Am I codependent?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Codependency and Codependent Relationships

A funny thing about codependency is that when you are so focused on the another person, they become focused on themselves, too.  Much of the love and intimacy in a codependent relationship is experienced in the context of one person’s distress and the other’s rescuing or enabling.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Hello everyone,

I am recovering now from breaking up from partner that had BPD. She was the one eventually putting an end to the relationship. I am now in the process of coming back to myself, and a big question that I am facing with is how come in the last several years I find myself in relationships with partners with some personality disorder or another. I have read a bit about codependency, and I am a confused. In a way it looks that I do have some trends of codependency.

Is it so that people with codependency will tend to look for partners with some personality disorder?

[Aum]

Codependency and Codependent Relationships

A funny thing about codependency is that when you are so focused on the another person, they become focused on themselves, too.  Much of the love and intimacy in a codependent relationship is experienced in the context of one person’s distress and the other’s rescuing or enabling.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Hello everyone,

I am recovering now from breaking up from partner that had BPD. She was the one eventually putting an end to the relationship. I am now in the process of coming back to myself, and a big question that I am facing with is how come in the last several years I find myself in relationships with partners with some personality disorder or another. I have read a bit about codependency, and I am a confused. In a way it looks that I do have some trends of codependency.

Is it so that people with codependency will tend to look for partners with some personality disorder?

[Infared]

I can tell you that when I got into therapy and slowly realized that the last three women in my life had personality disorders (I had no clue until this was pointed out to me)... . it was painfully obvious that I had some serious issues that I had to work on. It is a journey. I had to be easy on myself, but brutally honest.i slowly discovered "me" honestly (which is an ongoing process), and then had to continually work at change. I was definitely part of the reason I was getting in relationships with unhealthy people.

[trappedinlove]

I have read a bit about codependency, and I am a confused. In a way it looks that I do have some trends of codependency.

What trends do you see?

Is it so that people with codependency will tend to look for partners with some personality disorder?

Not necessarily disordered but needing help.

I spent considerable time in T to realize and understand my codependency issues.

I know a love to help and I'm good at it.

But the thing is that I've based too much of my identity on helping and being needed.

And when I felt I wasn't needed or my help wasn't wanted and reciprocated I got anxious.  I feel like the rug is pulled under my feet and I it triggers an abandonment fear.

I.e. if my help is not needed or I can't provide help I have no value and the other will abandon me.

My value is based on the ability to give.

Because of that mechanism giving then becomes a need for me and I tended to almost "force" my help or becoming so sensitive about it, it caused emotional pressure to the point it could be perceived as needy and maybe manipulative.

Admittedly, it is engulfing and suffocating.

I was fortunate enough to realize that when I felt engulfed by my mother after my wife passed away.

This triggered my mom who was desperately trying to help me, but while doing so crossed my boundaries in a way I couldn't accept.

Then I realized, I grew up and developed so similar traits - I was shocked

Glad I caught it while still being able to work on myself and change!

TIL

[StarStruck]

Hi Aum,

I asked myself the same question few years ago. I had a string of ex's that were PD & a mother that was PD uBPD.

I had to be brutally honest with myself. This is what the conclusion was... . I had a part to play. I had co dependent tendencies but not co dependent personality disorder (or maybe its on a spectrum). Co dependent traits that can be unlearned and should imagine co dependency disorder could be resolved too.

Making myself aware of BPD/Narc/Anti personality disorders so you understand their perspective and can spot them and having strong boundaries is the way to go.

I learnt that apparently (and please anyone chip in if they think otherwise) that co dependent personality disorder is inverted narcissism (or covert narc) - that there is the element of control; used to control your place in the unit; so you get your emotional needs met.

Also learnt that people with the Co dep disorder find it very difficult if not impossible to have a meaningful relationship with anyone that isn't disordered. Maybe thats the difference regarding how codependent somebody is. With the traits you will stomach them for as long as you have soul spare. With the disorder it feels like it makes sense to you in some way to stick with it; its in some way fulfilling something.

In ref to having relationships with a PD; I've read that in a deep way you are trying to make mends with a PD parent by dating these individuals; in an attempt to undo the original/bad relationship from the past. I started off with BPD but then with NPD thinking NPD looked at lot more together than the BPD. For the love of god.

Keep learning about yourself, non judgementally and kindly, you will get there  

PS Hi trappedinlove, you posted at same time... . thanks for your perspective on this... . really interesting. Easy to see how wanting to help can become habit almost.

[trappedinlove]

PS Hi trappedinlove, you posted at same time... . thanks for your perspective on this... . really interesting. Easy to see how wanting to help can become habit almost.

I wonder if someone with co dep tendencies (or even ability to put others in more need above yourself) could be altered into displaying full codependency disorder temporarily if they find themselves with a PD partner, then they lose themselves to them, if that makes sense?

Hi

I don't know enough about the formal diagnostical definitions... .

What I do know about myself is that I felt safe when I was needed by her and I was invested so much in helping her that I did lose myself to her.

That makes a lot of sense.

The paradox with BPD seems to be that when they become attached to a codep person it triggers their abandonment anxiety as they become horrified to lose this resource.  Also, since the r/s is based on them constantly needing help there might be shame and guilt involved and they don't want to identify themselves as needy indefinitely to sustain the r/s (especially hfBPDs).

Another issue is that sustaining and supporting a partner that depends on them paints the partner as needy and clingy, since without them the partner becomes instable and loses grounds - depression, anxiety, etc. - that triggers them and can cause a split to black.

So complicated... .

[antjs]

i talked to my therapist about this issue. he said i do not have it (i discovered the truth very early only 2 months into the relationship and left). my therapist also added that even people who are married for 10-20 years to a BPD partner does not necessarily have co-dependent issues. they might just be afraid of going through the pain of detachment and they prefer to be in the comfort zone and stick with the familiar pain of craziness. he said that is not healthy either but it is way far from co-dependency.

[StarStruck]

You make complete sense trappedinlove, thank you

[55suns]

Hi Aum:

I just wanted to relate to you that you are not alone.  I have recently (last week and a half) found out that I am codependent, and have been for many years.  Although I had heard the term before, I didn't have a clue what it meant, just that codependent people were needy.  I have since read two books and I am starting on a third.  If your interested, I have found Pia Mellody's "Facing Co dependence" the most helpful so far.

For me what is most deflating is the realization that I have been manipulative and controlling without even knowing it.  This is just the opposite of what I wanted to be.  I wanted to help and make everyone happy.  What's more, I never took appropriate measure of just what dysfunction I brought into the relationship.  I knew I had a role, but never understood that I was 50% of it.  How could this be when I tried to do everything right and she was the one raging, emotionally unstable, demanding etc.?

For me, this diagnosis is a relief and a complete game changer.  While I knew that things from my childhood (and it was nothing serious, just emotional and effectual distance) impacted my adulthood, I never had a clue as to the extant.  In such a short period, I am beginning to close the circle so to speak... . it's an awakening and I'm looking forward to one day being ok with myself.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you, but I wish you the best and I hope you find the answers you want.   

[christoff522]

Hello everyone,

I am recovering now from breaking up from partner that had BPD. She was the one eventually putting an end to the relationship. I am now in the process of coming back to myself, and a big question that I am facing with is how come in the last several years I find myself in relationships with partners with some personality disorder or another. I have read a bit about codependency, and I am a confused. In a way it looks that I do have some trends of codependency.

Is it so that people with codependency will tend to look for partners with some personality disorder?

We all have found ourselves with a history of broken relationships, often with people who have 'issues'. Yes, we are co-dependents. There are two types of people BPD's go with, co-dependents and narcissists. Co-dependents are the enablers, the fixers, and the narcissists are the abusers.

BPDs will abuse the co-dependents, and narcissists will abuse the BPDs. You will tend to find that the BPDs will leave the codependents and go back to the narcissists, and you have a cycle of triangulation. BPDs want to be abused (I know, thats not pc) But it gives them justification for their shame, they feel worthless, so they seek out those who will make them worthless - validating their beliefs and giving them a sense of emotional stability, then after a while the stress, the pressure builds up, so they feel a need to find a 'nice guy', and so they seek out with an almost sixth sense, that person to save them from all their troubles, they then idealize their hero, then find out something about them - see a flaw, and so begins devaluing (abuse) and eventual discard. They will also have a spate of one night stands (which you'll NEVER hear about) and little flings.

Co-dependency, its something that most people here will suffer from. Its WAYYYYYY easier to get over codependency issues than it is to get over BPD. Usually the recovery begins after a relationship with a full on BPD. Discovery is the first step to recovery

[StarStruck]

Hi 55suns - Sorry to hear of what you've been through but to say all the v best on the start of your new journey so to speak. My realisation of my part started about 5 years ago. It does get better, the realisation is the most staggering bit with rapid understanding then gradually gets better and better and yes you will in quick time be what I say/ back to normal. Boundary keeping is something I'm working on currently. SS x

sorry Aum, jumping in on your post... . chatting  

[55suns]

Thanks StarStruck.  This whole experience is staggering... . from learning that my ex is high functioning BPD a few months ago to my codependency a few weeks ago.  I am highly educated but feel emotionally illiterate.   I am glad to have a framework to understand things now and while I wish I had both insights earlier in order to save my family, I can now at least save myself. Thanks to all who contribute here   

[StarStruck]

Yes my feelings exactly 55suns... . staggering, especially if you consider yourself to have a level of intellect (like how the hell didn't I know before (forgive yourself this bit)- you know somethings not right but the extent of the PD thing... . wow... bad wow). For me I was looking into troubled parents, to then in quick succession find out that the very person I was with was NPD, and my mom uBPD high functioning. I was in shock, dis belief really. I think my jaw actually hit the floor when all the pieces fitted together.

I always describe it as a framework, its so helpful to see this and moving forward knowing it can be built on.

Likewise  to all on here too, some great folks

[Tausk]

Codependency is a label that I'm not entirely comfortable with.  And just as BPD, there's a broad spectrum to our behaviors.  Only we as individuals can make the assessment of ourselves.

Having said that the good news is that most of us fit on a good trend line for a scatter plot of behaviors.  This is good, because it lets us know that we can recover with proven methods that have worked for others who are similar to us.  

On this Board I've seen many of us have some unresolved FOO issues, with some self esteem issues that caused us to have a false self to be reflected back to us in a deeply satisfying idealized picture.  I know I was a perfect partner in the interaction. I wanted to be considered good and a rescuer. I lived in a fantasy world through a difficult childhood, and being the all good, all mighty superhero to my damsel in distress was like Heroin to me.  And in the end it was like Heroin in it's addictive destruction.

When the mirror shattered, everything I thought was real was in reality only an image or illusion for the moment. There was nothing of long-term substance to my interaction with my ex.  I thought I was in love.  I thought I loved.  But the item I was focused on was simply a mirror of my false self.  The actual object, my ex, doesn't have enough of a sense of self to develop a long-term substantive relationship.

The question then becomes why was I first so attracted, and just as importantly, why is it so hard to let go of the mirror, even when I know that the mirror is shattered and dirty.

These day, I'm using Jeffrey Young's Schema Therapy as a guide.  He developed the schema-focused approach to deliberately address lifelong, self-defeating patterns called early maladaptive schemas.   It allows me to pin point where my some of my weakness are, reminds me to be mindful of them, and provides techniques for overcoming them.

Ironically, it's also very good therapy for pwBPD as a method of coping and functioning.

How many of us have wondered if we have BPD?  I have often.  And asked my T often.  He just laughs  me. Why do I think this way?   It's because many of the traits of BPD manifest within my defective schemas.  The difference is that I have a sense of self.  In fact, a too defined sense-of-self that I developed and display a false self/ego.  So I use Schema Therapy to look at specifics, such as insufficient self-discipline.   And this has allowed me to slowly release the genuine self, with the vulnerabilities of the inner child.  I've never been this way before.  

It's a good thing.

The key is to remember that there are ways to for us to recover, and that with this knowledge we have the right to have hope and faith that we will recover.

T

[Aum]

Thanks everyone for your responses. There is a broad range of opinions and experiences written down here. What I understood better is that for sure I can find at least some trends that are associated with co-dependency. After all, it could not be by coincidence that I have find myself again and again in the position of the "rescuer" in relationships. I do find myself taking lots of responsibility over my partner's emotions and distresses. Inside relationships I gradually loose boundaries of what are my aspirations and emotional states and what my partner's aspirations and emotional states.

During the last relationship, that was far more intensive than anything I have experienced so far, I started to judge myself through the eyes of my partner. She could shatter my self esteem by comparison to her former lovers, and I felt that I should try to compete with those memories, and when I so the futility of this I became very desperate. At the same time I felt that I can "fix" her, and that by sticking to her I will be able to direct her to a state which will be healthier for her.

At the last phase of the relationship I saw that the dilemma between staying in the relationship or ending became extremely difficult mostly because I felt it is shameful to leave a person in need. It was, and it still is, very hard for my to accept that I can prioritise my well being over her well being. Though I was physically exhausted during the relationship with her, I though that I can cope with such a burden, and that it is a sacrifice that I am willing to do for her. But retrospectively I see how bad my physical situation was. I was totally tired, and my mind was constantly occupied with thinking of how she is and how she is doing.

I am now gradually getting out of this influence. I still feel much love for her, but I know this love is toxic for me and I don't think that I have a formula to neutralise its toxicity. The thing is that I really wish to enter to a healthy relationship, but with my last several relationships I am worried to recreate the same old patterns again and again...

[Ventus2ct]

BPDs will abuse the co-dependents, and narcissists will abuse the BPDs. You will tend to find that the BPDs will leave the codependents and go back to the narcissists, and you have a cycle of triangulation. BPDs want to be abused (I know, thats not pc) But it gives them justification for their shame, they feel worthless, so they seek out those who will make them worthless - validating their beliefs and giving them a sense of emotional stability, then after a while the stress, the pressure builds up, so they feel a need to find a 'nice guy', and so they seek out with an almost sixth sense, that person to save them from all their troubles, they then idealize their hero, then find out something about them - see a flaw, and so begins devaluing (abuse) and eventual discard. They will also have a spate of one night stands (which you'll NEVER hear about) and little flings.

Co-dependency, its something that most people here will suffer from.

So true, this is I feel my ex's cycle, was aware she was in abusive relationships before me, the one night stands and flings I know were there although was never aware of that while we were together but am aware it was common practice while not in a relationship, despite being told otherwise, it's a small town where I live and people talk!

So, question, the pain, anguish and total destruction we feel when a BPD walks out on us, I assume is almost similar to the pain and anguish they would feel whilst with their narcissistic partner.

I must say, this forum is the most amazing place to be, so many things I recognize, so many feelings/thoughts/reasons/explanations that I can relate to, it blows me away.

[enlighten me]

I too have wondered if I had BPD but theres too many no's so I doubt that I do.

As for co-dependency this is a distinct possibility. I do like to help others, I have insecurities, I can be overbearing, I do try to show people the right way something should be done, I have run up debt to please partners. But if I was truly co-dependant would I have broken it off with my uBPDexgf? Was I manipulated into running up debt? I also do get to a point where I say enough enough your asking too much.

I suppose the only way I will really know is to see a therapist.

[Time4me]

I wondered if I was BPD too.  I've been in a marriage to a BPD for 27 years.  Figured I must have it also cause I stayed so long.  I asked multiple therapists this  question and continued to get the same answer.  They said the fact that I am asking if I have BPD means I don't.  I'm just co-dependent.

[Ziggiddy]

Aum - it's a brave and fearful thing to look into your own soul with self honesty and I applaud you for your courage. it takes a level of humility to ask "How am i contributing to the outcomes of my own life?" To observe a pattern and to question your own motives. It's humbling.

I really think the confusion and longing that we feel can be bound up into a sensation that we perceive as 'love.' It has elements of wanting to help, wanting to rescue which are very human and very desirable traits to have.

However when the person looks to you to continually help, to continually be responsible for them then the codependence takes root.

It's when there is no space for "Hey what do I want? When is someone looking out for ME? When am I being rescued?" that it turns into a one sided giving. When someone else's needs/wants constantly take precedence over your own and you don't feel a warning sensor that the problem develops.

You seemed to have noticed that and are asking how to change it.

You have done some research on codependency - have you read any of the articles on fear obligation and guilt? These things help us to understand the root causes of our need to help - the payoffs we get by being invested into rescue modes.

I found this article quite helpful in starting some self analysis: https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

In a way it looks that I do have some trends of codependency.

Is it so that people with codependency will tend to look for partners with some personality disorder?

As far as looking for someone who is disordered, i'm sure none of us does that on purpose! But it happens that the person to whom you might be overpoweringly attracted - friendship OR romantically probably is tapping into a deeper part of your heart BECAUSE they resemble some situation where you felt it was necessary to rescue. And as I said - it's easy to perceive that as love. I know I always have!

You might want to ask yourself about the things you value most - honest answers quite often can flatten you numb. Maybe ask yourself where do you draw the line? How much help is too much help? What can you say to someone who has asked for more than you are comfortable to give? What would their response tell you about their character?

You mention you felt the need to compete with the memories of former exes - do you know where that comes from? Were there situations in your past where you also felt compelled to compete?

I really hope you can find some answers to your questions and feel the peace within that you deserve

Zed

[hergestridge]

I have a 20 year BPD relationship behind me, and I think I had a lot of co-dependent traits for the first ten years. I think it had a lot to do with age and wisdom (I was in my 20s) and necesity (I had to change or we couldn't continue).

However, when I started to change (which meant treating my partner like grownup + getting a proper life of my own) our relationship started to go downhill. But it had to happen I guess.

I think the article (https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships) does the mistake of over-psychologizing a little bit. Fair enough that it describes a phenomena, but I think it goes overboard with the evil motives thing. It does not feel like science.