One way ticket to AWESOME TOWN

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Good day All

Thank you so much to everyone on this website. If you are new here, this is exactly where you should be. I just joined to contribute to a site that changed my life for the better. Here's my story and my advice to all of you... .

I was in a BPD relationship. I was idolized in the first few weeks. The physical relationship was mind-blowing, the emotional relationship was great etc. etc. (You've heard it all) Then the troubles started. First she isolated me from friends and family. I had no-one left. She would make sure that any gathering was spoilt by her, leaving me in a situation where I didn't want to go out anymore because of her irrational behavior (Where once she loved all my friends). Then, I was painted black. Couldn't leave her (I tried to!) because I was threatened with suicide and false abuse accusations which she would spread to my family, friends and police (I'm a lawyer, can't afford such accusations professionally). I was in hell. Truly! Hated life and every moment of it.

Lastly, no more talk about me. Had to listen to her all day, had nothing left of my previous self. No longer able to talk about my work achievements, my friends, my family. Had nothing left. Just her. And she was painting me black. Of course, whilst flirting with numerous other guys and devaluing me every chance she got. I finally got my own back thanks to this web-site. I planned well and left at the right moment. She went ahead with the accusations, but I was prepared by making sure my family knew, police were briefed, all legal docs in place to make sure she can't touch me now. AND THE GOLDEN RULE : NO CONTACT!

Unfortunately I realised the following and would like to offer this advice to everyone out there:

- BPD's LOVE hurting and ABUSING other people (YES, THEY DO!) I confronted her about hurting others and she kept on smiling sadistically and loving the "achievement" of it;

- They don't want help with their behaviour. When they ask for help they want someone to help them get back and hurt others, or help getting a new target/partner;

- They don't love you! They can't love - It's all about them. Love is a mutual feeling of understanding in the most unselfish way. A BPD is not capable of this!;

- The love revenge (Even though you did nothing wrong);

- The LIE LIE LIE (About everything); Don't believe the abuse stories.

- They WILL cheat on you. THEY WILL! Give them half a chance. Not saying everyone has been cheated on but they will. AND THEY WILL DO IT TO HURT YOU AND WILL LOVE DOING IT!;

- They don't care about you. A baby cries when it wants something. So do they. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TO GET A REACTION FROM YOU! It is about them. Always!

- They will hold you hostage. They WILL ISOLATE YOU!;

- It IS that bad. You will not get out of it easily;

What do you do now?

- Take their power away. NO CONTACT. NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER; And don't feel like a wimp guys and girls. Everything they did was to gain a reaction from you. Even cheating and flirting. So remember, you were and probably are still the king/queen of their world. Don't feel rejected at all. That's how THEY feel! She tried contacting me, but I resisted. Later heard it drove her crazy. GOOD! At least some justice, right? TAKE THEIR POWER AWAY. They WANT to hurt you. THEY DO! By not allowing it YOU WIN. Yes, you can win!

Do you wonder if they are still thinking about you?

- If you contact them? No. Because then you reacted how they wanted you to. If you don't. YES, IT DRIVES THEM NUTS! BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THEM;

THIS IS IMPORTANT:Being cheated on says nothing about you. It says something about them! Don't feel ashamed, don't be afraid to tell your friends. They will know what a great guy/girl you are and what a heartless monster the BPD was. You have nothing to feel sorry or ashamed about when you were cheated on! Remember, it says something about them! You are the good person. Think about it : Have you ever felt that a person who got cheated on deserved it? NO! And neither did you. Tell your friends and families. They WILL comfort you.

Do they have a conscience and will they know they were wrong?

- YES THEY DO! They despise themselves daily about driving others away. SHE/ HE KNOWS! Trust me, This is true. My ex's family always told me how she hates herself for driving any friends, family and SO's away. SHE/HE knows and will feel very very sorry for years after you have healed. That is why they hate themselves in the first place... . That is why they feel unworthy!

LASTLY : Listen to your family and friends. Tell them the truth. She/he is a heartless monster who tried to abuse and break you. DON'T GO BACK. NO CONTACT IS THE WAY.

I did it and finally I am free. It took some time to heal but I am there and I feel great. I look great. My hair stopped falling out. I am no longer as grey. I am in the best shape I have ever been. I have a beautiful house, awesome job, car, friends, family etc. I am GLAD I went through this because I love my family and friends now more than ever before. She brought us closer by showing that nothing will tear us apart. I appreciate life. I love it. I HAVE IT BACK! NO CONTACT poeple! That is how. Do I have a new partner yet? No, but I don't need anyone. I will get a new partner when the RIGHT person comes along. I only had her for so long. I got my family and 20+ friends back now. I told them the truth and they are here for me. AGAIN: BPD people will make you believe that you are worthless without a partner and they always have someone. Whatever mate, it's a joke! Single is awesome too. Yo are awesome alone. And now that you've find this website you are not alone! I'm your friend too!

So where is she now? Probably screwing someone, whatever. I don't care. Should people feel sorry for them? Yes, they are lost and will forever leave destruction in their wake. Should YOU and I feel sorry for them? No way bro, we suffered through it and therefore we are exempt from that. We kept them alive whilst we were with them. We owe them nothing.  Just take your time, do No Contact and heal with us.

So where to from here fellow sufferers?... . One way ticket to AWESOME TOWN. Anyone want to join me?

[Pieter2]

Good day All

Thank you so much to everyone on this website. If you are new here, this is exactly where you should be. I just joined to contribute to a site that changed my life for the better. Here's my story and my advice to all of you... .

I was in a BPD relationship. I was idolized in the first few weeks. The physical relationship was mind-blowing, the emotional relationship was great etc. etc. (You've heard it all) Then the troubles started. First she isolated me from friends and family. I had no-one left. She would make sure that any gathering was spoilt by her, leaving me in a situation where I didn't want to go out anymore because of her irrational behavior (Where once she loved all my friends). Then, I was painted black. Couldn't leave her (I tried to!) because I was threatened with suicide and false abuse accusations which she would spread to my family, friends and police (I'm a lawyer, can't afford such accusations professionally). I was in hell. Truly! Hated life and every moment of it.

Lastly, no more talk about me. Had to listen to her all day, had nothing left of my previous self. No longer able to talk about my work achievements, my friends, my family. Had nothing left. Just her. And she was painting me black. Of course, whilst flirting with numerous other guys and devaluing me every chance she got. I finally got my own back thanks to this web-site. I planned well and left at the right moment. She went ahead with the accusations, but I was prepared by making sure my family knew, police were briefed, all legal docs in place to make sure she can't touch me now. AND THE GOLDEN RULE : NO CONTACT!

Unfortunately I realised the following and would like to offer this advice to everyone out there:

- BPD's LOVE hurting and ABUSING other people (YES, THEY DO!) I confronted her about hurting others and she kept on smiling sadistically and loving the "achievement" of it;

- They don't want help with their behaviour. When they ask for help they want someone to help them get back and hurt others, or help getting a new target/partner;

- They don't love you! They can't love - It's all about them. Love is a mutual feeling of understanding in the most unselfish way. A BPD is not capable of this!;

- The love revenge (Even though you did nothing wrong);

- The LIE LIE LIE (About everything); Don't believe the abuse stories.

- They WILL cheat on you. THEY WILL! Give them half a chance. Not saying everyone has been cheated on but they will. AND THEY WILL DO IT TO HURT YOU AND WILL LOVE DOING IT!;

- They don't care about you. A baby cries when it wants something. So do they. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TO GET A REACTION FROM YOU! It is about them. Always!

- They will hold you hostage. They WILL ISOLATE YOU!;

- It IS that bad. You will not get out of it easily;

What do you do now?

- Take their power away. NO CONTACT. NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER; And don't feel like a wimp guys and girls. Everything they did was to gain a reaction from you. Even cheating and flirting. So remember, you were and probably are still the king/queen of their world. Don't feel rejected at all. That's how THEY feel! She tried contacting me, but I resisted. Later heard it drove her crazy. GOOD! At least some justice, right? TAKE THEIR POWER AWAY. They WANT to hurt you. THEY DO! By not allowing it YOU WIN. Yes, you can win!

Do you wonder if they are still thinking about you?

- If you contact them? No. Because then you reacted how they wanted you to. If you don't. YES, IT DRIVES THEM NUTS! BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THEM;

THIS IS IMPORTANT:Being cheated on says nothing about you. It says something about them! Don't feel ashamed, don't be afraid to tell your friends. They will know what a great guy/girl you are and what a heartless monster the BPD was. You have nothing to feel sorry or ashamed about when you were cheated on! Remember, it says something about them! You are the good person. Think about it : Have you ever felt that a person who got cheated on deserved it? NO! And neither did you. Tell your friends and families. They WILL comfort you.

Do they have a conscience and will they know they were wrong?

- YES THEY DO! They despise themselves daily about driving others away. SHE/ HE KNOWS! Trust me, This is true. My ex's family always told me how she hates herself for driving any friends, family and SO's away. SHE/HE knows and will feel very very sorry for years after you have healed. That is why they hate themselves in the first place... . That is why they feel unworthy!

LASTLY : Listen to your family and friends. Tell them the truth. She/he is a heartless monster who tried to abuse and break you. DON'T GO BACK. NO CONTACT IS THE WAY.

I did it and finally I am free. It took some time to heal but I am there and I feel great. I look great. My hair stopped falling out. I am no longer as grey. I am in the best shape I have ever been. I have a beautiful house, awesome job, car, friends, family etc. I am GLAD I went through this because I love my family and friends now more than ever before. She brought us closer by showing that nothing will tear us apart. I appreciate life. I love it. I HAVE IT BACK! NO CONTACT poeple! That is how. Do I have a new partner yet? No, but I don't need anyone. I will get a new partner when the RIGHT person comes along. I only had her for so long. I got my family and 20+ friends back now. I told them the truth and they are here for me. AGAIN: BPD people will make you believe that you are worthless without a partner and they always have someone. Whatever mate, it's a joke! Single is awesome too. Yo are awesome alone. And now that you've find this website you are not alone! I'm your friend too!

So where is she now? Probably screwing someone, whatever. I don't care. Should people feel sorry for them? Yes, they are lost and will forever leave destruction in their wake. Should YOU and I feel sorry for them? No way bro, we suffered through it and therefore we are exempt from that. We kept them alive whilst we were with them. We owe them nothing.  Just take your time, do No Contact and heal with us.

So where to from here fellow sufferers?... . One way ticket to AWESOME TOWN. Anyone want to join me?

[Haye]

Unfortunately I realised the following and would like to offer this advice to everyone out there:

- BPD's LOVE hurting and ABUSING other people (YES, THEY DO!) I confronted her about hurting others and she kept on smiling sadistically and loving the "achievement" of it;

- They don't want help with their behaviour. When they ask for help they want someone to help them get back and hurt others, or help getting a new target/partner;

- They don't love you! They can't love - It's all about them. Love is a mutual feeling of understanding in the most unselfish way. A BPD is not capable of this!;

- The love revenge (Even though you did nothing wrong);

- The LIE LIE LIE (About everything); Don't believe the abuse stories.

- They WILL cheat on you. THEY WILL! Give them half a chance. Not saying everyone has been cheated on but they will. AND THEY WILL

I'm shocked. This describes BPD sufferers as monsters without any hint of soul, consiense or even ability to feel any other feelings other than joy of hurting someone, revenge or such. In my opinion this is needlessy cold and harsh. Also, knowing one BPD doesn't mean you'd know all of them nor who is capable of healing and who isn't. BPD's are able to love, for example, but their inner belief might be "i'm not worthy of love" so deeply that reject love. Some fear abandonment so much they don't even bond closely - it's not that they cannot or are not willing to, but fear being left too deeply and thus, paradoxically, cause it to happen. Some of them lie, and some of them don't, and some of those who lie can learn out of it given the chance of therapy/healing. And it is not true that everything is about them and all they do is want to destroy someone - yes there might be someone out there not willing to see flaws in themselves, just waiting to destroy you, but there are also those who are ready to change.

[MustangMan]

I agree with Hayes.  As much as I have and currently suffering from my BPD r/s, I would never be that harsh on them.   They don't love hurting people, even though it may LOOK like it.  Their personnality is a failure to mature properly emotion-wise, usually because of bad treatment from their parent.  They did not CHOOSE this way of life.

You have more to work on yourself than you believe, dear Pieter2.  You must use your past BPD r/s as a way to  look deep at yourself, not just putting the blame on the other person.  Are you always looking for women you treat s you like a knight in shiny armor? To cite someone from another post:

Kids idealize you normal adults don't, if you fell for an adoring BPD much of that attraction came from the disorder-based way they acted.  We relate to them with all kinds of strong emotions that are stirred up by what seems to be getting the unconditional love we didn't get enough of when we were little... . but they are not normal/healthy mature adults or they wouldn't act like they do.   

[chickenlittle123]

Actually I think he nailed it on the head for my situation...

But it took me 30 plus years to figure it out. Mainly because I was in denial, and felt shame, and guilt all the other emotions that they use to control you to stay in the dance.   

I was in denial that my chosen partner in life could be against me, so I really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, over and over as that is what I have always been taught...

But my continued faith in that he had my good at heart is what was my unraveling... and caused dysfunctional behavior and destructive patterns in my children today

We all don't want to believe that their are some people can be this ruthless, and cruel,- but lets not take away the voice of someone that has lost so much due to his trusted involvement with a person like this.

Your BPD might not be this bad as his was. And I hope he never gets there for your sake.

But I for one can appreciate his attempt to help others that are suffering at the hands of abusers that are truly that bad.

[charred]

When you are devastated by a pwBPD... you blame yourself at first... then them, and in a while you see that they are disordered and dealing with BPD... and you want to find out all you can about it and what could be done or could have been done to make the r/s work... and in time, you realize that each volley they served, you returned... you were part of the fighting. They did things to you, were not considerate of your feelings and you want to see them get help and possibly be tattooed with a warning sign to protect the innocent. But once your hurt and vengeful thoughts subside, you start to see that much of the r/s was an illusion, you thought it was something special and your ego really fights viewing them as disordered... the love of your life can't be an emotional cripple... what would that make you?

I grappled with those thoughts for some time... and concluded... that it made me an adult with a less than perfect childhood and some lingering issues to address... same as about 99.9% of the people I meet. Saw a horse touch an electric fence and get shocked... it jumped, got mad and kicked the horse next to it. Wasn't about to get shocked again, and figured it must have been someone else's fault I guess. Lashing out at the fence doens't work, and kicking the people around you isn't fair either.

People with BPD have it horrible... can't imagine what it is like.

My pwBPD left a path of destruction ... . with me in it, many times.

She was as toxic for me as an electric fence... just move on and quit getting zapped.

[Fanie]

All non's are under pressure from their loved BPD's

Some have children that concerns us dearly  

Some wish to get out, or even on the way out

some would like to stay and need support

And then there is me - jumping from Staying to Undecided every 24 hours

What I think is important : is that we should not be judgmental

I cant go happy singing goodbye to my uBPDw and 2 beautiful toddlers - I cant - God forbids

So - people should post on the appropriate board

If you are leaving don't post on the staying board please

There are people on Staying that really wants their relationships to work

and will do whatever it take to make it work

WE are very fragile as it is and don't want to read about people that left and soo happy ... .

Its not contributory to any of us

Pieter I am not blaming you buddy, just my 2 cents

Good luck in you new free life

[Isabelle8]

Thank you so much for this post!  It actually helped me reading it, because the reminders are great.  I too noticed that the minute I stopped contacting her, she would start contacting me.  There is definitely something about that.  She will send me the most ridiculous messages just to see which one will get a reaction.  Well, I finally said enough and will have no contact, because that's the only way to get your peace of mind again.  Yes, you will forever be blamed for everything in their lives, for everything that happened in the relationship, and you will be the horrible person that hurt them and they are angry with you and will want revenge.  :)etach!  I know it's hard to do, but I am learning.  Little by little.

I also am reconnecting with my 20+ friends I lost and it feels great.  I will get better.  I already am getting better.  My therapist told me that the only people who get better, and get better quicker are the ones who are not in contact.  Keep that in mind if you truly want to be free of this.

Thank you again for posting!  This is a great and encouraging message.

[woodsposse]

 

True... . true... . and true!  I couldn't have said it better myself.

After me and my (now) exwife split... . the real torture began.  I really wanted to walk away, but I really couldn't.  She still wanted to hold on with texts and calls - even though my defense wall went up.  I then started seeing someone (first time in almost 20 years) - and the moment she found out... . oh the fireworks started.

This, of course, was while she was bedding some dude she started a relationship with while we were together - but that didn't seem to stop her.  So for the next 18 months I refused to break up with my new GF.  Yeah, it was probably too soon to start a new r/s, but I did it anyway.  Partly to feel normal again - and because I really did like/care for my new GF... . but also because I wasn't going to let my diagnosed soon to be ex wife control my life.

she expressed her displeasure in me dating (and even keeping some of the real friends I had)... . but that didn't stop me.  I just had to get to the point where I could heal.  And being in continued contact with her was certainly not helping.

It really wasn't until I came here, got a better understanding of what I was dealing with AND went NC did things start to finally fall into place and the healing could really begin.

NC was a godsend!  I know it wasn't and isn't meant to be punishment (but honestly... . if that is one of the side effects for her after all she put me and us through... . I'll take it).

[Ihope2]

Pieter2, what I am missing in your post is the self-examination.  What role did you play in the dynamic? 

I am sorry, but all this vitriole and painting people with BPD black, is too one-sided for me.  They are not all evil and we "nons" are not all good either.

In fact, it goes beyond judgment and labelling.  People with personality disorders are badly damaged individuals, and as someone who was intensely attracted and traumatically bonded to such a person, I need to look inward at myself.  What is it about me, that becomes attracted to such a person in the first place.

So I won't be joining you in your Awesome Town just yet thanks.  I prefer to stay in Reality City.

[Split black]

Pieter2, what I am missing in your post is the self-examination.  What role did you play in the dynamic? 

I am sorry, but all this vitriole and painting people with BPD black, is too one-sided for me.  They are not all evil and we "nons" are not all good either.

In fact, it goes beyond judgment and labelling.  People with personality disorders are badly damaged individuals, and as someone who was intensely attracted and traumatically bonded to such a person, I need to look inward at myself.  What is it about me, that becomes attracted to such a person in the first place.

So I won't be joining you in your Awesome Town just yet thanks.  I prefer to stay in Reality City.

I hear you... . but I dont think you are correct.

The onesided-ness of resentment comes from months or maybe years of abuse for one reason or another. My crime... . was to stay and suck up her crap. That was my fault in the dynamic. Not sure about others... . I should have walked after the first red flag like I would in the past. Yes, you have to dig deep to answer the WHY of staying when your being lied to and cheated on and used, but that doesn't give them a pass for such ___ty behavior. They are functioning adults however miserably... . on some level THEY KNOW what they are doing. They CAN stop and get help to modify their behavior. They just dont want to do their destroyed emotional development. Sorry.

[Ihope2]

Let me be frank, I realise it is draining and exhausting and damaging to be in a relationship with a person with BPD, and that once out of the relationship, a kind of elation sets in.  "Finally, I am free!" etc.  I know the feeling.  But I cannot tolerate crowing about how bad the person with BPD was, how blatantly evil, wicked and that they took pleasure in torturing poor little old me.  That means I am still totally stuck in the Drama Triangle, I am a victim while they have been persecuting me all along.

What made me tolerate the dysfunction and abusive treatment from my partner?  Why was I drawn to them in the first place?  I had a choice in the relationship, I decided to marry my husband, nobody put a gun to my head.  So I am not going to go around casting aspersions on him and denouncing myself as the poor blameless victim in the story.

I feel incredibly sorry for my soon to be ex BPDh.  What a waste of potential.  I wonder about the man he could have been, had it not been for the factors that shaped his personality towards BPD.  It is a great tragedy that people with BPD wreak such havoc with their lives and the lives of others, they are truly "hungry ghosts", lost souls wandering through a life "all sound and fury, signifying nothing".  I cannot hate people like that, only feel deeply sorry for them and wish them well on their way, whilst I take my painful learnings and go on my way.

[Turkish]

Pieter2,

NC is definitely a good and hard boundary to establish, and in many of our cases, necessary, due to numerous reasons. A threat to your professional career is certainly a good reason. For some of us, however, it is not so cut and dried. We establish our own boundaries of LC, in a lot of cases for family reasons. It hurts, and it can be a minefied to navigate, but some of us have children with our pwBPD, and it's a delicate balance to maintain.

Leaving aside children, what would I have done with my pwBPD? NC, for sure. We recycled exactly once before kids were involved. She wanted to discard me, and I her, too. But we kept each other out of fear of losing the other. It is what it is now, and we're no longer together. I did, however, play a part in the game. I could talk about gaslighting, projection, FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt), but that focuses a lot of the responsibility onto her.

A relationship involves two people. I think, "what was my responsibility, aside from the BPD?" It's hard to process, because of the BPD, but we own our own issues, and surely there is a reason why we endured a r/s with a BPD.

[Pieter2]

Thank you all for your replies. I would like to add that I did not have kids with her and luckily realised the truth early on. I do not advocate that NC will work for everyone. Obviously with kids etc. it isn't an option. I am not resentful at all and did a lot of introspection and am a better person now than before. I wanted to leave her long before I did. I tried getting her to a therapist and my idea was to then go with her and work with the therapist to remain friends with her and to help her through it. I didn't want to abandon her and was working (with my family - my dad gave me the plan. He is a fantastic therapist) to find a solution for her before leaving, because I also thought she had such potential. She started seeing a therapist and I was very happy about it. When I asked for the therapist's details, to go see her and ask her how to leave, I found out the "therapist" was a Brazilian guy who she was sleeping with. So I couldn't help her. At all. She didn't want the help. So then I left.

Lastly, just some clarity: I asked her how it felt to hurt others, and she admitted is was GREAT. So no distortion of facts there. Stay well people. I'm going skydiving with my assistants now! (Which I could never do before, since I was accused of sleeping with them before) Awesome Town is AWESOME!

[Skip]

When I asked for the therapist's details, to go see her and ask her how to leave, I found out the "therapist" was a Brazilian guy who she was sleeping with. So I couldn't help her. At all. She didn't want the help. So then I left.

This plot is skipping around a bit.  

I asked her how it felt to hurt others, and she admitted is was GREAT. So no distortion of facts there. Stay well people. I'm going skydiving with my assistants now! (Which I could never do before, since I was accused of sleeping with them before) Awesome Town is AWESOME!

Is the long and short of this closing summary simply a "good vs evil" story with a happy ending and a lesson learned of "discard and be healed"?  

Or is there more, barrister?

Let's ask questions.  That's what we do here.  Get others opinions and perspectives on our thoughts.  

Next witness.

Skip

PS: Welcome chickenlittle123

[grover11]

Pieter2, what I am missing in your post is the self-examination.  What role did you play in the dynamic? 

I am sorry, but all this vitriole and painting people with BPD black, is too one-sided for me.  They are not all evil and we "nons" are not all good either.

In fact, it goes beyond judgment and labelling.  People with personality disorders are badly damaged individuals, and as someone who was intensely attracted and traumatically bonded to such a person, I need to look inward at myself.  What is it about me, that becomes attracted to such a person in the first place.

So I won't be joining you in your Awesome Town just yet thanks.  I prefer to stay in Reality City.

I have to agree with Ihope2. I don't even remotely look at my wife as a monster if anything it's quite the opposite. She can be one of the most caring people I know. Being as close as a spouse to her was a challenge to say the least and for my own sanity I chose to leave but I see her as sick and needing help I couldn't give.

[woodsposse]

In my humble opinion - it isn't about painting a pwBPD (or any PD) black.  It's not even about looking at them as evil or as monsters.  Yes, they are damaged, ill, see the world different, can't or won't get help.  They are loving and tender and can be full of hope and all the like.

Yes, it is also about "what is/was it in me which allowed me to stay".  Yes it is about "what was going on in my head or life or whatever which made me think some of the initial behaviors (red flags) were okay, or going to be okay".

In the end... . it isn't about us versus them - but more so what can we do to keep what is going on real, and protect us (even from us).

I saw a very interesting episode of "Intervention" last night.  The short of it is a married couple and he was a meth addict and it was tearing her apart emotionoally and financially.  She did everything she could to help protect him and herself... . got his friends and family to do the intervention to help save him.  He went.  :)id the treatment... . but then relapsed a little while later - and she filed for divorce.

After that, I guess it was his rock bottom - he went back to treatment, and has now been clean since 2008 (or some long period of time).

I'm sure she doesn't think he is a monster or evil, but is ill and needed help that he either didn't do or coouldn't do... . so she had to protect herself (and is probably living a happier life now).

It's sort of the same thing.

Was she a victim in the r/s?  She voluntarily entered the union - and stayed - and "put up with" his illness but was very vocal about it up to and through treatment and relapse.  I'm positive it tore her apart... . and maybe it took him loosing her for him to want to get his stuff straight (but in the process lost her).

Nothing is black and white (well... . yeah, there are some things which are... . like boundaries, but that is a different concept).

I prefer to live my life without the constant chaos, drama, illogical and irrational conversations/arguments/conflict.  Whether my SO did it on purpose or was ill and I couldn't help her - is irrelevant at this point.  My life is back on track... . my days are calm and my head is clear.

I miss and love my (now) exwife.  I remember fondly the great times we had together for almost 20 years.  And I recall with excruciating accuracy the bad (the lies, the cheating, the rage, the self harm, the suicide talk and all the manipulation).

Hate the sin... . not the sinner comes to mind.

[Isabelle8]

I am surprised so many people attacked the author of the original post.  I think of course there are various degrees of BPD and nobody tries to deny that they do "try" to love, but there is a very, almost sociopath element to their ability to hurt you.  If they feel threatened or hurt, they will lash out and take pleasure in hurting you back, even if the threat was only perceived.  Some of you may be in denial about it and/or manipulated by your BPD partner (I was!) but it's true. It's that difference in their inability to feel love the same way as you, that makes it ultimately impossible to maintain a relationship with them. 

[woodsposse]

I am surprised so many people attacked the author of the original post.  I think of course there are various degrees of BPD and nobody tries to deny that they do "try" to love, but there is a very, almost sociopath element to their ability to hurt you.  If they feel threatened or hurt, they will lash out and take pleasure in hurting you back, even if the threat was only perceived.  Some of you may be in denial about it and/or manipulated by your BPD partner (I was!) but it's true. It's that difference in their inability to feel love the same way as you, that makes it ultimately impossible to maintain a relationship with them. 

Very good insight. 

Yes, they do love ... . or try to ... . but it is different for them.  Whatever they feel is real.  And that is something very difficult to understand, especially if you don't know that that is what is going on in their head.  I had many many many conversations with my SO where she flat out told me I did things I never did, or said things I never said - regardless if I calmly and rationally explained my point of view/perspective/motivation or whatever.

If she felt it... . then it was true.  And that is something very difficult to wrap your brain around.

Personally, I don't think anyone was attacked in this post - we all have a wide range of perspectives (and may be at different points in our own healing) - so all points are valid.

I know I was at a point earlier where I was so angry.  Angry at her... . angry at myself... . angry at the illness - and ultimately - angry with my mother.

Then that changed a bit to feeling empathy. Then got angry at myself for feeling empathy (after everything my SO did to me).  It is difficult to have empathy for a woman you have been with for almost 20 years when she looks you dead in the eye, tells you she loves you - while all the while she is carrying on a r/s with my replacement.

But then the empathy turned to me.  My focus turned to me - and I was no longer angry or felt like I shouldn't be "selfish".  I finally realized me spending the time, energy and effort I needed to heal me wasn't selfish - it was what has been needed all along.

Yes, I still love her.  Well, at least the memory of her and I.  I think I would like to sit with her again - talk with her again  - love her again.  But, sadly, the reality of it is... . that will never happen.  Even if she does get help, even if she does do whatver she needs to do to get well... . it will never happen.

Mostly because I can't allow it to happen.  Not with her. Not with anyone who exhibits behaviors or mindsets like she has (and I lived under for so very long).  That's not an "I hate her" thing, or she is a monster thing - it just means I am in a place of emotional stability and wellness, and prefer to stay here and grow more and more stronger in it.

I do 'wish' her the best in whatever she does and would like for her to be happy.  But her wellness and happiness ... . not my monkeys any longer.

[BorisAcusio]

I am surprised so many people attacked the author of the original post.  I think of course there are various degrees of BPD and nobody tries to deny that they do "try" to love, but there is a very, almost sociopath element to their ability to hurt you.  If they feel threatened or hurt, they will lash out and take pleasure in hurting you back, even if the threat was only perceived.  Some of you may be in denial about it and/or manipulated by your BPD partner (I was!) but it's true. It's that difference in their inability to feel love the same way as you, that makes it ultimately impossible to maintain a relationship with them.  

Very good insight.  

Yes, they do love ... . or try to ... . but it is different for them.  Whatever they feel is real.  And that is something very difficult to understand, especially if you don't know that that is what is going on in their head.  I had many many many conversations with my SO where she flat out told me I did things I never did, or said things I never said - regardless if I calmly and rationally explained my point of view/perspective/motivation or whatever.

If she felt it... . then it was true.  And that is something very difficult to wrap your brain around.

Personally, I don't think anyone was attacked in this post - we all have a wide range of perspectives (and may be at different points in our own healing) - so all points are valid.

I know I was at a point earlier where I was so angry.  Angry at her... . angry at myself... . angry at the illness - and ultimately - angry with my mother.

Then that changed a bit to feeling empathy. Then got angry at myself for feeling empathy (after everything my SO did to me).  It is difficult to have empathy for a woman you have been with for almost 20 years when she looks you dead in the eye, tells you she loves you - while all the while she is carrying on a r/s with my replacement.

But then the empathy turned to me.  My focus turned to me - and I was no longer angry or felt like I shouldn't be "selfish".  I finally realized me spending the time, energy and effort I needed to heal me wasn't selfish - it was what has been needed all along.

Yes, I still love her.  Well, at least the memory of her and I.  I think I would like to sit with her again - talk with her again  - love her again.  But, sadly, the reality of it is... . that will never happen.  Even if she does get help, even if she does do whatver she needs to do to get well... . it will never happen.

Mostly because I can't allow it to happen.  Not with her. Not with anyone who exhibits behaviors or mindsets like she has (and I lived under for so very long).  That's not an "I hate her" thing, or she is a monster thing - it just means I am in a place of emotional stability and wellness, and prefer to stay here and grow more and more stronger in it.

I do 'wish' her the best in whatever she does and would like for her to be happy.  But her wellness and happiness ... . not my monkeys any longer.

For a pwBPD, love equals to need. Emotionally stunted at early age, that's all what she knows but it's still not love.

[Isabelle8]

I think it's so key to realize they don't feel love the same way we do.  That's what ultimately helped me.  When you realize that the NC becomes easier.  I'm not saying it hurts less, but your mind is always looking for an explanation and that's what helped me.  It also explained why I would never be fulfilled in that kind of a relationship.  There would never be a balance of love and caring for each other. 

Yes, it's sad. 

[Vindi]

i like the title, and it caught my eye.

I think what Pieter2 is saying, is what happened to "him" I don't think all BPD are exactly the same, I did see some of what Pieter2 wrote to be true, some characteristics. Not all BPDs are alike, maybe similiar... . and I cannot bash Pieter2 for what he said, he is a free man and spoke his mind on his feelings, those are his feelings. And i think moreso the feelings to the gal he was with instead of "every BPD".

Thanks Pieter2 for posting this, it is an eyeopener, some people may not like what you did post. Again, its freedom to post what happened and how you feel, some may disagree to agree on what you said. But i thought it was good that you wrote this. And I am not taking it personally with my BPD cuz some of what you said was very true, not all but alot was true!

[Rapt Reader]

It's true that posters have the right to express their own feelings, and each poster's experience is different. But that is not the same as generalizing all people with BPD as this or that, and declaring specific ways of dealing with every one of them. This site has not only members who are leaving their relationships, but also parents of children with BPD who see their children not as deficient or all-negative. There are members who are electing to stay with their BPD loved ones, working out their relationships and learning how to understand them.

Not all members see their loved ones as "heartless monsters" and neither is that statement true; generalizing our BPD loved ones in a negative light isn't helpful. That isn't really the same thing as just expressing feelings or the facts of a certain situation.

[Octoberfest]

There was originally a different title to this thread, it's possible that there was a duplicate posting and the threads were merged in which case some of the posts may have been lost (like you Madison I lost a post in the original thread too).

And yes, of course we all had a part to play in our R/s, we all have some accountability in what happened (or more aptly, how long we stayed around and let it happen to us).  That isn't the point of this post though. I will say without hesitation, given the reality of being with/around those with the disorder, that we all have the potential to live much happier and healthier lives now, without our BPDex's, than if we stayed with them. For the purposes of detaching from our relationship with our BPDex (something I am still working on over a year out), this post is fantastic.  It even appeals to the wounded pride/hurt that many of us feel over being cheated on by one whom we loved without reservation.  Reading again, even though I have before and have repeated it many times, that IT IS NOT MY FAULT and that it DOES NOT say anything bad about me that my BPDex cheated as much as she possibly could have on me HELPS me

Of course not everything in this post will apply to everyone here.  No post on this board will. I thought this went without saying, since this IS posted in the [L3] LEAVING board, but this post is not about parent-childw/BPD relations, or any other combination for that matter.  The opinions and insight offered in this thread have to do with romantic relationships.  Additionally, of course strict NC is not an option when there are kids involved. I too have been in a spot where I have defended my BPDex, reminded others that she is sick and can't help it, etc... . That is a passing phase.  The reality is our BPDex's are not perfect, sweet lovers who were exposed to some toxin that afflicted them with the disorder.  The disorder is WHO THEY ARE.  It is not a pathogen that is observable by itself, Borderline Personality Disorder is a Name used to describe a set of characteristics/traits that people have.  I used to say, "She's the sweetest most misunderstood girl, I can see the good in her, if only it weren't for the disorder... . ".  That is lying to yourself.  These people did not come down with the disorder like the common cold... . My BPDex simply is a cheater, a liar, an abuser, and a slut.  She has been diagnosed with BPD.  It doesn't really matter the reason as to WHY she does the things she does.  She does them.  Cheating, lying, manipulating to hurt someone, and having sex with your boyfriends close friend and making out with his best friend make you a sh!tty person in my book. By the transitive property, my BPDex is a sh!tty person. Some might argue that she did not intentionally hurt me, she is just doing what she knows.  That is fair, for some of the things she did.  In other instances I have proof/know that she did things for no other reason than to hurt me. At least, when it comes to relationships, they are broken people.

I saw a poster mention that they simply were not equipped or able to give the help to their BPDex that they needed... . Don't beat yourself up like that, I've been doing it for a long time now and it is bullsh!t.  No one can "fix" a person with BPD except for themselves.  There ARE those few out there who want to make a serious change in their life and who enroll in and seriously commit to therapy.  They are vastly outnumbered by those who wander through life, latching on to others and destroying lives, intentionally or not. Besides the point, it is not our jobs to fix someone else's problems.  This is coming from a guy who tied his self-worth and value to trying to "Fix" my BPDex.  I failed to do so because it was an impossible task.  I was destroyed in the process, and I've spent an awful lot of time beating myself up for not making it happen.

These people did not ask for the disorder. Many do not intentionally bring pain and suffering to others.  That does not change the fact that they are a drain on our lives.

So I won't be joining you in your Awesome Town just yet thanks.  I prefer to stay in Reality City.

I feel incredibly sorry for my soon to be ex BPDh. What a waste of potential.  I wonder about the man he could have been, had it not been for the factors that shaped his personality towards BPD. It is a great tragedy that people with BPD wreak such havoc with their lives and the lives of others, they are truly "hungry ghosts", lost souls wandering through a life "all sound and fury, signifying nothing".  I cannot hate people like that, only feel deeply sorry for them and wish them well on their way, whilst I take my painful learnings and go on my way.

I don't mean this as an attack, but you simply cannot claim to live in Reality City and also wonder about who your husband might have been.  In reality, your husband, and my BPDex, and the BPDex's of all those here ARE who they ARE.  It ties back to the idea that when it comes down to it, actions speak louder than words. We are ALL here because of the actions of our BPDex's.  My relationship with my BPDex BEGAN with her cheating; unbeknownst to me, she was still with her boyfriend back in her hometown.  I was told they had split. I share that to make the point that, even if one were to be arrogant enough to suggest I played a role in the at least... . SIX (that is SIX different people, no idea how many times with each) other instances of her cheating, one can't even BEGIN to say that I played a part in that.  That is all her.  Because it is who she is. I didn't ask for that, and it isn't my fault.

Their words were at times the sweetest words any of us had ever heard.  You can claim to be one thing or one way, but ultimately our actions reflect who we really are. Of course there is no blanket profile for a pwBPD... . there are something like 250+ different combinations of traits that are possible to receive a diagnosis. That doesn't mean that those who cheat aren't cheaters, that those who lie are liars, that those who abuse drugs aren't druggies, and those that manipulate and hurt others aren't sh!tty people.

[Skip]

Normally we try to moderate the site fairly and with the least amount of interruption to the members.  We have a clarification, appeal, reinstatement system so that even the slightest staff action can be accounted for, reviewed in a hearing, and reconciled.  The staff is happy to reverse a call after instant relay - sometimes we see things in that mode that a single mod doesn't see in real time.

I'm going to explain this action publicly because it is has gotten messy.  Here are the guidelines for reference: https://bpdfamily.com/content/terms-service

• The original post contains statements that are in violation of the 1.4 and 4.1.
  
  Examples include: BPD's love hurting and abusing, they don't want help, they don't love you, they love revenge, they lie ... . about everything, don't believe the abuse [they experienced], they will cheat on you, they will hold you hostage, and they will do it to hurt you and will love doing it. This was labeled and presented as a teaching slide and the perspective of someone who has gone through the healing process.

• The post was made on two boards, New Members and Leaving in violation of 1,1

• We had a firestorm of responses from members that endorse this, members that were outraged by it, and a flurry of members contacting the staff to resolve it.  It's worth noting that some members here have lost beloved family members to suicide and other means associated with characteristic BPD stress response.

Normally, all of this would have been locked down.  However, there were several newbies involved in the exchange and in keeping with our policy of meeting newcomers where there are*, the staff made an decision to attempted to keep this thread in play by pruning/balancing the supporting and dissenting posts, and redirecting the discussion back to the original posters life and experience a hse is also a newbie.

bpdfamily operates on a mentoring system model.  We expect emotionally raw newcomers and we depend on seasoned seniors to center them emotionally and provide perspective - and certainly never to ile on and inflame.  As we all progress down the healing path, our greatest contribution is to be a voice of emotional maturity to our newbies.

More advanced mentoring skills are taught to Ambassadors with even more advanced skills taught to staff members.  The staff is advised by the 21 site professional members and two long term consultants (A psychiatrist/professor/department head, and a psychologist/researcher/lecturer) and the HON ethics committee.  Since 2007, we have trained 300 members.

ACTION:  We apologize to the 4 members that lost their post in the pruning and the readers.  All posts will be returned for everyone to read in the next few hours.  Pruning is intended for use on the Workshop, Questions and Book Review Boards.

We are closing this thread because we do not feel it is helpful to host a "true or false" discussion on the validity of the over-generalizations raised in the first bullet point above or debate how to most accurately generalize all people with BPD or traits or suspected traits using these points.

We thank the members who were trying to redirect this thread or put others comments/questions in perspective - and those that called for help. Good effort.

We encourage any members that find themselves drifting into "black and white"  thinking with respect to their partner/ex-partner to be reminded that chronic "black and white" thinking is specifically called out in psychology texts as a characteristic distorted thought process often associated with people suffering from personality disorders.  Episodic "black and white" thinking in not necessarily associated with  personality disorders, more often depression, and it is no less distorted.  bpdfamily.com name was inspired by a commitment to help members set aside distortions and urban legends.

And lastly, members are reminded that all staff moderation is subject to appeal or clarification using the appeal or clarification process.  Please keep these discussion offline so that threads aren't hijacked or members focus turned to the staff rather than the members in need. We're human, we blow calls from time to time. But we have a process and we embrace it as a way to learn and grow.

This action is still open to appeal or clarification here:

https://bpdfamily.com/resolve