wrongs, but you always have a choice.

Washisheart, I agree with MissyM that treatment is crucial. If my dBPDbf did not actively seek it I would walk away. It's a dealbreaker for me. Marriage is a big step, what if you have kids and share a parenting responsibility? What happens when his mom/dad - or you die? It's important to realize that untreated BPD is unstable and that your current status-quo can and will change. Especially if you feel so insecure, I'd wait.

He recognizes his issues. Would he be willing to get treatment?

Best of luck  

[Love Is Not Enough]

I had a horrible dating experience with my BPD.  I thought when we married she would be happy.  She only got worse and then I was legally bound to her.  I then thought if we had a child she would be better.  That tied me to her for life and put another person at risk.  Then we had more children.  Now it is way, way worse.  Why do we think these people will be different after we give up more of ourselves?

Although I do agree that we should be more encouraging, I think Tired makes a good point here. I think the key is to set proper boundaries so that we do not give up ourselves. I think Tired has just been through a lot and is having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to enter into marriage with a pwBPD. Sometimes we make poor choices hoping the situation will improve. I'm sure we have all done that. I know that I have.

I know that I will not marry my gf. I have many of the same concerns and I currently do not see how I can ever trust her again. This or me not agreeing to have a biological child with her could cause me to be replaced at some point. I am ok with that because I know I would be ok without the rs. I also want her to do what she feels is best for her. So I do my best everyday while maintaining my boundaries.

Upsetting the status quo could have consequences. All of your concerns are valid Wasisheart. Any of those things could happen, but you have to confident enough in yourself to be ok if they do. So it comes down to doing what's best for you. Just curious. What is your main motivation for marriage?

[tired-of-it-all]

Thanks LoveIs,

Everyone should consider this:  If you are considering a contractor, and you have trouble before he starts the work, he will be a nightmare after he starts.  If you are entering into a business deal, and you have trouble before the enterprise starts, you will have hell once it is too late.  The same applies to marriage.  It applies to marriage with someone who is not BPD.  If your future spouse cheated on other partners, likely they will cheat on you.  If your spouse wouldn't work when paired with another, likely they will not work when paired with you.  If they beat their prior partner, get ready for an ___ whipping.  The point is:  We are not special.  We cannot fix them.  We are not going to cure their ills.  I am the poster child for this situation.

[an0ught]

Hi Washisheart,

congratulation   You've know him for a long time, you have been on the board for over a year and you know what you are doing. There is no guarantee that this works out but then there is never any real assurance that things work out. While you are afraid that his running away keep in mind that pwBPD can form very long lasting attachments and he has known you and your daughter for a long time.

We have been engaged for about 1 1/2 years. Together 5 1/2 minus the heart wrenching breaks. The first 2 years were great & since we've been engaged are "ok". He still hits his cycles where is steer clear oh him (I still swear by the full moons ). But basically I know how to deal with him, I no longer walk on eggshells in my own home (and have not since I finally realized what is wrong with him). Once in a while he lets one of those nasty insults slip, then realizes he's an ------- and calms down.

Sounds you both found a way to communicate and avoid pressure building up.

We set a date. I'm numb. I'm so afraid he's going to haul --- again I'm afraid to get excited. Now, nothing recently even indicates it's a cause for current concern. But we know the disease. I'm also afraid that after a few years I won't be young & fun enough for him. He's sterile & can't have kids. So yet another concern is he's going to decide he'd rather a carefree life than to be tied down with my daughter and I.

I'm afraid to announce it incase it falls apart. I don't even want to look at dresses until the time gets closer... . just in case.

I love him, but I know what he's capable of. He says he doesn't want that life anymore. But that could change by the weekend... .

Here are some thoughts:

1) any announcement will increase pressure on both of you. Not doing any announcement will also increase pressure. A good rule of thumb when to announce anything is when you start acting on your thoughts. So you said you set a date... .

2) bottling up all your fears and swallowing them down won't help. They transfer to him and magnify. You got to talk and validate each other... .

3) you are afraid and of course it can fall apart. If that happens it will be a mess and you will need support from the outside in any case so what can you loose? Boundaries are there to protect you and are limits on yourself. Can you think of milestones until the day and what you need on each to feel comfortable?

Wishing you all the best 

[Washisheart]

I understand where Tired is coming from. It's like jumping into the fire.

He has not started therapy. We've discussed it. however, I did something that both mortified him (at first) and hit him hard. After all the research I did, when he came back the last time I did not trust or want him. I told him what he has, what my opinion is of what caused it and then I laid in on hard when I told him down to a T why he does what he does, AND WHAT HE'S THINKING WHEN HE DOES IT. I told him I know he doesn't think about me, doesn't miss me, doesn't care that I'm hurt and doesn't even wonder about how his actions affect us. Basically I told him I knew I was a non factor. I had nothing to lose. So I didn't care how it affected him.

Then oddly enough, considering what I've read about the egocentrism, something miraculous started to happen, he became more aware of his actions and his words. It wasn't an easy process but he made a conscious decision that he didn't want to be that nasty person any more. He used to give me rent money then blow it all and ask for what he gave me back slowly but surely. After I blew up on him about the finances, he started direct depositing his pay checks into my account that he has no access to. He tells me when he needs money. And I surely started buying myself things from him and telling him "look what you got me." I flipped his own script back on him. It was no longer all about him. And his wants. And his needs. I get more progress with him going mute, disappearing in another room and acting like he isn't there when he feels like arguing. When he threatens to go out and leave be home alone because he's mad, BYE!

I stopped feeding into him.

And now that I'm acting like the wedding is a lot of work, why couldn't I be the man? He's planning it. He is researching, calling, and putting the effort into it. He already has his guest list and wedding party picked out.

He's made a lot of progress. And I think I have too. I don't have this fairy tale of bliss and peacefulness, but if someone pretends they have it, they're lying. No one can be with someone day in and day out and avoid altercations. It's not humanly possible.

[dealingwithit]

And marriage can change things fast... . it sure did in my situation, like the honeymoon

I am committed to my husband and staying at this point (20 years). But would I do it again knowing what I know now? NO.

[Stalwart]

I was at a point just about in our relationship where you are. It wasn't going well and I thought that getting married would help 'solidify' our relationship in her mind. She wouldn't be as worried about the future and abandonment and all the insecurities she seemed to have. I didn't know about her illness by definition for another seven years after that.

I can honestly say it made absolutely no difference in our relationship for that time whether we married or not. It seemed to not make any difference to her at all. It was disappointing for me because I suppose I expected more out of it than it resulted in being.

Today she seems to really value that marriage but that was only after huge problems with her having an extended affair and years of problems that led to a complete breakdown on her part. Now and for the past year is she is totally convinced that she did the 'Right thing for her" getting married.

I hope that you have the courage if you think this is the right move to go forward with it, you won't know until time passes by if it was the right or wrong thing to do but there are never guarantees in any relationship. I just hope, like I did that you don't have huge expectations that this will actually change a lot too quickly going forward. I hope it does for you but I'd advice that you stay guarded on that and hope you find in the long run it was a really good decision for both of you.

[SweetCharlotte]

I married my uBPDh after ten months of LD dating, and I was just starting to get a whiff of his emotional instability around that time. He had proposed after just three months and seemed very eager, despite my having two kids from before and his non-parental status. I was enamored of his bravery in stepping up to bat with them in addition to his whirlwind-romance approach to me. Once we had set the date, however, he began to crumble under the pressure.

I would recommend a small wedding if you are anticipating problems. Start with immediate family for the ceremony and then add a few close friends for the reception. At first I was planning a medium-sized wedding with family, friends and some professional associates. He had a only a few people to invite because he is estranged by his choice from his FOO, and the event was to take place in my city, so he wound up with only two guests. It was very lopsided and obviously I had a lot more to lose, so he started to disregulate and I had to cancel, which was very humiliating. We wound up going ahead on the original planned date, but minimized as described above, and he was more comfortable with that.

The first two years of our marriage were filled with power struggles and turbulence. Having tied the knot so early may explain some of these. We were and we weren't ready for this level of commitment. Things have calmed down considerably, especially since I identified his BPD after two years and started to address it from my end.

Good luck and best wishes!