"I realize I allowed it"

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I read over and over people saying how they "realize they allowed their BPD ex's behavior" and that they were a "contributing factor" to how the relationship went.  I get it.  There's some truth to that.  But I'm going to give myself a big break over that stuff.  My ex wife used to even use that against me, telling me "well you allowed me to!"  Is that not evil?  Sorry, I'm not going to beat myself over the head with that any more, and here's why.

Professional therapists get sucked in and duped by these people.  Their manipulation, blame, and projection schemes are so diverse, so automatic, and so pervasive that we didn't stand a chance.  Now, I realize that some people on these boards may disagree with that.  Maybe their BPD partner isn't as severe.  Maybe they have some kind of iron spirit or something like that.  But it wasn't that way with me and my ex.  After many, many years, I finally realized (aside from inconsequential things) that there was only really one result I could actually enforce:  I'm done with the relationship.  The only option was to end it.  Everything led up to that.  Thousands of tiny decisions, tiny things, small situations.  She didn't care about consequences.  She didn't care about what I wanted or didn't want.  To tell her "No" meant nothing.  She would find a way to do what she wanted and would walk over me to get it, even if it meant finding another man who would help her.  The only thing I could do was save myself and leave.

So, for example, for her to say that I "allowed" her to sleep all day, stay up all night talking on Facebook or to some new guy, and not take care of her own kids is ridiculous.  I stopped bringing her snacks, though she would manipulate me to do it (by claiming that she was ill and couldn't get up... .which left me constantly confused and unsure) or just get the kids to bring them to her.  I "allowed" her to not drive the kids to school by driving them, myself?  How exactly was I supposed to make her bring them to school, especially when she demonstrated on more than one occasion that it really didn't bother her that they missed school?  Some days, I refused to take them to school because it should be her job because I was working.  She just wouldn't get up. So, yes, I drove them.  I drove them because their mother would not, and my kids needed to go to school. 

The only thing I could do to end the madness was leave.  So, I really am going to give myself a big break.  Sure, there were some things I did that were overindulgent of her, but by and large it didn't matter.  She always did whatever she wanted and didn't care who it effected.  I wish I left much sooner.  The only way I "allowed" anything was by staying with a crazy person and listening to anything that came out of her warped little mouth.  And my reasons for doing so were not all bad.  I wanted things to work out.  I wanted to believe that maybe she was right and I just needed to basically shut up and let her work things out herself.  So, I gave her chances and time and everything I had to make the family and relationship work.  Hindsight is 20/20, but I give myself a lot of credit for this, not criticism.  I endured much... .and I protected my kids and held down my job and maintained most of my sanity.  *high fives* to myself.

[OutOfEgypt]

I read over and over people saying how they "realize they allowed their BPD ex's behavior" and that they were a "contributing factor" to how the relationship went.  I get it.  There's some truth to that.  But I'm going to give myself a big break over that stuff.  My ex wife used to even use that against me, telling me "well you allowed me to!"  Is that not evil?  Sorry, I'm not going to beat myself over the head with that any more, and here's why.

Professional therapists get sucked in and duped by these people.  Their manipulation, blame, and projection schemes are so diverse, so automatic, and so pervasive that we didn't stand a chance.  Now, I realize that some people on these boards may disagree with that.  Maybe their BPD partner isn't as severe.  Maybe they have some kind of iron spirit or something like that.  But it wasn't that way with me and my ex.  After many, many years, I finally realized (aside from inconsequential things) that there was only really one result I could actually enforce:  I'm done with the relationship.  The only option was to end it.  Everything led up to that.  Thousands of tiny decisions, tiny things, small situations.  She didn't care about consequences.  She didn't care about what I wanted or didn't want.  To tell her "No" meant nothing.  She would find a way to do what she wanted and would walk over me to get it, even if it meant finding another man who would help her.  The only thing I could do was save myself and leave.

So, for example, for her to say that I "allowed" her to sleep all day, stay up all night talking on Facebook or to some new guy, and not take care of her own kids is ridiculous.  I stopped bringing her snacks, though she would manipulate me to do it (by claiming that she was ill and couldn't get up... .which left me constantly confused and unsure) or just get the kids to bring them to her.  I "allowed" her to not drive the kids to school by driving them, myself?  How exactly was I supposed to make her bring them to school, especially when she demonstrated on more than one occasion that it really didn't bother her that they missed school?  Some days, I refused to take them to school because it should be her job because I was working.  She just wouldn't get up. So, yes, I drove them.  I drove them because their mother would not, and my kids needed to go to school. 

The only thing I could do to end the madness was leave.  So, I really am going to give myself a big break.  Sure, there were some things I did that were overindulgent of her, but by and large it didn't matter.  She always did whatever she wanted and didn't care who it effected.  I wish I left much sooner.  The only way I "allowed" anything was by staying with a crazy person and listening to anything that came out of her warped little mouth.  And my reasons for doing so were not all bad.  I wanted things to work out.  I wanted to believe that maybe she was right and I just needed to basically shut up and let her work things out herself.  So, I gave her chances and time and everything I had to make the family and relationship work.  Hindsight is 20/20, but I give myself a lot of credit for this, not criticism.  I endured much... .and I protected my kids and held down my job and maintained most of my sanity.  *high fives* to myself.

[Eric1]

My Ex used to say - I need someone who can tell me 'NO' or - You can't make things easy for me.

But, i'd tell her NO, and she would flip. I wouldn't make things easier for her, and she would flip.

[OutOfEgypt]

Yup.  Just another way to blame us.  Very familiar.  When I actually had ways to enforce boundaries, she would flip out.  Like, when I began the eviction process to get her out of my house because she was dragging out leaving... .boy, she did not like that.  I was "mean".  

My ex would tell me that she wanted a "man" (you know... a "real man" who would stand up to her, but that was a lie.  She wanted a man she could control.  Telling me that was just another way to squash my self-esteem and control me more.  I did stand up to her... .especially at the beginning and later in the relationship.  But there is no such things as a man who will stand up to her and have it actually *mean anything* to her except for a man who says "get the #$ out" and makes it happen.  There.  She got her wish.  HAHA

[brokenbutalive]

I agree with you. It used to bother me when people (the very few people that actually knew the nature of our relationship) would say stuff like "just stand up to her... .Whatever she gives you give it straight back". Well aside from the obvious answer that I couldn't just hit her back whenever she slapped me, how exactly do I stand up to her? These are not rational people that will back down in the face of a logical argument. They twist and twist and twist until they somehow manage to come out on top. How are you supposed to reason with someone like that. Most of the time mine wouldn't even argue at all. The second she heard anything back from me that was anything other than a grovelling apology for some trivial misdemeanour she would go silent, often for days, sometimes weeks until I couldn't take it anymore and caved in. What the hell can you do with that, other than as you said walk away. That was the only power I had left and so my only regret is not doing it sooner. I didn't have your reasons for staying ie family. So yes, high fives to you.

[OutOfEgypt]

Yes, brokenbutalive.  Exactly.  I've heard that from a lot of people.  They just don't get it, though.  They really don't. 

[OutOfEgypt]

We're dealing with people who really respond to only one language... ."get the #$ out, and here's how I'm going to make that happen."  Even saying "I think we should break up" would mean nothing.  She'd take her sweet time moving out, still seeing if I would be around to help her or get attention from.  Like life's a party and all the drinks are on me.

[Eric1]

Mine was never diagnosed. After reading up on what i experianced all the signs pointed to BPD. Shes recycled and triangluated me with another guy & has now gone back to him. She hasn't contacted me for over 2 months now, and i'm now thinking, that if she has gone back to him, is happy and its working out, that she isn't really BPD. Anyone else feel this?

[brokenbutalive]

"She didn't care about consequences".

That line jumped out at me. Mine was an utterly lopsided relationship. All the power was hers and there was zero respect for me. She knew how much I adored her and so she could get away with literally anything. If I complained about her treatment she would say "well go away then". The message was very clear. "You need me. I don't need you. So I'm gona do whatever I want and your gona put up with it. If you don't you'll lose me and live the rest of your life alone while I go on and meet someone else and live happily ever after". (This was coming from a 35 year old woman who still lived with her parents and didn't have any other friends!).

[OutOfEgypt]

Eric,

I used to wonder that.  But after enough years and recycles, I know that it isn't the case.  Besides, I remember her lover coming and talking to me because he was so hurt that she was throwing him away and coming back to me (again... haha).  He told me things that were really enlightening... .like how she seemed to be so into him at first, and then she would turn on him and it's like he was nothing to her... .after he had made her out to be everything to him.

Rest assured, she's pathological.  I was told this years ago, but I didn't believe it (because I thought I was just not good enough) and I see it even more clearly now.  She even "triangulated" me with her own son.  He's been chasing her for years.  Still is.

[OutOfEgypt]

brokenbutalive,

That line jumped out at me. Mine was an utterly lopsided relationship. All the power was hers and there was zero respect for me. She knew how much I adored her and so she could get away with literally anything.

Yup.  And they do, don't they?  Mine changed her tune verbally over the years.  For a while she told me "You'll never please any woman.  You're not a man.  No woman would ever want you."  Eventually she realized that was hurtful and would tell me, "You could find someone else, you know."  But her attitude and actions and position in the relationship told me, "I don't need you, emotionally.  You need me.  You are useful to me, but you are replaceable.  And you are replaceable by someone better, which won't be hard for me to find."

Of course, that is only half true.  The truth is that they *do* need us.  They need us to unload their garbage onto.  They need someone to control and blame so that they can survive.  They are like leeches.  They suck the life force out of others and put their death onto them so that they don't have to carry it.

When my ex came back to me and started going to therapy, I thought it was a new chance.  Everything seemed so wonderful.  She was in the intial phase of the relationship again... .idealization.  And then once she knew she "had" me, had control, and secured it by moving back in, the switch flipped back to a totally one-way relationship.  When I was breaking up with her and making her leave my house, she claimed she couldn't because she was thousands of dollars in debt over the course of 9 months.  I couldn't believe it.  She had almost no bills, had her own income from a job, and got money from me per our divorce.  I only asked her to help with groceries from the child support money.  She spent all the money I gave her for spousal and child support (thinking I was helping her save for college) and all the money from her job and managed to get into thousands more in debt on her credit card.  Trips, clothes... .etc.  She would spend thousands on things for my house and property even though I told her not to.  So, when we were breaking up I asked her about it, and she said it was because she felt "safe" again, because I always made her feel safe... .(i.e.  "you actually love me, and I'm going to take advantage of that in order to do whatever I want with zero boundaries or limits"

It is impossible to have a relationship with someone like this.  Once they know they have your love solidified, they will rape you for everything you have.

[brokenbutalive]

Mine was never diagnosed. After reading up on what i experianced all the signs pointed to BPD. Shes recycled and triangluated me with another guy & has now gone back to him. She hasn't contacted me for over 2 months now, and i'm now thinking, that if she has gone back to him, is happy and its working out, that she isn't really BPD. Anyone else feel this?

Yes I've felt that way before and to be honest mate I've wrestled with the thought of contacting her previous boyfriend before me and comparing notes about her with him. This was I guy she had claimed cheated on her repeatedly, though I'm not sure I believe that anymore. He also apparently insinuated that she was bipolar. I'm more inclined to believe that bit 

Rest assured you aren't crazy and she isn't happy. And even if she is then her boyfriend certainly isn't

[OutOfEgypt]

Yes I've felt that way before and to be honest mate I've wrestled with the thought of contacting her previous boyfriend before me and comparing notes about her with him

I have, too!  Haha.  I wound up deciding not to.  Enough people that have known her from her past have given me enough verbal cues, when I meet them and they find out we aren't together anymore, to let me know that everybody kinda knows she's crazy.

She did tell me, early on in the relationship, that her ex boyfriend told her that she was "insatiable."  Never satisfied.  They were only together for about 2 years and did not live together.  He got out while he could, but he probably still hates her.

[brokenbutalive]

Yes I've felt that way before and to be honest mate I've wrestled with the thought of contacting her previous boyfriend before me and comparing notes about her with him

I have, too!  Haha.  I wound up deciding not to.  Enough people that have known her from her past have given me enough verbal cues, when I meet them and they find out we aren't together anymore, to let me know that everybody kinda knows she's crazy.

She did tell me, early on in the relationship, that her ex boyfriend told her that she was "insatiable."  Never satisfied.  They were only together for about 2 years and did not live together.  He got out while he could, but he probably still hates her.

Yes OOE I'm not gona do it either, tempting as it is. I found him on Facebook and everything, was getting ready to prepare the message when I stopped myself. I've seen more than enough evidence with my own eyes. I don't need confirmation. I'm trusting my own instincts on this one.

[OutOfEgypt]

Haha.  There's a sense of comeradery between people who have suffered with people like this, so I imagine it would be even greater if we could share war stories and "high-five" about the SAME person.  But yeah... .probably not worth it.  Besides, if my ex found out I'm sure it would both needlessly provoke her and make her feel alive at the same time.  No thanks.

[OutOfEgypt]

I love all the nicknames and avatars we have on this board.  You can tell we have been through the wringer, eh?

OutofEgypt - a story of breaking the bonds of slavery through the shedding of blood, being led out of the house of bondage and onto a long journey through the desert that leads to the promised land.  My avatar -a lighthouse, showing my tenacity in weathering the storm and my undying resolve to make my light known regardless of how dark and rainy the skies!

brokenbutalive - a story of survival, acknowledging great trauma and pain but highlighting the fact that you are still standing.  However, written in all lower-case letters, showing that you don't wear your survival like a badge.  You just want live happily, simply, and peacefully.  And of course, your avatar is a Phoenix.  Nothing more fitting than that!

Eric1... .you should change your name to something like... ."EricTheConqueror" or "EricTheBold" or "EricLivesAgain!"   Go, Eric!  Go, Eric!  Rise up, my friend!  Rise up!

[brokenbutalive]

Ha ha! Nice one OOE. Nothing like this family of ours to put a smile on my face!

[OutOfEgypt]

haha

A song from my youth comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHR-rzUjCzU

[StillAlive]

Much like yourself, the only way I could end the madness was leave. I do not know whether or not you immediately chose to walk away once this fact became apparent to you. But you certainly did the right from for yourself and I commend you for that. I have to admit that I felt a great sense of disappointment to come here looking for support and instead receive imposed criticism and not credit, especially while being bombarded with donation requests. So it was certainly am relief to read this discussion today. I just hope this discussion is not deleted alongside my statement that violence is a choice and I am not responsible for individuals who make the choice to be violent.

[Eric1]

She would come back to me and say 'I love you so much , I've never loved anyone as much as you, I know I've been a b___ in the past, but we can make it work'

3 days later

'Sorry, it's just not right'

Then she goes back to the other bloke.

[OutOfEgypt]

Yup.  Pretty much.  They pit one against the other, too.  My ex always has a rejected one on the back-burner who is still chasing her, and a new one who she's giving all her attention to (and getting attention from).

Another fitting song from my youth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39sGP9Xy58s

[Changingman]

I agree with Out_of_E,

The lying, manipulation, mirroring, broken, pity party, lost girl, happened from the very moment i met her. The end for me was like 'The Matrix' moment of waking up in a machine world.

I had been asleep, she sets up her life to enable herself to do these weird BPD things. The drinking, obsession with work and how hard it was, sex to distract, crying to gain time and soften me, the appeals to my good nature, the declarations of love, the 'trust me' Bull. If I started to question her motives she would be indignant and shocked I would think that of her.

Always off handedly made sure i knew there was guys around who fancied her, why wouldn't they? she had a great body.

She was soft then hard, she kept me off balance, lacking in sleep, we lived in a world where she would get more sensible with her drinking and drugs and everyone around was hurtful to her, she kept having 'accidents' that I'd have to save her from, she was sweet, kinda funny and seemingly talented, then filthy sexual, then messed up, she seemed nice to my kids1 What an act.

Why would anyone live like this? She was beyond crazy to live like this. the better we did the more she panicked. To realise she has never and would never love? That the ability to love is not universal! Is that true?

If she hated me why not leave? If I tried to end it she would cry and plead. She wanted to be a successful woman, great! we started to do really well, why on earth would she keep destroy a beautiful thing, she was achieving her dreams?

When I said no and was firm, she found ways around it, she punished me, I realise now, behind my back. 'She was so full of emotion' my daughter said after.

Lord, I realise my Mother had it, it all made sense, my mother couldn't love.

Each little step is so subtle, she would grab me back with a confused attitude. She let me believe she was like me.

Mine knew what she was doing, so cunning... .She would tell my friends in confidence how much she loved me when I was in the toilet or wherever knowing they would tell me. This is Psychopathic, do they know they are doing it? Damn right they do... .everything, they know they are harming you... they don't care. They really don't care, unless it impacts on them.

Push/Pull behaviours are just too confusing.

When I put my foot down about her taking some responsibility for her actions, and she realised I would not take any of her manipulations, including sex... .she started an affair, tormented me behind my back, smeared me to her work friends, made people think I might be abussive and left skid marks running out the door when I started to find out.

We here, have a new awareness, Who would know?

[OutOfEgypt]

Changingman,

Sorry you went through that, but it sounds about right!

[Changingman]

Thanks Out_of_E,

Same old, same old ...


Abusive people don't come with guns and sticks, they arm themselves with tears and pity.

"He/she seemed like such a normal nice guy/girl"

Demons hide amongst us.

Ugh, I need a shower

[OutOfEgypt]

haha!

[Changingman]

Ha!