Why do they shut you down and refuse discussion about things?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Just reviewing all the crap that went down the past month in my quiet moments. When I would ask things like, why did you just walk out on my boys? You promised them a car, money, you took all their help for free. No answer. Why did you take dinners and parties on my 86 year old mother's tab if you had no intention of staying? No answer. How am I supposed to cover your rent now just because you got your undies in a bundle? No answer. Do they really not care how they hurt people? Or do they not answer because dealing with the tornado they caused is too painful? Closest I got to an answer was,  "Your children were not the problem. It was the mother. Hello?" How does that address what I said?

[topknot]

Just reviewing all the crap that went down the past month in my quiet moments. When I would ask things like, why did you just walk out on my boys? You promised them a car, money, you took all their help for free. No answer. Why did you take dinners and parties on my 86 year old mother's tab if you had no intention of staying? No answer. How am I supposed to cover your rent now just because you got your undies in a bundle? No answer. Do they really not care how they hurt people? Or do they not answer because dealing with the tornado they caused is too painful? Closest I got to an answer was,  "Your children were not the problem. It was the mother. Hello?" How does that address what I said?

[Tincup]

Topknot--I wish I had a good answer for you.  The refusing to discuss things was probably the part that had me hung up the most.  To me it seemed like she was unable to discuss things because it would mean taking some responsibility for her actions, and that was something that she could not do.  All that would happen if I would push her to discuss something is it would get all twisted around to be my fault. 

So I totally feel where you are coming from, you are not alone.

tincup

[BacknthSaddle]

I suppose the easiest way to think about it is as a very primitive defense against shame, a form of dissociation.  Reminding them of such things provokes shame, which redirects there thoughts toward their core shame, their belief that they are bad people, without value to the core.  The confrontation of such things is too painful, so they dissociate, go somewhere else, so they don't even have to look the issue in the face. 

In the past 4 months my ex called me a p**sy, a judgmental piece of s**t, told me I was so unattractive she didn't want to touch me, told me I was crazy, obsessive, had a "serious problem," that she was never serious about me, and on and on.  I finally went NC.  Two days ago she texts me and says "I miss my best friend."  Is it reasonable or normal for a person to think that someone to whom they've said such things would remain their best friend?  Someone who they once claimed to "love more than air?" Of course not.  But she has no insight into this at all.  She's blind to her contribution to the current state of affairs. And, were I to bring it up, she would either call me more names or go completely blank.  There is no winning, no satisfaction.  Accepting that it is out of your control and avoiding contact are the only solutions. 

[Mutt]

Just reviewing all the crap that went down the past month in my quiet moments. When I would ask things like, why did you just walk out on my boys? You promised them a car, money, you took all their help for free. No answer. Why did you take dinners and parties on my 86 year old mother's tab if you had no intention of staying? No answer. How am I supposed to cover your rent now just because you got your undies in a bundle? No answer. Do they really not care how they hurt people? Or do they not answer because dealing with the tornado they caused is too painful? Closest I got to an answer was,  "Your children were not the problem. It was the mother. Hello?" How does that address what I said?

I think some of it is due to their emotional immaturity. You're dealing with a person that has the emotional maturity of a young child, trapped in an adults body. I'm sorry for her lack of answers.

[sherlock3]

There probably was no rational answer on his part and he knows it. My BPDexgf would not answer straight forward logical questions like: "why did you do that?" For how argumentative she was, there were times that I would confront her and read her the riot act and she would just listen. Not hangup or walk away as she often did. I feel these are the times when it sinks in how ridiculous they are and they have no answer. Even these severely broken people can look at themselves at times and rationalize that what they are doing makes no sense. I think these are the times that you have the upper hand (doesn't happen often) and they realize what a pile of human waste they are. Take some solace in getting no answer. This is the time that they feel shame and self hate. Unfortunaltely it doesn't inspire them to do something about it.

[Ventus2ct]

My word, another trait I thought was unique in my ex! Exactly the same thing would happen with her, if you asked a question, she'd shrug it off, ignore it, deviate around an answer in a big circle, so you'd never know if you had an answer or not or you'd end up guilty for even asking the question in the first place by the time she'd finished with you!

I will add though the only way I could get her to see something from my point occasionally, which I learnt right at the end was to simply say to her

"I stated that instead of being completely negative and critical of me that there were in fact some positive aspects to me"

I simply said "How would you feel if I did the same to you"

She did acknowledge this but only once and did take her 10 minutes to work it out.

[Emelie Emelie]

I suppose the easiest way to think about it is as a very primitive defense against shame, a form of dissociation.  Reminding them of such things provokes shame, which redirects there thoughts toward their core shame, their belief that they are bad people, without value to the core.  The confrontation of such things is too painful, so they dissociate, go somewhere else, so they don't even have to look the issue in the face.



This is the only thing that helps me understand this.  The dissociation.  He cannot deal with the shame of what he did to me.  So he blamed me and "goes somewhere else".  We spoke a couple of weeks after the breakup and he said it was too painful to think about me, "So I don't think about you."  I believe it.  Wish I could stop thinking about him.

[Arminius]

I suppose the easiest way to think about it is as a very primitive defense against shame, a form of dissociation.  Reminding them of such things provokes shame, which redirects there thoughts toward their core shame, their belief that they are bad people, without value to the core.  The confrontation of such things is too painful, so they dissociate, go somewhere else, so they don't even have to look the issue in the face. 

In the past 4 months my ex called me a p**sy, a judgmental piece of s**t, told me I was so unattractive she didn't want to touch me, told me I was crazy, obsessive, had a "serious problem," that she was never serious about me, and on and on.  I finally went NC.  Two days ago she texts me and says "I miss my best friend."  Is it reasonable or normal for a person to think that someone to whom they've said such things would remain their best friend?  Someone who they once claimed to "love more than air?" Of course not.  But she has no insight into this at all.  She's blind to her contribution to the current state of affairs. And, were I to bring it up, she would either call me more names or go completely blank.  There is no winning, no satisfaction.  Accepting that it is out of your control and avoiding contact are the only solutions. 

Totally relate to this. Could be mine your referring to. Peace be with you.

[maternal]

This behavior drove me CRAZY.

It was part of the reason that I stopped sticking up for myself, that I stopped communicating much of anything important to me at all.  It fell on deaf ears.  Of course, then it became "you don't talk to me."  So frustrating... .

I thank every god ever that I am away from that sh!t now.

[Hopeless777]

I asked my PBDw is consider the following before we said anything and she agreed:

1)  Is what I am going to say pleasing to God?

2)  Is what I am going to say helpful to my marriage?

3)  Is what I'm going to say helpful to my spouse?

If all yes, say it. Although she agreed: in one ear and out the other. I actually remember a discussion with her 6 months ago where I tried to show her that what she said was very hurtful and cruel. I said you must only be saying this to:

1)  Make yourself feel better or

2)  Make me feel bad about myself

It took an hour of going round and round to finally get her to weakly apologize. They apologize for nothing because they never believe they're wrong... .ever.

Every "discussion" escalated to the point of near violence and I had the leave the room or house before the police showed up again. One police officer took me aside and said "haven't you had enough?" I said its hard to walk out on a 28 year relationship.

I'm now 6 weeks out. I feel like poop but its better than sleeping in the shed like I've done before, I'm ashamed to say.

Peace!

[BacknthSaddle]

I suppose the easiest way to think about it is as a very primitive defense against shame, a form of dissociation.  Reminding them of such things provokes shame, which redirects there thoughts toward their core shame, their belief that they are bad people, without value to the core.  The confrontation of such things is too painful, so they dissociate, go somewhere else, so they don't even have to look the issue in the face. 

In the past 4 months my ex called me a p**sy, a judgmental piece of s**t, told me I was so unattractive she didn't want to touch me, told me I was crazy, obsessive, had a "serious problem," that she was never serious about me, and on and on.  I finally went NC.  Two days ago she texts me and says "I miss my best friend."  Is it reasonable or normal for a person to think that someone to whom they've said such things would remain their best friend?  Someone who they once claimed to "love more than air?" Of course not.  But she has no insight into this at all.  She's blind to her contribution to the current state of affairs. And, were I to bring it up, she would either call me more names or go completely blank.  There is no winning, no satisfaction.  Accepting that it is out of your control and avoiding contact are the only solutions. 

Totally relate to this. Could be mine your referring to. Peace be with you.

I will say that's it's only after I realized how deep this behavior ran that I really started to acknowledge the BPD.  Or at least it was a major factor.  Before this: the name-calling, the shift from deep affection to contempt, I was able to write it all off as a "bad break-up" (although, I'd never had this type of break-up before).  But when she kept telling me she didn't want to talk anymore and then ended up sticking around, when she said "lose my number" and then got mad because I didn't text the next day, when she didn't understand why it was so hard to be "friends" and blamed it on me for being "obsessive... ." that's when I realized she was not right. 

[antjs]

We spoke a couple of weeks after the breakup and he said it was too painful to think about me, "So I don't think about you."  I believe it.  Wish I could stop thinking about him.

you now remind him of his punitive parent and thats why you are split black. its not your fault. do not enable him and give him the best gift of his life which is to stop contact with him. being totally abandoned might help him to face himself and seek therapy.

[Arminius]

The thing about wanting to stay friends and not understanding how we cannot do that! So bizarre... .She managed to get her last partner to accept friendzone, and that poor woman is walked all over... She still has a key to that girls home, her holiday home etc etc