Things they said that alerted you that they think differently

[maxsterling]

Once again, my jaw just drops at the similarity of some of these things -  Sex as a weapon - yep, I've been accused of using her for sex.  She accuses exes of this, too.  But gee, she also admits that at times in the past she has done her share of sleeping around, yet never considers that her behavior may have hurt someone else.  So my guess is when she accuses me of this, it's projection.  She assumes everyone else is manipulative sexually because she has been.

The "you don't know how to be in a relationship" gets thrown at me whenever she rages.  The fact is she has been in way more relationships than me, and I am guessing that is probably true for most of us dating a pwBPD.  But she uses that as "proof" that I am immature and our relationship issues must be my fault.  I once pointed out that yes I have been in fewer relationships, but also fewer FAILED RELATIONSHIPS. 

Some of the things she said to me early on are red flags only in the context of what I now know.  But way before the first rage there were a few that gave me pause- one more I remember was her telling me that if I ever really wanted to sleep with someone else I could tell her beforehand and it would be okay.  She was basically telling me she didn't believe in monogamy.  A few days later she started telling me that she didn't believe in marriage and only wanted to have a child.  I then decided that this r/s wasn't for me, told her that, and that was the first rage (and the one where I called the police because she threatened to kill herself).

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thicker skin]

I guess we're all evolving and growing with time... .So goal posts can shift some at times... .But not massive shifts, when just as you think you might stick one in the net, along comes a mini Hitler who not only decides to brick up the goal mouth, he's completely rewritten the rules too :-)

I was accused of using my body as a weapon... .So I stopped fuelling that fire, gained a complex and was then informed that I had intimacy issues and was abusing him with my change in confidence.

Like Mace, I needed to be spoken to and treated with love and respect at times other than when he had a carnal urge. Being hated one moment, then expected to meet sexual needs the next, is confusing, to say the least. When it repeatedly happens, as a woman, I started to feel like little more than "a hot little body" as he called me.

[enlighten me]

Hi thicker skin

Its not just women that get complex's about sex. My ex wife left me with plenty. My exgf has added to this.

[formflier]

  I once pointed out that yes I have been in fewer relationships, but also fewer FAILED RELATIONSHIPS. 

How did that go?

[maxsterling]

  I once pointed out that yes I have been in fewer relationships, but also fewer FAILED RELATIONSHIPS. 

How did that go?

Not well 

[empath]

I've been accused of using "sex as a weapon", too. When he was the one that would withhold sex if he was feeling angry (he says he is angry all the time in other contexts). I think it means that I wanted sex when he didn't and he felt 'bad' about that. So, in his mind, I made him feel bad. It didn't mean the same thing to him that other people think it means.

[stuckgirl]

he says some pretty cool ones.

the obey one is definitely a keeper for him

if you work then you're not really leading a life with me,you're working away from me,and in front of everyone i will become your unemployed fiance  

i want you to do everything i tell you

i want you to tell me everything about yourself,everything about your family  

at the resolution of a fight he said that if i took one step away,he would take ten.when i said thats true for me as well,his response was 'that if not fait,siht,it means all you want is revenge'

once while discussing an argument in my family,i became upset and asked him if we could change the subject,he became offended,tol me if i didnt want him involved in my family matters 'that was fine by him'

you make me miserable

i hate you  

i told him some of the particular things he was 'screaming' at me that had hurt,and he said by repeating what he had said to me,i was insulting him very much.

i will set up a meeting between my ex girlfriend and you so you realize how good i had it with them,therefore our problems are completely a fault of your own

disagreement is equal to disrespect for him as well

[HopefulDad]

First date. He asked: "You're so amazing! Why are you still single?"

"I could ask you the same thing."

"Haha. Because I'm an ass!"

"Because I'm attracted to asss."

"Haha, touché, touché."

I never met anyone that ever called himself an ass on a first date. I knew asss, they just weren't that self-aware to warn me up front  .

During the first date I noticed he had a very strong reaction to the story of my mom dying young. I've told it a gazillion times now and he seemed truly hurt by it for a few minutes. In all honesty I liked his sensitivity then, and I still do now  .

Some people take the self-deprecation too far in their humor, so the first-date exchange wouldn't have set off any flags in my head, per se.  Definitely memorable, though.

[mstnghu]

Here are some of the things my BPD (undiagnosed) wife has said in the past or still says regularly:

"You should just leave me now. I'm not worth your time." This was within about a month of dating and I still have no idea what triggered it. At the time I thought I was being a good guy and doing the right thing by being her "rock" and staying with her.

"I feel like you're my soul mate".    This was after only a couple of dates. In the beginning she seemed to have all sorts of things in common with me. I came to realize quickly that she was just telling me what I wanted to hear and we have barely anything in common.

"You don't love or care about me."  She still says this with regularity.

"All you care about is yourself."    ... .despite the fact that I very rarely get any kind of personal time for myself and rarely get to do any of things I enjoy doing anymore. Anytime I want to do anything I enjoy doing I'm given a massive guilt trip.

"Stop being mean to me all the time."    She constantly misconstrues things I say to her and takes many things as personal attacks on her. She has unbelievably thin skin and gets offended about completely irrational things.

"So and so agrees with me that you are"... .insert any terrible character trait/personality flaw here_______    She is constantly fabricating ideas in her head about how terrible of a person I am and will then throw other people under the bus by saying that they are in agreement with her and have also talked to her about me. The fact is other people aren't really saying these bad things about me but since my wife has no logical criticism of me and there's no real validity to her statements she has to make it seem like she's not the only one with these views of me.

I could go on and on

[ziniztar]

First date. He asked: "You're so amazing! Why are you still single?"

"I could ask you the same thing."

"Haha. Because I'm an ass!"

"Because I'm attracted to asss."

"Haha, touché, touché."

I never met anyone that ever called himself an ass on a first date. I knew asss, they just weren't that self-aware to warn me up front  .

During the first date I noticed he had a very strong reaction to the story of my mom dying young. I've told it a gazillion times now and he seemed truly hurt by it for a few minutes. In all honesty I liked his sensitivity then, and I still do now  .

Some people take the self-deprecation too far in their humor, so the first-date exchange wouldn't have set off any flags in my head, per se.  :)efinitely memorable, though.

To me it did, as the date was great. Why would a normal guy say something like that if he's trying to 1) get into a girls pants 2) date with her. Even in humor you should be careful in this situation. It did not make sense at all and it was a sign he had a very dark self image.

Later on of course I also heard the general stuff like "You should leave me now you still can." and "You will get bored of me after a while, I'm sure of it, everyone does." But because by then he had communicated about his diagnoses these were more confirmations of what I had read about than red flags.

[maxsterling]

"All you care about is yourself."    ... .despite the fact that I very rarely get any kind of personal time for myself and rarely get to do any of things I enjoy doing anymore. Anytime I want to do anything I enjoy doing I'm given a massive guilt trip.

Yes!  Same thing.  She will claim I am so self centered because I don't spend every minute with her, and have my own hobbies and interests.  I can't go outside for 10 minutes before she wanders out, asks what I am doing, then declares she is "bored" and asks if I will be doing xyz activity all night.  My perspective here is not that I am spending too much time doing other things, but that she has no ability to do anything for herself.

"So and so agrees with me that you are"... .insert any terrible character trait/personality flaw here_______   She is constantly fabricating ideas in her head about how terrible of a person I am and will then throw other people under the bus by saying that they are in agreement with her and have also talked to her about me. The fact is other people aren't really saying these bad things about me but since my wife has no logical criticism of me and there's no real validity to her statements she has to make it seem like she's not the only one with these views of me.

This is a common thing I hear when she is raging. "I've talked to my other friends and they all agree with me that you were being mean... ."  Maybe she did talk to friends.  Maybe she didn't. If she did, she told them her perspective.  :)id she tell them all the nasty things she said to me?  :)id she tell them she hit me?  :)id she outright lie and said I did something I didn't actually do?  Who knows.  But friend after friend and family member and therapists have told me, "you are in a very abusive relationship - get out."  One friend specifically told me not to bring my GF to her wedding.  I've even had several homeless people come up to me and tell me I look sad and ask me what is going on.  Honest.  And yet I never bring up to my GF all the things my friends have to say about her - it's not important.  She's using this as a weapon to try and convince me that I am the one with the problem.

[mstnghu]

"All you care about is yourself."    ... .despite the fact that I very rarely get any kind of personal time for myself and rarely get to do any of things I enjoy doing anymore. Anytime I want to do anything I enjoy doing I'm given a massive guilt trip.

Yes!  Same thing.  She will claim I am so self centered because I don't spend every minute with her, and have my own hobbies and interests.  I can't go outside for 10 minutes before she wanders out, asks what I am doing, then declares she is "bored" and asks if I will be doing xyz activity all night.  My perspective here is not that I am spending too much time doing other things, but that she has no ability to do anything for herself.

"So and so agrees with me that you are"... .insert any terrible character trait/personality flaw here_______   She is constantly fabricating ideas in her head about how terrible of a person I am and will then throw other people under the bus by saying that they are in agreement with her and have also talked to her about me. The fact is other people aren't really saying these bad things about me but since my wife has no logical criticism of me and there's no real validity to her statements she has to make it seem like she's not the only one with these views of me.

This is a common thing I hear when she is raging. "I've talked to my other friends and they all agree with me that you were being mean... ."  Maybe she did talk to friends.  Maybe she didn't. If she did, she told them her perspective.  :)id she tell them all the nasty things she said to me?  :)id she tell them she hit me?  :)id she outright lie and said I did something I didn't actually do?  Who knows.  But friend after friend and family member and therapists have told me, "you are in a very abusive relationship - get out."  One friend specifically told me not to bring my GF to her wedding.  I've even had several homeless people come up to me and tell me I look sad and ask me what is going on.  Honest.  And yet I never bring up to my GF all the things my friends have to say about her - it's not important.  She's using this as a weapon to try and convince me that I am the one with the problem.

I definitely feel your pain too! I can't even step outside to take out the trash without my wife asking me where I'm going. She's constantly asking me what I'm doing or about to do. It drives me crazy to know end because I just see it as her trying to control my every move. I can barely get anything done around the house when she's there because every 2 minutes I hear "Baaaaabbbbbe can you do this or do that?" She'll call me in all the way from the backyard to grab something for her that's 2 feet away from her! If I tell her it's ridiculous that she always wants me to do things that she's perfectly capable of doing for herself her response is usually something like "you're my husband, you should want to be helpful to your wife!". The manipulation is unbelievable and in her mind she's being completely rational. Often times I feel completely suffocated. I'm not allowed to have any kind of life of my own without being called self-centered. Lately, my wife has even started to use our son as a pawn and makes it seem as if anytime I try to do anything for myself I'm also neglecting him!

I've also had to do some serious damage control with my friends. I have a close-knit group of great friends who I've known most of my life. My wife starting trying to sabotage those relationships within a couple months of dating. Most of my friends have a lot of animosity toward my wife. I've also found out from family members that my wife has said some pretty bad things about me when I haven't been around to defend myself... .things that were completely untrue. My wife loves to project and is constantly attributing her negative personality traits to me, even though they don't in any way apply to me. Fortunately, my friends/family are smart enough to see through her lies.

[HopefulDad]

First date. He asked: "You're so amazing! Why are you still single?"

"I could ask you the same thing."

"Haha. Because I'm an ass!"

"Because I'm attracted to asss."

"Haha, touché, touché."

I never met anyone that ever called himself an ass on a first date. I knew asss, they just weren't that self-aware to warn me up front  .

During the first date I noticed he had a very strong reaction to the story of my mom dying young. I've told it a gazillion times now and he seemed truly hurt by it for a few minutes. In all honesty I liked his sensitivity then, and I still do now  .

Some people take the self-deprecation too far in their humor, so the first-date exchange wouldn't have set off any flags in my head, per se.  :)efinitely memorable, though.

To me it did, as the date was great. Why would a normal guy say something like that if he's trying to 1) get into a girls pants 2) date with her. Even in humor you should be careful in this situation. It did not make sense at all and it was a sign he had a very dark self image.

Later on of course I also heard the general stuff like "You should leave me now you still can." and "You will get bored of me after a while, I'm sure of it, everyone does." But because by then he had communicated about his diagnoses these were more confirmations of what I had read about than red flags.

I'm cool with dark humor as long as it doesn't become a theme.  Somebody makes a dark self-deprecating comment to me once and it would come across as darkly funny.  A second time and I'm thinking, "Okay, it was funny once, but enough already."  A third time and now the flags are flying.  His repetitiveness on the "I'm not worthy" topic was without a doubt a red flag for anyone in your situation.

[empath]

I was talking with him recently about marriage and love. He thinks that love is needing the other person in some way.

If I am working at home in a different part of the house, he 'feels' that I am "hiding" from him.

[HopefulDad]

"All you care about is yourself."    ... .despite the fact that I very rarely get any kind of personal time for myself and rarely get to do any of things I enjoy doing anymore. Anytime I want to do anything I enjoy doing I'm given a massive guilt trip.

Yes!  Same thing.  She will claim I am so self centered because I don't spend every minute with her, and have my own hobbies and interests.  I can't go outside for 10 minutes before she wanders out, asks what I am doing, then declares she is "bored" and asks if I will be doing xyz activity all night.  My perspective here is not that I am spending too much time doing other things, but that she has no ability to do anything for herself.

"So and so agrees with me that you are"... .insert any terrible character trait/personality flaw here_______   She is constantly fabricating ideas in her head about how terrible of a person I am and will then throw other people under the bus by saying that they are in agreement with her and have also talked to her about me. The fact is other people aren't really saying these bad things about me but since my wife has no logical criticism of me and there's no real validity to her statements she has to make it seem like she's not the only one with these views of me.

This is a common thing I hear when she is raging. "I've talked to my other friends and they all agree with me that you were being mean... ."  Maybe she did talk to friends.  Maybe she didn't. If she did, she told them her perspective.  :)id she tell them all the nasty things she said to me?  :)id she tell them she hit me?  :)id she outright lie and said I did something I didn't actually do?  Who knows.  But friend after friend and family member and therapists have told me, "you are in a very abusive relationship - get out."  One friend specifically told me not to bring my GF to her wedding.  I've even had several homeless people come up to me and tell me I look sad and ask me what is going on.  Honest.  And yet I never bring up to my GF all the things my friends have to say about her - it's not important.  She's using this as a weapon to try and convince me that I am the one with the problem.

I can relate to all of this (including quotes)... .well, except the homeless people part.  My favorite was when she told me her own private therapist "agrees with her".  I doubt they really do as any decent therapist knows they are getting only one side of a story.  But even if the therapist did, of course they'll agree with a carefully crafted half-story.  When we've been MC and she tells her side of things, she routinely leaves out all of her bad behavior.  With one story in particular, she's done this now with two MCs, with my mother and who knows who else.

[maxsterling]

Yeah, I've gotten the "love means mutual dependence" definition from her as well.  That floored me.  I responded by saying that love should be about mutual support, not mutual dependence.

[formflier]

  I once pointed out that yes I have been in fewer relationships, but also fewer FAILED RELATIONSHIPS. 

How did that go?

Not well 

Back before I knew about BPD... .I said some similar things that resulted in pulling the pin on a nuke.

Seemed like the right thing to say at the time... .but looking back on it... .especially now... .I wonder what I was thinking.

[formflier]

 

I had forgotten about referencing friends and experts to prove that she is right.

I almost never do that... .and I used to try to cut her off from doing that... because I don't want to be married to her friends or experts... .I'm married to her... .I care what she thinks. 

Somehow... .that didn't sink in as a good thing.

"Let's go talk to xyz... .and see if they would put up with you doing xyz if you were their husband... "... .is usually a good one.

Me then saying I want to take her up on the offer is interesting... .because she finds a way to bob and weave out of it.  Or claims she already knows what they will say... .so she doesn't need to go talk to them.

[SybilVane]

I have a BIG collection:

- Don't you see that when I insult you I am insulting myself and I want to vomit?

- You know why you can't reply when I insult you? Because when you look at the mirror, is  my image that you see.

- You are the only person in the world who can understand me.

- You are my bigger mistake

- You are the only woman who I can imagine as the mother of my children

-Don't you see that everytime I perceive you think I am a monster I have to pretend to be one?

- Please, you know it was a reaction, sorry, sorry, don't you understand I always react with my heart because I love you so so much?

-You only use your mind you never act with your heart! I always act with my heart! You're a machine!

- Are you asking what you could do for me? Lick my shoes and maybe I could f##ck you one last time.

- You will never find anyone as special like me, I am (his name)!

- I want to fusion myself with you

-You know that even if I wanted, I could never stop loving you, I could follow you wherever you go.

- I treated you badly to see how you could react

(as you can see, some of these sentences are REALLY pathologic)

[enlighten me]

It didn't make me think at the time but now I understand what she was saying.

"Having my daughter was the best thing I ever did. It saved me"

I now realise that her life was such a mess that having her daughter meant she stopped all the wild nights out and was forced to start controlling herself.

[ziniztar]

I now realise that her life was such a mess that having her daughter meant she stopped all the wild nights out and was forced to start controlling herself.

I read a nice quote somewhere. Progress is beig made when "impossible" collides with "imperative/required/necessary". It's one of the reasons why I am busting my ass making clear to my dBPDbf he can't overload his week because he's afraid of the feeling of being alone and not being active. He must feel and understand I won't tolerate only seeing him once a week for a few hours. I know that our relationship by now is strong enough to demand that - his love for me and need to stay with me will drive his progress. (I hope). 

[Moselle]

"You need to fix all the damage you've done during 14 years of marriage"

"You need to feel as guilty as I am sad"

"You have destroyed my life, and the children's lives"

"I'm giving you a second chance to prove yourself, because everyone deserves a second chance"

"If you wont let me have any more children, I'm going to get two puppies instead" (Really!. We have 3 children already. This was when I realised she had massive attachment issues)

[earthgirl]

Biggest red flags:

1.  Lying when the truth will do.

2.  Having different "personas" depending upon who he is around

3.  Insatiable need for drama ALL THE TIME

Regarding the need for drama... .I think my pwBPD's favorite question of all time is, "What's wrong?"  He will ask this at least once a day.  He will ask this when there's nothing wrong, whatsoever, and I am happy and content.  When he doesn't get the answer he wants, he keeps poking at me, asking over and over, saying "I don't believe you" until I get so tired of feeling invalidated, I get upset.  Then he wins:  something is now wrong. *sigh*

[mace17]

I guess we're all evolving and growing with time... .So goal posts can shift some at times... .But not massive shifts, when just as you think you might stick one in the net, along comes a mini Hitler who not only decides to brick up the goal mouth, he's completely rewritten the rules too :-)

I was accused of using my body as a weapon... .So I stopped fuelling that fire, gained a complex and was then informed that I had intimacy issues and was abusing him with my change in confidence.

Like Mace, I needed to be spoken to and treated with love and respect at times other than when he had a carnal urge. Being hated one moment, then expected to meet sexual needs the next, is confusing, to say the least. When it repeatedly happens, as a woman, I started to feel like little more than "a hot little body" as he called me.

I tried to explain to H that I wasn't using sex as a weapon, just that sometimes when I wasn't feeling close or loved or we had been arguing, I wouldn't feel in the mood.  I too need to feel loved and respected to want sex.  He told me that there was something wrong with me because most women don't feel that way and don't connect feelings and emotions with sex.   

[peiper]

Mine told me once that she thought Id be the one she could always count on being around. As for sex, she used it as a weapon. We were walking down a street in Maui a month ago and I said let me walk on the outside so I can watch out for you. She replyed that I was being controling and she would walk where she wanted to.

[formflier]

-Don't you see that everytime I perceive you think I am a monster I have to pretend to be one?

I think we have the winner! 

Anyone else want to vote for the best one.

Best being an odd way to put it... .

[enlighten me]

Another one my exgf used was "Im not a silly little girl that plays games"

Unfortunately she was 

[Love Is Not Enough]

It didn't make me think at the time but now I understand what she was saying.

"Having my daughter was the best thing I ever did. It saved me"

I now realise that her life was such a mess that having her daughter meant she stopped all the wild nights out and was forced to start controlling herself.

Mine too

[ziniztar]

Regarding the need for drama... .I think my pwBPD's favorite question of all time is, "What's wrong?"  He will ask this at least once a day.  He will ask this when there's nothing wrong, whatsoever, and I am happy and content.  When he doesn't get the answer he wants, he keeps poking at me, asking over and over, saying "I don't believe you" until I get so tired of feeling invalidated, I get upset.  Then he wins:  something is now wrong. *sigh*

Very sorry but it made me chuckle a little bit. I can relate to you so much...  

[ziniztar]

-Don't you see that everytime I perceive you think I am a monster I have to pretend to be one?

I think we have the winner! 

Anyone else want to vote for the best one.

Best being an odd way to put it... .