Is it true? Can they suddenly just act normal without therapy?

[Depression = 72% of members]

 

I'm not sure if this is quite the right section, if not please move the topic accordingly.

If you want to read my story/experiences you can view them here -

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=225448.0

TLDR version:

Myself and my ex are nons. We broke up in 2013, during the aftermath of break up a mutual female friend of ours with BPD got into our business. She used and manipulated me to gain information about my ex and played the faux role of go between ('oh I'll ask him and see if you guys can't sort this whole thing out' in order to begin dating my ex. She then quickly painted me black, telling everyone I was crazy, gaslit me, continued to lie to me, insult me and even sent me death threats. Despite my ex having known her longer than I, he is clearly unaware of how messed up she is. I'm very confident she does not love him and is using him as an excuse to continue being close and stalking her ex husband (who is also a mutual friend). I cut off all contact around Halloween, my ex and her have now been together nearly 9 months which worries me greatly.


Not too long ago I was chatting with a mutual friend of myself and my ex (fortunately some do still talk to me) and she was saying that the BPD girl has actually been acting really normal (and she's well known throughout our friends as a real $h*t stirrer and drama queen). Apparently she's on new tablets and has given up drinking (but I am sure no therapy as she used to tell me she was frightened of it, she said it upsets her so she won't do it). Can this be true? I was thinking 9 months seems waaaaay too long to keep up the waif/nicey-nicey act, and surely tablets alone would not clear her BPD up. Of course this mutual friend would not see behind the scenes but my ex struggled when I had depression so I feel the first sign of BPD rage/splitting/lying he'd be straight out of there.

Can tablets really improve a Borderline that much? Can the guise of normality be kept up as long as 9 months?

And if behind close doors she is raging and violent can the FOG really be that strong that my ex, a man I considered very independent and not one to suffer this kind of treatment gladly, be completely in denial about it? 

[Springle]

 

I'm not sure if this is quite the right section, if not please move the topic accordingly.

If you want to read my story/experiences you can view them here -

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=225448.0

TLDR version:

Myself and my ex are nons. We broke up in 2013, during the aftermath of break up a mutual female friend of ours with BPD got into our business. She used and manipulated me to gain information about my ex and played the faux role of go between ('oh I'll ask him and see if you guys can't sort this whole thing out' in order to begin dating my ex. She then quickly painted me black, telling everyone I was crazy, gaslit me, continued to lie to me, insult me and even sent me death threats. Despite my ex having known her longer than I, he is clearly unaware of how messed up she is. I'm very confident she does not love him and is using him as an excuse to continue being close and stalking her ex husband (who is also a mutual friend). I cut off all contact around Halloween, my ex and her have now been together nearly 9 months which worries me greatly.


Not too long ago I was chatting with a mutual friend of myself and my ex (fortunately some do still talk to me) and she was saying that the BPD girl has actually been acting really normal (and she's well known throughout our friends as a real $h*t stirrer and drama queen). Apparently she's on new tablets and has given up drinking (but I am sure no therapy as she used to tell me she was frightened of it, she said it upsets her so she won't do it). Can this be true? I was thinking 9 months seems waaaaay too long to keep up the waif/nicey-nicey act, and surely tablets alone would not clear her BPD up. Of course this mutual friend would not see behind the scenes but my ex struggled when I had depression so I feel the first sign of BPD rage/splitting/lying he'd be straight out of there.

Can tablets really improve a Borderline that much? Can the guise of normality be kept up as long as 9 months?

And if behind close doors she is raging and violent can the FOG really be that strong that my ex, a man I considered very independent and not one to suffer this kind of treatment gladly, be completely in denial about it? 

[corraline]

I would imagine there may be a whole lot of factors contributing to an appearance of normal. They may be more regulated on meds and less drinking,better coping skills,  not as triggered for different reasons, or you or others may not have all of the information to determine if this person is really doing all that much better. But I am not an expert on BPD, maybe someone else here may have more insight.  It sounds like you are concerned for your ex too. I understand that.

As hard as it is, I would do my best to bring your focus back onto you.  I know that sounds kinda hard and you want to figure it out as all of it is confusing and hurts but worrying about her condition and if she's really better or not gets in the way of your well being.

[cosmonaut]

BPD is believed to be a lifelong disorder.  That said, there is some evidence that BPD can attenuate over time - that as a pwBPD matures their disorder can lessen.  There was recently a thread about a study that concluded this that you might be interested in reading.  On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of clinical observations as well as stories on this forum of pwBPD that never see an improvement in their disorder.  I don't know that anyone knows the definitive answer yet given how much is not known about BPD.  We must also acknowledge that BPD is a spectrum disorder, every person is different, and experiences vary.

[Take2]

I would agree that you just can't know the answer to this for certain without being in their relationship... .   It's possible that she is keeping up a fascade for him, that he hasn't done anything to trigger her yet... .   but it will come if that is the case.  My ex didn't first rage until I'd known him for a year.  It's been almost 5 years since I started to talk to him at work - and his personality changed slowly but surely after that first rage.  It has shown no sign of improvement with age... .   but who knows.  As cosmonaut said, it's a spectrum disorder... .   and every person is different.  But I am sure many of us on these boards can say that when we first met our ex's we were strong, confident people... .   the change in our own behavior took a long time to occur... .   it's not an overnight change.  You never really know what might be going on behind closed doors no matter how great it seems on the outside... .

[Mutt]

Can the guise of normality be kept up as long as 9 months?

It can take months, even years for a borderline to get  triggered. If she's the high functioning invisible type, your mutual friend or anyone that is not in a relationship with this person, will not see it. It's a disorder triggered by intimacy; co-workers, boss, lawyer are not intimate with her, and they likely won't see that she is disordered.

And if behind close doors she is raging and violent can the FOG really be that strong that my ex, a man I considered very independent and not one to suffer this kind of treatment gladly, be completely in denial about it?  huh

From my experience with my uBPDw, it's insidious, it doesn't smack you in the face. I didn't know what FOG was until I came here and I was out of the FOG, and the toxins were coming out. I'm speaking from my experience / perspective of having been with a disordered person, for a long period of time. It slowly eroded my confidence, self esteem, over a long period of time, years.

[SWLSR]

 hug-to put it short they can act normal.  but without therapy it all an act and one day tjey will crack up

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm no expert, but I don't think it can just change like that.  I have experienced how it can *look* like things have changed, even with seemingly well-intended (but ultimately short-term) resolve to change and seek help.  But most things I've read suggest that BPD is extremely difficult to get a handle on (and for many people, primarily because of their refusal to take reponsibility for it, not possible).

What it sounds to me is like you are concerned that this girl is suddenly going to be "normal" for your ex?  Sounds like you are still a bit caught up in your ex?  Don't worry, that girl isn't just going to be "all better" like that.  They can keep up the act for a long time.  But for your own sake, move on for yourself so that you can find some happiness. 

[woodsposse]

 

I, too, am no expert on the disorder, but I can tell you from experience you don't have all the information.  My diagnosed ex-wife to the outside world was as normal as normal is normal.  The mask she wears is a perfect fit in with society and she could fool just about anyone. 

I sat with her in front of a number of doctors and she just seemed as normal as possible.  My stress and frustration level, on the other hand, almost made me look like a person totally out of control.  It was down right bizarre.

When we get home, of course, Oh... . my... . god did the mask come off.  By this time in our r/s I didn't know what to do or who to talk with and my strength and resolve cracked like a broken egg.  I was so in the FOG and trying to do whatever I could to 'save' our marriage I didn't know up from down. 

I got blamed for everything... . and I do mean everything.  It was downright crazy.

When things finally ruptured beyond everything and we split... . even sitting in my house alone not knowing what to do to move forward and trying not to have any contact with her iin her "new life", she still reached back in and went all crazy bizarre on me.  No one else saw it - but I did.  It helped keep me in a reall daze for almost a year and a half after the split.  It wsn't until quite recently that I was able to emotionally sabalize.

She is "settled" in with her new man now - and they just had twins.  I haven't spoken with her since last November... . but we still texted.  But even that finally stopped in February - and the NC really helped me detach finally.  I'm saying this because I don't know what is going on behind her closed doors (and frankly I don't want to know).  But I'm sure... . absolutely positive nothing has changed.

I'm positive she is putting on a great show if for no other reason to keep her new victim on the leash to take care of her and the babies.  If she messes this up now with him, she has the kids to think about.  But the façade she has to put up is probably eating her up inside and it will eventually trigger (and it will be horrible).

And heaven help him if she found another victim who doesn't mind the babies... . oh then all bets are off behind those closed doors.  Trust me... . I've seen it first hand.

But... . it sounds to me, as well, you are still connected to your ex.  Is there something you are hoping to achive from that relationship which keeps you connected even at this level?

[Springle]

Hi everyone.

Thank you for the responses.

I just found it so odd as, like I said, she was a very unsubtle and obvious borderline for years and years with many people (friends and acquaintances) sighting her as acting strangely, irrationally and with hypersensitivity. It seems so weird that she now appears, to quote, 'much more normal' now she is with my ex, and supposedly only from tablets and giving up/cutting down drinking.

What are some things that are likely to trigger a pwBPD? For instances can anyone here give me examples of when their pwBPD rages or switched?

But... . it sounds to me, as well, you are still connected to your ex.  Is there something you are hoping to achive from that relationship which keeps you connected even at this level?

It's complicated.

We broke up more for logistical reasons than because we did not love each other. I still love and care for him a great deal and just want him to be happy; obviously after this girl treated me so badly I am understandably reluctant to think he'll find happiness with her; he deserves much better. In part, I would like to have a 2nd chance with him, as many aspects of my life have changed which means our relationship is now much more possible but in another way I am unsure.

To be honest, I just want to be able to speak to him peacefully and as a friend, after all the disaster she caused in the aftermath of our break out we were both left with very negative emotions towards the whole relationship which was so unfortunate and not how I want to remember it. I still care for him and he is still my friend, I hate not being able to speak to him because of the fear I have that she'll start telling me to kill myself again etc.

[Mutt]

It could be that she is acting more "normal" if she's gone back to her emotional baseline. My ex acted much differently outwardly than she had over the last few years. She is clinically depressed, but once she created a new attachment, she went back to her emotional baseline.

[Springle]

Emotional baseline?

I'm afraid I've not heard that term. Could you explain?

[Mutt]

Emotional baseline?

I'm afraid I've not heard that term. Could you explain?

In the context of my experience with my ex, the last couple of years were really bad. I was a trigger. My anger would mirror back to her in our conflicts. I didn't know what BPD was back then. I was frustrated, and angry, but I was making things worse. So I would engage when she had her borderline rages. The final few months she was disassociating, it was a downward spiral for her, she was not happy and displayed crazy behaviors, for the lack of better terms.

When she left, projected the failed marriage on me and her actions, she went into the arms of the replacement. She went back to her emotional baseline and was happy. She looked better in appearance, took better care of herself, she seemed and looked happy. I wasn't a trigger for her anymore. If she was emotionally dysregulated by whatever stress she was feeling in her new life, those negative attributes were usually sent to me by e-mail bombs. I was a source for soothing her emotions, still unbeknownst to me. She left Feb 2013 and I didn't get to these boards until June 2013, I was still engaging and angry.

Once she gets triggered by the new guy, the pattern repeats. D8 has mentioned (I don't ask, i don't believe in divorce poison or alienating the kids from ex, I ask how their week with mom was) that they argue. I believe in her case, the same pattern will repeat. Replacement will be split black, called a drug addict, alcoholic, emotionally and psychically abusive, just as she told me about all of the other exes, attach to another person and return back to her emotional baseline.

According to Manning, being emotional isn’t a lack of control; it has more to do with “three separate tendencies that cause emotional arousal in different ways.” These are:

•“Emotional Sensitivity.” Loved ones aren’t the only ones confused when someone with BPD has an emotional reaction seemingly out of nowhere. People with BPD may be unaware of the trigger, too. But they still have a strong reaction. “Emotional sensitivity wires people to react to cues and to react to their reactions.” Manning explains that: “To understand emotional sensitivity, think of the person with BPD as being ‘raw.’ His emotional nerve endings are exposed, and so he is acutely affected by anything emotional.”

•“Emotional Reactivity.” A person with BPD not only reacts with extreme emotion (“what would be sadness in most becomes overwhelming despair. What would be anger becomes rage”), but their behavior also is intense and doesn’t fit the situation. They might sleep for days, scream in public or self-harm. Manning points out that emotional reactivity isn’t self-indulgent or manipulative, which is an unfortunate myth attached to BPD. Instead, research has suggested that people with BPD have a higher emotional baseline. If most people’s emotional baseline is 20 on a 0 to 100 scale, then people with BPD are continuously at 80. What can intensify their reactions are the secondary emotions of shame and guilt because they know “their emotions are out of control,” Manning writes. Let’s say your loved one is angry. “On top of the original anger, these secondary emotions feel intolerable, and their fear of all this emotion, ironically, tends to fire off another series of emotions—perhaps anger that is now shifted to you, for ‘not helping’ your loved one or for some unexpressed reason.”

•“Slow Return to Baseline.” People with BPD also have a hard time calming down and stay upset longer than others without the disorder. And there’s interesting evidence to back this up. “In a person with average emotional intensity, an emotion fires in the brain for around 12 seconds. There is evidence that in people with BPD emotions fire for 20 percent longer.”

BPD simply doesn't go away, it's a part of her personality. You're probably seeing a person that has returned to her emotional baseline. As I said, if she's the invisible type and not the low functioning BPD, you're not going to likely see where the true acting out is, behind closed doors. My ex was getting worse from my behaviors.

[Springle]

I see, I think I understand now; thanks for explaining that for me Mutt. 

When you say you became a trigger, how did that happen? Do you know why you suddenly became one or was it a gradual thing?

Were the conflicts what made it so? Or the growing intimacy? Or something other?

[woodsposse]

I see, I think I understand now; thanks for explaining that for me Mutt. 

When you say you became a trigger, how did that happen? Do you know why you suddenly became one or was it a gradual thing?

Were the conflicts what made it so? Or the growing intimacy? Or something other?

It's all part of conditioning and such.  No one suddenly becomes a trigger, per se, and yes the conflict and everything play part of it - but because to someone with BPD emotions are fact, if they are tied up in "negative" emotions with their SO... . then you become the emotional trigger regardless of what you do. It is no longer actions or conflicts, it's just you.

[LuckyNicki]

What it sounds to me is like you are concerned that this girl is suddenly going to be "normal" for your ex?  Sounds like you are still a bit caught up in your ex?  :)on't worry, that girl isn't just going to be "all better" like that.  They can keep up the act for a long time.  But for your own sake, move on for yourself so that you can find some happiness.  

I am still a bit guilty of this as well.  I know my uBPDexgf is now with her ex bf who I know she is relying on for everything now.  I know 110% she will be on her best behavior until a ring goes on that finger.  

I'm just trying to run as far away as possible before it happens .  

Also, I think they are on their best behavior until they sense a perceived abandonment with their current partner.   If they feel this, they will probably charm back ex's (recycle attempt) or open a crack to a new victim in case their current partner decides to leave them.

This is how the new problems with the current partner begins.  If the current non finds out that the BPD partner is now talking to other potentials; here's where the arguments, boundaries, and triggers begin.  The cycle repeats because now there's conflict and more perceived abandonment now occurs.   Which gives the BPDso more "confirmation" to look for other partners... .

Keep in mind, the result of this is a reaction to the behavior of a BPDer.  Ugh.  thinking about it frustrates me!