How do you break the bond?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am writing this topic as someone who was involved with a 21-22 year old girl who is diagnosed with BPD for 9 months total (involved meaning dating with breakups/recycles mixed in).  It has been almost 13 months since the breakup, and over 10 months of NC. I realize there are members here who have been married to their pwBPD for over 20 YEARS, who are now navigating the path of detachment and moving on, and all I can say is that you have strength I do not.

I have made significant progress in the last 13 months in the way of moving on, recovering from the depression, and continuing my life.  I made a post a few days ago in which I took steps to removed my avenues of checking up on my BPDex via Facebook, and in that post I mentioned that in taking those steps, I had discovered that my BPDex had just began a new relationship with a guy here in my town (her old town, she was here while we dated, moved back home an hour away afterwards) that VERY DAY. This is relationship #4 since we split 13 months ago, and there have been more guys sprinkled in there as well. Today at work I asked myself, "Why would you be upset if <BPDex> and her new guy walked in? What is there to say besides, 'better you than me.  I rode that crazy train for 9 months and it nearly killed me, and I am so lucky to be free of it'.  That is the truth after all". And it is the truth.  But there was still a small part of me that was irked by the notion of seeing her with a new guy, not entirely (or maybe even partly) because it wasn't me with her, but because for some reason it would feel like she was winning somehow. I was still here single and she has a new guy (or rather, has had a line of them).  

In an effort to combat this, on the way home from work I started talking out loud to myself, narrating the events that have taken place concerning her since our split.  I recalled how, shortly after our breakup, she texted me, "I love you and I want you back ok".  10 days later she told me, "I am getting a dog with <replacement #1> and we are moving in together".  That never happened.  A month later when we talked, I was told, "I caught <replacement #1> cheating.  I'm leaving town because everything here reminds me of you.  Going to (another town) for cancer treatment and DBT. Oh and I made a great new friend named <replacement 2>.  He has a girlfriend but we are pretty much married except we don't have sex". A week later, when I am in town, she tells some friends of mine that she is now engaged to <Replacement #1>, knowing they will tell me and that it will ruin my night (which it did).  She was not in fact engaged, she just said so because she knew it would get to me.  Come to find out, she starts dating <replacement 2>.  I run into <BPDex's> little brother, ask him how her cancer treatment is going.  "What? Yeah that isn't true. She moved back home. My sister tries to make things better by lying, but she just ends up making it worse. She's got some issues going on up there (motioning to his head)".  So she lied about having cancer. Then <Replacement #3) came in, and she began dancing back and forth in a rotation between replacements 1 2 and 3.  Now she is on <Replacement #4).

I ran through all of that, going through each cataclysmic event, each one of which I thought was the worst thing to happen yet... . and almost all of them never came to light. The question I asked myself at the end was, "When is it going to be enough? You've watched 3 relationships come and go for her, now she is on the 4th, how many times do you need to see her fail to be convinced that it WASN'T YOU?" This led me to the point of this post... . that for all the time and space that my BPDex and I have had, given that I DO NOT love her any longer, I still feel irreparably connected or linked or bonded to her. Even after not having talked for 10 months, having no real interaction, having been talking to and fooling around with other girls, for some reason I still have her narrative and my own connected... . and I write this post looking for any wisdom or thoughts concerning this issue... . because it is an issue.

Thank for reading.

[Octoberfest]

I am writing this topic as someone who was involved with a 21-22 year old girl who is diagnosed with BPD for 9 months total (involved meaning dating with breakups/recycles mixed in).  It has been almost 13 months since the breakup, and over 10 months of NC. I realize there are members here who have been married to their pwBPD for over 20 YEARS, who are now navigating the path of detachment and moving on, and all I can say is that you have strength I do not.

I have made significant progress in the last 13 months in the way of moving on, recovering from the depression, and continuing my life.  I made a post a few days ago in which I took steps to removed my avenues of checking up on my BPDex via Facebook, and in that post I mentioned that in taking those steps, I had discovered that my BPDex had just began a new relationship with a guy here in my town (her old town, she was here while we dated, moved back home an hour away afterwards) that VERY DAY. This is relationship #4 since we split 13 months ago, and there have been more guys sprinkled in there as well. Today at work I asked myself, "Why would you be upset if <BPDex> and her new guy walked in? What is there to say besides, 'better you than me.  I rode that crazy train for 9 months and it nearly killed me, and I am so lucky to be free of it'.  That is the truth after all". And it is the truth.  But there was still a small part of me that was irked by the notion of seeing her with a new guy, not entirely (or maybe even partly) because it wasn't me with her, but because for some reason it would feel like she was winning somehow. I was still here single and she has a new guy (or rather, has had a line of them).  

In an effort to combat this, on the way home from work I started talking out loud to myself, narrating the events that have taken place concerning her since our split.  I recalled how, shortly after our breakup, she texted me, "I love you and I want you back ok".  10 days later she told me, "I am getting a dog with <replacement #1> and we are moving in together".  That never happened.  A month later when we talked, I was told, "I caught <replacement #1> cheating.  I'm leaving town because everything here reminds me of you.  Going to (another town) for cancer treatment and DBT. Oh and I made a great new friend named <replacement 2>.  He has a girlfriend but we are pretty much married except we don't have sex". A week later, when I am in town, she tells some friends of mine that she is now engaged to <Replacement #1>, knowing they will tell me and that it will ruin my night (which it did).  She was not in fact engaged, she just said so because she knew it would get to me.  Come to find out, she starts dating <replacement 2>.  I run into <BPDex's> little brother, ask him how her cancer treatment is going.  "What? Yeah that isn't true. She moved back home. My sister tries to make things better by lying, but she just ends up making it worse. She's got some issues going on up there (motioning to his head)".  So she lied about having cancer. Then <Replacement #3) came in, and she began dancing back and forth in a rotation between replacements 1 2 and 3.  Now she is on <Replacement #4).

I ran through all of that, going through each cataclysmic event, each one of which I thought was the worst thing to happen yet... . and almost all of them never came to light. The question I asked myself at the end was, "When is it going to be enough? You've watched 3 relationships come and go for her, now she is on the 4th, how many times do you need to see her fail to be convinced that it WASN'T YOU?" This led me to the point of this post... . that for all the time and space that my BPDex and I have had, given that I DO NOT love her any longer, I still feel irreparably connected or linked or bonded to her. Even after not having talked for 10 months, having no real interaction, having been talking to and fooling around with other girls, for some reason I still have her narrative and my own connected... . and I write this post looking for any wisdom or thoughts concerning this issue... . because it is an issue.

Thank for reading.

[BacknthSaddle]

I am writing this topic as someone who was involved with a 21-22 year old girl who is diagnosed with BPD for 9 months total (involved meaning dating with breakups/recycles mixed in).  It has been almost 13 months since the breakup, and over 10 months of NC. I realize there are members here who have been married to their pwBPD for over 20 YEARS, who are now navigating the path of detachment and moving on, and all I can say is that you have strength I do not.

I want to start by encouraging you not to be so hard on yourself.  Detachment is an individual process, and any individual's timeline for detachment can't be predicted by how long they were in the relationship or really any other factor.  You are not lacking in strength.  You have been traumatized and emotionally abused and you are still here. 

The question I asked myself at the end was, "When is it going to be enough? You've watched 3 relationships come and go for her, now she is on the 4th, how many times do you need to see her fail to be convinced that it WASN'T YOU?"

This is an excellent illustration of something I think we all have to learn during the process of detachment.  You understand your ex's patterns well now. Hell, you can probably predict with impressive accuracy what she will do in her personal life next.  Her patterns are not about you, they are about her. You happened to get caught up in them.

BUT there is a question that you still have to answer, which is: why did I get caught up in them?  What is it about yourself (indeed, about most if not all of us here) that allows us to get caught up in these people's chaos, and even to embrace it at times?  Why are we willing to subject ourselves to that?  Her relationship choices are not about you; you are right about that.  But yours are about you. 

Which is all by way of saying: breaking the bond requires us to look inward at what caused us to bond to these damaged people in the first place.  Once we start focusing on that, and on repairing it, I think that detachment becomes much easier. 

[woodsposse]

 

Detachment is a process... . not a switch.

I'm one of those who was with their s/o for 20 years.  Prior to us getting married, we split up and got back together a number of times.  So it really shouldn't have been a huge shock that we eventually divorced - but it was.  Each split up and get back together made things more intense... . and each subsequent break up even that much harder.

I'm now going on 6 months of not seeing her, and 3 or 4 months of not talking with her (at all).  Well, something happened with one of our daughters recently where I broke NC... . but the time spent away isn't being used to punish her or myself - but give me the space I needed to really start to heal.

I'm not out of the woods yet - but, I can can see the clearing and it feels good.

Ruminating is our brains way of messing with us when we are down/depressed.  It's natural.  So as it was already said, don't be too hard on yourself.  It's normal.

I would suggest, however, that you make sure to do things to minimize the depression and take care of yourself.  If you drink, limit your intake - alcohol is a depressant, so adding that to the mix just helps keeps you depressed.  Get plenty of natural sunlight (if and when possible).

Try and do things with friends, family, if you go to church - do stuff there.  If you don't believe in a higher power, get with other Atheists and do whatever they do (God bless their souls... . ) (that was a pun.  I was being a punster!)

Bottom line point it - do something to get out of your own way and get out of your own head.  Being here, posting, reading, being around folks who "get it" is great!  But... . get out, volunteer, go to a ball game... . anything to break the norm of just thinking.

Even Atheist believe that the idle mind is the playground for the devil.  So... . don't keep your mind idle and you will get through this.  We are here for you - you are not alone.

[AwakenedOne]

But there was still a small part of me that was irked by the notion of seeing her with a new guy, not entirely (or maybe even partly) because it wasn't me with her, but because for some reason it would feel like she was winning somehow. I was still here single and she has a new guy (or rather, has had a line of them).  

Hi Octoberfest,

You seem a lot stronger and wise than you think you are.

If I saw my ex with someone I would have mixed feeling also, it would be normal. If I saw my ex it would be more a disgusted feeling that she had no use for me even though I gave her my heart and much more.

I don't understand what you mean by "she would win"? I could understand it if you said "he would win her" (the new boyfriend). Maybe that's your key to detaching, understanding what do you mean by this remark about the winning?

Peace,

AO

[woodsposse]

 

I agree.

I know what you mean by "winning" - but, ultimately - this isn't suppose to be a contest to see who can get someone in their life first.  And here is something that will both good and bad news for you at the same time:

The good news is - Her actions have nothing to do with you.

The bad news is - Her actions have nothing to do with you.

It may take a little time for you to take some time and focus on you during this process. But, trust me, when you do spend that time focusing on you -you will be much better and stronger as you come to realize this had/has nothing to do with you.

[Mutt]

But there was still a small part of me that was irked by the notion of seeing her with a new guy, not entirely (or maybe even partly) because it wasn't me with her, but because for some reason it would feel like she was winning somehow. I was still here single and she has a new guy (or rather, has had a line of them).

Maybe that's your key to detaching, understanding what do you mean by this remark about the winning?

I know what you mean by "winning" - but, ultimately - this isn't suppose to be a contest to see who can get someone in their life first.  And here is something that will both good and bad news for you at the same time:

The good news is - Her actions have nothing to do with you.

The bad news is - Her actions have nothing to do with you.

I agree with AO and woodsposse about winning. So there are guys lining up, you know from your experience she is bad news Octoberfest.

[Conundrum]

This led me to the point of this post... . that for all the time and space that my BPDex and I have had, given that I DO NOT love her any longer, I still feel irreparably connected or linked or bonded to her. Even after not having talked for 10 months, having no real interaction, having been talking to and fooling around with other girls, for some reason I still have her narrative and my own connected... . and I write this post looking for any wisdom or thoughts concerning this issue... . because it is an issue.

haunt·ing

adjective: haunting

poignant and evocative; difficult to ignore or forget

Or like--enjoying a Nutty Buddy-ice cream cone, tasting fabulous, until reaching the very tip at the bottom, biting down, for that final complimentary morsel of chocolate, completing the experience, instead a razor blade shard, slices open your tongue.  It's difficult to ignore or forget... . a Nutty Buddy like that... .      

October, when "breaking a bond" forces an artificial construct--it is compartmentalizing. A natural synergism occurs when that "alluring bond" is balanced within the context of living a meaningful life. One accepts the pull, but the impact is not universally disabling. It is discrete.

The curse and blessing of youth (such as yours) is that many of those elements which comprise a meaningful life are still in their infancy--anticipatory. The blessing is that you still have eons to find those elements for yourself.

No single attachment makes life meaningful. They can be important and pleasurable, horrifically painful, loving, and sometimes sadly traumatic--but alone they do not give meaning to life. Balancing any lingering bond that you feel, within the greater context/progression of your life--does not require annihilating said bond. Let it recede like the ending of the seasons, over the course of time--as life progresses. All things change. 

[goldylamont]

Octoberfest, good to hear from you again. It's been a while.

I think i can sum up the core of your question as:

Since I have proof that my ex has mental issues, have watched as she did the same thing to several men (and women), is gaining a rep as a ho and a liar... . then why, why does it still matter to me after this much time if i see her with someone else?

So, I'll think about this for a while. Quick recap, I was in a 4yr r/s and it's been 2 yrs since breakup, 1.5 yr NC. My situation differs from yours in that my ex i feel was a good bit more high functioning than yours--which means that she's able to hide or lie her way out of her behaviors. So only some people are able to see it and she still has plenty of enablers. (your gf seems to be more obvious that she has problems). Also, i never found out about my ex cheating and broke up with her before this... . but i'm not really sure since i couldn't trust anything she said anyway.

In any case i think there's lots of similarities in our experiences. i've read enough of your posts and i feel you're seeking more hard truths and less encouragement. you're already strong enough and have the right perspective and now trying to figure out the last pieces of the puzzle. So i'll try and be as honest as possible.

Find out what is embarrassing you. What are you afraid of? What makes you a little scared about the whole ordeal? At our (later) stages of detachment these are the types of uncomfortable emotions that i am full force running to so I can confront them head on. It's a process but it has worked for me countless times in my development. I would urge you to find out what fears you have regarding relationships and also look at what you are embarrassed about. I'll try and explain more.

After much thought and meditation, here's what I've come up for myself as my main fears and embarrassment. Tell me what you think:

(1) I bet your ex was "hot", right? I can't even remember your posts regarding this but I'm willing to bet that your ex is as good looking physically as she is loony in the mental department. It's how she is able to have so many sexual partners at once--good looking pwBPD have lots of options. It's why one would even consider sticking around after finding out she cheated on them, right?

This is *not* the case for many here. But i think it probably is for many others (including you and i).

My Fears -- that i won't find someone that i am that physically attracted to. i never had a problem finding someone very loving and trustworthy, but i can be picky when falling in love by how attracted i am to her initially.

My Embarrassment -- talking about how important physical attraction to me is is embarrassing. i feel like i will be judged as shallow although i know i'm not.

Ok, so knowing the above (embarrassing as it is  ) I realize i have some things to work on. I have been and currently am reassessing what i find 'beautiful' in a physical sense. I think i need to make some adjustments in this department. and yes i'm saying i need to lower my standards--because the standards are just a figment of imagination anyways. and in actuality i'm not lowering anything, i'm *correcting what needs to be corrected with my perceptions.

Still, i'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I am still looking to find a woman that i feel is completely gorgeous :-) And I don't think this is wrong. But I'm ok questioning my own perceptions regarding this and trying out r/s with women less based on this to see what I come up with. I had a really good r/s for a year with a really beautiful woman... . and found out more about myself in this process. It's all an ongoing process of questioning yourself and whittling away the excess of your convictions (while still keeping them).

(2) My ex... . is kind of a ho? And seeing her run through men and abuse them is odd because it shows me that i wasn't the problem and this is just a pattern for her, but at the same time it's embarrassing to me because i know that she's so loose with her sexuality. in fact she uses it to abuse others.

Realizing i was with someone who uses her sexuality to abuse others is embarrassing for me. I have no guilt though about being with her because this was something completely hidden from me and i feel like our r/s was the longest break she'd taken from acting out like this. in my case it was just how she acted after the breakup rather than during it. but how she was before we met? who knows.

in any case Octoberfest, what i can say is that if anything, right now i don't want to be associated with my ex in the least. i don't want her to be known as Goldylamont's ex or to be seen as {her name}'s ex boyfriend anymore. i don't want to claim her or any of the stink that follows her, you know. she embarrasses me.

YET--on top of this embarrassment is even a bit more fear. and it's the fear i have of losing all fond memories of this person. we had more good times than bad (just my case). hearing all the stuff she's doing now challenges the 'good' image of them you have in your head. and this is a scary thing. i've found i still have some fond memories of our r/s and i'm happy about this... .

Perhaps seeing your ex with another person would still have an effect on you because:

* you know she doesn't meet your character standards and are embarrassed you got fooled for a while

* you question whether you can attract someone else who you are this physically attracted to?

* seeing her do the same thing with plenty of other men devalues anything you saw special in your r/s with her


this became a really long post! but is an example of how i explore my attachments to fears and embarrassment. hope this helps Octoberfest!

[woodsposse]

No single attachment makes life meaningful. They can be important and pleasurable, horrifically painful, loving, and sometimes sadly traumatic--but alone they do not give meaning to life. Balancing any lingering bond that you feel, within the greater context/progression of your life--does not require annihilating said bond. Let it recede like the ending of the seasons, over the course of time--as life progresses. All things change. 

Well said!

[Octoberfest]

Goldy that was a phenomenal post. I really appreciate you taking the time to type all of that out, and what you said has struck a chord.

It didn't feel good when you up and asked me what I am embarrassed about.  It didn't feel good because I AM embarrassed.  You struck it on the head with,

* you know she doesn't meet your character standards and are embarrassed you got fooled for a while

and to a lesser degree

* seeing her do the same thing with plenty of other men devalues anything you saw special in your r/s with her

There is a part of me that is very ashamed to have fallen in love with a girl who has slept around so much.  Worse than that, I am ashamed to have gone back and tried again after finding out about her cheating as many times as I did.  I'd like to think of myself as the kind of guy who would have the self-respect and backbone to have walked away after catching her the first time, but that sure wasn't the case. 

To the second point, hand in hand with that is I have seen how mean and cruel she can be. As mentioned in the OP, she passed word to my friends that she was engaged the one night I was there in town... . But she only told half of the group.  When I texted her, drunk and angry, the reply I got back was "Haha I was wondering what would and wouldn't get back to you".  It was a game to her... . and it crushed me.  While we were dating she went to a concert with her ex in their hometown an hour away ("we were best friends before we dated, we still are!".  In reality, she had never stopped dating him... . for the first 6 months, she was seeing us both).  We were in a fight of sorts because I was uneasy about it, and that night I got a picture of her and him kissing with the caption "6 months to now, I'm so happy!"  10 minutes later when I called and asked What the heck, I got, "You didn't get the other picture? I meant to attach a picture of us, meaning like 6 months ago I was with him and now I'm with you and I'm so happy".  I took it, even though she and her ex appeared to be wearing the same clothes in that picture as in other pictures from that night. I found out after the breakup that she had intentionally sent me that picture, to spite me, to break it off with me, to be with her ex. And in the time between me getting the picture and me calling her, her ex introduced his girlfriend... . and she had to scramble and invent a BS story to explain the picture, because all of a sudden he wasn't there for her to latch onto. 

I remember those two incidents, and I think it has me scared about what, if anything, she might do if I saw her again to spite me.

I have always been very hard on myself. It makes the being ashamed part that much worse. 

I don't really fear that I will never find a more attractive girl than my BPDex.  Since the breakup I met with and fooled around with a SMOKING hot chick.  There wasn't much else going on there, but that was a confidence boost for sure. Deep down I guess I have doubts that I deserve a "good" girl. I am going to school on a full tuition waiver for academics, have a very athletic body, am told I exude confidence, and upon examination of my life I definitely fall into the rescuer role because I really care for people, and for whatever reason when I say to myself, "You didn't deserve what <BPDex> did to you, it is her shortcoming, not yours," I am never fully convinced.  One might say I have major self-confidence issues 

Sorry to ramble, but you post really spoke to me.

Thank you everyone else for your replies.  I don't have time to address them all right now, but I will tomorrow for sure.

[Blimblam]

wow, that sounds awfull!

Its just a game to them a sick twisted game.  They cant stop playing even when they feel some level of guilt for hurting you.

[maternal]

I know this embarrassment all too well.  I am absolutely and completely embarrassed by the whole situation.  It's my pride that hurts so much, not my heart.

Here's exactly what I'm embarrassed about (and all of it ties in with why did I even stick around... . it's terrible):

1)  He was still married when we met / started dating... . and I knew.  I believed him that they were separated, even though I saw their apartment.  I knew... . but I couldn't seem to stop myself.  There was much hesitation at the beginning, but it died a miserable death when he was so amazingly sweet and loving and just everything I could have dreamed of.

2)  Even though he was still married when we began, he pulled away from me twice - though not completely - before he really left for good... . because he'd found a better victim.  He said he had to give me up to "work" on himself so that he could be the man that I deserve.  I still pledged my support and care for him, though I did not find out about her until months later.  When I did find out, I asked him What the heck? and all I would get from him was "It has to be this way."  He'd officially left his wife at this point, though legal divorce would come a year later.

3)  I pursued a relationship with him pretty hardcore after this first, big disappearance.  He always said "not yet" and my answer was always "all we have is now" and it felt like so much unfinished business that I just would not let go.  I pursued, and I "won" even though he had not ever left or broken up with her.  And despite him telling me that he wasn't ready yet.  I allowed him to use me and allowed him my heart, regardless of the fact that I knew he wasn't finished with his other relationship - even though he told me that it was "over, miserable and doesn't mean anything." (this is also when he'd informed me that he was a monster, to which I replied that I wasn't scared of monsters)  When confronted about the other relationship, I was met with "you're more important to me than life itself, she means nothing to me."  And I believed it... . despite many, MANY clues to the contrary.  He was on his way to moving in with me a few months later when I was contacted by this other girl, but she obviously had no clue that he was even with me.  I responded to her very diplomatically and through continued contact with her, informed her that he and I were more than friends.  This is when he left me the second time to maintain a long distance relationship with her - which, after our next recycle when he allowed me access to his email, I saw how much of a "relationship" it was on his part... . not only was he in a LOT of contact with escorts and a few porn stars, he'd also offered himself up as some sort of escort... . I also learned later, and should have been more surprised, that he'd convinced her that I was crazy and stalking him and was just trying to destroy their love... . which she just ate right up. (so embarrassing!)

4) I had finally decided to let him go for good, when his birthday came around that year and I was impelled to give him a Thank You card... . "thank you for not destroying me like you are doing to this poor, innocent girl who was nothing but good to you."  But all this did was make him want me back... and he broke up with her and pursued me really strongly.  I hesitated and avoided trying to jump back into anything with him, but the pull is just so damn strong with this one.  This is also when he informed me of his diagnosis, but I didn't do enough research.  I did some, but it wasn't enough... .  He put in so much work to get me back. So much.  And I bought it... . but I still didn't trust him and was still plenty angry, and had plenty doubts.  I chose to move forward with the relationship anyway.

5) Despite having avoided any really public knowledge about my relationship with him before this, I began to "share" our love publicly this time.  I put all that sweet ___ on Facebook about how lucky I was to have such a great dude.  How great he is, and those who knew how angry I was before would be surprised at how good and amazing he is now... . and how happy we were.  I was already very embarrassed at this point, but I HAD to make it look good.  I had to "show people" that I had made the right decision.  Underneath all of the public displays, I was really unhappy... . he had a few women that he was in regular contact with, and one in particular that even his ex-wife had problems with.  I tried to allow him to be an adult and do what is right.  I told him plenty of times that he knows right from wrong and it's up to him.  If he wants her, he should be with her... . but he assured me that I was the one and that they were just "friends."  I accepted this in the hopes that he would finally, actually do the right thing.  This went on for a few years... . with the same woman. Even while he was at home with me visiting my family for the first time.

6)I thought I was special.  I thought I was the one he'd actually change for and do good by.  I thought he would actually do what needed to be done in order to figure out himself and get some help so that we could actually live a long and happy life together.  I thought he really did love me... . despite all of the pain and anguish and bull___.  I actually believed that he would figure out that I was not out to hurt him or abandon him and would actually work to be the man that I deserve.  I thought I was special... .

And I am embarrassed.  I am embarrassed at my arrogance to think that I could help him help himself simply by loving him.  I am embarrassed at the fact that I allowed this person to just walk all over me and I never stood up for myself.  I am embarrassed.  Completely.  I made the biggest mistakes that led me here.  And I have no idea how to forgive myself for them.

I was not so easy to walk over before him.  I never allowed such things before him.  And I am embarrassed that I do still feel so connected to him, because his actions and behaviors are not those that should have ever been accepted by this Queen... .  

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

Well Put goldylamont.

Everything you have stated here is how I feel. I am grieving bad right now. My uBPDex was really good looking, bubbly and fun to be around with. However, She enjoyes sex way to much, I do too, but really our relationship was based on sex and nothing more. Guys were hitting on her all the time.  I feel like I will never find someone that good looking again. I am older than her, that is on of reasons I was attracted to her. I felt we were "compatable". I am a very active guy and I dont look my age. I can't see dating someone my age. I believe I will be single for a very long time becuase I just cant see dating someone my age.

Octoberfest, good to hear from you again. It's been a while.

I think i can sum up the core of your question as:

Since I have proof that my ex has mental issues, have watched as she did the same thing to several men (and women), is gaining a rep as a ho and a liar... . then why, why does it still matter to me after this much time if i see her with someone else?

So, I'll think about this for a while. Quick recap, I was in a 4yr r/s and it's been 2 yrs since breakup, 1.5 yr NC. My situation differs from yours in that my ex i feel was a good bit more high functioning than yours--which means that she's able to hide or lie her way out of her behaviors. So only some people are able to see it and she still has plenty of enablers. (your gf seems to be more obvious that she has problems). Also, i never found out about my ex cheating and broke up with her before this... . but i'm not really sure since i couldn't trust anything she said anyway.

In any case i think there's lots of similarities in our experiences. i've read enough of your posts and i feel you're seeking more hard truths and less encouragement. you're already strong enough and have the right perspective and now trying to figure out the last pieces of the puzzle. So i'll try and be as honest as possible.

Find out what is embarrassing you. What are you afraid of? What makes you a little scared about the whole ordeal? At our (later) stages of detachment these are the types of uncomfortable emotions that i am full force running to so I can confront them head on. It's a process but it has worked for me countless times in my development. I would urge you to find out what fears you have regarding relationships and also look at what you are embarrassed about. I'll try and explain more.

After much thought and meditation, here's what I've come up for myself as my main fears and embarrassment. Tell me what you think:

(1) I bet your ex was "hot", right? I can't even remember your posts regarding this but I'm willing to bet that your ex is as good looking physically as she is loony in the mental department. It's how she is able to have so many sexual partners at once--good looking pwBPD have lots of options. It's why one would even consider sticking around after finding out she cheated on them, right?

This is *not* the case for many here. But i think it probably is for many others (including you and i).

My Fears -- that i won't find someone that i am that physically attracted to. i never had a problem finding someone very loving and trustworthy, but i can be picky when falling in love by how attracted i am to her initially.

My Embarrassment -- talking about how important physical attraction to me is is embarrassing. i feel like i will be judged as shallow although i know i'm not.

Ok, so knowing the above (embarrassing as it is  ) I realize i have some things to work on. I have been and currently am reassessing what i find 'beautiful' in a physical sense. I think i need to make some adjustments in this department. and yes i'm saying i need to lower my standards--because the standards are just a figment of imagination anyways. and in actuality i'm not lowering anything, i'm *correcting what needs to be corrected with my perceptions.

Still, i'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I am still looking to find a woman that i feel is completely gorgeous :-) And I don't think this is wrong. But I'm ok questioning my own perceptions regarding this and trying out r/s with women less based on this to see what I come up with. I had a really good r/s for a year with a really beautiful woman... . and found out more about myself in this process. It's all an ongoing process of questioning yourself and whittling away the excess of your convictions (while still keeping them).

(2) My ex... . is kind of a ho? And seeing her run through men and abuse them is odd because it shows me that i wasn't the problem and this is just a pattern for her, but at the same time it's embarrassing to me because i know that she's so loose with her sexuality. in fact she uses it to abuse others.

Realizing i was with someone who uses her sexuality to abuse others is embarrassing for me. I have no guilt though about being with her because this was something completely hidden from me and i feel like our r/s was the longest break she'd taken from acting out like this. in my case it was just how she acted after the breakup rather than during it. but how she was before we met? who knows.

in any case Octoberfest, what i can say is that if anything, right now i don't want to be associated with my ex in the least. i don't want her to be known as Goldylamont's ex or to be seen as {her name}'s ex boyfriend anymore. i don't want to claim her or any of the stink that follows her, you know. she embarrasses me.

YET--on top of this embarrassment is even a bit more fear. and it's the fear i have of losing all fond memories of this person. we had more good times than bad (just my case). hearing all the stuff she's doing now challenges the 'good' image of them you have in your head. and this is a scary thing. i've found i still have some fond memories of our r/s and i'm happy about this... .

Perhaps seeing your ex with another person would still have an effect on you because:

* you know she doesn't meet your character standards and are embarrassed you got fooled for a while

* you question whether you can attract someone else who you are this physically attracted to?

* seeing her do the same thing with plenty of other men devalues anything you saw special in your r/s with her


this became a really long post! but is an example of how i explore my attachments to fears and embarrassment. hope this helps Octoberfest!

[laelle]

You are human, a kind and loving human, of course you would still have feelings for her.  It really wasnt your choice for the relationship to end... . it was her mental illness that sunk the ship in one way or another.  I think that may be really hard to deal with.  I know it is for me at times.

I agree here that you are being hard on yourself because your reaction to it all is not the reaction that you wish to have.  That sucks, but it is what it is, and accepting those feelings will be key in making you feel your old self again.  Your reaction is fine... your reaction is good enough. 

She has problems with herself and can not sustain a healthy relationship.  She didnt win, and it is a bit obvious to me that she has a demon somewhere that she is trying to convince that she can have a healthy relationship.  There is just one problem... . she isnt capable regardless of her best efforts. She moves from relationship to relationship trying to mimic a healthy one in desperate need to enmesh with someone, anyone.  She will spend her entire life that way.  I do not envy her.

As you know grief is not linear, and while you think you are taking two steps back, you are actually taking a huge one forward.

What do you think that leap could be?

[Red Sky]

Goldy, you hit the nail on the head (for a lot of us it seems... . )

Embarrassment kept me in a harmful relationship for way longer than I should have been. Not wanting to admit to others I was wrong. Keeping trying to make it work, to prove to myself I wasn't wrong. (I can be especially defensive because I've been criticised for my sexuality, and I know I will do anything to avoid hearing that these preferences will only lead me to bad relationships... . ) Having to face up to the fact that leaving meant breaking commitments and making myself look bad. I still don't think I'd be able to admit that I'd been in an abusive relationship outwith this forum but for now I'll be satisfied with being able to admit it to myself.

So Octoberfest, I kind of know where you are with the 'why did I try so hard to make it work?' I always trusted that 'I will walk away when I can do so with no regrets' because as long as I could see some good in him I felt it could work. I've always seen myself as a no-nonsense girl with plenty of backbone and hate anything that paints me as vulnerable. To me the fact that you gave her chances just shows that like me, you have a lot of faith in people's inherent goodness. Breaking the cycle takes plenty of backbone and you're doing great... . Keep powering through

[woodsposse]

 

Here is the thing - I don't think it has anything to do with anyone's sexuality.  Anyone who criticizes someone on their life (regardless if it choices or drives or whatever anyone wants to call it).  Your life is your life.  It is not up for anyone to make comment on - as well as your choices. 

Now... . granted, if you choose to rob a bank... . well, I'm not gonna be all like "It's okay.  They are just making their life choices to best suit them.  Not my business."  Well, it would sorta be my business especially if it were my bank - but you know what I mean.

I think my 'embarrassment' isn't because my friends or family may have had a different view of my life choices with my diagnosed PD wife... . mine was with me that I voluntarily stayed in such a toxic relationship, tried to make it work - but all the while was like I knew I could be doing something bigger and better.

I beat myself up over the fact that I "Loved her" and continued to want to be there even though that little voice in the pit of my stomach kept saying something was wrong.  Even to this very day I hear it.

Without going into the long back story, something just happened last night/this morning which brought my ex-wife back into my radar.  And part of me still wants to talk with her to straighten things out if only to make sure we are on the same page so she isn't thinking I'm thinking something I'm not (and things could be stable).

But that is the same thought process I had with her for the past 20 years... . and it never worked!  To this day, I could very rationally and calmly explain my POV, but she thinks it is something different so therefore I must be the one with the problem and that is why we don't get along.

Actually, she is the one with a diagnosed set of issues that I have been running in circles trying to "fix" - not realizing that I can't fix anything and the words coming out of her mouth really mean nothing because they are as skewed as they could possibly be.

In other words, just like with my mother - I have been trying to have a rational conversation with someone who is mentally illl and can't understand what is being said - not from me, anyway.  But I tried and tried and tried.

It wasn't until I finally figured out (with my mother) that she is mentally ill and there is no way she can hear me is when I stopped trying and let her go.  All the hurt and pain and frustration surrounding all the things she did to me as a child and continues to do to me as an adult went away when I finally let go.

I had to finally do the same thing with my ex wife... . but it is still a little difficult (I have a 20 year history of behavior with her that is difficult to break ... . but I'm well on the road to recovery from that).

All that is to say this - I know I can't go back and change anything I did 20 years ago.  Or 10 years ago - or even yesterday.  So I have to accept what I did, for how long I did it - and make a choice if I want to do that today.

[Red Sky]

Indeed. My mum is fond of saying 'You do what you think is right at the time' and I find it a very useful thing to remember... . I did what I thought was best. Whether it was or not is irrelevant since it's in the past.

(I don't think sexuality has anything to do with it. But my family don't even know my last relationship was with a woman and if they knew I'm fairly certain they would tell me I was stupid to get involved with her, just like they blamed a lot of my previous issues on being involved with a bisexual man.)

[woodsposse]

 

Family and friends are funny.

Everybody knows what is best for you!  And, typically - everyone has a different polar opposite opinion of what you should be doing from each other. 

When my wife and I finally split (for good) - I was dead set on not going back into it, and had an opportunity to start dating someone a few months later.  So one very good friend of mine got all up in arms about what I was doing by dating so soon - and I was making a big mistake  - and there were all sorts of problems and red flags and all manners of "You don't know what you are doing!"

It really got to a point where her and I are no longer friends (it is a very long story... . which I don't mind sharing, but in a different post).

Bottom line is this - I am really the only person (at the end of the day) who is responsible for what I do, what I choose to do - wheter it is right, wrong or somewhere in the middle.

I appreciate the few close people in my life who actually 'get it' and take me where I'm at - and know I'm really doing the best I can trying to make my transition from a 20 year relationship to a "new life" where my legs are not strong enough to stand, let alone walk or run.

Maybe getting involved with someone two months out wasn't the best idea... . but damn it - I was lonely and hurt and needed the attention.  Yeah, maybe it was a rebound. Yeah, maybe she was as messed up in the head as I was - but we had a great time, and I felt normal.  And our relationship was drama free and stress free... . and I needed that!

So all those people who were playa hatin... . can bite me!  (sorry, venting a bit!)

[Learning_curve74]

I have always been very hard on myself. It makes the being ashamed part that much worse. 

That's okay, Octoberfest. You're a work in progress; we are all a work in progress until we take the dirt nap.

And going back to your original post in the thread: it's okay to feel like you're connected to her. She is a part of your past, somebody that you loved, it just didn't work out because... . The women that I fell in love with in my life were important to me, so I don't deny that part of my personal history. I'm not good at the "just friends" thing post-relationship, so I really never kept up with any of my old girlfriends, and while every once in a while I might wonder whatever happened to them, they are mostly just memories to me.

[Red Sky]

I take being hard on oneself as a blessing and a curse... . You might find it hard to live with yourself but you're probably also the kind of person who is always striving to improve yourself. I'm going to bet that you learn from your mistakes and you work hard.

[Arminius]

Goldy, and Notsurewhat

You have both made me feel more in touch with the facts.

I also fear being thought do as shallow for wanting another 'hot' partner. And I'm also having trouble meeting women my age who I find attractive. My uBPDxgf was ten year younger, ( and she's now with a man almost 20 years older, so at least I can't blame my age!)

[Tausk]

This led me to the point of this post... . that for all the time and space that my BPDex and I have had, given that I DO NOT love her any longer, I still feel irreparably connected or linked or bonded to her. Even after not having talked for 10 months, having no real interaction, having been talking to and fooling around with other girls, for some reason I still have her narrative and my own connected... . and I write this post looking for any wisdom or thoughts concerning this issue... . because it is an issue.

haunt·ing

adjective: haunting

poignant and evocative; difficult to ignore or forget

Or like--enjoying a Nutty Buddy-ice cream cone, tasting fabulous, until reaching the very tip at the bottom, biting down, for that final complimentary morsel of chocolate, completing the experience, instead a razor blade shard, slices open your tongue.  It's difficult to ignore or forget... . a Nutty Buddy like that... .      

October, when "breaking a bond" forces an artificial construct--it is compartmentalizing. A natural synergism occurs when that "alluring bond" is balanced within the context of living a meaningful life. One accepts the pull, but the impact is not universally disabling. It is discrete.

The curse and blessing of youth (such as yours) is that many of those elements which comprise a meaningful life are still in their infancy--anticipatory. The blessing is that you still have eons to find those elements for yourself.

No single attachment makes life meaningful. They can be important and pleasurable, horrifically painful, loving, and sometimes sadly traumatic--but alone they do not give meaning to life. Balancing any lingering bond that you feel, within the greater context/progression of your life--does not require annihilating said bond. Let it recede like the ending of the seasons, over the course of time--as life progresses. All things change. 

This is very sublime. Thanks Con!

You're right, it's not really possible to simply break the bonds.  How can we fall out of love with someone?  How do we stop craving an addiction?  We don't.  It's not really possible.  So what I've needed to do it fill the void left behind with things that are more meaningful than my ex. 

I used my ex to fill a spiritual void that existed before she arrived.  And rather than look into that void, it was easier to fill it with my ex, who could be described as:  An Addiction, An excuse to not to delve inside myself, A mirror to my false self, A false god to provide meaning to my life... .

But now that she's gone, it doesn't matter that I know that her actions are essentially sociopathic.  I still want her to fill the void. 

So instead, I've tried to find the real self.  And look at the void that remains in the real self, and fill it with truly meaningful items. 

Such as supporting my family and friends, working to develop a kinder more generous self, and doing the work that has allowed me to become the person that I've always wanted to be, not just falsely professed to be. 

I don't know if I'm making sense, other than to say that my bonds to my ex are not broken,  my desires for her idealization and mirroring are not broken ... . but rather, I've have discovered alternative paths, with much more productive and meaningful consequences, that allow me to simply say no to the Disorder.

[myself]

We get hung up on who we thought we were going to be, instead of seeing who we are/can be. Still seeing with the eyes we used to use. We choose our bonds, don't we? There is so much pain and beauty in the past. So much of that is different now. There is so much pain and beauty in the present.

[woodsposse]

 

Story sharing time.

When I was younger and had just graduated High School, I met a young lady (I was 17, she was or 20, if i remember our age difference correctly).  She was actually a friend of my brother (and we had some mutual friends too).

Anyway, we started dating. She was my first GF (which included sex).  So it was fun... . for a little while.  But shortly after we started dating, I had an overwhelming urge to break up with her.  I have looked back at this time over and over in my mind and there were a lot of reasons why I wasn't "that into her" - but suffice it to say, I wasn't all the "in".

But... . I couldn't bring myself to break up with her.  Then when I did want to break up with her, she pulled the "i'm going to committ suicide thing" - which forced me to stay for a while longer.  Then later when when I ran off to basic training (and anyone who knows the stress you go through in BMT) I asked her to marry me in a letter. She said yes and all was well with the world - until a few weeks later when I got out of BMT and went to tech school. 

I felt I made a huge mistake, but didn't know how to rectify it. 

No worries.  I got stationed overseas so we did a long distance thing for a bit.  I "loved her" - but I wasn't ready to go all in. You couldn't tell from my letters or phone calls - but I wasn't all in.

Then I came home on vacation.  Was suppose to pick up the rings.  On the way to pick up the rings I forced myself to admit this wasn't the right thing... . that I didn't want to get married.  I could have left it there, but I said "I'm not saying no to you, I"m saying no to marriage at this time... . we can still be bf/gf."

MAN!  Why did I do that?  I knew I didn't want that - but I was "making it easy" (so I thought).  She, in turn, tried to get pregnant to try and trap me.  It didn't work (well, sorta didn't)  Oh she got pregnant, said it was my kid - but woulnd't get him tested.  For years that battle raged on until the state finally ordered a DNA test which proved I wasn't the father (but that part is a different story).

What I'm trying to get to is - if you looked at my behavior, conversations, how I could tell her I love her... . while trying to bed every single woman overseas I could - you would think I was stark raving BPD all over the place.

In reality - I was just an immature 19 year old away from home for the first time and not really sure what I was doing in life, let alone in a relationship with an intimate partner.

She may have had a very strong bond with me - but my bond with her was never really on that level (considering I was sitting on a fence from about 3 months in).  I'm just sorry that it took close to a year and a half and me going overseas to reach that tipping point where I could finally say "I'm out".

It wasn't that I was seeing anyone else either.  I mean, I was living my life overseas and I liked being single (or available for whatever life brought me)... . and, yes, there were things about her that I found disagreeable with (even though she could be a really nice woman.)

All that is to say this - when I broke up with her - regardless of when and how, for me... . there were no emotional hold outs (well, with the exception of that whole kid thing... . that messed me up for a long time) - but for her, there wasn't that much of anything to have to break because it was gone.

I could see how her talking with me after we split (which I never did) coould have continued to make her hurt.  But because I wasn't a monster... . I moved on and hoped she would to.  (But she still played that kid card for a long time until she was forced to admit the truth... . again, totally different tale).

All I'm saying is at 19 I was no more personality disordered than any other typical immature 19 year old who just has to learn about the world and their role in it.

Yes the bonds are difficult to break - but... . that's what is in our head - not theirs.

Sickness or not, it happens.

Back in the day - I knew there was nothing which could have been done to have kept us together. Even if I believed the kid was mine, I didn't want to be with her and I would have supported my child and did everything I coould to be in his life... . but between her and I - there was nothing.

So how do you break the bond? 

One sure fire way is to try and see the r/s for what it was - not for what you think it was.  Maybe that involves the other person telling you some blunt truths.  Or maybe they already did, but you just don't want to hear it.

But ultimately it all comes back to you.  Always.

So, go and be happy with you.  Let the happiness path start with your first step and continue with each step you make going forward.